Flying School vs RAAF

[CottageCookies]

Hello

I was directed here by a friend who said that I should the questions I asked him to the pilots who on this forum.

I'm a mother and have a child who is turning 17 later this year and when the talk of career paths come up, we often have a clear confliction with how he should persue his ambition of becoming a pilot.

I've asked my friends and they seem to agree that a flying career through the RAAF would be the best choice but my son says that the RAAF are for those who have a desire to be a military pilot instead of a civilian pilot (which is what he wants to be).

So, the question that I am asking you would be which career pathway would you say is the most logical in terms of my son's career choice?

I understand the fees that I would need to pay if he undertook flying lessons at Bankstown.

Thank you to all!

[j3pipercub]

Hi,

The two disciplines (Civillian and Military) are very very different and are like vegemite (You either love it or hate it). I went the civilian route, whereas my brother took the military route. We occassionally sit down and swap stories and I can tell you from a person who always wanted to fly civilly, the military way of doing things seems quite different to how I was taught and how I would go about things, the initial training side of things especially. Therefore trying to do the military training simply as a cost mitigation technique may be self defeating, as if a person fails the military training, there is not much carry across for prior learning to the civillian side of things, except past the half way mark.

If your son wants to fly civilly, then yes, he is up for quite an expense. There are many good flying schools all over the country-side. If it is convenient, consider schools outside the city and Bankstown as they can be less expensive due to lower fixed cost and fees charged by the aerodrome.

At last count, from scratch to a Commercial Pilot (Commercial means that you can be paid to fly) with an Instrument Rating (allows a pilot to fly in bad weather) the total damage was $70,000 for myself. However that was over 4 years ago, others on here may be able to give you a better idea these days.

My one piece of advice that I can't stress enough is to try if possible, to get your son (if he isn't already) in contact with some pilots in the industry. They may be able to alert him to what he will be in for, especially starting out. I have seen on several occassions freshly qualified Commercial Pilots walk away from flying completely due to not wanting to go and get the first job in another state or out bush for 12 months. But if he is committed to it and loves his flying, it is one of the most rewarding, challenging and enjoyable career choices I can think of (I may be somewhat biased here).

Hope this was of some help.

j3

p.s. I have found in my humble experiences that the young pilots who have had to work to pay for their licenses are less likely to walk away from it all once they are finished as they have had to work very hard for it and not have it paid for.

[Runaway Gun]

Great answer from J3.

Basically, to get through the RAAF pilot training, you need at least 100% commitment. If your son is not that keen on being a military pilot, then he probably wouldn't make it. In fact, I'd doubt he'd make it through the initial interview process.

Going through the civilian process is is no way an easy process either, and of course it suits many people better. It is still very difficult, and what he gets out of it is proportional to the effort he applies - and the process continues to be an uphill struggle, as in any challenging career. The benefit of civilian flying training is that if you get stuck on any aspect of flying training, you can throw money at that lesson and repeat as required until you get it right. The military generally aren't as tolerant of 'sticky points'.

[mcgrath50]

http://www.pprune.org/d-g-general-aviation-questions/329725-raaf-v-airline.html

A post I started ages ago.

I am in Year 12 at the moment. A few pieces of advise (if you don't mind taking it from a youn'un).

Your role as a parent is to guide not push, some of my friends have parents who have pushed them down a certain path they think is better, bottom line, the kid is unhappy because it's not what they are passionate about.

Either career path, you have to be passionate, it's not an easy job, particularly initially. It is better to go the way you want. I have the problem of not knowing WHICH way I want though :P

Put your application in for the RAAF, even if you have no intention of going. Each stage of the process will be valuable when you front for an airline later in life, it costs nothing and it also keeps your options open. Best case scenario is you get 15 hours flying free thanks to the tax payer!

Wish him my luck! Hope to see him in a cockpit one day.

[VH-XXX]

More simply, one is going to cost a lot of money and the other one won't.

