MPL Alpha Aviation UAE - CAUTION!

[airbusbatics]

For those that have seen the ad here on this site regarding the Multicrew Pilot Licence program with Alpha Aviation Academy (UAE) and might be thinking of joining - a little word of caution:

That same company has been running the same program in the Philippines (Clark) for the past 2 years now... Not one single cadet has graduated yet!

The initial promise was that the course would be done in one year. It's been double that now for the initial batches (think about living expenses, food, lost revenue if you gave up your job for this) and still no light at the end of the tunnel.

This MPL licence thing is still very much in it's beginnings and Alpha have jumped the gun and started offering it to anyone who is willing to part with some cash.

Please understand this: The MPL licence programme can only be done under the auspices of an airline. You MUST be a cadet and sponsored by an airline from day 1 to be able to complete this programme. It will have to be the airline to accept you and channel you through Alpha, you cannot be self sponsored. Do not believe any promises from the school that if you get on board now they will eventually find an airline to accept you later. It cannot be done.

ICAO representatives have been in the Philippines at the Clark Institute of Aviation the past month assessing the program as offered by Alpha and were not too pleased. They have informed the students there that whoever was not sponsored by the patronizing airline (Cebu Pacific in this case) would not be issued an MPL licence. It was not how ICAO had devised the MPL programme but rather just an interpretation from the school. So most of the cadets there (self-sponsored) will be left with absolutely no licence. Some of them have been there for 2years now and they will have nothing to show for it except 70 hours of flying on their logbooks. They paid 75,000 USD so those were very expensive flight hours...


For more information on how this program has been conducted so far please refer to the http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/281010-clark-institute-aviation.html thread on the South Asia forum. Post questions to the cadets there to get an idea on what you will be getting into. Try to avoid the same traps and pitfalls that these guys are going through. I will ask some of the cadets to post on this thread so as to share their experiences with you.

The MPL programme has not, so far, been conducted in the most appropriate way by Alpha. There has been a lot of trial and error.
So please make sure you get answers to any and every question you might have regarding this programme from Alpha, from the Sponsoring Airline and from the licence issuing Civil Aviation Authority before you commit your money.

For those of you who do decide to join the programme - Good Luck.

By starting this thread it is only my intent to help you to ensure that luck will not be a required factor in completing the programme.
I have no ill will whatsoever towards Alpha Aviation Academy and I believe that the MPL, if properly conducted as devised by the airlines and ICAO, is/will be a very valid path.

Salesman are salesman, pilots are pilots. I am a pilot.

Just trying to give you a heads up on some hurdles you might encounter as others have encountered with the same organisation.


Airbusbatics

[malirm]

Hi, Thank You for the information, I have some more info to add, AAA UAE is 51% owned by Air Arabia...& as I hear from some sources...Air Arabia will be recruiting from this school Plus providing their cadet pilot program in that school...but nothing is confirmed yet, so we're back to square 1.

I will be starting my flight training at a different place that is DAE Flight Academy & would like to know more about your impression/advice of that Academy!!!

[PHAROH]

& never will be.

[Left Wing]

Alpha Aviation Academy .. in Philippines has tie up Cebu Pacific but no one graduated...:=

[SilveR5]

I'm amazed to hear that all those cadets, or most of them, are after a non-sponsored/self-sponsored MPL training! That school must have exerted all the efforts to market its failing product. I'm not against MPL, but it shouldn't go this way though.

Greedy schools took advantage of the heedless enthusiasm of wannabes, while ICAO officials didn't do much to raise the awareness of the airline-specific/tailored new type of licence. I think this is where the problem lies.

[Che Guevara]

while ICAO officials didn't do much to raise the awareness of the airline-specific/tailored new type of licence. I think this is where the problem lies.I am not sure ICAO is to blame for anything here....

Does ICAO approve training organizations or training programmes?ICAO does not endorse, recognize or approve training organizations or training programmes. The only exception to that rule is the Regional Training Centres delivering the ICAO Aviation Security Training Programme and ICAO Government Safety Inspectors Training Programme.

[SilveR5]

I am not sure ICAO is to blame for anything here....



As far as I know some ICAO Officials have visited that academy and were not so happy with the way things are going over there. May be it's not their legal responsibility, but they still carry some ethical responsibility, since ICAO is the "authority" endorsing and encouraging the MPL concept at first place. I think they are only partially blamed as they could have dealt better with what they've witnessed. Don't you think they should have made themselves very clear about where do they stand from this tryout rats academy?!
Sorry to cadets! no offense.

[Ayla]

As previously stated, ICAO do not do audits of Training Academies. If what you say is true they would have been doing an Audit of the Phillipines CAA (CAAP I think) and it's supervision of training.

Any points that they raise will be findings that apply to the CAAP.

[axialflow]

Anyone notice the Alpha Aviation Acad. banner in the ME forum??

Its advertising the MPL and 40 sectors on the 320. I assume this initial operating experience (40 sectors) is with an agreement with an airline...air arabia?

not a bad deal...

Ax

[LomSeeWak]

ax,
are clark offering time on the a320 as well or its just alfa in sharja?

[axialflow]

Clark has some sort of an agreement with Cebu Pacific...I ASSUME its a conditional hiring agreement, if so the new hire will get line training anyway but how many sectors will depend on the Philippines CAA BUT as mentioned before on this thread, no cadets have graduated yet from Clark.

Ax

[Dualinput]

heard all cadets at Alpha UAE will get 40 sectors with partner airline....can someone confirm if its Air Arabia?

[SilveR5]

Ayla..you are talking about legal responsibility, and I agree with you..but that wasn't my point buddy!:ok:

[netfreak]

Guys,

I've met the guys at Alpha Aviation and the setup is pretty good. I spoke the students as well and they've been guaranteed 40 sectors on the A320. It's no one's guess that its going to be Air Arabia for these sectors.

[malirm]

Thanks for the info...I wanted to join their training program in Sharjah...but, I was really afraid to get into the problems that the Phillipino guys went through at Clark Aviation!!!, so I went to the Ab-Intio training to get the F-ATPL...lets see if they graduate on-time & get a JOB after graduation.

