BMI-The New Low Cost,No-Frills Airline

[euroboy]

An article in todays Sunday Business newspaper, says that BMI will signal plans for a radical restructing aimed at turning it into a low-cost airline.
Ried will tell a conference at the Institute of Economic Affairs that full-service carriers need to slash fares and costs to survive. He will call for working pactices in aviation to be revolutionised.

He points out that main-line industry has outmoded labour practices and low productivity. That applies particularly to pilot hours.

The article does continue. But I`m not sure how to set up a direct link to the article.

[euroboy]

Story found on ananova.com
www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_446723.html?menu= (http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_446723.html?menu=)

[sabenapilot]

What do you think for instance of 75hrs a month? Does that sound low?
Yes of course it does, but you should not forget this does only account for the time the engines are actually turning. Don't forget things before or after a flight nor anything in between is counted in all this.
A crew flying for 70hrs a month on regular medium haul routes (like those at BMI for instance) is on duty for at least twice as long (so around 150hrs). This relates to a weekly duty time of about 38hrs which is a regular working week for people with a 'normal' job. Add to this the fact that flight crews also work on weekend and night shifts, during holidays on very irregular times and have generally less days-off then other people and you see how totally detatched from reality this proposal for a huge increase is.

It's not that I am against any increase, as long as they keep pace with the productivity level in day to day other jobs as well. I feel however that since hardly any manager ever really experienced the kind of live flight crews have, they have problems to deduct from their own abstract duty rules the kind of professional life flight crews have.

Ok, nobody will drop dead from flying 80hrs/month iso 70, but one must admit that there must be a limit somewhere.
I have flown for a charter airline (resulting in very bussy duties during summer holidays) and I can assure you that with for instance 95hrs/month (doesn't sound too high, does it?) you have to sign in at the airport every single day from 7 in the morning till late at night with not more then 3 or 4 days off! It is immediately clear that you can do this one or two months, but that nobody can physically keep pace with it for much longer.

[The Prisoner]

As far as I remember, Midland always been a low cost airline, in as much as M Bish has always made a heafty packet, at the (in)expense of his loyal lambs. Time to give it a miss guys, there are greener, or should I say more golden pastures out there. Fly the flag?

[Fred Elliot]

Prisoner,

Do please tell where? My impression is that there aren't any pilots' jobs on offer at the moment. If you know differently, I'd love, I say I'd love to know.

Whilst it's nice to pay the mortgage regularly, this bunch of @rseholes aren't worth working for, given a choice. :mad:

[swizzle stick]

I think your subject for this is slightly off as the person in the interview clearly states that they have no intention of going down the no-frills route a la easyJet & go. What it clearly does state is that they are looking at lowering their cost base.

Low cost does not equal no frills!

It's All A Swizz......


(edit for typo)

[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: swizzle stick ]

[flypastpastfast]

I think this is part of an overall industry push to cut costs, it happens in most industries when their are more staff than jobs, unfortunately.

Bit of a mis leading title to this thread, as they have said quite explicitly that they DO NOT WISH TO BECOME A NO-FRILLS LOW COST AIRLINE LIKE EASYJET OR GO.

The industry is having a bad time, cost cutting is inevitable. But don't forget the talk will be to investors, so it's pretty much what they need (want?) to hear.

Swizzle, I was typing as you posted, I'm not copying (honest).

Fred, you made me chuckle.

[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: flypastpastfast ]

[Bash]

Sounds a bit like bmir doesn't it?

[euroboy]

The title in Sunday Business is

BMI to reinvent itself as low-cost, no-frills airline

the articles between ananova and the newspaper have a few differences

"Reid is aiming to emulate carriers such as Ryanair and Easyjet by intensifying services on profitable short haul routes, driving down employment costs and using planes for longer."

BMI profitable routes are GLA, EDI, DUB, AMS.
Frequently would rise on these routes. Unprofitable routes cut.
A removal of BMI services to the US from MAN was ruled out.

Sorry I don`t know how to get the newpaper article on to pprune other that type the whole thing. Its more detailed (and longer) in the paper than ananova.

[Son Of Piltdown]

Hmmm. Well, you can't do 'low cost' from a hub because the fixed costs are too great. E.G. turnround times, airborne holding, real estate and Union agreements that are, contractually, longstanding. It is also difficult to emulate the punctuality of quieter airfields.

If you want to do low cost then it must be important to compete at the outset rather than adust the business plan in the economic downturn of the cycle.

So, whats it all about?

Its difficult to cut a profit when people don't fly after a terrorist scare. So lets aggressively cut costs.

How?

Well, get the whole company behind you with inspirational management and a cast iron deal that will give employees a share of the profits when the business turns around.

Likely?

No.

Why?

Because this company suffers from remote management and some appalling labour relations which will make it nigh on impossible to carry the staff with the change.

[BoeingBoy]

From Yahoo business news;

- BMI British Midland Airways has denied that there are any plans to reinvent the airline as a low-cost operator such as easyJet and Ryanair.


The Sunday Business newspaper had reported that group Chief Executive Austin Reid would signal the move at a conference on Monday, building up profitable routes to places like Amsterdam, Dublin and Glasgow at the expense of other routes.


In an interview with the paper Reid said: "With the low-cost industry banging the drum about 10 pound fares, there is something inherently wrong about someone charging 550 pound return to Zurich. What has got to change is all related to a change in the cost base."


However, a spokeswoman for the airline said on Sunday that Reid's comments had been misinterpreted. She said the review was part of a restructuring announced back in July to look at reducing costs.


"We are not relaunching ourselves as a low cost carrier," she said. "We are looking at our cost base in terms of airport costs, pilot costs and aircraft costs so we can offer more competitive prices."


In October BMI was forced to cut flights and slash jobs because of falling demand for air travel in the wake of the attacks on the U.S. in September.


The spokeswoman said the airline had witnessed more and more business traffic turning to economy and their aim was to compete more effectively for that business.

[thegirth]

Does cost cutting include dumping the pilot's agreement for service, not allowing them to request a day off to fall on a day that they have a wedding or birthday to attend, cutting days off a month by 3 days, stopping the block window roster protection?
Stopping the final salary pension also?

Things will get better, sure, but when they do, how long to fight for these lifestyle agreements to get given back? 8 years again? And that was just for 1 day off!

Other jobs will be advertised in time, consider them.

[ 12 November 2001: Message edited by: thegirth ]

[nitefiter]

tolipanebas
75hrs a month blocks hmm nice, there are fo,s in EMA that go to bed at night dreaming of that amount of flying,about 35hrs is a good month!! Under utilisation springs quickly to mind.

[fast cruiser]

Not sure what to make of this at the moment, might be a blessing in disguise.

What happens to the Star Alliance and also to the Long Haul, are we going to be a low cost Long Haul airline!!!!

As ref 35 hr month, I dont even fly that many hrs a month, back to the winter of 1999, F!!K All flying for F/O's on the Fokker Fleet I suspect.

[sabenapilot]

As I have said guys, it sure is nice to have a job and all what comes with it, but too much is too much you see! I remember that when i first had a job I said to meself: hey, I can fly 70 hrs this month, this is really good for my logbook. However, I quickly found out that it is not so good for my health...
A lot of companies prefer to have their flight crews fly up to or even more then the maximum allowed monthly flight hours iso looking for extra guys (and girls), because it is cheaper. They prefer paying some overtime iso spending 30,000 euro on a new type rating.

[jongar]

Was just confirmed on Bloomberg that BMI will not be a nofrill airline. To be honest after this weekend I am non plussed. I have flown as SLF for 2 years everytime in Business. This weekend I met up with some friends in Cannes, flying to Nice on Friday morning and coming back on Sunday morning. I got an exit seat (row 9) and the pasta meal was better than the scones and bagels I have been eating for so long. I paid 118 pounds, less than half of what i would pay for C, and I had more legroom.

I would suggest that BA and BMI start beng nice to each other. BA doesnt want the local and europe network. Both have their hands full with easyjet and co, it would be a natrual progession for BMI to fill seats supplyng passengers from the regons for LHR. Heck all it would really take is the signng up of other arlines into the FF program (JAL, AA, Cathay, Quantus)

[Gaza]

From the bmi web site.

bmi CEO says UK airlines will need to reinvent themselves


bmi CEO Austin Reid has told delegates at the Institute of Economic Affairs Ninth Annual Conference in London that airlines will need to reinvent themselves by examining closely the financial models on which they operate.

Austin Reid said:

“For the past 2 months in particular the whole of the world’s airline industry has been looking carefully at its future and how it can operate successfully.

“Success will come through stronger competition facilitated by reduced levels of regulation. By reducing costs airline operators will create environments where they can prosper. In particular close examination is needed in costs relating to labour, aeroplane manufacturers and airports. Success will also be brought about by improved sales distribution channels, productivity and network alliances.

“bmi remains and will continue to remain a full service airline and we have no intention to become a budget carrier. We pride ourselves on the quality of our service.

“However, it is vital that if we are to survive in the current climate we have to continually examine the cost of the operation as a whole. We will be applying low cost principles to our business, both long and short haul, as we see this as the way forward for the UK, and indeed, global airline industry.”

[Stagnation Point]

V50 sorry mate but there are no ewes in QANTAS, and bmi and BA are in different alliances so it is unlikely that they would cooperate on any regional deals in teh near future. As far as the food goes it is a bit hit or miss, well mostly miss, and the company pay a fortune for it.

bmir don't have any life style parts in the MOU so we can be flogged to death if need be. Double the productivity of the FO's would mean some of them flying 10 hours a month.