If you are funding his aviation career you'll need to allow perhaps atleast $50k (open to suggestion here) minimum until he finds his feet and derives an income from perhaps a charter or instructing job.

With the military option comes a greatly reduced cost, however a return of service obligation, relocation (probably permanent) and many other options.

Worth talking about.....

[4Greens]

You might want to consider a slightly different option....

He could do an aviation degree programme and learn to fly at the same time. If the flying doesnt work out he still has the advantage of the degree to pursue another career. The University of New South Wales can give you details. Have a look at their website.

[Bell_Flyer]

Dear Cottage Cookies,

Firstly, my advice is try to talk your son out of a flying career if you can. Fly if he wants to, as a private pilot, but there are easier ways of making a more lucrative living than flying.

Next, under no circumstances encourage nor pay for him to be a commercial helicopter pilot - private helicopter piloting is fine. It is far, far more expensive than fixed wing flying, especially if he wants an IFR rating. The flying is fun but the pay is, well, generally speaking, far far lower than that of a commercial fixed wing pilot in an airline flying say 767, 737 or 747's.

The other downside of joining the RAAF, as well as those points contributed by other members of this forum, is that he could get shot at, shot down or shot dead. In Afghanistan. In Iraq. Or anywhere else our government might send him to. (Remember your history, ie that our governments stick firmly to the Gallipolli principle - send troops overseas to die under another nation's command for campaigns that cannot be won; like say, Vietnam - but I digress). The upside is obvious but I must say, you only have to die once to make that decision unattractive.

Finally, a wise man once said, "Son, you're going to have to make up your mind about growing up and becoming a pilot. You can't do both". Good luck and I am impressed that as an obviously caring mother, you have joined PPRUNE to seek opinions for your son.

Good Luck.
BF

[The Baron]

Not much difference really, the RAAF is just like one of the smaller flying clubs, only the beer is cheaper...

[DBTW]

Hi Cottage Cookies,

Loads of naysayers and opinion holders out there and I am sure all inputs are valuable.

For what it's worth and in my view, professional flying is an outsanding career. I have been doing it for more than 30 years and I wouldn't swap it.

I started in the military and had a great, fulfilling time with loads of overseas operations in loads of hostile theatres. It was all brilliant stuff and I am really pleased to have had the opportunity.

Now still happily flying commercially, I would advise your son to go boldly in the direction of his dreams and never let a naysayer or pessimist get in his road.

The way the ADF train these days is so commercially equivalent CASA recognise nearly everything they do. If your son is committed to being a pilot, then the military way is more about how much fun you can have in the most advanced machinery available than how much it costs, how risky it is or what you want to do later in life. Yes...it takes commitment, but so does the commercial route.

In the military you get to fly high performance aircraft in a well supervised and structured environment where you are helped to grow professionally throughout your service. Commercially, things can be a little more haphazard and success depends more on who you fall in with, whether you can get a job and what is happening in the economy.

It's a long time since an Australian military aviator died in combat, and yet Bell_Flyer wrote:

(Remember your history, ie that our governments stick firmly to the Gallipolli principle - send troops overseas to die under another nation's command for campaigns that cannot be won; like say, Vietnam - but I digress).

Sounds a bit too pessimistic for me. Is your son a winner or a loser? Be assured, I served in several militaries. Our military has a proud history of success and our Armed Forces are amongst the best in the world.

Neither a commercial nor military route to a career in flying excludes the other. At 17 your son can grow committed. Good on you for worrying, but tell him to get out there and get on with it. If he really is committed, once he starts there'll be no holding him back and he will no longer appreciate your assistance anyway! Give him my regards and best wishes.

[Wizofoz]

CC,

As has been explained, the costs involved in doing a civilian flying qualification are enormous, and result, initially, in being qualified for a low paying job, usually in a remote community.

Perhaps if you impress upon your son the reality that civilian flying will NOT mean flying big jets for an airline for several years, but WILL mean hard work, enormous expense and a fairly menial existence until he gets a break, and that if and when that break occurs has a lot more to do with the world economy than his individual talents and efforts.

My strong advice to you is to not contemplate simply paying for all his training yourself. Explain to him that if he wants to follow the civilian route, there will a roof and three meals waiting for him, but his flying will have to be funded by his own efforts.

That will either prove his motivation towards flying, or put the Military in a whole new light!

I concur with Bell flyer about Choppers- EVERY helicopter pilot I know wishes he had pursued fixed-wing- There simply is NO lucrative Carree in Helos, short of living somewhere very remote flying to oil rigs, which is dangerous, repetitive, and STILL not that well paid.

As to the dangers of Military flying, death in combat is actually a fairly remote possibility, but it is a more dangerous type of flying. I actually joined the RAAF way back, and failed the course. Of the twelve that graduated, two were dead within ten years in military flying accidents.

Edited because my post crossed with DBTW, and I think what he says is all very true. Going the GA route can ALSO be a great deal of fun and lead to terrific personal growth.

[zube]

Mum.

Bell Flyer gives good advise. Anyone who joins any section of the military could have to face someone who tries hard to kill them. Its called war, regional conflict, peacekeeping, etc.

If Military flying excites him and he's prepared to get shot at, go for it.

I remember a bloke I flew with in an airline who's son was lost in an RAAF training flight off NSW. The guy criticised the RAAF publicly for years, obviously tormented by the loss of his son. Very sad, for all involved, but blame allocation didn't bring him back.

[Double Asymmetric]

Am I missing something here?!!!

Hi Cottage Cookies,

don't take this the wrong way, my $0.02 is offered as genuine advice for your son (by the way, it's nice of you to venture here on his behalf)....

I think your son should NOT pursue the military option AT ALL. I say this not because of any issues with the military, but with the motivation of your son as provided by you. You state in your original post that when the topic of going the RAAF route comes up your son says "the RAAF are for those who have a desire to be a military pilot instead of a civilian pilot (which is what he wants to be)."
Now, that's fine that we wants to be a civilian pilot, but he essentially reveals he has NO DESIRE to be a military pilot, it would be (I assume) a means of having his training paid for whilst he works towards being a civil pilot. If this is the case, he will be wasting his time, and the time of recruiting staff who look to weed out that very attitude. If he somehow makes it to course, he is wasting the time of his instructors and is taking the spot that some very keen and genuinely motivated RAAF wannabe should have filled.
The RAAF is not a free training institution for those who want to be airline pilots. The airlines are full of ex-RAAFies who were motivated and did their obligation, and moved on - but that's a different thing entirely.
I have no problems with people joining the RAAF with, perhaps, an eye on a commercial career after they have done their time. As long as they started out in their RAAF career as a dedicated, motivated trainee military pilot who WANT to be in the RAAF above any other type of flying. But if they go in not really, really fired up first and foremost to hook into the military life and flying then they should be somewhere else.

To get through the system and gain your wings (and then have a successful time in the squadrons) you have to be hard working, and extremely motivated to get through the tough times. To be perfectly honest if his motivation is as you say, I bet London to a brick that he will come a cropper at recruiting, or if he does progress, somewhere well before Wings.

[mcgrath50]

Agreed with DA,

BUT doesn't hurt getting him to apply to a) keep his options open but b) and more importantly, get experience with the interview process. Worse that can happen is he gets an offer he turns down.

[YoDawg]

Put your application in for the RAAF, even if you have no intention of going. Each stage of the process will be valuable when you front for an airline later in life, it costs nothing and it also keeps your options open. Best case scenario is you get 15 hours flying free thanks to the tax payer!


I just noticed as I made the above-quote that you claim you're in Year 12. If that's true, then presumably the above is an example what is referred to as Generation Me.

