How Far Must One Carry Out Emergency Procedures?

[SASless]

An Italian court has sentenced pilots and airline management personnel to jail for a fatal ditching in the sea off Palermo. The Captain was convicted after he was shown to have transferred control to his Co-pilot then began to pray rather than complete all of the emergency procedures.

Does this set a precedent for International Law whereby Pilots can be held accountable for their actions during in-flight emergencies that result in fatalities?


Reports: Praying pilot convicted in Italy crash


ROME – A pilot who began praying instead of enacting emergency measures before a Tunisian charter flight plummeted into the sea and killed 16 people off Sicily in 2005 was convicted of manslaughter, news reports said Tuesday.

The plane's black box showed that the Tunisian pilot, Chefik Gharbi, lost control of the situation, ceded command of the plane to his co-pilot and began praying, the ANSA news agency reported.

Gharbi and his co-pilot, who was also convicted in the case, were among 23 people who survived the crash. Both were sentenced to 10 years in prison.

Prosecutors contended that the pair had failed to put emergency measures in place.

Italian aviation authorities said the ATR-72 went down Aug. 6, 2005 after running out of fuel, because the fuel gauge on the plane was the wrong model and did not show that the fuel tanks were nearly empty.

Palermo Judge Vittorio Anania also blamed human error and convicted Gharbi and co-pilot Ali Kebaier of manslaughter, Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera and other reports said.

The reports said that another five people, including airline executives, were convicted and received lesser sentences, while two people were acquitted.

The ruling was handed down Monday and defense lawyers plan to appeal, the reports said.

Gharbi "is convinced that he did all he could to save as many lives as possible," his defense lawyer, Francesca Coppi, was quoted as saying by Corriere della Sera. "Faced with danger, he evoked his God just like anyone of us would do."

Coppi and other lawyers could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

The Tuninter charter, flying from the Adriatic port of Bari to the Tunisian resort of Djerba, crashed into choppy waters off Sicily's northern coast. The pilot had hoped to make an emergency landing in Palermo, but ditched in the sea before he could make it to land after the second engine failed.

[heliski22]

Bearing what you say in mind, Spin, I know a pilot in England who, when teaching a person of a particular religious persuasion the finer points of Engine Off Landings, found himself staying very close to the controls during the latter stages of the exercise. If, during the critical phase of flare and level, the student considered things were not going so well, he would simply let go the controls and, as Francesca Coppi says, "evoke his God"!

However much he may have convinced himself of the support of his God in his own mind, I think we can safely say it was the Instructor Pilot who put the aircraft on the ground after he "ceded command of the aircraft".

I do wonder about the mental processing there.

[flyer43]

A supposedly true story from about 400 years ago, whilst I was undergoing IF training. A certain instructor was well known for his pedanticity! (I don't know what it means either!) Emergency checks had to be done exactly right using the checklist after the immediate actions had been completed. Nothing wrong there you may say!
However, during one training trip, one engine actually did quit. The "student" pilot completed the immediate actions then called for the checklist, whereupon he got the reply "xyz the checklist, this is a real emergency!" ..........

Back to the story at hand......
Surely, if the commander had lost control of the situation and ceded control of the aircraft to the co-pilot, he had done the right things. Aren't we told to take control from a handling pilot when he or she suffers any form of incapacitation?
That being the case, it was all the co-jo's fault from then on........ ??

Ready, aim, fire........

[Whirlygig]

Dare I say it? Oh go on, I will - it's "pedantry". :}

Cheers

Whirls

[choppergod]

It's quite simple, you conduct all procedures, being normal or emergency, until you are either on the ground having a cup of tea or in a pine box waiting to be buried or burnt.

Any pilot who intends to do anything differrent is bound by duty, reposibility and law to throw his/ her license in the bin and get another job which has nothing to do with aviation.

This has nothing to do with race or religion and everything to do with being a competent and profesional pilot.

[traumajunkie]

It's quite simple, you conduct all procedures, being normal or emergency, until you are either on the ground having a cup of tea or in a pine box waiting to be buried or burnt.This has nothing to do with race or religion and everything to do with being a competent and profesional pilot. In complete agreement; very well said.

[SASless]

Until you are faced with imminent death in an extreme situation.....how do you know how you will perform? It is far different sitting in the tea room talking about it.....and being sat there face to face with that tall quiet chap in black with the huge curved blade thing over his shoulder!

If you feel you have reached the end....and you think nothing you can do will alter the outcome....at what point can you try to get out that final confession, plea, or act of contrition?

Heaven knows most helicopter pilots have more skeletons in their closet than Imelda Marcos had Buster Browns!

[jab]

SASless, you have been there and most of us who have been flying these things for more than a few years have confronted that situation at some stage or another. In the few hair raising experiences that spring to mind I have fought and flown it all the way to the ground or carried on flying even after I consciously acknowledged that I was about to die.

To do anything else is unthinkable to me and if my co-pilot started praying instead of helping to fly, I would make sure he met his maker, even if we survived the crash. I could understand praying if none of the controls are working and it is an uncontrollable fall but as long as there is life there is hope. In a helpless fall I think I would be using some choice Anglo-Saxon while bending the controls but I hope I never find out.

[griffothefog]

Well said lads,

I've been there a couple of times and on neither occasion did I have time to think about f**ck all else but self preservation and survival.......Passengers, God, old nick and any other thoughts were squeezed out the crack of my ars* during the flare :eek:

I agree that if the sticks are bending but nowt is happening, you might have a few seconds to utter your mantra... anymore time than that and I would light a fag :E

[heli-cal]

The tip that I was given was "Wait till you're about 3 feet off the deck, then jump........ You can jump 3 feet can't you?"

[flyer43]

Whirls. Thanks for the english lesson. My only excuse is that I come from Sarfend-on-sea. :bored:

[Non-PC Plod]

Teaching CRM in a multi-cultural training establishment in Italy, this is a goldmine..!!!! Anyone know if there is an accident report in English anywhere? Thanks.

[Phil77]

Am I missing something? Why was the co-pilot convicted? Because he was not able to ditch the aircraft and read the checklist at the same time?

[B Sousa]

Does this set a precedent for International Law whereby Pilots can be held accountable for their actions during in-flight emergencies that result in fatalities?


Most likely means have your sh1t together before you takeoff, then if an emergency comes about, handle it.
On the other side of the coin, it was Italy, someone had to go away, and these two were the easiest to find.

[flyer43]

Am I missing something? Why was the co-pilot convicted?
Joking aside, this is a really deplorable situation, particularly for the co-pilot who was handed an extremely curved ball, most likely when any chance of salvation had long since passed. If what the papers say is true about the co-pilot being prosecuted as well, this would be a travesty of justice as it would seem from the news article that he was handed the problem while the commander had already given up being an active part of the team.

As some have said, it is very easy to say what you think you would do if the chips were really down, but none of us knows how we would react in the last moments of a situation which we already knew was beyond our ability to do anything further to salvage. However, this thread does warrant the question regarding the impact of mixed cultural backgrounds on the flight deck. Does CRM really cover this?

In my case, if I decided to atone for my sins in what I believed to be my last moments on this globe, there would most likely be a large bolt of lightning to ensure that the job was complete! :E

[traumajunkie]

With quite a bit of respect to SASless & the many PPRuNers more experienced in such situations than I, my pre-aviation background is a medical one, where I can tell you this sort of behaviour is unacceptable. One does not pray, meditate, or otherwise squander one's talents while lives bleed out onto the floor, no matter how worried one is for one's own safety or that of one's patients.

I will grant that there are many differences between the two professions, and that desperation is a powerful influence, but I must believe that as a medical professional or a pilot, I am obligated to use what skills I have to the benefit of those who have placed themselves in my care, until I am physically unable to continue doing so or the pt/pax are dead. Without wishing to sound too callous, anyone can pray; you are there to fly the aircraft.