I just heard that MPL carriers would last longer as FOs than that of the F ATPL holders, is that right!

[Wizofoz]

I've met the guys at Alpha Aviation and the setup is pretty good. I spoke the students as well and they've been guaranteed 40 sectors on the A320. It's no one's guess that its going to be Air Arabia for these sectors.

Great- you get 40 sectors in an A320- but do you get a License that will be acceptable to get a JOB????

[SilveR5]

It seems that there are some people who still don't get it. MPL is an Airline-specific training course. The training provider should formulate the training needs of a certain employer into the course offered to the SPONSORED cadets under the general outline of MPL concept. So if some1 gets the MPL in a self-sponsored manner, then he is putting himself in a serious risk as his training was based on the needs of NOBODY!:ugh:

This type of licence is still far away from being an alternative to the fATPL course. And even those few airline companies who have showed the interest in MPL, still didn't take any serious steps forward implementing it as such in the near future. MPL carries lots of critics which make employers up until now suspecious about it. Only few systematic Beta-versions, with limited number of cadets, of the MPL have been tried in few countries (Australia and Denmark I guess).

So unless it is 100% guaranteed that a valid recruitment agreement between Alpha and Air Arabia or any other specific employer is there, then going for that course must be a practice of gambling hobby no more.

malirm, you've done the right thing anyway.

Cheers

[mountaintop2007]

If what Malirm says is true that AAA is 51% owned by Air Arabia (pls confirm anyone because this means this academy is therefore majority owned by Air Arabia, and not the other way around), isn't it logical to assume that Air Arabia is the partner airline for this MPL, which in turn fulfills Airbusbatics' main apprehension for the MPL (must have sponsor from day1)?

as for Clark, i guess no one should take anyone's word in this anonymous forum at face value. that ICAO report should be damning, if it is true, but since CAAP is the one who should be enforcing the CAR, everything has to be cross checked with them guys. last i heard, they are very close to doing Base training and licensing, but this is another rumor that needs to be checked.

[malirm]

I am 100% sure of my info...I spoke with them on the phone + my Avionics Teacher (who worked for Emirates Aviation College) works there after all, he was the one to invite me to that Academy!!!, but no one (even some employees) can say that MPL is the best choice at the moment! (but it will in the near future, say in 2011).

[mountaintop2007]

Has Sharjah CAA (sorry not sure what its name is) included the MPL in its CAR?

[axialflow]

'Has Sharjah CAA (sorry not sure what its name is) included the MPL in its CAR?'

that's the UAE GCAA...the MPL is currently being worked on by them to be implemented in the near future.

Ax

[mountaintop2007]

guys some things are developing over on the philippine islands you may want to check it out in the link provided by Airbusbatics. heard that some 10 cadets have been cleared by CAAP to do base training, and that the partner airline is now making preparations to do it before end April. this is pretty interesting news.

[ford cortina]

I cannot believe I am reading this.... you people are insane.
40 sectors, that's 20 flights, even at 5 hours per flight, that's a whopping 100 hours on type, if you are lucky you might just have got rid of the safety pilot, let alone a line check. You think that can get you a Job??????????????????????? Really. good luck then.
Also the MPL is airline specific, you need to have a job. Are there any written guarantees you will have a job????? I very much doubt this.
I know you will all tell me you know better, well good luck, just trying to give a bit of advice from someone who has been there.
Good flying
FC

[axialflow]

'40 sectors, that's 20 flights, even at 5 hours per flight, that's a whopping 100 hours on type, if you are lucky you might just have got rid of the safety pilot, let alone a line check. You think that can get you a Job??????????????????????? Really. good luck then.'

....why the shock?? why the drama? Sorry but I really don't see any advice in your post. Did you ever hear about a govt. organization called NASA that sent 2 men to the moon, about 40 years ago!!?? :eek: ...without any prior actual time in space...thats a 'whopping' 0 hours on type (read lunar module).

ok, maybe the above is an overkill...but the 40 sectors is highly do-able, as long as the trainees are motivated and the infrastructure is in place...by the way, they fly 40-45 sectors AFTER they get hired by the airline as a second officer. Furthermore, Air Arabia recognizes the MPL program and prefers to other syllabi. This reduction in line training is granted due to the quality of basic training these guys receive from day one. Its nothing to get worried about Cortina, we humans can pull off even higher functions than just flying an A320.

PEACE
Ax

[emiratesson]

alpha aviation UAE is a quiet good place though, i have been to there initial training facility and its quiet good until their new facility gets ready next year. What i really think is that if they keep on with the schedule they'll be alright. Now for UAE nationals at a successful graduation they are garunteed a job, for the expats after graduation they are garunteed an interview, and yes after these 40 sectors they will do other 40 - 45 sectors in the airline which is fair enough! 70 hours on a single engine, though having less actual flying hours at the end but the graduate will have the type rating + lots of knowledge which have been an exchange for the less hours for the multi rating or whatever..thats what they say. After the 70 hours flying the students will sit for nearly 6 months of simulators, FNPT2 and Full level D sim, it is a real good replacement for a normal CPL/IR then you have to fund sim and whatever.. they will have there own facility equipped with these simulators and they are on the way, and the facility is 80% built.. its good over here, the situation in cebu maybe different.. because of managerial issues maybe? but what i say.. they will be fine over here, and it is confirmed that alpha is 51% owned by air arabia here..

[OMDB-PiLoT]

What is the cost of the whole MPL course? I heard its nearly half a million dirhams!!!! :eek:

[SilveR5]

AED 450,000 as tuition fees only! Doesn't include anything other than the course cost :mad:

BTW..I think MPL is supposed to be less costly compared to the conventional fATPL course.. Obviously Alpha aviation is considering the value of the cadets waiting in sand pit!!! :ugh::ugh:

[malirm]

HI Guys, I am scheduelled for the Screening at AAA in Sharjah, I do confirm what emiratesson said, about the expats part...I think that even though you haven't got a guaranteed job...the airline will accept & hire a large number of the expats as they are trained to Air Arabia's standards & have flew with them (while training), in general, I have changed my mind about DAE flight Academy in RAK (f ATPL) & will go for the MPL at Alpha Aviation...where I think that 12 + 40 sectors is a good experience (say about 120 hours minimum on average).

