Qantas to cancel 787

[woody744]

Rumour has it that Qantas are about to cancel their initial order for 787s (and this one didnt come from the Townsville refueller).

Anyone heard anything? Looks like the a350 is on the cards again..

[Watchdog]

Rumour is that Qantas is NOT going to cancel it's 787 order.

(Nice first post Woody) :}

[Wod]

Looks like the a350 is on the cards again..


I don't think the hub-buster SYD-LHR aircraft has ever gone away. Just that neither Boing nor Scarebus have yet been able to come up with a proposal that works.

Whichever manufacturer is currently in town is always the flavour of the rumour month, and I suspect someone has seen a shiny new model aircraft and leapt, quite naturally, to a conclusion. That's the way it used to work anyway.

[Capt Kremin]

The first A350 is not due till 2013 and beyond. Who is to say that it won't be delayed either.
If the 787 IS cancelled by QF (big if), it would need to be replaced by something available now. The B777 or more A330's would be the only aircraft that would fit the bill.

[Buster Hyman]

Does anyone else know of a good fishing spot? Other than Pprune of course?

[A Comfy Chair]

The CEO has made no secret of the fact that if the aviation environment doesn't improve then Qantas will cancel the order for the first 10 787's they have ordered.

I doubt they'd cancel the order for the rest though!

[Going Boeing]

If the early B787 aircraft are not required to be in service ASAP, then it would make sense to cancel the first 10 slots so that they take delivery of airframes that have benefited from a more mature production process i.e. the aircraft will be lighter and plumbing/electrical systems will be more standardised.

[Jabawocky]

And Jetstar miss out on them! :eek:

[Mr. Hat]

apparantely they're going to pay cash only for the 787:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

can't wait for this crisis to be over so all these crap threads die off

[apache]

I thought AJ was going to put them on his credit card, and collect a few FF points!

[Mikeb744]

Why wont QF order the B777!!!

Rumoured we were about to order 8 last year B773ER, then the down turn.

4 Engines 4 long haul has gone!

[barrybeebone]

I know the airline industry is in turbulence but remember that Jetstar is the big performer of the Qantas group at present. They may cancel some of their orders but with the likes of Air Asia and middle east airlines taking away market share on the europe route, why would they forgo 787's at a time when budget carriers are doing well and have the potential to claw back market share?

Also lets not forget Jetstar are in Singapore and Vietnam. Nothing to stop Qantas group from switching aircraft to these markets.

[blueloo]

Jetstar is the big performer of the Qantas group at present

Is it?


I thought QF were gifting routes to Jetstar as they pull out, hence Jetstars artificial increase in capacity and QFs decline in capacity.

Just a different form of balance sheet adjustment isnt it?

[barrybeebone]

Blueloo you are are correct, they are just gifting the routes to Jetstar. But I still don't think that Qantas group will give up the routes to Europe. If they can fly to Munich cheaper than a Qantas plane then they may as well do it now.

Also lets not forget one of the strategies of many airlines to cope with downturn is to open up new routes. Just look at VB, opening up new routes all the time (CBR-HOB, CBR-Townsville etc)

[VH-JJW]

Here we go again - the old JQ is gifted routes, subsidised, really just a sham etc. etc. blah blah blah...... :{

Some people need to get a life, or failing that a real day job.

If I were a QF person right now I would be more worried about QF's performance than JQ's HINT HINT. :=

[Jeps]

Why wont QF order the B777!!!

The chances of that may be increased now as the man who deemed the type to be "old technology" has just departed the red roo.

[DJ1989]

is this before or after Virgin Blue goes bankrupt? :ugh:

[Sqwark2000]

is this before or after Virgin Blue goes bankrupt?

Speaking of which, how are those cash handling fees going at VB's bank since they've had to pay up front for their fuel??

S2K

[aulglarse]

VH-JJW-don't forget while TT had just announced SYD-MEL, JQ will be 'gifted' that route too? I am getting tired of QF management offering JQ a pick of QF routes! :rolleyes:

What utter crap!:=

[Con Catenator]

I think the reality about SYD - MEL within the QF group, is that whoever can give the greatest yield will do the flying. In times like these, JQ probably has a nose in front.

[No1Dear]

Who could have guessed this thread would become a pissing contest between QF and JQ. The world has gone mad.

