What constitutes a Type Rating?

[hubbs1982]

So I have been reading through that horrendous LASORS document, and I think I understand what is required of me to convert a FAA ATP to JAA ATPL. There are a number of different scenarios depending on the number and type of hours. The scenario that is most likely going to apply to me is the '1500 hours on multi-crew aircraft, type rating, 500 hours on type'. This requires me to complete the 14 written exams, but I would not have to go through the course. It also allows me to either take one skills test on the aircraft on which I am rated, or alternatively a CPL skills test and an IR skills test. Importantly, it does not require the 15 hour IR conversion course.

Anyway, here is the crux of the problem: the FAA doesn't require FOs to have type ratings for domestic flights, and created a SIC type rating that meets the ICAO requirements for international flight. Will this SIC rating be considered valid by the CAA for license conversion purposes?

Thanks

[BelArgUSA]

Hola Hobbs -
xxx
JAR ATPL headache... I fully understand. My sincere condolences to you. It is now well known by all that indeed, in the past, the US/FAA did not issue at type rating to first officers (nor to flight engineers). For them, a type rating was a "captain" endorsement. Today's FAA issue of "SIC" type ratings simply reflects FAA's effort to comply with ICAO requirements. Nothing in today's FAA first officer certification is any different than before. In the old days, that qualification was in the "company files" of the airline or operator. Now, it is printed on the FAA licence/certificate. No change in the training and aptitude tests.
xxx
I have seen many ICAO licences issued by other countries, many of which were labeled ATPL or CPL, and indicated "pilot in command" or "second in command" besides the type rating(s) listed on the document. So, again, the FAA now applies the same procedure.
xxx
A few years ago, I got a JAR ATPL (for 747 captain position) issued to me on the basis (and simulator test) of my FAA ATPL with 747 rating. It did say "captain 747" on the licence issued. I doubt they would have issued a "captain 747 rating" if I had been a first officer.
xxx
Is a "PIC" or a "SIC" type rating any different. To me, the aircraft technical knowledge/test is same. The training is same, except that (in the 747) a first officer did not have to show proficiency in the simulator to fly a "2 engines OUT approach" or an "emergency descent", and I admit, I was somewhat more lenient for the standards of demonstration of the maneuvers flown by a first officer, as compared to a captain's type rating qualification.
xxx
Do not tell me that a JAR/fATPL "300 hours aviation wonder" getting a 737 type rating is as proficient as a 5000 hours 737 skipper, who has 2000 hours on type. Or... pull my leg. As to your FAA "SIC" type rating is as good as any type rating issued to a first officer, or will you qualify to be captain at the onset...?
xxx
Of course - I know JAR is far more superior to FAA standards. How is it possible that EU skies are not closed to USA airlines such as American or United "cowboys" with questionable "quick and dirty" type ratings issued by the FAA - the Friendly Aeronautical Association" flight clubs...? - Evidently, when you have to suffer 14 separate exams to pass your licence, you have to be better. I recall, my own FAA ATPL was a mere 60 questions and took about 2 hours to complete. Surprised I did retire without an accident or airspace violation.
xxx
:E
Good luck to you, and happy contrails

[potkettleblack]

Nice anecdotes as always but did you answer his/her question in all of that?

[BelArgUSA]

Dear Sir -
xxx
Answer appears under -

A few years ago, I got a JAR ATPL (for a 747 captain position) issued to me on the basis of my FAA ATPL/PIC 747. The JAR licence did say Captain 747. I doubt they would have issued a 747 captain rating if I would have been a first officer...
xxx
Obviously, his JAR licence might be issued to limit his TR to first officer.
Is this helping, Sir...?
Suggest you see an optometrist to check your monocle...
xxx
:rolleyes:
Happy contrails

[hubbs1982]

Thanks for the replies.

In you're situation you had a full, PIC TR on your FAA cert and you were issued a JAA ATPL with the TR on it.

What I am asking, is whether the CAA will even recognise my SIC type rating and issue me a JAA ATPL with the TR (and what ever limitations they see fit).

Otherwise, I understand it is possible to take separate CPL skills test and IR skills test in a light twin and have the JAA ATPL issued, but without the TR. This is assuming I meet the 1500 multi crew, TR, 500 on type. Is this correct?

Thanks again

[hubbs1982]

Why do you say it is not worth the effort for a CRJ rating? When you say "just plan on getting a ME CPL IR" do you mean just take the CPL and IR skills test in a light twin and have no rating issued on your ATPL? Or do you have to do the 15hr IR conversion?

Does the 500 hours on type have to be in the airplane or can you include sim time?

Thanks

[hubbs1982]

I'm just a CFI with a few hundred hours, I'm just trying to get an idea of what I am looking at for the future. Hopefully the regionals will start hiring in the next couple of years.

The reason why I was talking about using sim time to count towards the 500 on type, is that I am looking to do the CAE Supporting Crewmember Program, the completion of which would leave me holding a PIC Type on a bizjet and a whole bunch of sim time (and hopefully some time in the AC).

So, if you don't do the skills test in the AC on which you are typed, you have to do the 15hr IR conversion on the light twin?

I was hoping that with a couple of thousand hours on a RJ a european carrier would be interested in paying for the TR conversion. Maybe not...

[q8pilot]

Hi
Question- after reading so many days in the LASORS and JAR-FCL, what’s the difference between valid and current IR and just valid IR?
As my last flight in the B777 was in the end of the 2004 (am still within the 5 years window, and i have all the other requirements , and in total I have 4400 hours JET , and 1500 in the B777 )
Jus the question is what a valid multi-engine Instrument rating (A) ( how many years ) ?
So am trying to transfer my B777 from an ICAO ATPL to my British ATPL ( which was expired )

[Kirks gusset]

If your rating has expired ie. not been revalidated within the last 5 years it can only be renewed by the CAA if its a UK Jar licence, so in practice you do training as required, could include ground school refresher if the tech knowlegde is poor, plus an LST with a TRE, The TRE cannot sign your licence if the rating has expired, all the paperwork goes off to CAA for their consideration

The "IR "is just the rating issued, eg 777 IR, but it is only valid for 12 months (+ a bit to end of month of expiry), so you have to do an LPC every 12 months to use the privileges of the rating.

The issue of your ICAO ATPL and UK ATPL is not of concern as they will issue a UK JAR ATPL if you can demonstrate you meet the requirments, if your 777 rating has expired it may not be included on the UK JAR licence until you do another LPC

SEE STD DOC 43 and FCL 1.25