Bush flying

[Karel F Jankowitz]

Hi
Is there any bush pilots out there operating single engine aircaraft with some good advice and hard learned lessons to pass on.

[Meatbomber]

my "bush" flying experience only consists out of flying skydivers with a Skyvan out of a field that is curved and has a hump in it...

but i guess doing that for 3 days ain't really experience... (but at least it wasn't an airfield ;))

Are you flying for AIM?

MB

[Feather #3]

C210,

As you apparently hail from Africa, may I respectfully suggest that you post this on that regional forum. That way you should get info relevant to your intended operation.

My advice from years ago on mountain flying and tropical operations would be useless to you in Namibia.

Equally, plenty of current guys on D&G could chip in with some help.

Good luck! :)

G'day

[toopa]

c210, biggest advice I can give you is to take a jar of vicks and shove a heap up your nose to keep the smell out.on T/O When heavy keep your nose down, Build up speed before retracting the flaps.

[AMEX]

Yeah and when you want to get airborne despite hot, high and heavy, this is how to.
- Flaps up during the runway backtrack.
As you turn around the aircraft, increase power so the aeroplane turns with as much speed it can take during the turn.
- Start rolling.
Once the speed has built up enough, select full flaps and.... off you are airborne.
Flaps retraction to be done using your fine touch veeery slowly until they are up and you have sufficient speed to climb away.
If you have mountain experience, that's how you would do it there as well.
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/Bartman.gif

[HugMonster]

Is the captain of Airforce One a Bush pilot? :D

[Paterbrat]

Loved that 210 a great plane, bit of a ground hog but great once you got her up. Same capacity as a 206 but certainly didn't fly like one. Wasn't quite sure about the advice on the Vicks I only wanted that when I had a corpse and unfortunately didn't have any handy, smelled that body for weeks after in the plane, probably only psycological, though a few people commented on our airfreshner.

[Raimond]

G'day! I found this link a couple of months ago. It's the electronic version of 'A guide to bushflying'. Interesting stuff!

http://www.fepco.com/Bush_Flying.html

Greetz. Raimond

[crash landings]

G'DAY C210. THE ONLY ADVICE THAT I CAN GIVE YOU IS WHAT I'VE LEARNT FROM PNG (BIG ****ING HILLS) IS WHEN YOUR COMING IN TO LAND MAKE SURE YOU NAIL THAT AIRSPEED AND SAY TO YOUR SELF "HIGH OR LOW FAST OR SLOW" ARE YOU TOO HIGH OR TOO LOW / ARE YOU TOO FAST OR TOO SLOW. FOLLOW AMEX'S ADVICE REGARDING TAKING OFF HEAVY THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT TECHNIQUE WHEN TAKING OFF HEAVY. THE OTHER ADVICE IS WHEN YOUR FLYING NEAR THE HILL AND THERE ARE CLOUDS AROUND DONT ALWAYS APPROACH THE GAP STRAIGHT ON, ALWAYS APPROACH FROM AN ANGLE SO IF YOU CAN'T SEE ANY CLEARING BEHIND THE GAP YOUR ALREADY HALF WAY OUT. FLY SAFE AND HAVE FUN.

CHEERS.

[Flying Bean]

AMEX - Good advise. I would just add -
KEEP THE NOSE DOWN. Assuming obstructions are not an immediate problem just be glad to get the plane in the air and stabilise your speed before attempting the climb out. As Amex said a VERY GENTLE hand with the flap removal.
The opposite exercise is the landing. With my new pilots I always give them the following test on the check ride.Dirt Strip. Full load.
Full Flap approach. 10 ft above touch down Yell (and I mean yell) " Game on the runway".
Most are good on the power application but never hold the nose down enough. Then revert back to the take off proceedure as above.
Good luck and enjoy Namibia

[Capitun F]

Taking Off with FULL FLAPS in a C210? I can tell you one thing, in warm to hot conditions and a bit of weight inside the acft, it won't climb!!! I personally would only use full flaps for immediate airborne stuff when the strip is either very rough or boggy. If you have obstacles to clear at the end like a tall fence/power lines or trees, full flap will put you into them.

[tep01]

"Bush" flying is the same throughout the world. One is essentially operating an aircraft, wheather it be a Cessna 210, Piper Super Cub, or B-N Islander at the limits of its performance capability. "Bush" flying is not for inexperienced pilots, it is not someplace to learn to fly, the penalties are too high. If you understand the performance, then the question is a yes or a no to a landing area. It is the maybe's and the "I might be able to" that will kill you. Determine what you can carry, and say NO to anything else--this may save your life. For those who use full flaps for takeoff, unless empty, they are only demonstrating their lack of knowledge of their aircraft's performance. Remember, flying in marginal conditions takes good judgment. Never put yourself in a position where you need exceptional luck and skills, when your luck runs out, your skills will not be enough. If it doesn not seem right, it usually isn't.

Best of luck, enjoy what that world of aviation has to offer. It is interesting, challenging, and has its own set of rewards.

[Lazzzarus]

My bush flying consists of flying 210's and 206's packed to the hilt over the grand canyon, monument valley, sedona, telluride (all a bunch of v.interesting airports)! etc etc. It's the most fun i've had flying :D

Just remember discression is the better part of valour!

Good luck and have a blast....it's the best :p

[ 22 September 2001: Message edited by: Lazzz ]

[compressor stall]

Some good points above:

For the 210:

For boggy or rough strips, takeoff with full flaps, get airborne (about 50KIAS) the hold it in ground effect and retract the flaps slowly stage by stage. The force required to keep the nose down is remarkable.

DO NOT pull the aircraft out of a bog by the front nosewheel. It rips them out.

Clear an area of stones directly underneath your prop to prevent stone damage on startup. Do all your prop cycle and mag checks whilst moving (backtracking) on dirt runways.

Carry a small toolkit in addition to your survival gear. Include tiewire and duct tape.

Mark every forced landing area that you see on a chart, and take the time to plug it into the GPS. Make up your own code as to how good they are for a forced landing. Prefix 1 might mean excellent - in and out no worries, to prefix 3 will get in with damage. You never know when you will need them, especially if you are VMC on top or worse... Make sure you can use the GPS GOTO NEAREST function quickly.

Practice popping the window on the 210 with your elbow as you lower the nosewheel to the ground.

Do some P charts, and factor them for your operations. from memory, P charts are predicated on full power before brakes release. But doing that will see your prop last about 100 hours.

Treat your engine well, avoid shock cooling.

Know your stall speeds at different weights in turns of various angles.

Get into a mental habit of using the gear as a speedbrake. Means that you won't forget it as you will be way too fast to get the flaps out...

Practice low level circuits, 500, 300, 200, 100 feet. you never know when you might be forced to do them.

Curse the person who removed the ram air wing root vents on the 210 series. :mad:

Know where the hydraulic reservoir is (a surprising number of pilots don't) AND CHECK IT. :eek:


The 210 is a wonderful machine that deserves respect. IMHO is is harder to fly well (ie ball in the centre, nail set speeds etc) than most light twins. Enjoy!

CS

[Flying Bean]

Excellent Thread.
Good stuff from "Compressor Stall"
I was going to widen the thread buy talking about crash/forced landings but think it would be better to start a new thread to try and get some diverse opions on options and experience. Please all go to "How to crash land a single" and chip in.

[Cardinal Puff]

CS

Good post, Boss. Brought back a few nightmares. Another problem is loading the aircraft. If she's out of CofG envelope Skydiving pilots take note) and the engine quits you may get a nasty surprise. The induced airflow from the engine and prop is sometimes all that keeps her from stalling.

[Herc Jerk]

Be careful.

I get the feeling you are recently new to this. Please don't use full flap to TOFF in any mountainous area. Nor should you learn ridge crossing techniques from a website.

Be humble, listen, filter out the BS, check everything yourself (fuel, caps, weights etc) and always give yourself a margin for error- eg do all calculations and considerations (can i take/make that) on the safe side.

As Feather#3 says, go on over to D&G and see if some of the current PNG "shags" will throw in some stuff- i am sure they'll be glad to rattle on (much like i am doing :) ) But please just file this info away. If you need it someday, maybe it will save your life- if you make it a way of life- go figure.

Sure rolling starts reduce your strip used, but more importantly reduce the wear and tear on your prop from stone damage. If you are using rolling starts to get out of an airstrip you are pushing it too hard. And full flap? Sure i have used it, at the last minute... because i f*cked up. One example that comes to mind TOFF from 5500'alt, short wet muddy strip, d*ckhead (thats me) loads up too much cr*p and barrels off. Next second, and a couple of mud holes later, i am about to become a 600hp brushcutter. Select full flap to save my job... pop up over said bush, but i had to trade, and luckily i could as the overrun was a valley. Plenty more war stories but i will spare you all, and some that still make me shudder and wonder "how the hell?". My point though is i didn't plan to use it but it saved my arse when i needed it. But i needed it because of my own oversight in the first place, so moral is "don't push it". Here endeth the lesson.

While you are over on D&G ask if anyone can post a copy of "A Potpurri of Bush Techniques" written a while back by an old-hand MAF driver in PNG. It is well worth the read and he has wiser words than i could hope to achieve. I have a paper copy but it is a continent and hours of searching away.

HJ

[Flap 5]

I liked Hugmonster's reply the best.