CTC Wings

[wilson87]

Still looking at the possibility of starting a career as a pilot, I've looked on the CTC Wings website and this looks like the best option financially.

Would I be right in saying that?

Finance is a major factor for me, also the CTC website say's you pay a deposit of £60,000. Is this the case? I take it you get this back?

Cheers

[One9iner]

Wilson, use the Pprune search function for discussions regarding CTC. There's a specific thread in the Interviews Jobs section plus many other threads discussing pros and cons of a full time route vs a modular route. Also plenty on finance and selection process.

Be aware that people who frequent these discussion forums appreciate it when people avoid repeating whats already been discussed over 100000 pages.

enjoy:ok:

[wilson87]

I see, apologies and cheers!

[TheBeak]

You absolutely, categorically, unequivocably do NOT get the '£60000' back. YOU pay for your training. It isn't a sponsorship either now. You take a secured loan and are given work experience with an airline for 6 months at best. I am not trying to slate it, it's a better option that most, but it isn't a sponsorship and you don't get your money back by any stretch of the imagination. If you like the sound of that then go for it.

[Ollie23]

There are pages and pages of info on this.

You most certainly will not be getting any money back, you pay thats how its always been, only difference now is loan needs to be secured. Just get reading and do your research before you dive into to anything.
Good luck.

[Davina777]

If finance is truely a major factor, then consider doing the course modular, if you wanna do the course at Bournemouth, then consider BCFT. If you're savvy enough, you can knock off half that!!

www.bcft.org.uk

Intergrated courses are great, but really not for those wishing to complete their training with minimum outlay!

[Sciolistes]

You absolutely, categorically, unequivocably do NOT get the '£60000' back.
There seems to be much confusion and misinformation regarding the CTC bond. To say you don't get it back in such strong terms is incorrect.

If you succeed in training, get placed with a partner airline, get through the six month probation period, the bond will be repayed (actually you get more than 60k back) over 84 months so long as you remain with the partner airline.

[TFlexMax80]

It's all semantics really. You could argue that the money get paid back to you over 84 months with a partner airline, but then for that period you are on a reduced salary from other non-cadets to the tune of around the same amount as the 'bond' repayment. The key point is that the debt is in your name and your name alone.

Added to this that the chances of getting 84 months continuous employment from some of the partner airlines have never been so poor, and suddenly it's not quite so attractive. Airlines (orange ones) might like seasonal employees, but banks certainly will not like seasonal repayments!

[quant]

most people will get a loan from the bank to fund this endeavour and the interest should be thought of when trying to work out the costs...:suspect:

[BitMoreRightRudder]

If you succeed in training, get placed with a partner airline, get through the six month probation period, the bond will be repayed (actually you get more than 60k back) over 84 months so long as you remain with the partner airline.

I'm confused Sciolistes. Who do you think repays the "bond" (loan)?

[TheBeak]

Exactly BMRR. And who has been kept past their 6 month probabtion period in the last year?

[Starkiller]

Right Rudder is correct Sciolistes, over the 84 months of the "bond" being repayed by your partner airline your pay is convieniently around £12k less than the direct entry salary.

If you are not with a partner airline you simply have the full direct entry salary and pay your loan yourself after tax.

As such, via both routes, YOU are definately paying any way you look at it. I'm certainly not complaining, it works out in the long run!

[Mikehotel152]

And the same is probably true of SSTR and pay to fly schemes generally?

http://forums.multiplay.co.uk/images/smilies/emot-can.gif

[Ollie23]

I wouldn't quite lump it in the same bracket as a pay to fly scheme if that’s what you’re getting at. However I’ll happily admit that by going through CTC wings I am effectively ‘buying in’ by paying for my jet rating through the cost of the course, so the comparison to SSTR schemes is fair enough.

[potkettleblack]

The CTC scheme and others like it work fine when there is a steady job market. Unfortunately the wheels fall off somewhat in a down market. As we can see now there are very few jobs. Big CTC customers like Easyjet are now turning the tables and offering only short term summer contracts and not fulltime employment as was originally anticipated when the scheme was setup all those years ago. In the past summer contracts were exclusively the domain of the charter operators to take account of the unique nature of their business.

Even when the market was booming people were swimming in the CTC hold pool for up to a year. I hate to think how long it is now. Then when called forward people are not getting their 84 months of work experience but far far less. Unfortunately the bank funding was all worked out on a repayment plan with x amount of cash coming in the door over a prescribed period. Now when you crunch the numbers you will have to be very risk averse.

You then get into some interesting dilemmas. What happens if you only get a few months of work with Easyjet for example. Do you have a seniority number that puts you at the front of the queue next time around when they are hiring? Or are you just hoping that some nice Easyjet HR person will help you out and do it off their own back as there may be nothing in your contract to cover such eventualities? What if they want 737 people next time around and you are 320 rated? What if another operator comes along and needs pilots - can you jump ship? The list of what ifs is almost endless.

I am not binning the scheme at all. All I would say is tread very carefully. Do your numbers and base them on worst case scenarios. Compare a modular course cost to the CTC scheme and see how it all stacks up in the end including salary sacrifice, financing costs, deposits (including loss of interest) etc. If you are lured to the CTC scheme because of the job prospects then only you can judge if there really are any at the moment or for the near future. Good luck.

[Mintflavour]

Last year when I was working with a bunch of CTC cadets, they all had around £100K debts, due to other expenses on top of the advertised £60K. tread carfully, good scheme but in this climate you can easily still left hung out to dry after your lines experience, And then before you know it your on Jobseekers allowance....... bugger