[VH-JJW]

JQ Sh^tyflyer here we come!
VH-JJW-don't forget while TT had just announced SYD-MEL, JQ will be 'gifted' that route too? I am getting tired of QF management offering JQ a pick of QF routes! :rolleyes:

What utter crap!:=

There is only one reason JQ would fly MEL - SYD. Qantas Group will protect its market share and if Qantas Airlines cannot do that profitably then they will look to alternatives.

Which would you rather glarse, QF lose money or hand market share to Tiger and Virgin?

If you don't like it then too bad, I suggest you start building a bridge :{

[Going Boeing]

First-Quarter 2009 Results to Reflect Impacts of Production Decisions and Lower Price Escalation

(Seattle, April 9, 2009) -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced that it will adjust its twin-aisle airplane production plans for 2010 due to significant deterioration in the business environment for airlines and cargo operators driven by unprecedented global economic conditions.

Monthly production of the 777 will decline from seven to five airplanes per month beginning in June 2010. Boeing will also delay previous plans to modestly increase 747-8 and 767 production. No change is being made at this time to the 737 production rate.

In addition, the weak global economy has contributed to significant declines in the escalation indices that affect forecasted pricing for commercial airplanes already ordered.

The production decisions and unfavorable price escalation are expected to reduce Boeing's first-quarter 2009 net earnings by approximately $0.38 per share. Because the 747 program is currently in a loss position, the reduced earnings associated with the factors above will be recorded for most units in the 747 backlog. That impact, somewhat offset by a refinement in cost estimates, accounts for approximately $0.31 per share of the first-quarter charge. For the other commercial programs, the impact will be reflected in lower margins on deliveries as they occur, including an estimated $0.07 per share net earnings reduction in the quarter.

The company will update its 2009 guidance when it reports first-quarter results on April 22.

"These are extremely difficult economic times for our customers," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Scott Carson. "It's necessary to adjust our production plans to align supply with these tough market conditions. We are in close contact with our customers as we continue to monitor this dynamic business environment."

The production rate decisions announced today solely reflect delivery deferrals requested by customers in response to unprecedented declines in global passenger and air-cargo volumes. No 767, 747 or 777 orders have been cancelled this year. Boeing's commercial backlog of more than 3,500 airplanes remains strong and well-diversified in terms of airplane models, geography and customer business models.

Source : Boeing

[grip-pipe]

Putting aside the lure of what QF may or may not do I am more interested in the fact that the Dreamliner is now several years behind schedule in terms of even getting the beastie into the air to see if it actually works. Seems the official word out of Seattle avoids the issue altogether. The order book is only holding because of the age of most operators fleets already, e.g. QF and they need any efficiencies they can get out of any airframe, not just a 787. The GFC has also put a spanner into the world of esoteric aircraft finance, AIG was the big mover and shaker here, so funding the build lines may yet cause some major problems.

Add to the mix - "Hmmm youre losing money on most routes, you've got a lot of pension liabilities there, how much tied up in the Freq Flyer scheme to be redeemed, the IMF are forecasting negative GDP for as far as the eye can see, and you want to borrow what for what when?"

Seems if your company has cash or a sovereign wealth fund behind it, it may do the deal but everyone else is looking decidedly uninteresting from an investment perspective.

[grip-pipe]

Bugger of a business aviation is it not? Seems mum may find out now that I am not a piano player in some honky tonk bar after all if this all keeps going.

[slamer.]

If QF ain't flyin the 787 they wont be competing..... you can figure the rest......... It'll be coming.

[Jabawocky]

Gripe Pipe.....I can assure you, that around the end of this month the first 787 flight will happen!:ok:

Now there is always a small chance of a delay, but lets just say I have good sources, and unless something stuffs up it will be on.

I will let you know when I know!

J

[blow.n.gasket]

Jabawoky, wasn't there a small 3 inch gap when they fitted the first rudder to the empanage? That might slow things up a wee bit.

[The Bullwinkle]

(and this one didnt come from the Townsville refueller)

If it had come from the Townsville refueller, then I would believe it! :ok:

[Jabawocky]

They have had their share of drama that is for sure, you may have read about fuel tank tests and also the leaks from the pressure tests on the fuse:uhoh: so once they get the Skia Flex all squirted in the right places it should be good! :8

I will have to see what else I can find out, but its got to be sourced carefully! :ooh:

[Jabawocky]

Ok.............. I assured you they were going to fly it... big mistake Jaba...:ugh:

They moved it to early June and then................