P and FE do you guys work for bmi or are you going into production on a new soap/comedy program.


Floggings will continue until moral improves.

[Arkroyal]

Stag Point, sorry mate, but there's no apostrophe in FOs :D

Me? I'm saving up for my next uniform and prof. check! :eek:

[Unwell_Raptor]

"Stag Point, sorry mate, but there's no apostrophe in FOs"

Not even if it denotes an abbreviation?


:eek:

[RAFAT]

Out of interest, could I ask why bmi Regional's fleet of Embraers stand idle at weekends, well certainly at LBA anyway.

[Arkroyal]

Unwell,

Er..... No. Not that it's any big deal, as it was just a bit of gentle ribbing, as I think I know Stag.

Try Apostophe Society (http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/)

[jongar]

Whether you are part of on alliance or another is in no way related to commercial survical or prosperity. BA have made the case that flying as a regional airline is unprofitable. BMI only have princibly domestic/eu routes. They would make a usefull partner to BA, bearing in mind that they do not compete on any of BA's profitable routes. I think it could prove a very interesting exersice. BMI already provide the service to VS's, Iceland and Gulf Air. I am not saying that BMI customers would earn milage on BA flights, but BA clients would earn milage on BMI flights, allowing BA to strenghten its Long-Haul network.

Of cause I would be just as happy to see BA go out of business, but thats for entirely different reasons.

Up the Virgins

[Orangewing]

erm, why would anyone possibly want to see our national flag carrier go out of business??? We would all suffer (indirectly, maybe) if BA went down, and given the current state of our industry it is, I feel, an entirely inappropriate comment.

[overstress]

Orangewing: just ignore V50, he specialises in comments wishing his (fellow? - I doubt it) pilots out of a job.

[Arkroyal]

Overstress says:

'Always check the Member No:Posts ratio!'

Be nice to. Where has the posts tally gone? :D

[jongar]

V50 is just another piece of SLF, flying in those high yield seats, who grew tired of BA expoiting its dominant position at LHR and rather like the look of the VS cabin crew.

Up the grinning jumper, down with the civil service.

[Magnus Picus]

So by definition, making pilots work for more than 75 flying hours per month qualifies you for the title "no-frills airline."
As a First Officer with BA, I'm pleasantly surprised that my 75-85 hours average per month qualify me to stand proud next to Easy Jet and Ryanair pilots.

That's short haul BTW....
:eek:

[Capt Homesick]

It's worth remembering that, in the UK at least, if you average more than 75 hours per month, you will exceed the legal maximum for the year of 900. Ok, so more than 75 will probably be ok, as you'll have leave for some of the year (for the moment, at least!) but that doesn't leave a lot of flex in the system for stadnby cover, adhoc flights, etc...

[Jambo Buana]

BMI pay poorly and make you work hard already, don't they? So if they want to create a low fares type airline you should all be in for a pay rise. They will expect more flexibility out of you to justify that pay rise of course. Apart from paying the mortgage why do you guys work for Midland, I really don't understand your logic. Low fares airlines pay more, have just as good job security and no BS from management. You know where you stand. All the Midland guys I have seen coming through our front door have chickened out in the end. Smell the coffee.

[PaulDeGearup]

Most folks would agree that 75 -80 hours flying per month is an absolute bargain; we'd all have that if we could, it's the duty hours that go along with that which really spoil the pie.

If, to get that sort of flt time, you are doing say, 20 long sectors with minimal messing around with a stable roster it isnt anywhere nearly as fatiguing as 80 or 90 short sectors and all the messing around that goes with that.

Equally, if you are spending a great deal of time shuttling around either as a pax or in a taxi, or hanging about waiting to fly between sectors or a positioner it all adds to the pain factor.

The managers need to examine their performances and look at ways of reducing watse as a first run at optimising productivity.

Also if you want to cut the cost base why not trim the back office staff rather than the front line; sounds just like what the military did. Get rid of the frontline but keep the blanket stackers and bean counters.

Puts soapbox away.

[ 19 November 2001: Message edited by: PaulDeGearup ]

[GlamGran]

My Old Man's salary has just been dinged by 15% this weekend

That should help!

:mad:

[PaulDeGearup]

Monday night, Tuesday morning.

be here, be square!

[Arkroyal]

Glamgran

Really sorry about that.

Does this mean you'll be too poor to buy 'The Big Issue' from the 109 who are taking a 100% pay cut. (Not forgetting the 55 taking a 33% hit)

'First take the plank out of thine own eye'

[GlamGran]

Arkroyal

Of course I'll buy a Big Issue off them!

But then I've had a cut in the old housekeeping and what with the price of gin set to rise it won't be on a regular basis. Tescos gin.....YUK!

Still keep smiling as the Old Man is hoping to get early retirement, that's if they ever bother to reply to his letters. Don't know what I'll do with the grumpy old sod under my feet all day.

Back to the sink!

GG :confused: