View Full Version : Which is the Most Challenging NDB Approach>
rjtjrt
28th Mar 2009, 23:31
The OLD Bendigo NDB approach in a brisk south west wind was for me.
The Truckie
28th Mar 2009, 23:35
Cowra NDB. The holding pattern on the wrong side then a procedure turn. Lots of work in crappy weather. Not sure if it has been changed now.
greybeard
28th Mar 2009, 23:52
The old, old Tennant creek, 2 proceedure turns in the holding pattern and one in the letdown
:ugh:
ForkTailedDrKiller
28th Mar 2009, 23:55
The next one I have to fly!
Dr :8
airman1
28th Mar 2009, 23:56
Cowra NDB is high work load in the soup I will second that! Bathurst NDB is the best for renewals 3 mins outbound (from memory) plenty of time to get it all sorted and to top it off pretty much RWY aligned. I have heard pilots speak of NDB approaches around TAS that are pretty hairy on a good day:eek::eek:
Going to miss the days of an NDB approaches but an RNAV is just as good as an ILS and is much better for the air switch so operators love it!:ok:
RadioSaigon
29th Mar 2009, 00:12
The old NZMO (Manapouri) NDB approach used to renowned as one of the toughest... not sure if it's still the same as it was way-back-when... many years since I've flown it -or even thought about it!
pa60ops
29th Mar 2009, 00:37
Actually, I reckon any approach you have to circle off the end of!!! Thank goodness for runway aligned procedures I say....:ok:
Mach E Avelli
29th Mar 2009, 00:41
My favourite is the Alice Springs NDB (in the old days it was called a twin locater, I think) to circle rwy 30. In a Cat C aeroplane with one serviceable ADF. A few traps for the unwary.
j3pipercub
29th Mar 2009, 02:03
you beat me to it Dr.
j3
bushy
29th Mar 2009, 02:24
Alice Springs had an approach which I think was called a"twin NDB" approach for a short time.
The chart showed it as a straight line approach using two locators and the NDB. The only one in Australia using three aids.
The problem was that the two locators were aligned with the runway, and the NDB was not. So we actually had a bent approach which was shown as straight. There was a built in 4 degree error.
This approach was almost unflyable within normal tolerances, and was quickly changed after a westwind freighter had a CFIT one night, killing three pilots.
S.E.A.L.11
29th Mar 2009, 03:09
RadioSaigon the approach hasnt changed much at Manapouri, here is the link:
http://www.aip.net.nz/pdf/NZMO_31.1_44.1.pdf
Id say you would get dizzy on this approach if you had to go missed. :\ Can you imagine this in a low performance aircraft! :ooh:
Here is a Twin NDB/DME approach for Dunedin, which actually uses three NDB's if you include the missed approach...
http://www.aip.net.nz/pdf/NZDN_44.1_44.2.pdf
RadioSaigon
29th Mar 2009, 03:58
hehe yup S.E.A.L.11 that's it orright! :} She's a purler!
Yeah have had the dubious pleasure of shooting the BE Twin NDB/DME into NZDN many times. Don't miss it at all, strangely, especially in a howling NW with a 4,000' FZL!
W00kiee
29th Mar 2009, 09:55
VLI 11 VOR DME NDB.
Yes you use all of them if you fly the full shebang. Out bound on a VOR radial DME arc around to a Inbound NDB bearing to bring you in on a base.
Peter Fanelli
29th Mar 2009, 09:56
The old ADL 05 with only one ADF
AussieNick
29th Mar 2009, 10:13
the one you do on your initial issue flight test
oh crap, thats me tomorrow :uhoh:
Capn Bloggs
29th Mar 2009, 10:47
Which is the Most Challenging NDB Approach
The next one I have to do that's not in the database...
Konev
29th Mar 2009, 11:01
dunedin NDBs have a great habbit of wandering everywhere. beleive NZs strong gust was recorded at swampy as well, dont quote me on it though.
RadioSaigon
29th Mar 2009, 11:09
...dunedin NDBs have a great habbit of wandering everywhere...
hmmmm... seems to me that ADF's generally have a habit of pointing at every stray electron in the sky!!! The NDB's however are most likely to be found where you left them...
No argument from me re SW though. That place is fierce.
Tiger 77
29th Mar 2009, 13:10
The Perth NDB the day after it was de-commissioned. Had us a bit confused for a while, thought it was just my flying skills!