OOOOOPS!!!!


Well the July test flight is still planned, but after the weekends activities do not be surprised to find that slips a fair bit! :ooh:

Plane 1 went in for fuel cell tests (with H2O) and failed miserably and this is the second failure. That however is insignificant compared to a hydraulic line failure, also seemingly not a show stopper, except that the hydraulic failure has breached the hull of a "composite" airframe.

Now I do not have the the first hand info here but repairing any composite structure is hard work but impregnated with hydraulic oil would render a repair impossible. So I am not sure what happens next, time will tell as to how bad it is, but it can not be good!

Now No.2 is not out of the wars either, some bean head ran a scissor lift into the horizontal stab............. ya gotta think there is some plot to bring this program down...... a conspiracy perhaps! :suspect: So it now has a 12 inch or so square impact damage zone and may have to be replaced! :uhoh:

So don't hold your breath!:(

J

[ampclamp]

sounds like the 3 stooges are running the show over there if what your source tells is correct.
thanks for the updates.
Reckon qantas will make more money from penalty clauses for late delivery than flying them.:E

[Jabawocky]

Stories are true, the specific details are lacking so far, and how the rectification and other long term issues will be dealt with is unclear.

But hey.........nothing ventured, nothing gained. I do believe it will succeed, its just like most things, time and money!

[Short_Circuit]

I for one am happy that these hull damages happened in the shop before it was released to the flying public. It will be testimony to the repair capabilities of the plastic fantastic.

[blow.n.gasket]

Must be a sign of the times.
Superglue now, instead of highspeed tape and staples is it?:ok:

[slamer.]

Dreamliner moves to flight line for testing

The Boeing Co. (Seattle, Wash.) announced on May 3 that the 787 Dreamliner that will fly later this quarter has moved to the flight line.
Fuel testing — the first in the next phase of extensive checks the airplane must undergo — will begin in the next few days.
"We are making great progress, and moving ever-closer to first flight," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 Dreamliner program.
In recent weeks, the 787 (designated ZA001) completed a rigorous series of tests including build verification tests, structures and systems integration tests, landing gear swings and factory gauntlet, which is the full simulation of first flight using the actual airplane. With chief pilot Mike Carriker at the controls, the simulation tested all flight controls, hardware and software. The simulation also included manual and automatic landings and an extensive suite of subsequent ground tests.
"These results give us confidence in our ability to move into further gauntlet testing using either ground power or the airplane's engines or auxiliary power unit. This is a significant milestone on the path to first flight," Fancher said.
All structural tests required on the static airframe prior to first flight also are complete. The final test occurred April 21 when the wing and trailing edges were subjected to their limit load — the highest loads expected to be seen in service. The load is about the same as the airplane experiencing 2.5 times the force of gravity.
"We continue to analyze the data, but the initial results are positive," Fancher said. On April 13, the leading edge of the wing was subjected to its limit load while the rest of the airplane was subjected to loads expected at cruise. And in September 2008, the "high blow" high-pressure test was completed on the static airframe. During that test, the airframe reached an internal pressure of 150 percent of the maximum levels expected to be seen in service — 14.9 lb/sq inch (1.05 kg/sq cm) gauge (psig).
Ground vibration testing, which measures the airplane's response to flutter, also concluded on the second flight-test airplane, designated ZA002, at the end of this week. All the necessary structural tests required prior to first flight now are complete.
Now on the flight line, ZA001 will undergo additional airplane power and systems tests as well as engine runs. After completing final systems checks and high-speed taxi tests, the airplane will be ready for first flight, which is on schedule for later this quarter
Composites World

[Jabawocky]

slammer
The Boeing Co. (Seattle, Wash.) announced on May 3 that the 787 Dreamliner that will fly later this quarter has moved to the flight line.
Fuel testing — the first in the next phase of extensive checks the airplane must undergo — will begin in the next few days.

That was before the weekend......and those fuel tests.....well the H2O test went :eek:

Will do some more digging............

[Jabawocky]

Something is cooking in Everett :ooh:

The Flight Line Web Cam which is very powerful is offline until approx May 25th due to security reasons.

Maybe the security risk will cease to exist in early June ;)

One wonders what they could be trying to keep under wraps :suspect: Emergency repairs perhaps, major rework............:E

Can't wait to see her fly though.

J

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Looks like things are indeed moving on the B787 front.

Must have been a very minor leak (if any) to have them firing up the old Rollers so soon.

Let it rip...

ATW Daily News (http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=16633)

[Jabawocky]

It happened.........like all things, it just takes time and money!

[GE90115BL2]

check out this fellas website for pikkies of the flight line updated every day or 2 www.paineairport.com (http://www.paineairport.com)


Go to his Paine Field Blog on the right to get all the latest pikkies.

What is the link to the webcam?

[Jabawocky]

OK.....news just to hand. The hydraulic problem was due to some dill not connecting the hydraulic cylinder ends to a control surface in the tail (rudder/trim/elevator... one of them) and some hydraulic tests were started, this punched a hole into a part of the plane in the tail area. So fortunately not as nasty to repair as first thought.

Flight is scheduled for Monday the 1st of June at 10am...........and no doubt subject to change;).

So there you have it!

I am sure tehre will be much fanfare!

J:ok:

[Jabawocky]

Fuel went in.........and I gather stayed there!

Folk on the line are tighter lipped than the proverbial fishes........:ooh:

Could my June 1 actually come true?

J:ok:

[slamer.]

Boeing 787 On Track To Fly In June - CEO

Boeing's delayed 787 Dreamliner is on track for its first test flight next month, Boeing CEO Jim McNerney said Wednesday.
"I think the airplane will fly in June. We will embark on a flight test program as we described it," McNerney said.
The company pushed back the 787 delivery schedule for a fourth time in December, making its plane almost two years late and risking cancellations from angry airlines. The plane has been plagued by repeated production delays.
McNerney said demand for the 787 is strong despite what he called "market churn." McNerney was referring to order cancellations this year, including 57 canceled 787 orders.
Boeing and rival Airbus are suffering as airlines and cargo operators defer plane deliveries amid weak demand in the economic recession.
After 60 orders and 60 cancellations, Boeing now has zero net orders for 2009.
McNerney said he expects the the first 787 deliveries in the first quarter of 2010. But he said there is always the chance that the schedule could be disrupted by a mechanical issue coming to light during the test flight.

[tjc]

Boeing Has Another Full Week Of 787 Tests

Friday, June 19, 2009
AviationWeek.com (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/)
Boeing is planning another week of 787 tests as ZA001 counts down to first flight, expected June 28.
Counting down Boeing’s long task lists leads to June 28 being a likely target for the first flight of ZA001, the first flight test article in the 787 program.
Boeing will run through a series of six major ground tests from Friday through Sunday, June 21. They are broken into blocks of three. The first covers cover primary flight control system “axis” testing, which is to finish Saturday. The other focuses on functionality check out tests of the flight control management system and should wrap up by Sunday afternoon.
The six tests were originally set to be completed by Saturday evening, a clear indication of how volatile the schedule is as Boeing pushes to get ZA001 into the air by the end of June.
VP Pat Shanahan, the general manager of Boeing’s commercial airplane programs, is set to hold a flight readiness review in Everett, Wash., on Saturday.
With that review done and the last of the ground test blocks completed, the airplane will enter the last major phase of its testing — final gauntlet.
That 48-hour procedure will push ZA001 through a continuous series of final system checkouts using a software load developed to address minor issues that arose during the first two test phases — factory and intermediate gauntlet.
It is expected to get under way June 22 and most likely will be followed by a two-day analysis session.
When flight managers are satisfied with that analysis, ZA001 will be ready to roll under the power of its Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engines for the first time. It does so in low- and high-speed taxi tests. The first are cautious approaches to the fact that the nearly 400,000 lb. aircraft is moving under its own power.
The second will bring it to Vr — rotation speed — in which the nose wheel lifts off the runway slightly but the main landing gears stay put. Those tests, all conducted at Paine Field near the Everett factory, should only take one day.
Most likely Boeing will then take a full day for final preparation work before proceeding to the first flight. Following this tentative schedule, that will put first flight on Sunday, June 28. But, as with so much in the program, the schedule could slip.
The first flight is slated for 5.5 hours, but indications are it could go longer. The airplane will land at Boeing Field in Seattle, from which the full flight test program will be conducted.