All that said, what I most appreciated about CG's comments was just this:
This has nothing to do with race or religionJumping up at 3' AGL & other joking aside, to me it seems unprofessional to abandon one's duties midair for any reason. Comments regarding "Their God" imply to me that I should/would not be equally furious with the pilot for praying to "My God" or anyone else's, which is quite certainly not the case.

[flyer43]

While I concur with what you are saying in general, there is a huge difference to the individual in dealing with a dying patient and seeing the world racing up to meet you when all you have done appears to take no effect. If your patient appears to be passing away, despite all that you are trying to do for him/her, continuing to the bitter end isn't going to kill you and, if you are traumatised by the outcome, you can make peace with your maker at your convenience. That isn't the case when something terminal is occuring in the air.
I am certain, at least while sitting here on my comfortable sofa & typing this note, that I would fight all the way to the ground in the hope that something would eventually work and save us all. From the few very difficult situations I have found myself in at various times during my flying career, I know that I have indeed fought all the way and won, albeit at the expense of the aircraft, but nobody has been hurt on my watch.... (A dangerous statement to make in public!)
Having said that, and not knowing at what real point the commander gave up, I am in no way defending his actions. He should have done everything in his power to save the lives of everybody on board.
My question for you is "Why should the co-pilot be convicted when he was merely passed the big problem"? There may, of course, be something missing from the new report about the actions taken by the co-pilot from then on, but at face value, it certainly looks like he was well and truly shafted!

F43

[SASless]

TJ,

You seem to miss the point.....this isn't about the other guy meeting his maker....but rather you....the scalpel holder getting the chop! That I suggest changes one's perspective drastically.

I recall one experience in a Simulator.....it being new and having a few gremlins running amok in the software....we encountered an ugly situation where the Sim decided to go ape and gave some very odd reactions as it tried to thrash itself to death. I can recall forgetting I was in a Sim....having taken the cyclic in both hands and doing everything I could to regain control of what seemed to be a erratically spinning vertically diving suicide bent helicopter.

I distinctly remember thinking to myself...."Come On! You SOB...fly!" as we smacked the virtual Earth. I don't know for sure what I would do in real life but that should be a pretty good indicator....I'll be fighting it all the way down.

As someone else as stated...my calling upon the Almighty in a final bid for forgiveness is probably going to take longer for his decision than I will have time to wait for his answer as my list of things to beg forgiveness for will take a while for that final audit.

[traumajunkie]

Agreed. As I say, I have no experience (so far :uhoh:) of the sort of inflight emergency that would cause someone to decide that praying would be more effective than any control inputs. And of course there are large differences between the two fields, mainly the disparity in personal safety as opposed to those in one's care. I would argue that this depends significantly on where you practice medicine -- Sudan being a somewhat more hazardous workplace than Surrey -- but as you say, in aviation your life is more often inextricably tied to that of your passengers.

As for the copilot, I've reread the article and can find no indication of why he was convicted. If he took command of the aircraft and tried to enact emergency procedures he should be commended for keeping his wits and pitied for the position his captain placed him in, but certainly not sentenced to 10 years. The only thing I can think of is that the article does not explicitly state that he took the controls, only that the captain "ceded command." Perhaps the copilot followed suit? Seems quite thin but I can't find any other good reason to convict or even prosecute him.

SASless,
I think I'm aware of the point, and as above I agree that there are significant differences. I would only suggest that the line between your safety & your patients' safety in medicine is not always so distinct when working outside the comfort of the developed world. Otherwise in accord, there's no way I could ever squeeze in that last-seconds confession in time. ;)

[chester2005]

My very humble opinion, having faced a life extinguishing situation myself, is quite simply, regardless of your faith or lack of it,

Life is for living, live it until you are dead.
It is too precious to give up at any point, for any reason.

Flyer43
Agreed,the question in my mind is, why has the co-pilot been convicted.

Sasless
I wholeheartedly agree, unless it was a fall from the edge of the atmosphere i wouldn't have enough time either!!!

Chester:ok:

[jab]

The co-pilot obviously saved the day and he should not be punished for the actions of the captain, and it is that individual I am particularly disgusted with. I think it is safe to say we all learned to fly in singles and that included forced landings without power. Despite the lack of reassuring noise from the engines, the plane was perfectly flyable and the captain could have carried out a textbook ditching ala Sully. He had plenty of time to send out a Mayday and position report. In my opinion the captain deserves everything he got and it stinks that the co-pilot is being dragged down with him.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Not being a religious man myself I have to confess to have "Prayed" once during an "Emergency".

Acting as co-jo for a really good P1 I accidently managed to chuck an entire cup of coffee down the centre console of a 332L, moments later, smoke. flames and a nasty sinking feeling in the pit of my tummy.

I looked down at the sea, and it was boiling. I knew that if the situation was to run the full course, people would croak trying to get out.

This was easily the most scared and useless I have ever felt in my life. I had caused it. ME. No-one else.

The P1 took it really well and kicked my arse into gear getting the electrics isolated and a very quite, non-stabilised 120 miles back to ABZ ensued and I remember quitely asking the almighty that if we do go in, and he has a quota, please let it be me so I do not have to suffer the responsibility for some-one elses demise for the rest of my natural.

Its easy when fate deals you a ****ty hand and you just get on with it. Training kicks in, experience helps and confidence insulates you from that awful feeling.

I think the very best example of this was the Hudson Bay guy. He must have had at least some doubt as to the success of the outcome, but he just focused and got on with the job.

Word to the wise...keep the lid on the coffee cup till its at your mouth!!!

DB

[Torquetalk]

YouTube - They were doing their job as professionals till the end (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZSGw51ZkmA&feature=related)

TT

[Phil77]

Googled the accident to find a different report and found that our friends over in the italian forum of PPRuNe are discussing the accident too; my italian is a bit rusty :rolleyes: so I tried to use yahoo babelfish to read it... more or less successful. http://www.pprune.org/italian-forum/367081-atr72-sentenza-per-incidente-di-palermo-2005-a.html

Some news agency suggests that they where convicted because they ditched instead of trying to land in Palermo. In the youtube video the pilot stated that at 4,000 ft he was unable to reach the airport, supposedly 9 miles away.

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BTW.: to me it sounds that nobody gave up and they where checking items off the checklist until they crashed.
I suppose that if you put me in the situation, one or two expletives will be heard on the CVR too!

[Torquetalk]

20 miles from 4,000ft. Unable.

Praying instead of following procedures and flying? :suspect:

TT

[traumajunkie]

Thanks TT & Phil, hadn't seen that. I have to agree that they both seem to be actively aviating, navigating, communicating until the end. Despite what sound like repeated attempts by Palermo ATC to vector them toward the airport they seem to have realised in a timely fashion that a ditching was inevitable, picked a suitable spot & requested assistance. Can't find anywhere that could be reasonably described as unprofessional, much less "ceding command."

[Gomer Pylot]

As the estimable Bob Hoover said, "If a crash is inevitable, fly it as far into the crash as you can", or something very close to that. If you're moved to pray, do it while you're flying, and secondary to the flying. Personally, I've never felt the need for prayer. :rolleyes:

[griffothefog]

I have been assured by my mum that I fought like buggery to get into this world...Therefore I am sure eveyone fight's like hell to stay in it.

In the most dire of emergencies where there is very little you can change, I think there are two types of reactions.

1.You either keep fighting to stay in this world , in which case you will be so busy bending the sticks you wont notice the impact. :ok:

2. You follow the Captains lead from "that accident" and treat it just like a bungee jump..... Total blind faith that all will be ok at the bottom. :ooh: