ISM issues

[treboryelk]

I know i can have my grumpy moments, but how would you handle this:

cathay crew is waiting in LAX immigration queue; of the cockpit crew only the SO remains as all others are based.

being the only one of our crew heading for hotel, i ask if it would be a problem to join them in the bus to hotel. i am cx crew, just off reserve to do a freighter flight.

the SO and I get to the bus maybe 5 mins after the last cabin crew (as last through immigration)......to be met by the shrieking ISM..."why can't you just hurry up".....and then when on the bus "why did you agree to letting him along, he could have got another bus"

i was pretty disgusted by this having often sat waiting for the cabin crew when in outports for a lot longer than 5 minutes without a word being said. i was also not too enamoured by how she had the audacity to treat a member of her flights operating crew, the SO, without the presence of more senior guys.

just wondering how you would have handled this scenario?

[Basil]

Either ascribe it to a spot ;) of PMT or have a quiet word at hotel pointing out your comment re waiting for CC and, perhaps, adding "OIC so you've been learning from BA CC."

BA CC reading: only a few like that ;)
Rainboe: sorry about the smileys - buy you a beer next time I see you.:ok:

[raven11]

I would have asked for her name, and then told her that I will be reporting her embarrassing and unprofessional behaviour to the Chief Pilot to follow up with ISD. I would then have sat in my seat, faced the front, and let her sweat.

My letter to the CP would say exactly what you said in your post.

Her behaviour was completely unacceptable and she should not have been allowed to get away with it.

[Kitsune]

And then enjoy your sealed bottles of water for the rest of your career....:cool:

[Harbour Dweller]

the SO and I get to the bus maybe 5 mins after the last cabin crew (as last through immigration)......to be met by the shrieking ISM..."why can't you just hurry up".....and then when on the bus "why did you agree to letting him along, he could have got another bus"Reverse this situation with the SO first on the bus & he starts "shrieking" at the ISM when she finally turns up to the transport. How fast do you think she could speed dial back to HK to report him?

I've lost count of how many times I have sat on the crew bus for over 20mins waiting for cabin crew to arrive.

raven11 is spot on.. stand your ground & report her for acting in an unprofessional manner. She certainly would have reported the SO if the situation were reversed.

[the reo]

How about write all the facts down that you can remember. That way you can defend any complaints should you not hear about them for 6 months etc.
Then once that is done, get on with life. ie don't rat it to the company. we have too many us against them fights already.
I am not even slightly saying that I think the ISM actions are justified, however if you want some lattitude/tolerance one day, it might be appropriate to give them some occasionally too.
End of an LA remember they get tired too.
P.s. I too have sat in the bus waiting over 30 mins for CC to clear customs etc. it's very frustrating.

[4 driver]

ISD should really do something about her. She makes junior Japanese girls cry almost every flight......

[Phlap1]

Go back into the building sometime while waiting for
the CC to appear at the bus.You will often find them on
the payphones ordering take-out to the hotel and/or
organising their social life.

[badairsucker]

You will often find them on
the payphones ordering take-out to the hotel and/or
organising their social life.


Agreed, many times this has happened. Once saw a skipper tear some of the girls a new Ar@ehole when he found out what they were doing. By the time we got to the hotel it was to late for us to go out and eat due the most of the kitchens closing in LA. But at least the girls had their Thai food waiting for them....Bless them.

[CodyBlade]

Thypoon Annie strikes again!

Can some one pls post the top ten list here:

1.
2...



Be prepared.

[Basil]

Alternatively, try the freighter.
You'll be in the hotel bar before a pax crew are off the ship :ok:

[broadband circuit]

Alternatively, try the freighter.

I'd love to, if they paid me the full package, instead of "freighter scales".

Do "freighter scales" still even exist since the demise of the FACA?

[CXChildLabour]

That is why I keep the ranking list in my own folder, when there is no other senior flight crew I AM the ranking commander so you can shut up and go back to clean your toilet.

[ACMS]

True, but on the other hand I just recently had the cabin crew invite me to join them for the Thai food as well. We weren't held up as they ordered on their own mobiles whilst on the bus. The Thai food on the other hand arrived late and not as per the order!!!

So, remember that not all the cabin crew are nasty little so and so's.

[8163852]

hahahaha
"M.M"

[treboryelk]

yep, there are some good ones out there.....but still no need to publicly berate one of our less experienced bretheren.

having retorted with a comment that suggested in all the times i had gone to LA, not once had i ever heard anyone complain overtly about cabin crew being late to the bus. not sure it was too cool to then tell her that "there is not a chance i am going to spend another second in this bus with the atmosphere you have created"...so got off....

the fact that they ended up waiting for nothing, which normally i would have concerned myself with, didnt even register. you hear stories of those who keep a black book for of those who have been trouble along the way.....if i was to have a "not a chance in hell getting my jump seat list" i think this lass would be the first entry.

[Frogman1484]

I now make sure that I'm the last one on the bus. I now tell the girls when we leave (in a friendly manner) that if I find one doing duty free shopping that is delaying the bus, they will be catching a cab to the hotel.

Now I have no problem with long delays on the bus. :ok:

[sisyphos]

The ISM was wrong, of course. I am not suggesting the majority of us is responsible for that, BUT :

imho, the general poor relationship ( nonexistent that is) between pilots and hosties has a lot to do with the typical " old school" cathay culture still supported by some. I never understood those colleagues who gave the girls sh$t when they made little mistakes ( like passing on beverages the wrong way e.g.) and later on in the flight complained about lack of social crew life. :hmm:

Reporting somebody should really be saved for extreme cases, let's not have an even more hostile atmosphere than what we already have. ( having said that, I do not know that particular ISM and can't say if she is indeed an extreme case/ has a history)

[treboryelk]

with you to a degree.....but i normally find that most guys treat the rest of the crew with total respect and courtesy....

admittedly there are some ogres out there....but wouldn't expect a small number of arseholes to be the root cause of the them and us that exists here.

there will be no reporting......i could have quite happily let the whole thing go and not bring it up......but would do the same for anyone being unfairly taken to task by a crew-member.

[CRWCRW]

Ahhh, Masako. You tell a story like this and crew (cabin and cockpit) have this one name on the tip of their tongue!

[FlexibleResponse]

If you look after your ISM, she'll go to hell and back again to look after you.

Edit...Perhaps I could re-phrase my previous comment to make it clearer. A happy crew is a direct reflection of the leadership qualities of the Captain...and vise versa.

[PanZa-Lead]

" the general poor relationship ( nonexistent that is) between pilots and hosties has a lot to do with the typical " old school" cathay culture still supported by "

what a crock! The relationships between the cockpit crew and the cabin crew was far better years ago when I joined. Ask any ISM or SP.

[preset]

Edit...Perhaps I could re-phrase my previous comment to make it clearer. A happy crew is a direct reflection of the leadership qualities of the Captain...and vise versa.

There is absolutely no doubt about that except for the one ISM already mentioned.

[FlexibleResponse]

There is always the possibility of a problem-child and I accept that I may be corrected on my generalised comments!

[hongkongfooey]

A good CC says " good morning Captain "................
A great CC says " Captain, its morning "

Its the subtle little differences :ok:

[CodyBlade]

Which are worst Singaporeans or Malaysians?

Anyone to look out for?

The one mentioned above is Darth Vader in disguise.

[4 driver]

There must be a site that CX cabin crew use to rant about their issues. Anyone know what it is???

[sinkingship]

Try ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? • Index page (http://forum.hkfa.net/)

[hekokimushi]

hotel kilo fox alpha is not the only one.

there is one specifically for CX made/run/maintained by CX FA in chinese.
domain is "CX's logo's nickname in chinese"crew.net

lots of stuff there. famous ISM, most always differentiate their pay compared to ours, and worst of it all why they have to serve us.... its very ridiculous.

[mooney59]

''CX's logo's nickname in chinese''

any hints?

[wongsuzie]

Quote: ''I always try to apply CRM and extend open invitations to the cabin crew to come to the flight deck for take off and landing when the loads are light. You would be surprised at the amount of times we are told "No thanks''

Lets turn that around: would you accept the offer to come back to observe the hosties working in the galley/cabin?

You see, it's a question of priorties and instrests.Don't take it personally.

Next: 15 hrs block, arrive Lax, All we want is food and rest, not to go out to drink.

Many times an offer to order Thai food on behalf is turned down.

So.. reach hotel, grab food box hit the sack.Once again: priorities.

[jetjockey696]

I cant read CX crew forum in hotel kilo fox alpha.. damn.. any way around it.. so i can read it..any help thanks..

i thought i need some refeshing read..

[CodyBlade]

You didn't miss much,Very mild stuff.

Lots om CPP from wannabes.

Not current.

[wongsuzie]

''to see when we make Cabin calls''

You are kidding right?

''few CC crew that if they come and sit up front with us then they get some hassle (sometimes) from Senior crew.''

Ok when they are there, ask them to reflect on why this is so.

[ACMS]

Wongsuzie............... no, you must be kidding?

ANY opportunity for the cabin crew to come sit in the flight deck SHOULD be taken. I understand there are times you can't.

I just had yet another fantastic trip with the crew, the ISM and 5 CC came out for drinks and we ALL had a good time.

As I've said many many times before, the whole relationship between the Cabin crew and the Cockpit crew comes down to the ISM. End of story full stop.

[naughty johnny]

Rumor has it that Cathay's 1 billion odd dollar loss for the year after hedging and fines were accounted for, actually came from Masako making IDD calls on station managers' cell phones during transits.

Unfortunately though, talking does not equate to exercise............:ok:

[CodyBlade]

''the whole relationship between the Cabin crew and the Cockpit crew comes down to the ISM.''

Unles the capt. wifee is on board!

[Flap10]

wongsuzie,

There was one time where we had a total of 80pax to PEK, i thought this would be a great opportunity to have CC in the cockpit for TO and Lndg. I told the ISM to see if anyone would be interested in sitting on the J/S, she said she would ask around and let me know. She came back and said that no one was interested. The next day I see two of the junior crew having lunch. I join them, and as we chatted, they started asking me about flying and how the view is from the cockpit. With a surprised look I told them that I had asked the ISM to ask the crew about J/S. They replied that the ISM had said nothing and they would have jumped at the opportunity. It was obvious that the ISM was playing lip service. Needless to say the very next day I confronted the ISM, and the two were in J/S for TO and Lndg.

I don't invite CC to the cockpit so they can observe our operation. We have the best seat in the house, and I invite them cause on a beautiful day the view is absolutely magical.:ok::ok:

[414]

I hear some of the CX Toronto based CC enjoy a good boozey night, and get out with the lads. I've heard a couple fellas with stories :D

[ACMS]

mmmmmmmmmmmmm Toronto crew :ok:

The best in the company. :ok:

[OneForTheRoad100]

ACMS... LOL, good opinion on based T/O CC! I agree :ok:

Here's my anonymous post (because I really don't like ratting out my mates, but there ARE some good pilot-crew relationships out there in CX world). Quite the opposite to posts saying CX CC don't know how to have a good time.

Rumour has it one of the T/O hosties who most always has way too much to drink, had a night in the room of one of the pilots... both married, all with kids & apparently nothing happened. Yeah!

GO CX TEAM.

It's happening, just discretely.

[4 driver]

One reason the cabin crew don't socialize with us is because of all the gossip.
Grow up lads....what happens on the road, stays on the road.
As soon as the YTO based crew hear of this thread, there will be no more parties.
Thanks.

[414]

Crickey. Everyone's heard about that, it's not news.

And for all of you who say the CC are just out for money or a passport - you're wrong! This girlee, in particular, loves having a great time with the pilots.... socially & a bit more sometimes. She has a Cdn. passport, lives in a wealthy neighbourhood, successful Asian husband & children. Just loves chasing the white pilot.

So, there. "It's morning Captain" does happen at Cathay, but the culturally sensitive pilots just stay tight-lipped about it. Also supported by a quick survey around where most pilots marry F/A's their second time around. There's some great girls working for Cathay. And some great crew relations, too bad the nasty ISM's ruin it for the majority.

"Rumours" & this thread ruining CC partying with pilots - rubbish! It may even encourage some. As the expression goes "if you can't take the heat, stop riding the pilot".

[sisyphos]

4 driver is right, delete it pls 414.

[414]

I'm cranky old CX guy, who's been around, Sisyphos. And no I don't want to delete that post. It's sayin' it like it is mate, a bit crude, yes.

I've seen the hard-core ISM's who shun the CC for talking to pilots, times are changing. That girliee in question is an ISM - "JC". Knew her when she was moving up the ranks in her red coat. She's a sickening head case.

Really, it's a sport for her to "reel" in and chase the white guys at the top of the CX food chain.

Point is, CX is promoting the "fun" girls now, they still have to snitch on all of their colleagues along the way too. IMHO, JC is a legal disaster waiting to happen. She passes out smashed in bars, hotel lobbies, cabs, pilot's beds. It's only a matter of time until she implicates CX when something happens to her.

I don't cheat on my wife and family.

I think ISM's need to be positive leaders on the plane, and ideally have the ability to socialize across all the ranks.

Should ISM's get smashed & pass out, then find themselves in a private place with one guy? Should ISMs get smashed & pass out in public places while on a layover alone? IMHO, NO Bloody WAY.

Should JC be demoted? Should the cranky ISM be demoted from the first posting in this thread? YES! They're both unprofessional and do nothing for the airline profession or crew relations.

I may put pen to paper and write her up. Enough.

Signed,

Cranky Old Guy (who'll be retired flying bush planes with no politics for a hobby, very soon)

[MACH.88]

WOW! Some people here are wound real tight!

MACH.88:cool:

[wongsuzie]

Ok the touch paper has been lit.

Keep in mind the majority of us just wanna to do our jobs to the best of our abilities and not just go along for the ride [pun intended].

But I notice there are some who just won't take 'no' for an answer.

Btw way ofcourse in a informal, off duty situation the 2 Bcs are going to respond that way.

Suggestion: ask them yourself next time en-route in the bus -problem solved.

''When you visit the flight deck you get to see when we make Cabin calls etc'' Sori still does not compute!

[OneForTheRoad100]

Dear 414. You are cranky.

No need to state the obvious mate! She's building her own reputation, in good time. So, slow down.

Is she screwing single pilots? Who cares.

Does she go after the married pilots that have been away from their wifey too long, are smashed, maybe having a low point with their dame, and are fun guys? Well, that's their business. It takes 2 and she just knows who's door to knock on to increase her scoring odds.

Pilots have a hard lifestyle on the road, and what happens there, really should stay there.

Sounds like she's bringing CC & pilots together to socialize - that's gotta be helping crew relations?!

[the reo]

well this thread is really dissappearing down the spiral of those spoiling for a fight.
You all really need to step back a little.
Both sides could really learn something from watching the others workplace. but just like many other workplaces most can't see that.

But you're missing the point again.
You are flaming a fight between the workers again. turn your anger and thinking to what the management are up to. we need each other and need to stop bitching to mummy (the company), otherwise when we finishing our silly little fight you'll discover that mummy took our pocket money and chocolate away while we were fighting with each other.
:ugh:

[Don with the Wind]

Grassing the poor girl up isn't going to help anyone. You all realise she is probably alcohol dependant. She probably beats herself up every morning when she wakes up in some guys bed - with a stonking hangover. And she sounds like fun. Why not take her under your wings, so to speak, look out for her, guide her away from one last martini for the road.

Look after each other ladies and gentlemen. The in-fighting gets you nowhere.

[HotDog]

Why not take her under your wings, so to speak, look out for her, guide her away from one last martini for the road.


Right on! Guide her back to your room and suggest a nightcap!:E

[babydolphin]

those women think they run the company! they are all bitches!!

[treboryelk]

what a shame......a simple question on how to handle an isolated ISM incident ends up in true FH style.

should have expected it i suppose!

[SeldomFixit]

which branch of management is babydolphin from ? talk about baiting :ugh:

[And Then]

Gee some hung up contributions.

I had a great night in Shanghai recently. Myself and the Senior Purser spent the evening together. A bottle of champagne in the bath, a super man pill for me and a few hours later in-room dining. Very discrete of course. It is such a buzz to wake up with one of the crew. Watch them get ready for work. The Hong Kong ladies take an hour to shower and do their make up and the company provides a room with glass petitions into the bathroom.

Living the dream !

[boocs]

And Then, I thought this was just 'Standard' for a KA overnight......

[finelady1966]

If i was the ISM, I would be more understanding than that. There are very few of them who are just NASTY to anyone.

[CodyBlade]

The other day over the PA during taxi the ISM yapping ''and please take all you belongings with you otherwise the crew will distribute among themselves''

Is this type of adhoc prose allowed?

The cabin reacted with derision.As whole flight she was yapping over the PA too much.

[Yeager]

To many Catahy pilots with no f@cking balls.. Its so easy to bi@tch and morn on the FD and give the AoA **** and everybody else **** but not standing up and do something about it is symptomnomious (f@cked up spelling) with way to many of you.. Sad, sad, sad.but there you go, thats what you get.. The CX cabin crew have got the the pants on boyz :ok:

[Steve the Pirate]

@Yeager

Your entire post is symptomnomious of you having had a few too many "Yeager" bombs last night. Continue like that and it will affect your legendary eyesight.... :)

STP

[Will fly for Cash]

OMG, someone at CX is actually making an attempt at humor??? Someone alert ISD!! She needs to be sacked immediatly!!

[Yeager]

STP,

Snappy come back :ok:

But no, quite serious mate. := Prove me wrong, when was the last time the P group managed to stand up to anything?

[Liam Gallagher]

Finelady1966,

Fine thread resurrection.

Yeager,

I stand up to take a 'P'.... Does that count?

[CodyBlade]

Cmd looking out from left seat and saying ''I can see the ramp jumping on his bag..' [ofloaded pax] now that's humor..and defused an agitated cabin.

ISM who likes the sound of her voice too much is not..

[Maid Day]

Why is everyone so chicken ****. Let's just make a list and pass it around, then forward the major issues to mngt. These people get away with this because nobody takes action. I'll start with a name:
EMILY YU - MANIPULATOR, CAUCASIAN PILOT HATER, GAME STARTER, REPORT AFTER REPORT ON CABIN CREW AND SECOND OFFICERS, SPEAKS TO THE CHINESE PILOT ABOUT THE CAUCASIAN PILOT BEHAVIOR - INVENTS AND ISSUE AND MAKES DRAMA, DOES NOT SERVE THE FLIGHT DECK AT ALL COSTS, MAKES THE GIRLS CRY, ANGERS PASSENGERS, HAS A MENTAL DISORDER THAT EVEN A CHILD COULD RECOGNIZE. But she still goes on the roster, continuing the same BS over and over, because nobody does anything. FOR ONE, why is the ISM the only one filling out performance reports, why are the Cockpit Crew not filling out performance reports as well, as we, as TRUE professionals on duty with expertise on this job, see the strengths and weaknesses where these ISM's do not. And why can't a junior Cabin Crew member simply state that Emily YU is a manipulating and anxiety causing leader, leading to a poor and panic like service for the high paying passengers? A calm leader always has control, it's basic business.

[betpump5]

20 years old and already so bitter :)

But I agree with you

[crwjerk]

A bit out of your depth in the big jet hey?? You have no reason to demand anything from the cabin crew, maybe this is why she has this attitude towards you. Be nice and you might be surprised one day!!

[AnAmusedReader]

Actually Maid Day, all CC can report on their ISM's and do so. The ISM can read all the comments on a monthly basis and unless the CC identifies him/herself, the ISM does not know who made the report. ISD can find out as two ISM's that I know have been called into the office to explain some of the reports made on them. Not Emily unfortunately.

[wongsuzie]

Shouldn't name names on a open forum.

Com'on grow up, everywhere there are good guys and bad guys.