[tjc]

Understanding the 787 structural reinforcement

By Jon Ostrower (http://flightglobal.com/flightblogger)on June 24, 2009 5:59 PM on FlightBlogger

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/assets_c/2009/06/stringcaps_diagram-thumb-560x286-39370.jpg (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/assets_c/2009/06/stringcaps_diagram-39370.html)

Boeing yesterday announced (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/06/breaking-boeing-postpones-787.html) it was postponing first flight of the 787 citing the need to reinforce structure where the wing box meets the center wing box at the side of body of the aircraft. FlightBlogger takes a closer look at exactly what the problem is and how Boeing came to yesterday's announcement.

Because of the need to go back into the detailed design phase for this fix, combined with the need to fabricate, install and test at component and at full scale levels, several sources with a direct familiarity to the situation estimate that the fix will take "months not weeks."

INSIDE:

What is the problem?
(Historical Precedent.....)
(Timeline.....)
(The Fix.....)WHAT EXACTLY IS THE PROBLEM?
The issue centers around the wing-to-body join that mates the wing box (Mitsubishi/Section 12) and the center wing box (Fuji/Section 45/11). The center wing box is the combination of two pieces, the center wing tank (Section 11) and main landing gear wheel well (Section 45). The area of concern centers on the 18 points where Sections 11 and 12 meet.

Digging deeper, the 18 points in question on each side of the airplane (36 total) are located on the top panel of the center wing box and run port to starboard inside the structure of the center tank through to the other wing. These 18 'stringers' inside the center wing box are matched by 17 stringers on the wing box, which serve to stiffen the wing skin. The wing box has 17 stringers, but a source indicates they are designated 2-18, hence the reference to the 18 points that need to be reinforced.

The composite stringers, which give the wings its longitudinal stiffness, are cured during production when cooked in the autoclave and joined as a single bonded piece with the wingskins.

On the inboard side of the wing box where the 17 stringers end and connect to the center wing box, each has what is known as a 'stringer cap' that widens at the end and actually makes the hard connection between Section 11 and Section 12 on the side of body. The stringer caps on ZY997 sustained damage, albeit repairable, when the wings were flexed on April 21.

Boeing confirms that the stringer cap separated or "disbonded" from the wing skin. Sources directly familiar with the situation say the shifting tension load from the stringer to fastener head also caused damage on the structure.

[zube]

This is not going to be fixed anytime soon. Just have a look at Boeing shares on the Dow Jones as the problem becomes clear to investors.

Despite Qantas upbeat public statements they have a lot to consider.

Watch this space.......

[Wingspar]

They need to get some of the Boeing lads from the ol' days. Give 'em a good kick up the a**e and show 'em how to build an aeroplane!

[Buster Hyman]

They should've stuck with the Sonic Cruiser....

:E

[Bootstrap1]

Well said Buster

Sonic Cruiser all the way

[another superlame]

Well 15 cancelled is a good start. Why not erase all of dixons legacy by cancelling the whole 787 order and replace them with that old technology in the 777.

[PBN]