I was told from one of the captains/Instructors in the academy...the point of Air Arabia & Alpha Aviation Academy to open this program is to get a constant supply of QUALITY pilots & get paid for doing so...he also told me that they are providing such a program so that I can get a job at the end, they just don't want to guarantee you the job so that they don't get screwed or Sued !, bytheway...Air Arabia ordered 49 A320s that are going to start the delivery by mid 2010...imagine every 6 weeks a new aircraft arrives & an average of 8 Pilots are needed per aircraft to run it around the month :ok:

[emiratesson]

Hi malirm, i hope you do well on your assessment today, sunday 12th, what you said is absoloutly right, i met you over there last week if you remember, you had a discussion with them, and its good that you've changed your mind, but about the cost, yes it is high to be honest, even themselves say its high..but as i said, if they stick to their schedules for the lessons AND flying, everything will be alright, and there is no chances for delays becasue the sims will be there soon as i heard.

[mountaintop2007]

If i remember correctly in the last APATS 2008 the notion that MPL is a) a cost saver and b) a short cut have been blown away. As a couple of beta tests around the world (and some still in the planning/ budgetting phases) have shown (including the favorite whipping boy of MPL haters around the world, Clark Aviation) the MPL requirements actually could mean training time is comparable to the normal fATPL + Type Rating course, while the cost could actually be higher due to the cost of doing sim training (more hours compared to normal Type Rating) plus the TAGS on the actual aircraft. Time-wise, if any savings will be generated at all it will only amount to a couple of weeks/months, but definitely not years. In terms of money, it is actually going to cost more so Silver5 you are totally inaccurate in your assumption.

So it begs the question: Why would the airlines want to invest in an MPL rather than the conventional route? Because in theory, and I admit this is a potentially explosive idea in this forum, the MPL is supposed to produce First Officers who are better trained in cooperating in a Multi Crew environment managing the systems of a sophisticated aircraft but who is expected to assert to the Captain if something is going wrong. In other words, when MPL was first conceived, it was supposed to address Safety issues especially concerning TEM and MCC/ CRM. Admittedly i may be guilty of oversimplifying the Training issues concerned but my point is that if the MPL is turning out to be a workable alternative to the fATPL, then it can only be good for the industry first in terms of safety, then later on in terms of money and time.

[emiratesson]

quote:

"the MPL is supposed to produce First Officers who are better trained in cooperating in a Multi Crew environment managing the systems of a sophisticated aircraft but who is expected to assert to the Captain if something is going wrong. In other words, when MPL was first conceived, it was supposed to address Safety issues especially concerning TEM and MCC/ CRM. Admittedly i may be guilty of oversimplifying the Training issues concerned but my point is that if the MPL is turning out to be a workable alternative to the fATPL, then it can only be good for the industry first in terms of safety, then later on in terms of money and time"


thats what they concentrate on during training, the simulator sessions will be full of emergency procedures or whatever concerns TEM, MCC and CRM. In my opinion i say that the course is worth the cost, they will do what the have to do to teach..

[OMDB-PiLoT]

So if a person goes for A320 rating after CPL, won't he go through the same "emergency procedures", "MCC environment", etc? Or is it something special for the MPL cadets? I still don't understand the reason to pay such a high amount for a course that doesn't guarantee much. Anyhow, my best wishes to the cadets.

[S.F.L.Y]

I called to get some info regarding type rating and line training opportunities as I'm already fully licensed and experienced. They said that they were not offering anything else than MPL licenses. Since all companies are recruiting with TR and minimum of 500h on type and that old guys are always blaming people paying for their trainings I wonder how corporate guys like me can step-in and compete with cadets/MPLs...

[emiratesson]

S.F.L.Y.. its worth a competition ;)...

I am joining the academy next month, and will go through the courses, until now the guys from the first batch are doing really well.. so lets see how it goes because i think it's good to have an MPL despite of the price...

[mountaintop2007]

i think you need to compare the number of hours in a typical A320 TR program versus the equivalent in the MPL. the MPL supposedly has more hours, thus training is more thorough.

[SilveR5]

With my full respect to all of MPL/Alpha Aviation Enthusiasts, you guys just want to take the risk anyway!

Now consider this:

MPL is an airline-specific training.
In this case it's Air Arabia needs, SOP,s and SEP,s (or at least supposed to be so!).
Some of you are telling that there is no guaranteed job that is formally offered to accepted cadets, but the job is there at the end with Air Arabia.

1. Can you give me just 1 good reason for Air Arabia not giving a job guarantee?

2. If Air Arabia wants MPL cadets, and Alpha Aviation is offering MPL training, and also Alpha Aviation is owned by Air Arabia, then why the hell should the accepted cadets pay for their training? Not even training agreement bond by which the airline will pay back the training money once the trainees are hired?!!!

It's like an airline is telling the its own pilots this "We want you to get the training on this or that. But hey, you are paying for it"! Non-sense!!!

MPL should not be self-sponsored..ever! That's the way it goes with Flybe MPL cadets in UK..that's the way it happened with Sterling Airlines MPL cadets at CAPA Denmark (although the graduated cadets were thrown in the sea having no place in the airline they have trained to work for!!) that's the way it went with Alteon-Boeing cadets from Chinese Airlines in Australia! Simply you should not pay extra money to get a seat in the cockpit. On the contrary, the airline should pay you!

So at these circumstances if I were you, I would go for Alpha Aviation and MPL training...but only if I have half million Derhams and don't know where to spend them. Even with such imaginary situation, the last thing I want to do is to give my money to the people who never reply an enquiry via email.. not after 3 weeks now! This is not a professional attitude at all.

Finally, you should be prepared to the worst scenario. What if you one day want to leave Air Arabia for good and shift to another airline for whatever reason. Who will be hiring you?!:suspect:

It's not MPL world yet, is it?

[LomSeeWak]

Hi Silver,
Good post. I am not convinced with the MPL way either.

But one point! who gives a guarantee???? Do we get a guarantee going by the CPL/ATPL/IR +Type Rating + etc which costs the same as MPL.

I think there are no guarantees in aviation at all!:sad:

[SilveR5]

Yes, you are right. There is no job guarantee to fATPL cadets (unless with few FTO,s worldwide). But on the other hand, this is an issue with MPL.

Because cadets under MPL training will receive a tailored training to fit certain employer, they have been selected by that employer to fit the training they will deliver at first place. You can think of it like an airline company that is selecting some pilots from the pool to train them on a new type or send them for a bridge course. Talking about employers' point of view, there is no such a thing that says "MPL fits all". Unlike fATPL training which is almost standardized and well-defined for both FTO,s and employers.

I'm not against MPL, guys. I just don't think this is the right way to do it.


Cheers

[S.F.L.Y]

Apparently Air Arabia is more interested in low time MPLs than experienced but non type rated fATPLs... and that seems very wrong to me.

[OMDB-PiLoT]

So what happens if Air Arabia doesn't consider the MPL cadets at the end? Where do the students stand at that point and what options do they have? They can apply to any airline seeking A320 pilots, no? I mean all that A320 rating and sector training shouldn't be a waste of time (and money) I think.

[slatch]

I will have to agree with Silver on this one. I have nothing against the MPL concept. I have even visited Clark a few times and talked with students and instructors. But In my opinion the basic flaw is having the student pay for the training. Every student should have a sponser airline paying for most if not all of their training with a contract/bond ageement. One of the big problems with having the students pay is Alpha has every incentive to pass them no matter what. They will be more motivated on profits than turning out a quality pilot. In the end the good pilots that make it through will be tainted because of a few that pass, that shoud not have, and give the school a bad reputation. If the airlines were sponsoring and paying the poor performers would be weeded out along the way. Another issue is something that has been mentioned before. Most of the students that will be able to afford this program will be coming from wealthy upper class families. In my experiance some of these tend to not work as hard as students paying their own way and feel that their passing is a given.

[malirm]

Hi There,

I just wanted to have something(s) cleared out here,

Being in the UAE since birth, I know that there are no Guarantees what so ever...even UAE Nationals can't get that guarantees, but I know another important thing...if they give you a promise & everything goes on well...you will get what you were promised for!!!, this is one of the very old traditions in this Country...:)

In Aviation, connections with the emplyees in the Airline industry is a must, for example, I was in Bahrain for JAR-66 tests & met alots of airline employees from accross the region, some work for Gulf Air, Emirates, Kuwaiti Airlines...etc., I kept some contacts with them...everytime there is a job opening...they contact me first & offer their help throughout the application! & its the same thing in the Flight Ops...trust me, so no matter what, connections are number 1, in parallel to experience.

About coming from a wealthy family or so, I do come from a Kinda wealthy Family & had never thought about studying less or more, I just study, get my stuff done (High grades) & don't even ask for a penny from my parents, I try my best to get my money from my own work !, but this time...its a big one, my parents told me that if I didn't deserve it...they wouldn't even think about it...:cool:

Anyways its a win/win situation, where as a PPRuNer said, add up the costs of Quality Flight Training + MPL + Type Rating + CRM/MCC/FTDs + 12 TOs & Landings + additional 40 sectors (Air Arabia contract...not AAA) + Job Interview with a high % chance of employment...its really worth it ! :ok:

About getting the enough money...I know a doctor at the Age of 37 who left his office & went for flight training in Canada...guess what...he is now working with Air Canada & waiting for his interview for Etihad !, so get a certificate, work for a couple of years (save money) then fly !:ugh:

[SilveR5]

So what happens if Air Arabia doesn't consider the MPL cadets at the end? Where do the students stand at that point and what options do they have? They can apply to any airline seeking A320 pilots, no? I mean all that A320 rating and sector training shouldn't be a waste of time (and money) I think.



The type rating here won't worth a penny! It was gained on MPL basis...so a cadet should obtain the fATPL in order to have his type rating recognized. The employer will look at the type of licence before he looks at a wealth of type ratings.


if they give you a promise & everything goes on well...you will get what you were promised for!!!, this is one of the very old traditions in this Country...http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

Come on, mate..
I can tell you that like many folks, I do love UAE and their traditions too...But do you really mean that a word of mouth might be equal to the written contract? In the airline industry?! In this materialistic world?!! I hope that you are right about this.



Anyways its a win/win situation


Don't you think that Air Arabia is trying not to make few minute commitments to the cadets? I can see Air Arabia winning more than any other party. And if things go wrong in a way or another, they will be getting out of it with very minimal losses. It's the LCC mindset that dominates mate :E



Apparently Air Arabia is more interested in low time MPLs than experienced but non type rated fATPLs... and that seems very wrong to me.


Yeah...I think thet are aiming at building a self-contained business model..and MPL is one aspect of it...Only time will tell how smart they have done it.


The decision you will be making about where and how to get your training is crucial. Let's keep in mind the history of Alpha Aviation back in their country of origin! May be things will be different in Sharjah.. And I hope so...But up until now , it's leaning towards the negative side of the term "may be" I think!

Safety comes first fellows.

[mountaintop2007]

i think there is a grave misunderstanding in the issue of MPL sponsorship which needs to be corrected now lest it propagate further. let's try and be logical here, gentlemen/ ladies. this is a reply to no specific person, but to a few statements i picked up in the thread.

1. MPL should not be self-sponsored..ever!
why would ICAO or the CAA's bother to check who pays the bill??? (pardon my triple question marks, i seem to have picked up this bad habit for drama in this forum :E)

their rightful concern is training -- whether the training in the MPL academy is aligned with the SOP's of the partner airline. who gets to pay for the training (whether airline or the cadet) is none of its business, as it is none of their business to check who pays for your PPL, CPL, IR, fATPL, ME, Instructors rating, or Type Rating. I know of a lot of people who pay for their own CPL all the way to TR: what difference does that have to someone who pays on his own for the MPL?

again and let's put this to rest: airline partnership in the MPL means operational and training partnership, not a financial partnership.

if any body here wants the airline to pick up the tab what he should do is go to the airline and negotiate his way into getting a training package in exchange for a bond of say, 3 years. then if he is successful, he should log on to PPRUNE first thing the following morning and tell all of us here the juicy details so he can help fellow (would be) aviators! ;)

2. Most of the students that will be able to afford this program will be coming from wealthy upper class families. In my experiance some of these tend to not work as hard as students paying their own way and feel that their passing is a given.

this got me a little confused. i thought the point was being raised against students who pay for their training?

in case it is just typo error and the point being made is about rich kids not being diligent students, then i will say this is a general educational problem, not a problem limited to MPL training. All schools, colleges, universities, training programs, need to ensure the lazy guys perform well or get kicked out. so this is not exactly a comment against the MPL, but rather a challenge for the school -- make sure no rich bum thinks he is entitled to get the MPL without performing well, just because he paid big bucks!

3. One of the big problems with having the students pay is Alpha has every incentive to pass them no matter what. They will be more motivated on profits than turning out a quality pilot.

Every business ALWAYS has this dilemma: how to make money without sacrificing quality (which costs a lot). Why make a specific item against a specific company? Isn't it a little naive to think the other training companies offering other courses do not have this challenge? I am not from Alpha, but guys, let's be fair here. This is again obviously not an MPL issue.

4. In the end the good pilots that make it through will be tainted because of a few that pass, that shoud not have, and give the school a bad reputation.

Show me a school where this is not an issue.

5. If the airlines were sponsoring and paying the poor performers would be weeded out along the way.

this statement got me thinking, how exactly is this going to be done? and i am thought that it is assuming since the airlines are more concerned with safety, they will exert more diligence in checking the performance of their sponsored cadets. this is actually a good point.

but I will tell you this: airlines are businesses too, right? aren't they affected by the profit motive, too? if we think everybody who is out to make a profit will sacrifice quality, then that affects everyone, not just the schools.

the point i am trying to make is this: we are talking big bucks here. airlines naturally will be wary, as the school and the families should, too.

every would be cadet needs to take a long hard look at his options, and his risks. however we need to be objective and fair, and not muddle the issues any further.

MPL requires lots of money and good training plus a partner airline. i suggest all the cadets check if all three are present and in good quality before taking the plunge. Ask lots of questions. Look at contracts. DO due diligence studies. In other words, BE RESPONSIBLE STUDENTS starting with an honest to goodness risk assessments.

to malirm and emiratesson, good luck! i hope your studies go well.

[mountaintop2007]

BUT I agree with Silver5 and OMDB in one aspect: Air Arabia's presence at the other end of the pipeline should be the critical piece at the moment, as ICAO and the Danish authorities still can't seem to make up their mind on what to do with the Sterling Airlines experience. All the training of the MPL graduates (who have reportedly proven themselves to be very competent FOs) will be wasted if they cannot get conversion of their MPL training to another airline.

If ICAO approves the conversion, then nothing will prevent airlines from picking up MPL cadets at anytime even those they have not sponsored at the start, so ICAO is reluctant at the moment -- they are deathly afraid of kicking their own butts. I personally think it is all just a matter of time before ICAO approves the conversion....

So, Malirm/ Emiratesson, what exactly have Air Arabia offered? Employment for those who pass or pooling only? If info is not for public consumption, could you PM me? thanks and hoping for your indulgence :)

[SilveR5]

Hi mountaintop2007

I agree with much of what you've said:)
But I've got few things to clarify.


why would ICAO or the CAA's bother to check who pays the bill???


Is that me who said so?:hmm:


But yes..I meant to say this:


1. MPL should not be self-sponsored..ever!



Many times I have explained why. MPL is not a standard training..It differs according to the employer.


and yesssss..the issue of conversion is very critical :ugh:


Guys..there are great PowerPoint presentations that have been constructed by experts in MPL...search them on the inet...or send me PM.:ok:


Cheers

[malirm]

Hi there, thanks for the replies :ok:, hope I do well in the MPL...the point is that I have met some people in Alpha Aviation Academy (go through my previous posts), some of the instructors are Air Arabia Captains ! & others are Air Arabia's Staff working on Simulators & Flight Ops, i.e. in addition to being 51% owned by Air Arabia...Air Arabia is also helping in the set up of the Academy & always monitoring the performance of the Academy.

The Academy's building is still opened temopararly at the cargo terminal until the main building opens in 2010...this shows how Air Arabia is in real need of Pilots to open such a program & offer 40 sectors on the A320 in this early stage...by the way, the UAE GCAA has authorised the MPL program & reccommends it, until this moment, I can say everything is going on well, it was planned since early 2007 :).

About getting the Job, there is NO reason that Air Arabia wouldn't employ you/me or whoever passes the screening at Alpha Aviation Academy then gets trained by Air Arabia's Staff/Simulators & some AAA instructors, I said it before & I'll say it again...the AAA Head of Ground Instructors told me clearly...we don't want to offer a program that doesn't secure you a job, we are offering a program that 'At the end of the day' get you a job on graduation. I am a UAE Expat, so no guarantees for me (Only a Job interview), but emiratesson is a UAE national & he is guaranteed a job in Air Arabia:ok:

[mountaintop2007]

heard MPL cadet graduates of Clark Aviation did circuits with their airline and did very well (but need to confirm this, only saying so as no problems seem to have arisen hehe)! :p

hmmm.... seems MPL as a training concept is proving itself to be workable. this would be good news for AAA UAE i suppose. happy training/ flying to all!

[Zone 220]

Hi All,

Just like to share that 5 Cadets from Clark Aviation did their Base Training yesterday using Cebu Pacific's aircraft A320 at Diosdado Macapagal International Airport (Clark).


Congratulations to those 5 who made it this far! :ok:

[malirm]

If any of the MPL Cadets at Clark Av. is reading this Post, I say...Congrats, we all depend on your performance & the MPL's success depends on you too...:ok:, let us walk tall.

I will be Joining the MPL at Alpha Aviation Academy (UAE) very soon for the MPL, hope I also help in the rise of the MPL to the Surface!

[S.F.L.Y]

Someone posted an interesting question which is no more displayed...
Are the MPLs already approuved by the GCAA ? The licensing section of my last update of the CAR is not refering to MPL. Will GCAA issue such licences?

[malirm]

The GCAA will issue the MPL license at the end of training & successfully fulfilling the ICAO requirements by each cadet (pass tests & fly required sectors).

As far as I know, the GCAA started researching the MPL with ICAO in 2007 & had recognised it in late 2008, & will start issueing it to those cadets who went for the MPL training with a certified school such as Alpha. :ok:


AAA could have started a little earlier, but it waited for the blessings & acceptance from the GCAA, which is a must before offering such a program :)

[SilveR5]

More importantly, the issue should be which airline companies, apart from Air Arabia, approve/recommend the MPL course by Alpha Aviation.

You don't want to get a licence that's recognized by only one company, do you?!

[malirm]

I do know some stuff is going on in alots of Airlines in the Middle-East, where they are all intrested in the MPL & would like to see if it works for real !

I also know that alots of Flight schools in the UAE/Region are researching MPL & how to provide it in the future, I've got some info from pilots & flight instructors in Etihad, Gulf Air...& other A320 Operators (don't know why the A320 though) in the region who are thinking about MPL & researching it with their partner flight schools.

I think that airlines are now looking for High quality airmen with 0 employment costs (tests, interviews, free tickets to HQs & Hotel stay costs for shortlisted applicants) + get some money on the other side (120,000 USD) with no guarantees or ties !!!

Lets Just hope for the best, we are in the real world, nothing can come to you on a plate of gold, you have to risk it...CPL/IR/ME can't help me already even with Type Rating, why not try MPL?

[SilveR5]

I've got some info from pilots & flight instructors in Etihad, Gulf Air...& other A320 Operators (don't know why the A320 though) in the region who are thinking about MPL & researching it with their partner flight schools.


- Didn't those pilots tell you that, if these airlines will ever decide to adopt MPL, each airline has its own scheme and standards for MPL training? Didn't they tell you that your MPL with Air Arabia WILL NOT allow you to work in Etihad or Gulf Air or any other airline unless you do another MPL/fATPL that matches your target airline (because there is no MPL conversion up till now)?

- Didn't they tell you that they will never stop hiring type-rated ATPL pilots, even if their own MPL cadets are ready to fly right here right now??!

- So until their "thinking and researching" is done, going for MPL on your own at this stage means you understand and accept being a tryout cadet!! Believe it or not... They will be happy to know that you want to be so.

& by the way...it's so misleading if you count on pilots and instructors to get you trusted info about such an important matter in big airline companies. This is all about another level of decision makers my friend..!



CPL/IR/ME can't help me already even with Type Rating


Oh really? I hope that there is nothing so bad that render these unsuitable for you! Otherwise, no1 would really say that ATPL+type rating can't help. These are the safest.


Safety comes first, gents!


Cheers

[S.F.L.Y]

I think that airlines are now looking for High quality airmen with 0 employment costs

Do you really think this is compatible? Airlines will soon be looking for pilots able to clean the lavatories to save some more money and it seems they would still have candidates ready to go for it.

I would like to ask you a question: Would you be fine with your mother receiving surgery from a "MPL" surgeon (0 real life experience/0 cost)?

Airlines are simply looking for the most economic alternatives. This doesn't mean it's airworthy and that wannabees have to take everything. Loads of experienced professional pilots are looking for a job, do you think it's technically logical to train brand new pilots to fly airliners?

[malirm]

Going through your posts made me think twice about my decisions, but still...MPL wins!, Its alright for a Middle-Eastern like me to believe in MPL, as General Aviation in this region is too small, i.e. either stay a student all the time or Fly Jets directly, it is hard to get any flight jobs (extra hours) on light aircrafts in this region, even with flight schools as a flight instructor...If I thought about leaving this country/Region to the US or EU or anywhere else...my chances of employment would get just lower & Lower!, as I said, my probabilities & chances are low in the OLD system, why not try the MPL, money is wasted anyways, but time is gained.

Graduating with an MPL with 12 TOs & Landings will only help me to get into air arabia, but getting the other 40 will release me to the whole market in the region & trust me...MPL will win :ok: (I will work in an airline that I can't name at this moment), I didn't believe in MPL for some time at the beginning & was going for a lovely f ATPL training at DAE FA, but changed my mind when I looked at what are my chances of employment with a F ATPL.

SilveR5, I know that you want the best for me & to all the others, I also do care about flying & Flight Training as you do, I have asked some pilots I do know, I asked Flight Ops guys & all sounded positive, but a little dark about the MPL...its NEW, but don't forget that it was set by Pilots, Airlines & ICAO.

Speaking of trusted info, I know these guys from a long time ago & had never faced a problem with their info & expectations!, Airlines will never stop Hiring ATPL-Type rated Pilots as I will be holdong one when I complete the 1500 Flight Hours!, MPL has better Specs against a F-ATPL, I do understand that I don't have any guarantees with Air Arabia, but I do know that Air Arabia has a Pilot shortage at the moment & will have more Pilot shortage by Mid 2010, imagine employing 10 Pilots every 5 weeks!, looking at the Number of MPL cadets (about 16), we will be dissolved into Air Arabia with a matter of few months:ok:

[S.F.L.Y]

Air Arabia has a Pilot shortage at the moment & will have more Pilot shortage by Mid 2010

At the moment Air Arabia is not even replying to experienced ATPL applicants.

[malirm]

Since you went through surgery & Surgeons, you know that to become a doctor/surgeon is a totally different approach, where experience must be high as compared with flying. In my country, you need to spend 5 years in the Medical College before you even learn about surgery.