Here's a word they may not have taught you in today's leftward-leaning, soft-ethics, anything-goes school curriculum, McGrath:

INTEGRITY.

The ADF selection process isn't free. Having paid plenty of tax, I'd prefer he didn't go through the process just for the hell of it. Having not (if it's true you're in school) paid any tax, yourself, then I'd prefer you don't go encouraging him to compromise his integrity in addition to wasting my money, by fronting up for a process he has no intention of completing just to gain airline interview experience.

A pilot I know went through the process years ago and secured himself a position on pilots' course. The applicants jump through many hoops and the ones who make the grade are, well, graded according to their perceived chances of success and chosen in that order for the available positions. So along the way, he bumped out one applicant whose ranking was slightly less than his own but whose motivation was most probably infinitely greater. This guy I know quit after about two weeks of OTS, long before the "arduous" bush phase, long before Combat Survival, long before he was even fitted out for a nice green flying suit. He quit because he wanted to go back to be with his girlfriend and fly as a civvie.

Fifteen free hours of training and then quit? Is that worth the scorn of everyone around you in that circle who will know what you did and why? Is that worth your own self-respect? Is integrity that cheap these days?

Ah, the impetuousness of youth. McGrath if you think you're the first to think of this "move", you are indeed a young fool.

CottageCookies, it's almost a dead-certainty you're pulling ths piss here to start a nice little brou-hahaha and so too, most likely, is McGrath. But on the off-chance someone impressionable is actually reading your thread and wondering about what you're suggesting, please accept my advice to tell your "son" to harden the f*** up, get a job and pay his own way through it.

[mcgrath50]

YoDawg,

Should you not take every opportunity to better yourself, to learn something, to keep your options open?

The RAAF recruitment process is bloody long, you go through ups and downs of motivation because of it, I swear they do that just to TEST your motivation. But also you learn a lot about the services in the time. When I applied I year ago, I was sure I wanted to be a military pilot, but not sure the lifestyle, culture etc. would fit me.

So I put my hat into the ring anyway. As a part of my own research for the interviews, talking with the military personnel at DFR and military personnel I have met through other means, I have realised I would have no problems fitting in. Had I not put in my application I may have left it too late to do it for 2010 or even never found that out.

As mentioned before the worst that can happen is I realise I would hate to be in the RAAF and get some interview experience.

I disagree someone who does this is lacking integrity, it's his future. Getting or missing the RAAF is a life changing thing, at least 13 years of your life are committed to it. Keep your options open. It is smart planning for your future.

[Konev]

Not much difference really, the RAAF is just like one of the smaller flying clubs, only the beer is cheaper...

dont forget the blowing stuff up part.

[aveng]

The other downside of joining the RAAF, as well as those points contributed by other members of this forum, is that he could get shot at, shot down or shot dead. In Afghanistan. In Iraq. Or anywhere else our government might send him to.

The thing that the RAAF will give your son is the best maintained aircraft, more that can be said for some of the dodgy GA outfits out there. They dont go flying without a 100% serviceable aircraft - after all there is multiple aircraft to pick from on the flight line.

Another consideration is the social aspect of the people in the airforce - people outside the forces just don't get it! Mates for life.:ok:

[Bell_Flyer]

The thing that the RAAF will give your son is the best maintained aircraft, more that can be said for some of the dodgy GA outfits out there. They dont go flying without a 100% serviceable aircraft - after all there is multiple aircraft to pick from on the flight line.

Maybe. Ask the pilots of Caribous how much oil these aircrafts leak. They like to call this an 'anti corrosion' feature. Even Harley Davidson mechanics fix their leaks. Why don't the uniforms?

I was in Forrest when 3 Sea Kings flew in for Jet A1. They didn't shut down on the ground when they re-fuelled. There's a good reason for this. The crew told me it might not start again.

Then, there's the small matter of the Kanimbla helo split pin incorrectly fitted by maintenance staff, but let's not go there.

Too many other examples to list, but I think you know where I am coming from.

Another consideration is the social aspect of the people in the airforce - people outside the forces just don't get it! Mates for life

Perhaps, but, there's a famous sound bite from a movie when Lieutenant Caffey says, "You don't need to wear a patch on your arm to have honour".

[Flogged Horse]

If your son does not want to be part of the military then you should not force him. Military service is not for those that want a cheap ride to the airlines as there is far more involved in military aviation than showing up and doing your 9 - 5. Military aviation while conducted as safe as the next professional operation, has inherent dangers that take it off the option card for many. The training is however second to none and generally speaking the equipment listed in his or her log book by the end of the first 500 hours is something that many (read airlines) will look fondly on. Make him do his research as this will only have postive results for his future career whatever that may be. Best of luck!

FH

[A37575]

As long as they started out in their RAAF career as a dedicated, motivated trainee military pilot who WANT to be in the RAAF above any other type of flying. But if they go in not really, really fired up first and foremost to hook into the military life and flying then they should be somewhere else

I'll go along with that. Damned nearly got scrubbed during first three months of RAAF pilot training because I was lousy at Maths but while the rest of my course whooped it up at weekends I had no choice but get stuck into the books. It eventually paid off and the 18 years I had as a RAAF pilot were some of the happiest days of my life.

[Arm out the window]

Bell_Flyer,

Admittedly the bit about not going flying with less than 100% serviceable aircraft is stretching it a bit, but the telling difference with military maintenance is the focus on flying safety from the management point of view.

Not saying that some GA owner/managers don't have a similar outlook, but when it's coming directly out of their pocket, the pressure can certainly be brought to bear on the pilots (either directly or in other subtle ways) to press on with unserviceable aircraft.

In normal peacetime ops, military crews are strongly encouraged to make safety calls when required, and censured if they don't.
I would imagine the Sea Kings were hot refuelling in accordance with their approved procedures for a good reason.
Caribous have been on the list for retirement for probably half their 45 year service life, and have you ever seen a big radial that doesn't leak oil? The maintainers have done an excellent job over the years.
Certainly there are mistakes made, as in the split pin tragedy you refer to, but the ethos is there to put safety first rather than the almighty dollar.

The focus is on getting the job done, but if there's a safety issue, aircrews know they can U/S an aircraft when they have to without being hauled over the coals for doing so, which is a damn sight better than what a lot of GA pilots have to put up with.

Re the helicopter scene, the big bucks may not be there as much as they are for airline pilots, but how many fixed wing guys get there? There's usually a lot more RW jobs around every time I look in the Australian, and the IFR multi work's becoming more prevalent, and better paid, compared with your average single engine day VFR gig.

[Buck Rogers]

If it a flying career you want stay away from the Military as they only have aircraft to look at not fly ...A fast jet pilot only gets 120 hours a year .I don't think that is a good choice for the effort!!

[Cloud Basher]

Buck Rogers,
No idea if you are in the RAAF but that is horse Sh*t. Most F/A-18 line drivers I know (and that is most of them!) get around double that a year and except for the flight to a different base/country for an exercise, all of it is quality flying. 200-220 odd hours a year in a Hornet means our drivers are some of the best in the world at what they do.

Cheers
CB

[B190]

Some of the Fling wing drivers I have met in OAKB are on 20K US a month, did not think that was under paid. Not doing military bits either.

[Blogsey]

They dont go flying without a 100% serviceable aircraftHahaha, thanks for the laugh. In 4500hrs RAAF flying I'm confident I NEVER went flying in a 100% serviceable aircraft......:ok: (But I think your sentiment is correct)

[Trojan1981]

WRT the Sea King accident. It was the culmination of entrenched problems within the ADF (partucularly 817Sqn) that led not only to the accident but also, separately, the fatal results. It was problems of culture, lack of quality leadership, pressure from senoir officers to maintain the flying schedule, junior maint. pers doing as they were directed (as opposed to the safest choice) and finally a maintenance error under arduous conditions.
This pattern has repeated itself in both military and civil aviation circles over the years. Aviation comes with pressures and risks regardless of which side of the fence you sit.

Mil aviation offers greater risks, such as being shot at. Although thats rare. Training carries greater risks and mil aircraft are not generally built with the same redundancies as civil aircraft. Remember, in the Army and Navy flying does not come first the way it does in the RAAF. But that said, it can be great fun and you will make friends for life. I would never trade the experiences I had while serving.:ok:
I miss the freedom of flying with the military, particularly overseas. But I grew tired of the military beaurocracy.

Civilian flying is very different. I hope it gets better after GA. The people are also very different. I still have that sense of purpose and would like to fly for RFDS eventually. I must admit, I am sick of turning up to find my aircraft u/s. I refuse to take it every time and cop a bit of stick for it but I would rather be an out of work pilot than dead. I wait while the fault is fixed and then fly. You just have to stand up for yourself, be reasonable but don't do anything that could come back to bite you just because the operator doesn't want to shell out to have problems fixed.

Overall, I would say a taste of flying in the ADF is a good thing if your son is that way inclined, but the RAAF IMPS is very long.

[DBTW]

Good on you CB! I was hoping such facts would come out.

No idea if you are in the RAAF but that is horse Sh*t. Most F/A-18 line drivers I know (and that is most of them!) get around double that a year and except for the flight to a different base/country for an exercise, all of it is quality flying. 200-220 odd hours a year in a Hornet means our drivers are some of the best in the world at what they do.

Very small point to add to CB's comment which may or may not be relevant. Pilots often compare flying rates Military versus Civil, with Civil hours chasers often leading by several magnitudes. As CB says, 200-220 hours per year in a Fighter is a good effort, and those hours are nearly always exciting and varied. It is probably fair to say that in the Military no hour is the same as any other. Having flown both Military and Civil, I make the simple observation that Civil hours are frequently the same hour flown over and over again, and that can be less exciting. Not meant as a criticism or as a debate starter, just a view from an old bloke directed at a youngster who sounds like he is considering his options.

If you want to be a pilot, go for it! There are plenty of paths to follow and they will all have pro's and cons.

[j3pipercub]

Military vs civil

guys you are forgetting one thing. The young man in question has already made up his mind, therefore the Military vs Civil argument is kind of redundant. The only person trying to change his mind is his mother, and I believe that is from a cost cutting point of view.

Just getting in before the thread descends into a bull-blown slanging match

j3

[Buck Rogers]

Blogsey ..How many F111 were servicable at any one Given time ....

[Flogged Horse]

How many F-111's were knowingly flown unservicable (eliminating legal CFU's from the debate)? Looks like you're struggling to state truthful facts in this thread Buck???

Civil or military there will always be pressures to take US's airborne either from a commercial or mission driven angle. Professional pilots from either side manage these effectively and safely. Enough said.

I agree with j3pipercub here, sounds like mum is pushing son into blues. In these financial times, I would be hesitant to fork out the big bucks too. Still there is nothing like 'living the dream'. Just have to do it for the right reasons. :ok:

FH

[Buck Rogers]

Flogged horse tell me where I said unservicable flights ...

[Bell_Flyer]

Arm out the window,

Your points are good ones and I agree with most of them except the helo job prospects. Aveng needed some perspective - that's all. But he got that in spades after his post.

The key point to Cottage Cookies is this. If her son chooses a career (as a stepping stone) that includes shooting people for a living - and you are required to do that if you get posted into a war zone, then someday, someone is going to shoot back, perhaps accurately. It reads like her son doesn't want to be a uniform from the post. The ADF appears not to care too much for its returned troops from a psychological standpoint - if "4 Corners" on last Monday night is to be believed.

Dangerous stuff, all in all, just to avoid paying civilian flying school fees. This probably explains why almost no Prime Minister, Defence Minister or Cabinet Minister has his son/daughter fighting, being maimed, suffering Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc. Come to think of it, I can't say I have read any sons/daughters of CEOs of ASX 100 companies fighting and dying in a war zone recently.

It is this that must be weighed up as well when deciding to join the uniforms as a stepping stone.

I think it was Tom Hanks who said, "I'm glad I didn't have to fight in any war. I'm glad I didn't have to pick up a gun. I'm glad I didn't get killed or kill somebody. I hope my kids enjoy the same lack of manhood".

[flyhigh744]

what about prince harry and william?

[A37575]

Not saying that some GA owner/managers don't have a similar outlook, but when it's coming directly out of their pocket, the pressure can certainly be brought to bear on the pilots (either directly or in other subtle ways) to press on with unserviceable aircraft.



Never a truer word was spoken....

[Mr Bomb]

I think it was Tom Hanks who said, "I'm glad I didn't have to fight in any war. I'm glad I didn't have to pick up a gun. I'm glad I didn't get killed or kill somebody. I hope my kids enjoy the same lack of manhood". And the only reason he can say that is better men (and women) than himself have chosen to do so... He may hope that for his son, well I hope there are still plenty of better women and men than him and his son out there to make sure his son doesn't have to.

Thread drift... I love it how people hold up celebrities as bastions of whats right and wrong or as hero's. They are nothing of the sort and their opinion is no more or less valid than anyone elses. They just get the publicity.

I just get all wound up when people start quoting ACTORS (yes people who pretend to be someone else for a living), as if their opinion is more valid than anyone elses.

Sorry, back to the thread at hand.

Cheers
Mr B

Edited to add, I do not mean to say that people who chose not to serve in the military as being less of a person than someone who does, but I would hope that most would not be as arrogant about it as Tom Hanks appears in that quote (it is probably out of context anyway!) And I know most Australians (and most western nations civilians) that I know are thankful to those who do serve, and would not put a negative connotation on it, as does the above quote in my not-so-humble opinion.

[Trojan1981]

And the only reason he can say that is better men (and women) than himself have chosen to do so... He may hope that for his son, well I hope there are still plenty of better women and men than him and his son out there to make sure his son doesn't have to.


I can't agree with you Mr Bomb. Those serving in the military are not inherently better people. I have met people (in my former Infantry Bn) who don't want to know a peaceful life and after deployments have left the Army to become mercenaries (sorry, "Private Security Operatives"). Neo Nazis among them. Although the majority are good people. Many wars are fought for reasons other than the protection of ones own national borders, interests and people. We have been, and continue to be, the aggressor in many wars and may even be making this country less safe in doing so.

I have deployed, as a soldier and an aircrewman with the Australian Army. I don't find what Tom Hanks says offensive, especially since he is speaking from an American perspective.

Thread drift anyway...

[trashie]

CC

You have been provided with some sound advice from some of the posts. From the point of view of someone who was trained by the RAAF and for the past 15 years has been an observer of the civilian training system, my only advice is to ensure you pick the right school with the right aircraft and the right instructor. Generally speaking you get what you pay for.

RAAF instructors have generally all flown operationally and have significant experience before completing an arduous training regime. In flying schools many instructors are inexperienced and are using the instructional time to gain their own hours and experience to move on. While there are some excellent civilian instructors the percentage of average and inexperienced ones ones is high. This is normally due to the minimum pay they receive that reduces their motivation to do more than is necessary in mentoring their trainees.

Check out the flying school thoroughly, meet the instructors to ensure your son is comfortable with them. Ask the instructors why they are instructing what their experience is and what motivates them. What is the ground school like? Is it self learning or is their mentoring and formal lecturing.

Others may offer other advice and their may already be other threads on this forum on this subject.

Best wishes for your son in what is generally a rewarding experience once the hard yards have been had.