6 . Dreamliner: great until the wings peeled off

Ben Sandilands (http://redirect.cmailer.com.au/LinkRedirector.aspx?clid=20d5de08-a5f7-421b-bf4e-24f5dd41c5f7&rid=b342571a-5254-4f94-ac8f-0af71aa71f83) writes:
The enormity of the problems with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner are only just starting to sink in.Overnight in America Boeing described as "minor" some issues on the "side" of the airliner, which had caused it to defer its imminent first flight.Boeing totally blind sided the reporters taking part in a conference call, although Wall Street wasn’t so easy to fool, slashing up to 9% off its stock priceThe truth is that the tiny, really minor, easily patched issues that Boeing revealed had emerged on the side of the "plastic fantastic" were in fact on the section of the wing where it joins the fuselage, which started to break apart at 18 small spots when put under stress in April.Wings are not supposed to fail until they reach 150% of maximum design load. The wings on the full sized static test 787 which is part of the sub fleet to be used in flight testing and certification procedures are confirmed by Boeing as having started to "delaminate". This means that the layers of reinforced carbon fibre glued together with resins and baked in a giant oven that replace aluminium in the 787 were breaking open. In flight such a rupture would precede the destruction of the jet by seconds at most. Yet in Paris last week Boeing declared its complete confidence that the flight test 787 would fly by 30 June leading to deliveries to customers from next March. Those were outrageous claims, as much as the supposedly nearly flight ready prototype rolled out in July 2007 that turned out to be a near empty shell held together in part with hardware store bolts and which was towed around in front of invited guests with one of its doors actually made out of plywood. Last night in the US, Boeing portrayed the decision to delay the first flight of the 787 as being one which would enable productive flight testing, rather than adhering to the schedule using internal reinforcing patches.It is difficult to imagine any test pilot taking off in a jet with internal patches holding together a wing in areas where the static model had started to break apart far, far below certification standards.Official guidance in Qantas is that a full review of the 787 order is underway. The only new design remotely similar to the 787 in proposed size and range is the slightly larger Airbus A350 family. It is also a high composite design, but significantly different in the manner in which it is constructed. A quick order by Qantas for A350s is not a certainty. The jet won’t be ready until 2013, and perhaps not Qantas-ready in terms of an optimal version of the jet for some years after that. Nor will there necessarily be a long queue of customers trying to buy it. If anything, there will be fewer airlines left flying after the GFC passes, and there is a view in some quarters in Qantas that it can sit on its cash, and wait until it sees if Boeing can come up with a totally revised 787 or if Airbus keeps to its promises in regard to the A350.

[pigdriver]

Just heard from a Qantas Mate, The Qantas group has cancelled the first 15 787's, and delayed the others for 4 years. Interesting times ahead for the plastic fantastic and QF/J*.......

[LetsGoRated]

Qantas Airways Limited ABN 16 009 661 901
Further information and media releases can be found at the Qantas website: qantas.com

QANTAS ANNOUNCES CHANGES TO B787 ORDERS

SYDNEY, 26 June 2009: Qantas announced today it had reached mutual agreement with Boeing to
defer the delivery of 15 B787-8 aircraft by four years and cancel orders for 15 B787-9s scheduled for
delivery in 2014/2015.

Qantas Chief Executive Officer, Mr Alan Joyce, said the changes to the Group’s B787 orders were
appropriate in the current climate, and that discussions with Boeing, which commenced some months
ago, had not been influenced by the announcement this week of a design issue and further delay to
the aircraft’s first flight.

“Qantas announced its original B787 order in December 2005, and the operating environment for the
world’s airlines has clearly changed dramatically since then,” Mr Joyce said.

“The agreement we have reached with Boeing will provide greater certainty going forward in terms of
our fleet renewal and growth strategies as well as broader resource planning and matching capacity
with demand.

“It will also allow Qantas to manage capital investment more effectively while still delivering an aircraft
that offers sound prospects for our flying businesses and our customers.

“For both Qantas and Jetstar, the B787 will provide for international capacity growth and new routes,
including point-to-point destinations, and mean lower operating and maintenance costs, greater fuel
efficiency and improved environmental performance.

“The latest delay is disappointing, but we do not expect it to impact the Qantas Group given these
changes to our delivery program. We remain committed to the aircraft as the right choice – for
Jetstar’s future international expansion, Qantas’ growth and as a replacement for Qantas’ B767-300
fleet.”

After the order changes, the Qantas Group will jointly remain the biggest airline customer for B787
family aircraft.

The changes will see*:
Qantas Group firm orders reduce from 65 to 50 aircraft, comprising 35 B787-9s and 15 B787-8s;
the Group’s first 15 aircraft – B787-9s for Jetstar’s international operations – delivered from mid-
2013, around three years later than planned. Jetstar was to take delivery of 15 smaller B787-8s in
mid-2010;
15 B787-8s follow over the 12 months from the fourth quarter of 2014 for Qantas’ Australian
domestic operations and to retire the remaining Qantas B767-300 fleet;
remaining deliveries, of 20 B787-9s for both Qantas and Jetstar international operations, take
place from the fourth quarter of 2015 through to 2017; and
Qantas retain the ability to purchase up to 50 additional aircraft.

Mr Joyce said the cancellation of 15 B787-9s would reduce the Group’s aircraft capital expenditure
by US$3 billion based on current list prices.

“Delaying delivery, and reducing overall B787 capacity, is prudent, while still enabling Qantas and
Jetstar to take advantage of growth opportunities and market demands, both domestically and
internationally,” he said.

Details of the contractual agreement with Boeing remain confidential, but the settlement is materially
in line with that previously recognised.


* delivery timeframes are based on current Boeing planning guidance and may be subject to change.































Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (Q3936)
Media Enquiries: Simon Rushton T: +61 2 9691 3742

[Going Boeing]

The original plans were for Jetstar to temporarily fly the 15 B787-8's until they took delivery of their permanent aircraft (15 B787-9's). With this announcement, Jetstar will now only take delivery of their permanent aircraft with the B787-8's to go directly to QF Mainline domestic at a much later date. As there appear to be no more A332's on order for Mainline domestic operations, the only way to maintain services is to keep the B767's in service longer than originally planned.

With delivery of the B787 to Jetstar to begin mid-2013, then some of the JQ domestically configured A332's would be available to return to mainline domestic and thus allow some of the older B767's to be retired.

[LetsGoRated]

GB said

With this announcement, Jetstar will now only take delivery of their permanent aircraft with the B787-8's to go directly to QF Mainline domestic

Qantas said

remaining deliveries, of 20 B787-9s for both Qantas and Jetstar international operations, take
place from the fourth quarter of 2015 through to 2017

A lot will go on between now and then.

[Going Boeing]

A380-800 Driver. I would hazard a guess that the pilots whose career progression has been adversely affected by both the A380 and B787 delays, aren't laughing.

LGR. I was referring to the early deliveries only. I agree that there will be a lot of divisive tactics employed by management as to the disposition of the later aircraft deliveries.

[woody744]

:ok: You heard it here first

[DickyPearse]

Well done Woody. Now....where is WatchDog when you need him?

[The Green Goblin]

Now lets wait for the 777 announcement :)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d111/mCGHEE09/Qantas3-1.jpg

[Transition Layer]

BA have some freshly painted Triplers sitting on the flight line in Seattle.

Could we sling the poms some cash, put a Roo on the tail and take them off their hands? I'm sure they could do with the money.

[Eastwest Loco]

This is the spin from the Industry site Travel Mole.

Usually non sensationalist and with good insight.

Qantas delivers fresh blow to Boeing-26 June, 2009 (http://www.travelmole.com/stories/1137065.php?mpnlog=1&m_id=_rm_r_rbb)

If the hypelink doesn't come up, just cut and paste into your addy line.

Best regards

EWL

[Going Boeing]

Although I'd love to see the Trippler in QF colours, I interpret the decision to cancel 15 B787's as meeting a requirement to conserve cash at a time when no more capacity is required. I think that the existing fleet is all they need for the near future.

[emu787]

All over the news now about the cancelled 15 787's for QF.....maybe they are having a rethink about the new 777. Boeing reported last week it was to decide soon on either a stretched version of the 787 or re-wing the 777 to counter the A350. I think the Big B knows they are going to have further serious development problems with the 787 project. Nice pic green goblin.

[The Green Goblin]

Well if you think about it they have 30 odd 747's and 30 odd 767's. They are replacing these with 50 787's of which they will be deployed between both airlines and 20 A380's. There is a large gap between a 787 and an A380 and them 747's are getting old!

[Wod]

Reading wine glass sediment after two glasses of inferior SSB.

It may be that the cancelled 15 were replacements for some 747 and 763 which can now be let go without replacement because expansion has become contraction.

Mid 2013 for 787 suggests no significant cash flow until 2012/2013, which sits right with a 2009/2010 which will be breakeven and no dividend at best, and two further years repairing the balance sheet.

So I doubt you'll see the tripler as a replacement for late 787s. The tripler has, in my opinion, always been about the "hub-buster" ultra long range aircraft which is the Airbus A350 or 777 tweak, or even 787-10.

From my point of view there is no pleasure to be taken from problems that both manufacturers have had in recent years. I'm a fan of both, and as an airline person I like new aircraft to come in on time and over performance.

[Best Rate]

Triplers??? U guys are still dreamin' bout that old chestnut eh?? :rolleyes: