Carrying Passenger on dual NAV flights prior to PPL issue

[ckaine]

Hi all,

I am wondering whether anyone could answer this question for me?

Would be legal to carry a passenger on a dual NAV flight, after obtaining the GFPT, but prior to obtaining the PPL.
Assuming no emergency procedures are practised.

Also, would it make any difference if the passenger held a SPL?

Many thanks,
Chris

[Lasiorhinus]

Would be legal to carry a passenger on a dual NAV flight, after obtaining the GFPT, but prior to obtaining the PPL.
Assuming no emergency procedures are practised.

CAR 5.72 May an instructor permit a student to carry passengers while flying as pilot in command?
(1) An authorised flight instructor must not permit a student pilot to fly as pilot in command of an aircraft in which a passenger is carried.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(2) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.

(3) It is a defence to a prosecution under subregulation (1) if:
(a) the flight takes place solely within the student pilot area limit;
and
(b) the student pilot has passed a general flying progress flight test, and a basic aeronautical knowledge examination, for aircraft of the category used for the flight.

So, no, unless the flight takes place in the Student Pilot Area Limit, and you have a GFPT, you cannot carry passengers.


Also, would it make any difference if the passenger held a SPL?

Yes, it certainly does.

CAR 5.73 May an instructor permit a student to carry other students while flying as pilot in command?
(1) An authorised flight instructor must not permit a student pilot to fly as pilot in command of an aircraft in which another student pilot is a member of the aircraft’s operating crew if each of the following requirements is not satisfied:
(a) some part of the flight takes place outside the student pilot area limit;
(b) the student pilot has flown at least 5 hours of cross-country flight time as pilot in command of an aircraft of the category used for the flight;
(c) the student pilot’s most recent cross-country flight as pilot in command of an aircraft of the category used for the flight was undertaken as the sole occupant of the aircraft.

If you have at least 5 hours PIC cross country, and the flight leaves the Student Pilot Area Limit, and you did not carry passengers on your last nav, then you may carry another student pilot with you on the flight.

[Lasiorhinus]

Sorry - I didnt read the question properly.

CAR 249 Prohibition of carriage of passengers on certain flights
(1) The pilot in command of an aircraft that carries a passenger must not engage in any of the following types of flying:
(a) flying training given to a person who has not passed a general flying progress flight test for aircraft of the category concerned;

If its a Dual navigation flight, and you have a GFPT, (remember the instructor is Pilot in Command, and holds a CPL or higher), then of course you can take a passenger.

[Unhinged]

Lasorhinus gives the correct answer :ok:

However CAR 249 also prohibits practicing emergency procedures while there are passengers on board, so some of the learning opportunity is lost straightaway. Also, on the (rare) occasions when my students have taken passengers along, they have always been somewhat distracted by trying to make sure that their friends/rellies/partners enjoy the flight/know what's going on/don't chunder because it's bumpy and they're in the back of a light aircraft. It's also harder to give a metaphorical kick-up-the-bum in this situation - No-one likes to have their performance criticised in front of people they value.

In practice, I've found there to be a noticeable increase in the student's stress levels, a decrease in performance, a significant reduction in learning, and I can't do the job that the student is paying me to do; All with no reduction in the cost of the lesson, of course.

So rather than doing it as a formal training flight, it's much more fun for everyone to simply make it a dual flight and take the passenger, but keep the exercise relaxed and informal. The objective becomes the safe completion of an enjoyable flight, rather than any more formal learning aims.