Well, it came as no surprise. You may be a victim of software counterfeiting.

[Loose rivets]

But how come it's taken a year.


My PC has a licensed copy of XP, but a while back I installed a copy of XP supplied by a young man who assured me he was licensed to distribute. I didn't believe him. However, I said that I would insist that it was registered, and he didn't seem fazed by this.

All seemed to go well, and indeed updates arrived seamlessly. A couple of nights ago - just too early for April Fools - the above message arrived. I called MS and told them the tale.

I've been offered a legal copy for $149 - With a disc! - I thought this was pretty good, but really, I've got my original XP Home and think perhaps it might be worth putting the money into W7. One of the plus marks is that it would be sooooo nice to have a pure master disc, rather than my backup HP one with SP1 and LOADS of HP junk on it.

Furthermore...and this is a big furthermore, the backup disc scraps all my logical drives.



There are no more Beta W7 copies available, but I'm reticent to pay for one of the early offerings of any new OS. Equally, if I don't get a move on, I'll not get to grips with anything within my lifetime.:rolleyes:

I know that W7 has impressed some of you, what's the best course of action and (real)expected wait times etc..

[Saab Dastard]

Consensus view seems to be a June / July 2009 launch of Windows 7.

Given that it's an evolution of Vista, and the reaction to the betas have been pretty positive, I'd say it'll be pretty much OK from day 1.

Of course, many will always wait for SP1! But I think that a huge number will skip Vista SP1 and go from XP to 7.

MS really cannot afford another lemon like Vista.

SD

[green granite]

It probably came about because the key was a bulk key used by a company, every now and then bulk keys get cancelled and hence your problems.

Check your PMs

[Sprogget]

Rivets, you can expecta a release candidate version of 7 in a month or so. I am certain that version will find it's way out if you are comfy with bit torrent downloads. I have run 7 from build 6956 to build 7057 it's good. it's real good.

FWIW I have repeatedly activated the same copy of xp when machines have died, mobo's blown up etc. For the hell of it, I've rebuilt on the original disc & always been allowed to do so by ms. Maybe worth a go?

[green granite]

Why use bit torrents? plenty of sites that will give you direct downloads without the pain of those things.

[Sprogget]

Outside of the public beta, they've all been leaks, so not officially available. That's mainly the reason.

[green granite]

My point was that there are quite a few warez sites that utilize direct downloads, it doesn't take long using google to find them. :E

Saab if you're unhappy with these posts please delete them :ok:

[mixture]

For all the people who talk about BitTorrent etc. .....

"http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/" (http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/)

Not only are BitTorrent and other questionable sources illegal, but they are also great sources of virus ridden copies of software !

For the original poster :
I know that W7 has impressed some of you, what's the best course of action and (real)expected wait times etc..


I would suggest....
Forget about beta and/or illegal copies of W7.
Forget about Vista.
Take up Microsoft on their generous offer of a legit copy of XP.

[Sprogget]

Not only are BitTorrent and other questionable sources illegal

That is not at all the case, with great respect. Bit torrent is simply a means of sharing peer distributed files. The content of those files may well be illegal, depending upon what you are downloading, but tbit torrent itself is perfectly legitimate.

That is like saying a car is illegal because it's used in a robbery. It's all about the purpose.

[mixture]

Sprogget

With great respect to you, if you bothered to consider the context of my post, you would realise I was referring to BitTorrent in relation to Microsoft software.

BitTorrent is not, as far as I am aware, a legitimate download source for Microsoft software, those can be found on the Microsoft website if you have the appropriate licenses. If you have a more restrictive Microsoft license (e.g. the bundled OEM form commonly found with manufacturerd PCs), then you'll need a legit CD.

I'm not one to fight Microsoft's corner. But if you replace the name Microsoft with X ..... the quite substancial amount of hard work that any software development company has to put into producing and maintaining software deserves to be rewarded through people paying license fees.

[P.Pilcher]

Hang on: if you use "bit torrent" or other file sharing network to download a copy of XP, then install this on a new or re-harddrived machine, then validate ths copy with the original XP serial number from the old, scrapped machine or the serial number on the case of the machine with it's new hard drive, what is illegal in doing this?
It is only illegal if you validate with a "dodgey" serial number.

P.P.

[Sprogget]

Fair enough Mr. M, but please consider that I am speaking specifically within the context of beta builds of windows 7, that Microsoft, although silent on the subject, are definitely complicit and complying within the context of torrent downloads.

I could point you to MS owned chat forums wherein MS staff are discussing the merit of this & that in build 7068 etc. But you knew that right?


SD & anyone reading this, I am not advocating the illegal downloading of copyrighted software, merely reflecting upon the existence of routes to constituency that ms have used to evaluate non saleable beta versions of products for the purposes of tesrting, evaluation & feedback. Hell it says so all over the desktop!:)

[mixture]

P.Pilcher,

(a) If your orignal "scrapped" machine had an OEM license, then that license lives and dies with the machine. You cannot re-use it. Nor can you upgrade the motherboard in the same machine and re-use it.

(b) If you download from a questionable source, how can you be assured of the integrity of your copy ? How do you know there are no back doors, viruses, trojans or other nasties ?

(c) I believe (would need to double check) that Microsoft define a valid license as both the license key itself and the fact that you installed it using a valid bitset. I know this is certainly the case if you downgrade Vista Business ... you can re-use a license key but must use a valid bitset.

[preduk]

P.Pilcher,

The software agreement that comes with these cds says that you cannot copy or distribute the copyrighted material.

If you use or upload the software you are breaking the law.

[mixture]

Sprog,

Would be most interested to see the forum postings you are referring to. (Don't worry, I don't have any association with Microsoft, so I don't have any power to hunt you down for giving out the link.... :p)

beta builds of windows 7, that Microsoft, although silent on the subject

Don't read too much into silence..... in a corporate environment it may be that stuff like talking about licensing etc. is restricted to certain people who are permitted to commit the company.

[Sprogget]

Kay, here's one. MS own this site. Fill yer boots;)

The Green Button - Windows 7 Public Beta Forum (http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/104/ShowForum.aspx)

I don't believe in all honesty, from here & all the other deafening noise out there, that ms are anyting other than quite happy to have this stuff out there. OTOH, I can't prove that. OTOH again, ms aren't exactly running people into court for upping 7...:p

[mixture]

"http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/content.aspx?pg=counterfeit&displaylang=en"

"Counterfeit software is the result of unauthorized copying, reproduction, or manufacture of software products. Counterfeit software often looks authentic and is sometimes distributed in packaging that imitates the original manufacturer's packaging."

and

"Microsoft does not authorize any other Web sites to offer downloads of Microsoft software. Some of these counterfeit downloads may include viruses or broken code. The only way to download genuine Microsoft software is through Microsoft.com."


So the reason for the silence is perhaps because they already explicitly state their policy publicly.

[AvEnthusiast]

Let's assume that you are not using legitimate copy of microsoft and you received this counterfeiting message and the black screen. Is there any other way to get rid of this message and black screen apart from regestering your windows copy.

[Sprogget]

You are of course correct Mixture. However, it remains the case that downloads of Windows 7 builds are a useful method for MS to gain feedback on the progress of the os and thus MS are happy to look the other way. I'm not going to argue the legal position, rather the realpolitik that the geeky community experience every time MS need their products testing widely.:ok:


Edit to add, each iteration of 7 thus far is time bombed. 7068 hih has been the latest for example expires in July. This clarifies what MS expect of this software to me. Now if you were to break that expiration, that would be very naughty indeed....

[mixture]

AvEnthusiast

Let's assume that you are not using legitimate copy of microsoft and you received this counterfeiting message and the black screen. Is there any other way to get rid of this message and black screen apart from regestering your windows copy.

My guess would be that Microsoft put some time and effort into making sure the answer to that question is negative. Unless you are the Chinese government**, in which case you've got ready access to a copy of the source code.

**= ref press coverage in 2003, Source Code Browsing Lab at the China Testing and Certification Center for Information Security Products

Sprogget

Indeed, although your feedback is probably more likely to be heard if you get yourself onto a beta programme rather than hoping some poor soul will trawl through forum postings.

But licensing issues aside, in principle, yes, I agree with you, Microsoft need their software exposed to as much QA time as possible ! :ok:

[green granite]

I have never known a subject to bring out the "I'm more holy than you" attitudes than the pirated software debate. Most people know that it's not legal and most people who do it couldn't give a toss, trotting out the old clichés does not move them in the least.

An interesting occurrence during the release of photoshop CS2 where, if you downloaded it from Adobe, prayed for a key and installed it it woudn't install and aslo trashed the previous version. The easy work around people came up with on the forums was to download a warex copy and install it which worked perfectly and activate it with the payed for key.

[Sprogget]

Key genuflection?:}

I think a section of the market will always resist putting their hands in their pockets no matter what the software industry does. They range from the skint to the terminally corrupt to the teenage geek on a mission to show their skills(z).

Interestingly, a piece on the news today saying that the movie industry is leaving behind the hard hitting messages about knockoff dvd's, replacing it with a far subtler campaign thanking the viewer for contributing via their cinema ticket to the maintenance of the British film industry.

[green granite]

Interestingly, a piece on the news today saying that the movie industry is leaving behind the hard hitting messages about knockoff dvd's, replacing it with a far subtler campaign thanking the viewer for contributing via their cinema ticket to the maintenance of the British film industry.

A lot of people feel that the film industry has long ripped off the public with it's zoning and pricing policy, after all, why should someone in say Indonesia be ably to buy a legitimate DVD for the equivalent of a couple of quid yet it costs around twelve over here in the UK? That plus the hype over a new movie and when you go down to the local shop to buy a copy you find it won't be released in your zone for another couple of months but it's available in the States a week after the premier. I'm afraid a lot of their woes are self inflicted.

[Sprogget]

Yeah, I think it takes us back to this:

section of the market will always resist putting their hands in their pockets no matter what the software industry does

People aren't dumb. They may be corrupt, but not stupid. If you see this going on, you may well think why not? I have experience of the music biz & for years, it was from an artist's point of view, the most indentured form of contract working in existence, that would never have survived in any other industry and yet, the advent of pc's, downloads, p2p networks etc. sees them screaming like stuck pigs, claiming the artist's are being denied their due.

What they actually mean is the record co's take. In the case of the big music companies, I have very little sympathy. They ripped everyone off for years & failed to anticipate a turning of the tables.

[mixture]

I have never known a subject to bring out the "I'm more holy than you" attitudes than the pirated software debate.

Green Granite,

I think the problem is that people who are only too happy to use pirated software fail to comprehend just how expensive software development is.

A lot of effort goes into the whole software lifecycle .... designing it, coding it, distributing it, updating it and providing technical support. Not to mention the additional overheads of renting office space, running the accounts department etc.

Unfortunatley although Microsoft do benefit from economies of scale, they can only bring their prices down so much due to the fact that they have global operations and a large, complex product portfolio to develop and support.

It's a bit like the difference between BA's pricing and Ryanair's pricing. Yes BA benefit from economies of scale, but then Ryanair doesn't do longhaul (amongst one of many other differentiators)

Sprogget's comparison with the music industry is not really correct. Because in software development it's each for their own..... whilst the music industry is heavily based on centralised collection of royalties which are then distributed.

You can't give with one hand and take with the other. It's just not right to go out there and rave about how the latest beta build of Windows 3000 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and yet refuse to legally license your copies of XP or Vista, which is what is funding the future development costs.

Just look at the difference between what comes out of the FOSS world and what comes out of the commercial software development world. Compare Open Office to Microsoft Office. MS Office isn't perfect, but it's a lot more polished and developed than Open Office.

[frostbite]

To get back to XP, there are currently a lot of people offering OEM copies together with COA etc., of XP Pro on eBid. Mostly, they go for <£20.

[green granite]

mixture I neither condemn or condone it, I merely point out that it exists and if you want to go that route it's easy enough to find. Pointing out that it's illegal, riddled with viruses etc is totally irrelevant as people who move in such circles are well aware of those facts and are perfectly capable of dealing with them. As for costs the argument that every pirated copy is a lost sale is also a red herring because most people who use a pirated copy wouldn't have brought the program anyway (i'm thinking in terms of high value stuff such as photoshop etc)

Unfortunatley although Microsoft do benefit from economies of scale, they can only bring their prices down so much due to the fact that they have global operations and a large, complex product portfolio to develop and support.


To say nothing of the costs of running a team of lawyers and fighting lawsuits etc. :)

[MacBoero]

Loose Rivets - I do a bit of freelance PC maintenance and I came across something very similar about a year ago. This person had a PC they had bought with a license, and at some point had suffered some failure or problem that had rquired them to seek the help of a knowledgeable friend. This 'friend' had done a complete system reinstall using his own media, and entered some sort of VLK to activate the XP installation.

It had been no problem for a while until an update occurred for the Microsoft Genuine Advantage program. This promptly locked out all further online updates and had this annoying pop-up declaring that the installation was not genuine and to contact MS.

The user ignored the pop-up for a while, until further functionality was degraded, I can't remember precisely what, but the machine became virtually useless. I think it would start up applications other than Internet Explorer, or something like that.

They brought the machine to me, and I had a delve around inside the machine using an Ultimate Boot CD for Windows (Do a Google for it.). This allowed me to locate the license keys used. The stupid thing was the 'helpful friend' had neglected to use the license key on the MS Windows sticker on the PC case.

So back out, reboot into Windows, at the pop-up in the system tray that complains about the installation there is a link to contact Microsoft to re-register, or something like that. Clicked on it, which opened up IE to a page at MS. There you are able to contact them to buy a new key or enter a new one. I simply entered the one from the label on the case and every thing was fixed. No reinstallation was necessary.

[mixture]

As for costs the argument that every pirated copy is a lost sale is also a red herring because most people who use a pirated copy wouldn't have brought the program anyway (i'm thinking in terms of high value stuff such as photoshop etc)

I'm not quite sure that argument as presently worded makes much sense.

The problem is that even if those people "wouldn't have bought the progam", now that they have got a pirated copy, those same people start complaining that the software anti-piracy measures are kicking in to prevent them obtaining software updates or somesuch. Hence they are expecting paid-up benefits without paying for them.

Anyhow, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :cool:


p.S. I was not and am not targetting you or anyone else here ..... just making the case against software pirates in general.

[Saab Dastard]

There you are able to contact them to buy a new key or enter a new one. I simply entered the one from the label on the case and every thing was fixed. No reinstallation was necessary.

That's interesting - there's obviously a difference in how Windows manages license keys between the actual installation and registration (or re-registration), as I know it is not possible to input a VLK while installing a retail copy and vice-versa.

SD

[Gertrude the Wombat]

To say nothing of the costs of running a team of lawyers and fighting lawsuits etc
If you are a large company with lots of money you will get parasites coming after you with lawyers trying it on, so you need your own lawyers to defend against that.

[BladePilot]

A while back I was trying to source a XP Pro disc in the Emirates so I popped down to the local computer area in town picked the most 'professional' looking shop and asked if they could sell me an XP Pro OS disc. 'Yes sure we can' one quick phone call to one of the other shops just around the corner and within minutes a young Indian 'runner' appeared with the disc. Quite clearly stamped across the disc was 'only to be distributed with a new PC' it was cheap but I decided not worth the hassle should anything go wrong. Enterprising chaps those Indian PC traders!

[green granite]

mixture as you say best leave us to disagree on some points, I do tend to play devils advocate at times. :cool::ok:

Further to the piracy debate:


Piracy law cuts internet traffic


Internet traffic in Sweden fell by 33% as the country's new anti-piracy law came into effect, reports suggest.

Sweden's new policy - the Local IPRED law - allows copyright holders to force internet service providers (ISP) to reveal details of users sharing files.

According to figures released by the government statistics agency - Statistics Sweden - 8% of the entire population use peer-to-peer sharing.

Popular BitTorrent sharing site, The Pirate Bay, is also based in Sweden.

The new law, which is based on the European Union's Intellectual Property Rights Enforcement Directive (IPRED), allows copyright holders to obtain a court order forcing ISPs to provide the IP addresses identifying which computers have been sharing copyrighted material.

Figures from Netnod, a Swedish firm that measures internet traffic in and out of the country, suggest traffic fell from an average of 120Gbps to 80Gbps on the day the new law came into effect.

Full story at : BBC NEWS | Technology | Piracy law cuts internet traffic (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7978853.stm)

[P.Pilcher]

O.K. chaps, with reference to the reaction to my post on page 1, I always understood that when you bought a legitimate copy of XP you were licenced to use it on one computer. Microsoft did not want it to be on more than one machine and if it was transferred to another machine, then the original one must be taken out of use. I have managed to do this, obtaining validaion from the microsoft site on several occasions. However if this would appear to be illegal, I will take the necessary action and post no more on the topic!

P.P.

[Loose rivets]

Morally, it seems very high handed of MS to say that you can't change your mother board. Whatever the rules, I wouldn't feel any burden of guilt about it...if I could make it work.

Thanks Mac. Well, the problem was that it was effectively an upgrade. I said to the MS guy that I didn't need Pro, but when my number was put into the boxes, he said that it was specifically Home. I gathered, but was not sure, that I might have been able to use it if they'd been the same.

This machine has the original disc and OS. The Pro was just a curiosity thing to be played with. The young man gave a huge spiel about how they'd taken over the rights. Odd how some people almost believe what they're selling you after they've done it a few times.

The thing is that it was installed with a Skin and other goodies built in. It had me fooled about its difference. Furthermore, it was installed onto a much faster drive and the performance difference was astonishing. Again, I thought Pro was something special. Saab put me right on that one, saying that the core of the OS was just the same (Sic) Stripping away the toys, it was just XP...but, several mentions of Vista popped up here and there, again leading me to think that there might have been some Vista development going on by this stage of Sp3 Some sort of hybrid.

Anyway, it's a 'dirty' piece of software, and time to liberate the faster disc for W7 when I can find time.

[green granite]

P.Pilcher Providing it's a full copy of windows ie not an OEM one, then yes that's fine. OEM ones are limited to the machine it was issued to/with, although how much you can modify it before it's no longer that m/c I'm not sure.

[Loose rivets]

Off one of the emay ads.



Not the retail version; the software is commercial software Retail users dont use professional software,professional software has no limitations simple as that

used on company computers or home pcs you don’t have to call Microsoft ever to install on more than 5 pcs. If you are looking for the retail version

this is non retail edition This software is for the user who wants the freedoom to install on unlimited amout of pcs for personal use only.



Format your hard drive a100 times you wont have to activate windows its fully activated, integrated product key for quick install

[Saab Dastard]

Not the retail version; the software is commercial software Retail users dont use professional software,professional software has no limitations simple as that

used on company computers or home pcs you don’t have to call Microsoft ever to install on more than 5 pcs. If you are looking for the retail version

this is non retail edition This software is for the user who wants the freedoom to install on unlimited amout of pcs for personal use only.

Format your hard drive a100 times you wont have to activate windows its fully activated, integrated product key for quick install

Oh dear, oh dear oh dear! Should be reported to ebay at once. This is such errant and fraudulent nonsense. :mad:

No reflection on you, Loose Rivets, solely on the ebay "seller".

SD

[Keef]

I bought a "retail" copy of XP Pro for my main desktop machine, a few years ago. It came with a COA sticker which I put on the PC case.
Later, I bought a laptop with a preinstalled XP pro and a licence key label stuck to it - but no CD.

The laptop's installation went wacky, so I reinstalled off the CD I bought for the desktop. When it came to validation, it complained and refused to activate. I phoned the number it gave, explained to the MS person on the phone, gave her the licence key details off the laptop, and was told a long stream of numbers to type in. That activated the laptop, which has been fine ever since.

HOWEVER ... to answer the original question - I'm surprised MS are asking for you to pay for a legit copy of XP. Normally, they don't. If you can muddle along with the XP you have, I'd wait for the release of the real Windows 7 and go straight to that. I run the beta on that same desktop and am very impressed with it.

[Loose rivets]

Keef. That's my plan. It was the comments on here and indeed one of your posts, that made me start looking at W7



Saab. Yes, even on a bad day, with avarice running on red-line, I don't think I'd plump for that deal.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Should be reported to ebay at once.
Well, if you fancy a full time upaid job which is unlikely to have any effect you could spend all day reporting ebay scams and having your reports ignored whilst more scams are posted faster than you can report them :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

I avoid ebay scams very very simply ...




... I don't do ebay, it really is that easy.

[Saab Dastard]

reporting ebay scams and having your reports ignored

I find ebay very good at responding to problems with listings that are brought to their attention.

I certainly don't go out of my way to search for such listings, though!

My ebay experience has actually been very positive over the last 5 years, although I am certainly no apologist for them.

SD

[jimtherev]

...Later, I bought a laptop with a preinstalled XP pro and a licence key label stuck to it - but no CD.

The laptop's installation went wacky, so I reinstalled off the CD I bought for the desktop. When it came to validation, it complained and refused to activate. I phoned the number it gave, explained to the MS person on the phone, gave her the licence key details off the laptop, and was told a long stream of numbers to type in. That activated the laptop, which has been fine ever since...


I bought a new box t'other day with XP Pro installed, again, no disk, no COA. First thing I did was the MSoft update/validate thing: all ok, and I have a genuine XP Pro disk around from another machine. But with no COA...
but Googling produced a neat little prog called Keyfinder: downloaded, ran it, and hey I have a COA number, should I ever (as if!) trash me hard drive and need to reinstall. Hope never to use it :)

[mixture]

Morally, it seems very high handed of MS to say that you can't change your mother board.


Just think about your statement logically for a moment.

The motherboard is the PC.

Without the motherboard, the PC is just a pile of metal. A hard drive on it's own means nothing as it requires the motherboard with it's BIOS etc to boot off the hard drive. The motherboard is biggest single driver of PC spec due to it housiing many of the major performance features (e.g. CPU etc.)

Therefore Microsoft are quite right when they say you can upgrade your hard drive, graphics cards, memory to your hearts content, but not your motherboard.

Replacing a broken motherboard is, of course, generally another matter, particularly if done under warranty.