Tiger
yowieII
29th Mar 2009, 14:02
AYE gets a bit bendy with the dunes, the ASP twin LOC/NDB was a horses arse with two ADF's! Still made us do it the sim after it was canned:confused:
kellykelpie
29th Mar 2009, 16:42
Mount Magnet, with the long 'visual' leg.
slackie
29th Mar 2009, 20:13
I always thought Kaikoura was an "interesting one"...particularly if you take into account the terrain on the nose!!
http://www.aip.net.nz/pdf/NZKI.pdf :ugh:
apache
29th Mar 2009, 21:18
the old SCONE one was always a pleasure to attempt.
onthedials
29th Mar 2009, 21:36
The Cooktown NDB in a strong sou'easter. Beacon 4 miles from the runway and lots of altitude still to lose after passing.
ga_trojan
29th Mar 2009, 22:09
Alice Springs would have to be the hardest. 2 NDBs, Timed missed approach, an altitude limit, only circling to land with a right hand pattern and a procedure turn. I don't think there is another one in the country that has all that in it! Launceston is similar but at least there you have the option of a straight in approach if you get visual early enough.
dantanna
29th Mar 2009, 22:23
maybe not mega difficult but philip island YPID:
http://airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/dap/PIDNB01-116.pdf
has an outbound leg based on groundspeed which can be interesting getting down to the minima in a roaring westerly with a student at the controls and an instructor covering dials and pulling engines
Alex 009
30th Mar 2009, 05:59
Any NDB! I hated them whilst doing my Instrument Rating.
The Wynyard(Tas) rwy 27 ndb using Devonport dme always had me working as the dme counts upwards when inbound on the final segment, sounds simple but can get nasty on a dark and stormy night after a long day.
ReverseFlight
31st Mar 2009, 03:37
dantanna, what you described (YPID) was exactly what I flew on my initial. I even had to circle with one engine. The fun part was the go-around - lots of rudder !
Goat Whisperer
31st Mar 2009, 03:57
Melbourne rwy 16....
because right now you've gotta do it.
LNAV/VNAV helps.
But what about A380s? I heard that they don't have ADFs. Fair enough, they're obsolete equipment, but when the localiser is taken out and there's no RNAV.....
Fred Gassit
31st Mar 2009, 08:25
I second LM82s choice, Ive watched guys have a complete short between their headset trying to maintain a steady profile on that one.
KRUSTY 34
31st Mar 2009, 08:31
Gidday apache.
Remember one dark and stormy night when we lost RAIM just before the FAF on a certain South Coast RNAV approach? Missed approach followed by the NDB to minima, then a circle to land in black drizzle over a featureless ocean onto final, without slope guidance! It's the unexpected ones that get your attention. C'mon mate, you do miss it don't you.
The bummer was, it was my leg! :confused:
troppo
31st Mar 2009, 08:59
Not proud (young and stupid?) of it but the most challenging NPA was regular Garmin 100 let downs in IMC below LSALT into bush strips all over Morobe. You wanna talk accuracy and tolerance on a CDI bar?
apache
31st Mar 2009, 10:51
KRUSTY....
well do I remember those dark and rainy nights when you were just PRAYING to get in.
Ice falling off, or sticking, everywhere. 40-50knots at 5000', and always across your path. Unable to cancel SAR on the ground, because it was "just one of those places". NDB needle arcing thru 20deg either side of track, and a schedule to keep.... followed by an 11 hour day the next day, with six sectors.
After finally getting in at the final destination, getting handed the keys to a car to drive myself/ourselves to some minimum requirement hotel in Bumf#ck nowhere for MINIMUM rest and still having to sleep, eat, iron, eat again, and drive BACK to airport to preflight before dawn in the pouring rain, WITH NO RAINCOAT, to be told to "hurry up".
This is inevitably followed by a phone call asking if I will come in on my day off the next day for another 11 hour day. ALL whilst working for F$ck all $$$$ AND having to fight for a fair days pay in my time off, as well as do many company required courses, and amend manuals and Jepps at night(unpaid or time recognised) once I had fought traffic all the way home(could be up to 2 hour drive in peak hour) cos some genius rostered that we should finish our 11 hour day two last flight at 1645.
then the phone call 4 weeks later asking why we were 5 mins late that day.
DO I MISS IT? he asks....
truthfully, the answer is NO.
Am I a better person and pilot because of it? well, I like to think so.
This subject's been done before on Pprune. Go to:
http://www.pprune.org/d-g-general-aviation-questions/250672-crazy-approaches.html