Active Indian Pilots: What was your flight plan?

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

I trawled Pprune for quite long for a similar topic, but didn't find any. So here goes. The reason this thread is South East Asia section is because I'm looking for India specific information. But if the moderators feel it is in the wrong place, I apologise for the extra workload. You guys do a good job. Alright coming to the point.

There are a lot of wannabe pilots out there and more so in India. Not all are attracted by the money (which I'm lead to believe isn't that big an attraction anymore) but there are loads of others who are really passionate about the profession.

I'm a wannabe myself and have always been fanatic about flying for as long as I can remember. I'm 25 years old, a bit late to start, but finally have got it all together to take the plunge.

I've done my research, I know there are barely any jobs out there. But I also know that an airline is not the only place to fly. I'm investing in an instructor's rating too and going the modular way to avoid loans. I have a perfectly good job which I will probably end up keeping while I fly. But the ultimate goal is to fly day in and day out. And with your help and if everything goes well, I'll be able to guide many more wannabes into this fantastic way of living in the future.

I've started this thread so that active pilots in India can help some hopefuls about how to go about their training. It would be very helpful if those who are currently flying tell us how they did it? Where did they train? What should be the right approach? What hardships did you face? Are Indian institutes no good, I'm not too bothered about time taken as long as the end result is good. I don't qualify for IGRUA. So it has to be one of the private institutes. If anybody can reccommend a good one, I'd be highly grateful. If you can't I'd be grateful for any other advice.

So will anyone oblige for this wannabe and a lot others? Thanks in advance for your comments.


MKS

[Spitfireace]

I am based in London but originally from Bombay. Just completed my PPL in the UK and now very keen on setting up a GA related business in India. There are about 26 Flying schools in India but apparently none of them are operational, from what I hear. I feel that the GA potential in India is vast and untapped. the target audience is typically people like you who want to hobby fly and have the resources available but don't know where to go.

i am not going to kid myself by thinking it is going to be easy but sure I can generate enough momentum for investors to sit up and take notice. Unfortunately, the flying bug has bitten me and I cannot go back to the normal world anymore.

In so far as flying training in India is concerned, I wouldn't touch any of schools with a very, very long barge pole. My cousin has been doing a lot of research on training schools in India and the outlook is dismal.

Let me know what your long term objectives are and I can possibly help.

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

Thanks for the inputs Spitfireace. Appreciated. Yes the outlook is dismal as far as flying schools go. But I can't afford flying training abroad and that way I won't be able to keep my current job. I'm looking at Yash Air with a magnifying glass for the past few months. Does your cousin have any idea about them?

EDIT:
Long term objective is to fly for a living. I think I can keep my job while I train. After which I have the instructor rating to bank upon.

MKS

[Spitfireace]

Will ask him about Yash air and let you know. Have you done your Medical yet BTW? NOt trying to put you off but that is the first and BIGGEST hurdle you will need to overcome. Once you have passed your CPL initial issue it's quite easy.

Don't knock flying training in the US or OZ as the all told cost in India can work out to quite a bit in the end due to non-availability of instructors/aircraft etc. The nearest school to Bombay is Carver Aviation in Baramati and their costs seems quite reasonable but unsure about their ability to provide training on a sustained basis.

From your standpoint, do you see a potential for flying schools targeted towards recreational flyers?

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

I'm going for my medicals soon. But I believe I should have no problems. I know it is the biggest hurdle, but I should get through.

I've not heard good things about Carver. They've been in the news lately for the wrong reasons.

From what I can see in India, recreation flying is for the rich and famous and the ones who have money go out of the country and do it. But the number isn't great. But I do feel any kind of affordable flying does have a lot of scope.

MKS

[Spitfireace]

Good luck with the medical. Will get some gen on Yash Air and let you know although their web site seems quite impressive.

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

Yeah but inquisitive me wasn't satisfied. I went to the training base to check and find out. Aircrafts are there and so are the trainers. But what I want to know if they live up to the promises they make. Thanks for all the help Spitfireace.

MKS

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

*bump*

Is there anybody else who can help?

MKS

[ninja_turtle]

The best people that you should be asking for advice are the people who are currently flying at any school at that given time .

Chances are that if they are happy then you too mite be .

Just dont base your decision on any particular persons or two people's view cause they might have got used to the bad conditions and might think its ok enough or then there might be the few who we call ' Champcha's ' if you know what I mean .

Go to the places , talk to the guys . Nothing much here . Face to face is real ..

Good luck ..

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

Thanks for the insight ninja turtle. But its not only about Yash Air. I hear you on the so called 'chamchas'. What I'd like to know is how a pilot who is currently flying in our country do it? Which school did he take up? May be emulating him would have more chances of success.

MKS

[captaan]

since boom started many pim+++ps are on the street looking to make quick buck.
take care of your hard earned money+ job in hand.

steps to go forward as below
1. do class 1 medical.
2. pass PPL papers +R/T
3.prepare and STUDY all CPL Exam sylabus.
4. do 60 hrs+ in india if you can. it will save lot of money and time.
(since you have 60+ hrs and studied CPL save on instructor cost and time
just pick the a/c and get airborne & will understand commercial flying better while completing CPL hrs )
5. go abroad to do rest flying hours requirment.
6. return and finish CPL Exams.

believe me NO SHORTCUT to hard work.

when you go abroad for Flying check with DGCA list of recognised flying schools.
from time to time DGCA blacklists some schools.

no need for chamchas/pim++ps etc



good luck

[flankerpilot]

where is this "DGCA list of recognised flying schools" ?

[Schumi - Red Baron]

where is this "DGCA list of recognised flying schools" ?

LIST OF FLYING CLUBS/SCHOOLS/INSTITUTES (http://dgca.nic.in/licencing/fly-ind.htm)


LIST OF FLYING CLUBS/SCHOOLS/INSTITUTES ETC. COVERED UNDER SUBSIDY SCHEME (http://dgca.nic.in/flyclub/flyclub.htm)


Hope this helps...:ok:

[flankerpilot]

@ Schumi thx , but I know that list.

I was referring to this statement from Captaan

when you go abroad for Flying check with DGCA list of recognised flying schools.
from time to time DGCA blacklists some schools.

Where is this list for approved schools abroad ?

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

Captaan saab very nice of you. Thanks. You say that I should do majority of the flying abroad. Any particular reason? What are the cons of doing it from here? Apart from the additional time that it might take me here, is there something else wrong about flying in India itself?

You see if I fly abroad, I can't keep my job which will partly pay for the training. It would be nice if I don't have too much debt on my head.

MKS

[Schumi - Red Baron]

@flankerpilot

I don't think that theres anything like recognised DGCA flying school abroad... It is the local civil aviation regulator who certifies the flying school in it's area (Like in Australia they are certified by CASA, UK by CAA)

I cannot say about DGCA but the airlines in India do have the flying school's blacklisted in their books...

It might be that captaan was referring to that list... If not then it would be really nice of captaan to give the list...:ok:

[GoodGrief]

Aviation in India is a nightmare, GA even more so.

Commercial training aside, who in their right mind would want to fly for fun in India?

There is no fun.

Just imagine taking your family for a spin. You have to file a passenger manifest and issue a boarding pass to your wife and kids.:ugh:

Patel is missing out on a billion dollar business:ugh:

[ninja_turtle]

MKS

Emulating him will not have more chance of success .. Rather I would say it is a receipe for disaster ..

What he / she did will not apply today ..

Requirements change , demand and supply changes , conditions change .. in short everything changes ..

Think about the most challenging outcomes that you could be faced with and work out how you will survive it ..

If you can work that out , then , only something better than your expectations can happen to you ..

And while you do all that .. Be conservative ..

Thats the only sensible approach you can take .. If this approach doesnt give you a positive plan , then you need to work on things which will allow you to take this approach , before working on the plan itself ..

Hope this makes sense .. Good Luck

[saperaa]

I don't think that theres anything like recognised DGCA flying school abroad... It is the local civil aviation regulator who certifies the flying school in it's area (Like in Australia they are certified by CASA, UK by CAA)



your list is incomplete , you forgot to add JAPAN CIVIL AVIATION.
do not delist other countries.

[captaan]

[QUOTE]@ Schumi thx , but I know that list.

I was referring to this statement from Captaan


Quote:
when you go abroad for Flying check with DGCA list of recognised flying schools.
from time to time DGCA blacklists some schools.

Where is this list for approved schools abroad ?[/QUOTEcus]

i think DGCA Is short on staff to look in to others yard.

recognised schools list is on DGCA website.

[Aceninja]

What is the hiring market in India like nowadays? I am guessing gone are the days when you could have 250hours and jump in the right seat of an A320? What does it take to get a job for the airlines, if you are just starting out? Can you build hours flight instructing?

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

Unfortunately Sir, that is the biggest life threatening risk that you WOULD HAVE TO take in civil Aviaiton in India.

Best Case : You might be flying ATRs after a few months of gettting an Indian CPL.
Worst case .. you'll be 30 lakhs poorer.

You can not ... I repeat CAN NOT take any "SAFE" way out of this mess.

Civil Aviation and Pilot Training in India is NOT like the way it is in the US or Canada or other countries ...

Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread ... almost 10,000 aspirants from India have set out (fools) to get a CPL from US, Canada, Australia etc ...
Only a few Angels with the knowledge, money, and more importantly with the right guidance and the "connections" have somehow been able to make it ...


Thanks agent for responding. Could I pick your brains on some portions of your reply? From your post, I understand that Indian training is not up to the mark when compared to US and the likes. Is it with regards to aircraft safety or just plain quality? Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

I don't have any connections, is it completely impossible to get in credibly? Guidance is what I'm here for and replies have been very informative till now. Thanks a ton for all your comments guys.

I'm keen to do the Indian CPL, because I think it is too much of a hassle to convert licenses with the DGCA. Above all like I mentioned earlier, I can't afford to go out since my job is here and I don't want to quit it.



Emulating him will not have more chance of success .. Rather I would say it is a receipe for disaster ..

What he / she did will not apply today ..

Requirements change , demand and supply changes , conditions change .. in short everything changes ..

Think about the most challenging outcomes that you could be faced with and work out how you will survive it ..

If you can work that out , then , only something better than your expectations can happen to you ..

And while you do all that .. Be conservative ..

Thats the only sensible approach you can take .. If this approach doesnt give you a positive plan , then you need to work on things which will allow you to take this approach , before working on the plan itself ..

Hope this makes sense .. Good Luck

Thanks ninja_turtle for the inputs. They are most valued. I understand that the market is changing at a very fast pace and things will be different for those who train now and those who trained maybe a few years ago.

What I'm finding the most difficult is to find a good school and till now only Yash Air seems to be promising. I visited their facilities and was impressed, but unfortunately I went at a time when the students were not present, so I couldn't get a first hand account.

I believe not quiting my current job while I train is a sensible approach. Because even if I don't have a job after the CPL, I can still sustain myself on my current job. I don't have a family to look after which is an advantage as far as I can see.

I don't expect to land a job soon after the CPL, I expect to wait months if not years, but all this while I will have an instructor's rating so I can quietly build time. Even if I don't get an instructor's job, I always have my current job. I will keep my ratings and licenses current till I get that first job.

Please do comment if there's something wrong in my approach. And thanks once again for all the brilliant information.

MKS

[Schumi - Red Baron]

Is it with regards to aircraft safety or just plain quality?


It's a combination of both really... Yes, quality is the biggest problem and that's due to the lack of infrastructure and good flight instructors... Ask current ground instructor's in India and they will tell you the truth about the knowledge and the caliber of the Indian trained pilots (bar IGRUA)...

Another problem with Indian schools is that they are renowned for over logging of hours and hence you will find that some airlines have blacklisted some training schools here...

And you will find most of the existing pilots (who currently have a job) being from Air force or have done their training abroad or IGRUA in India...

I don't have any first hane experience about them but i am made to believe that AAA in Ahmedabad is good and much better than Yash airways...

[red gaint]

Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread

thats a great quote, suit majority of pilot wannbes in india, who enter blind folded gazing only the green pastures, without noticing the pit falls on the path :8 :E :8 :E

Ah! wait a sec, where do I fall :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[ninja_turtle]

MKS

Lets say you are located at place X .

And the flying school is at place Y or place Z within India .

How would you retain your job at place X if you had to physically move to place Y or Z ?

We dont know what your job profile is , but if you could move out of X and go to Y or Z in India , then you could also go to place A , B or C located out of India .

May be you might talk about juggling between the two places now ..

Two points thereafter ..

A . Schools in India expect you to go to the school each day and wait with a baby face till your turn to fly comes up . You keep telling them that you want to go back to X for sometime and come back , they will not take you seriously and will make you wait even more for your turn , its like moving out of a que only to rejoin at the end ..

Secondly your employer at X in wondering why you are not on your job most of the time and then the problems that will follow .

B . There are two ways about going for a thing .

Take for example an airline pilot studying for his ATPL while going to work too .

1.Everyone who has tried to do it knows how difficult is is to do that . You have to keep a lower target , may be like one subject , you have to start much earlier and you need to retain for longer .

2.There are people who take leave 10 days prior to exam , switch thier phone's off and go all out . When the exam is done they get back to what they were doing . Here one can go all out , concenterate , retain much better .. The departure from what they do on a day to day basis was for a nominal period and they are back to thier lives with positive results hopefully .

To each his own .

Point is , my suggestion to you is , get rid of all the crap that takes time in India , like your medical , your papers etc etc . Only thing that should be required should be the hours . Untill this point your investments will be low and you could be juggling between X and Y without a shade of doubt . Once you are there , apply for a leave , go abroad , get your hours within weeks ( Yes it is possible ) and come back to work at X .

Apply for your conversion ( money talks bull**** walks ) and believe me its not too tough to do it yourself too .

Start struggling for a job .

Once you have it , bid goodbye to people at X while they keep wondering when you did all this ..

Good Luck ..

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

Valid points there ninja_turtle. But I'm at an advantage. I only need to go back to Bombay once a month and that too can be done on the weekends. And most of my work can be done online. I road test cars and write about them in one of the leading automobile magazines in India. Since ours is a monthly publication, I don't have to be at the office all the time. Another thing is that my employer knows about this and has been kind enough to let me pursue this career while I work for them.

So like I said, if I go abroad, I won't be at the liberty of returning to Bombay once a month.

MKS

[captaan]

MKS
Your flight plan is simple.
Find nearest operational flying training center, preferably where you like to join as flying instructor on completion of CPL and further training to be an instructor.
Follow the guide lines I wrote earlier.
Once you are in the pipeline you will learn quickly about rest of questions and doubts,
If you still have any.
Good luck
There is nothing like good time or bad time.
It’s the right time.

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

Captaan sahab very encouraging reply. Thank you. The process is on and I will keep updating this thread regularly so everyone can know how it is to be done and what has to be avoided. Hopefully my experience will help many others.

MKS

[thornycactus]

when you go abroad for Flying check with DGCA list of recognised flying schools.
from time to time DGCA blacklists some schools.
How sure are you? :suspect:

Can somebody share with the members here, where can we check the list of blacklisted school? Kindly do not tell me to search in DGCA website, no such information available. :=

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

After slightly more than a year, I'm back. As promised here's a bit of an update.

Going has been tough and extremely slow. DGCA has been difficult especially with regards to my medical. It's been almost 10 months of multiple visits to the DGCA and my doctor just to get my class II assessment. The DGCA has seen a change of staff who are thankfully much better. The assessment is required to be able to apply for the FRTOL license. Hence, my hours have been limited to just 15.30. So, no solo yet. I'm ready, but my papers are not.

Just a few days ago, I managed to find out that my class II papers never reached the DGCA office in Delhi. Although I have a strong feeling that it was lost somewhere. So I'll have to send the papers again and wait another month for the assessment. My class II expires in July, so I'll probably be renewing the class II before I send the papers just to be on the safe side. And yes, I have done the mock Class I tests, so I know I should be able to clear the real Class I later. Just one thing that could be a problem would be my deviated nasal spectrum, which may require a minor surgery to fix.

The road ahead? Renew the Class II and send for the file number. Get the file number and apply immediately for the FRTOL. But more importantly, mail the papers for the computer number so I can attempt at least Regulations and Meteorology papers. All this should happen by next month. It's been a bit difficult balancing the flying with the day job, so delays are quite normal and expected.

Also I might be changing my flight school as I'm not too happy with the current one. I wouldn't want to name them. But if everything works out, I should be out of there and to a better place.

I will keep updating from time to time. If nothing else, my experience might help future student pilots to make more informed decisions. Until next time.

MKS out.

[rents]

Interesting conversations here.

@MKS Greetings.Hoping you are still around. I'm planning to take a PPL in India and then go abroad for hour building. Wondering how far have you come along ?

[pilotbaba]

Hello Mike KILO SEIRRA

After more than a year, we would all like to know how you are doing

Pls post, if convenient

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

After more than a year...here's what's happened.

Earlier in 2011, finally got my computer number after a full year of sending out multiple applications. Started appearing for exams. Have appeared in 3 sessions attempting Regulations & Meteorology (2 times), Technical General (1 time), Technical Specific C172R (1 time).

Unfortunately, haven't cleared any. Stuck at 66, 68 marks. Very very frustrating. Will be giving the July session attempting Reg, Met and Specific. There's only so much studying you can do while you're working.

Other things that happened, I've changed my flight school. But haven't done any flying. Still at 20hrs. I think its better to clear papers before pumping in the hard earned money. Applied for SIA cadet, got called for the first interview. It went well, messed up a very simple math question. Got rejected. So back with the DGCA.

Nothing else to report as such. A sidenote, this field needs money and a lot of it. It isn't worth spending your parent's money especially with no guarantee of a job. My parents can't afford it anyway. My current job funds the flying ambitions. Still don't have nearly enough money, but then till the papers are cleared, I don't need to spend. It'll be another year till I have enough to fund all the flying hours required. With age (27) not being on my side, I am in a bit of a soup. But there's nothing else I ever wanted to do.

Till next time.

MKS

[pilotbaba]

@mike kilo seirra

Well there is some progress, if not a whole lot......

As for techincal, there has been a mention of a IGRUA question bank, here in the forums..... I have been trying to find it, so If U can find it, more power to you.

As far as the DGCA exam, there is a saying, to pass the PVT, study commercial level, to pass commercial, study ATP level....

As for medical, I'd strongly recommend doing your 1st Class medical at AFCME, that way if GOD forbid there is anything adverse, you will know now.... once U clear the CME medical, it is easy to keep it updated....

Keep in touch if U need any advise, whatever I can do, I always try to help.

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

Thanks for the advice pilotbaba. I will take it up. :)

MKS

[AmateurAviatorAlways]

@MKS
it would be nice of yu if yu let us know the math question!
thnx :)

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

@MKS
it would be nice of yu if yu let us know the math question!
thnx

It was a very simple average speed question. I just crumbled under the pressure.

MKS

[jatt_pilot]

u might want to look at the indigo cadet pilot program. i think that is the way to go as of now, its well structured and should be 1 of the best available in India.

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

Back after lull period. But with some good news. After hitting and missing in Meteorology, Regulations and Specific, I've managed to clear them some months ago. It just takes a dedicated effort, it really isn't that difficult.

Now there's Navigation which I've given the second time. Last time I got stuck with 66%. But learnt a lot about the kind of questions asked. Have given it again this time and am awaiting the results. Will also attempt Technical and the infamous RT exam this time around.

On the financial side of things, I've managed to save enough money to complete my flight training without having to go to mom and dad or to the dreaded banks. So I don't have to be in my current job. Which let's face it has provided me with the means to pursue the flying ambitions but has also taken up all my time, greatly slowing down the progress of my ground subjects. But not having a loan on my head pretty much outweighs all the cons.

Not decided yet, if I'll quit and go full throttle with aviation. Wisdom says to keep the job and not put in the hard earned cash into aviation in one go. But being almost 28 already, I don't have too much time on my hands. Started out in 2009 and still don't have much to show. Hopefully will clear the other subjects soon and then jump into completing my hours.

These reports may be pointless to most people, but may serve someone new to know what to expect in our great country. My advice like always, don't jump in unless you're prepared for the worst and definitely don't come here with a loan because that airline job will not come easy and why should the parents take your burden anyway? Last but not the least, have a backup for the time when all else fails.

Well anyway until next time.

MKS

[kunguru]

MIKE KILO SIERRA ........

Life start after 40. I had a PPL and was out of aviation for twelve years. After age of 40 and having saved few bucks, i went to do my CPL. Now am 52 years and have a ATPL.
IF YOU WANT TO REACH YOUR GOAL, THEN Struggle in LIFE.
Rightnow i have bought two flats in INDIA for my RETIRE LIFE PLANS:ok:

[Mike_Kilo_Sierra]

Encouraging words there Kunguru. Cheers!

MKS