I do know & Understand that experience in flying (and any field...honestly) is important, specially when flying an aircraft with complex systems & Turbofan engines, thats why MPL was created...it is called the Multi-Crew Pilots License as I will be trained from day one to fly in an airline environment with my Captain/FO & Other crew + other Airline employees AND passengers, I will get the whole info & experience on operating an airliner from the very first day, it isn't about normal ground classes & Flight Circuits, there is much much more included in Sims & other missions that will be assigned to me as I go through the course, don't forget that I must get some experience on the line to get my MPL issued, here Air Arabias position comes!, there must be a Partner airline to help the Cadets to get their flight experience (they have the choice of employing me or..NOT, but no Musts).

About Airlines are looking for the most economic alternatives part, thats true, but this doesn't mean that they will drop the Quality means, thats why MPL...not F-ATPL, by technical means, Oh Yes, I do believe in training from a Zero to a Hero :) using todays technologies & teaching techniques, Note that I am not dealing with Gauges & 1991 Segas, I will be dealing with LCDs & 2009 PS3 :ok:

As everybody says, only time can show you the whole naked truth, lets hope for the best, as I said...its a win/win situation!, watch me doing it here in the UAE & judge me after that :ok:

Just sow your last post, I'll call HR tommorrow & ask them about what happened with the ATPL guys who are sending them emails...just kidding, I think there is a season of recieving emails & then a season for replying to the ONLY successful guys, so if you applied 3 months ago & haven't got a reply, they usually call it a Unsuccessful application or so...I think Emails are meant for applying...not for enquiries!, be optemistic, they would recieve a reply one day...

[SilveR5]

Hi again malirm

I do appreciate your understanding of my views on the matter. I have shared the facts that I know, of which many are from key senior persons working for airline companies in the region and from those who are directly invovled in MPL adoption.

So I have nothing left to say except that you should now focus on your mission and do whatever it takes to excell in your training. The qualities in you as a person and your flying skills are your priorities from now on:ok:

After all, I wish you success.

peace

[malirm]

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate your worries & view on the MPL :), you made me go through alots of things online after your last post, I want to share the info in those links, they really cleared alots of things about the MPL & how it works, and got some questions to be answered by the Flight Academy!...take a look:

ICAO | FLS | FAQs (http://www.icao.int/icao/en/trivia/peltrgFAQ.htm#30)

http://www.icao.int/icao/en/jr/2007/6203_en.pdf , go to page 15/16, 31 & 33

Maybe this one is a little Old... http://mail.beca.be/tulip/position/IFALPA%20Position%20Statement%20MPL.pdf

I didn't want to sound negative in my last post(s), but I truely believe that MPL is defferent & still...didn't take its right in the Aviation industry...hope things go on well...:ok:

[gilderoy lockhart]

Malrim, you beat me to it!

Silver could you provide regulatory reference that supports you statement about employment with a different airline after MPL and IOE.

I found this, which is from CARS and is the same iin JAA FCL, EASA 17B and ICAO PANS TRG.

Approval for a MPL(A) training course shall only be given to a FTO of a CAR-OPS 1 operator or a FTO having a specific approved arrangement with a CAR-OPS 1 operator. The licence shall be restricted to that specified operator until completion of the airline operator’s conversion course in accordance with CAR-OPS 1 Subpart N.



As I read it, Alpha(UAE) are offering 40 Sectors, which is the Operators Conversion Course, on completion the MPL holder can then legally move to another Operator should they want or need to!

[Dualinput]

Gilderoy,
Makes sense! MPL does not have the 40 sector requirement. All it needs is the ‘12 takeoffs and landings’ completion. 40 sectors IS to complete the operator’s conversion course which I believe is being offered by Alpha only.

[S.F.L.Y]

it is called the Multi-Crew Pilots License as I will be trained from day one to fly in an airline environment with my Captain

And what will happen when a MPL captain will be incapacitated?
Passengers are paying their ticket to be flown by professional pilots, not to pay for student pilots' flying lessons. I'm not sure so many people would agree to make concessions on that side. Remember the LH incident with the 250h cadet... that was a very close call. I understand it is exciting for young people to immediately start flying a shiny airbus, that doesn't mean it is the best way...

[malirm]

I really do understand your point of view, where you are saying, Low Houred Cadets must not fly a Commercial Jet...they are not safe...But, bythway ----> Safety is the main reason that the ICAO had made the MPL, so I am pretty sure that such accidents wouldn't occur with a MPL guy...as you will be made aware of such errors while training...:ok:

I just had a heavy lunch here...I barely can speak or type...I'm out now :)

[S.F.L.Y]

Safety is the main reason that the ICAO had made the MPL, so I am pretty sure that such accidents wouldn't occur with a MPL guy...

Where is the difference (in terms of skills) between a cadet and a MPL? it's only a matter of training and licensing. Both of them will have to learn (what is not in the books) as they fly. For me an airline is not a flying school and crews should be experienced enough to handle tough situations. CRM teaches you how to improve the synergy in the cockpit. Having a "trainee" to supervise is an additional workload for the captain, which is the contrary of synergy. I'm sorry if my words irritates you as you seems to be a serious and organized person (more than half of the required qualities for this job!) but I'm only sharing my skeptical point of view. I wish you best of luck in your career and look forward to see you showing us I am wrong :ok:

[Ayla]

SFLY

I take it that you objection is against any low hour ab-initio pilot going straight to the RH seat of an airliner, be it someone with a CPL/IR and a Type Rating or an MPL Licence, they both have similar hours when they start with the airline in either a Simulator or training aircraft!

What is the minimum experience that you think is acceptable and how should someone in the Middle East or Europe for that matter, gain that experience?

Don't inexperienced pilots fly with Training Captains/Very experienced Captains who are able to cope with the demands of inexperience in the RH Seat!

[S.F.L.Y]

Ayla, why do you think airlines are now looking into cadets, MPL and other ab initio programs when experienced pilots are available? Do you seriously think this is for operational reasons? Please don't take the existence of such programs as a good justification, it's purely a matter of cost reduction and "control" over younger inexperienced pilots.

For decades airline pilots had to go through different stages in order to acquire experience before reaching the right seat of an airliner. This can be instruction, aerial work, then corporate turboprops and jets before finally having an substantial background. I personally think it is quite useful to have experienced things like night NDB procedures on uncontrolled airfields with low visibility and icing conditions and it's not time to discover these things when you have 100 paxs behind you. The A320 might be a good machine but certainly not for instruction purposes. You need to "feel" lots of things to get a better experience which you cannot easyly achieve in a 320. Do you think cadets flying DA42 over a flat and sunny country would have the same skills than experienced pilots when it comes to land a 330 on a slipery RWY during a storm? Look at this poor LH cadet with 250h who almost crashed her 320... she is not to be blamed at all while she was probably given an unrealistic goal when it comes to fly with such bad weather.

I have nothing against wannabees, on the contrary, but simply think about the reasons why such programs are now available... to me it is absolutely not for the sake of flight safety or the wannabees themselves but only airlines accountants.

[malirm]

Thanks for the last post, I will try my best to be the best example of a MPL holder, where I am looking forward to change your view rather than speaking about showing you that SFLY is wrong :ok: or even maybe right :).

[mountaintop2007]

last read this thread a couple weeks ago. didn't realize it's been action packed! but i have to admit this is really a good respectful debate, much unlike the other threads in pprune i have been involved in. so kudos to you guys! :D

malirm,
sad truth is some MPL guys already think they are better than CPL/ fATPL graduates. Saying the MPL is better than fATPL, i think is at best an honest intellectual opinion at this point (i am of the same hopeful view too!), but that is all. there is no evidence to buttress this and there won't be until we get the first few MPL pioneers to perform in IOE, and then released to the Line. that is why i am so much interested in Clark's cadets and how they perform in 5J. until that point let's advise the other MPL guys to be humble, and be much like your own position: study hard, perform well. the burden is actually not on the critics to prove MPL wrong. only actual good performance can prove MPL is right, like the way we theorize it will be.

SFLY,
the poor pilot you mentioned is not an MPL cadet so there is no point in using her experience in commenting on the skills of low hour MPL graduates in the future. it simply does not follow that since both this girl and the MPL cadets have low hours, then they will perform in similar fashion. Training is what will differentiate them, as training is what differentiated guys with similar number of hours logged but different Type ratings. Training is the necessary intervention that will ensure the skills requirement will be met.

So I believe this is what we should try and study: whether the training given by AAA UAE is enough to make sure the low hour MPL cadets perform admirably. Unless of course you take the position that it is impossible to improve the skills of low hour pilots to the level required no matter how many hours of training is done. i hope not, but if you do, hey i can live with that, as long as you're not my instructor, and not my Aviation Authority ;) hahaha

i have nothing to add to the discussion until i do my own research first regarding some of the interesting issues raised here. until then...happy flying to all!

[Raptor8]

If ONLY all the hopeful trainees here knew what they were getting themselves into.....:=............with any of the training organizations.

With the GCAA being so naive and eager to promote something neither they or anybody else understands fully, is a risk by itself.

Then to add to the problems within the system such as.......

* Lack of airspace i.e training areas.
* Inabilty (actually an unwillingness) to provide an adequate service by some ATC units, due to the lack of airspace. (All one has to do is glance at the AIP to see all the restrictions)
* Lack of airports to fly to i.e Hasn't Abu Dhabi Intl prohibited all training, UNLESS you are an operator at THAT airport.
* Al Ain Intl is out of the question during weekday daylight hours due to all the military training going on.
* Training being prohibited in the MAIN CTA
* Green individuals in the system.

* However the above can be tackled with the usual bogus "UNDERSTANDINGS" which are a mere form of corrupt WASTA. :ugh:...........BUT for how long?

Regardless whether an individual has enrolled in ANY training organization for ANY course.....................Best Of Luck ! :rolleyes:

[WELCO]

I've been reading the thread for a while. I've got to say that many of the critics against MPL training are pretty true. Looking at the recruitment profiles of middle east operators, this becomes significantly correct versus other regions in the world. I have spoken to guys at GF Training and others in recruitment to find out fact from fiction.


- Didn't those pilots tell you that, if these airlines will ever decide to adopt MPL, each airline has its own scheme and standards for MPL training? Didn't they tell you that your MPL with Air Arabia WILL NOT allow you to work in Etihad or Gulf Air or any other airline unless you do another MPL/fATPL that matches your target airline (because there is no MPL conversion up till now)?

- Didn't they tell you that they will never stop hiring type-rated ATPL pilots, even if their own MPL cadets are ready to fly right here right now??!

- So until their "thinking and researching" is done, going for MPL on your own at this stage means you understand and accept being a tryout cadet!! Believe it or not... They will be happy to know that you want to be so.

& by the way...it's so misleading if you count on pilots and instructors to get you trusted info about such an important matter in big airline companies. This is all about another level of decision makers my friend..!


SilveR5, you were right about these I suppose according to the feedback I've got!
ICAO regulations in the matter look very fine, but practically it doesn't really happen this way. For example, few months back GF has clearly refrained from approving plenty of cadets requests to sponsor their MPL training somewhere in Australia maybe. GF has its own strategy for MPL in the future and they won't send the cadets to a place they don't recognize. In fact, GF won't need MPL cadets from anywhere except from those the company will be sponsoring with a partner FTO. I think this will be the case with other employers in the region. I would say this is the living example for MPL recruitment issues in the mean time and for the near future.

[Timur Moghul]

Is better to graduate MPL or CPL from Europe in U.A.E there is much Nationalism & waste of money if u r complete pilot 1st chance will be given to national his salary will be also double if u completed ur graduation of pilot from Europe then it’s very easy to find job in any part of Middle east or anywhere in uae u have 2 pay double but the best education more good then Alpha or Emirates will be given there in low cost in any good Aviation College. :ok:

me to wanna be pilot but when i search & took information these all information i found The Best Pilot r made in STATes in uae is only 1 climate

if u know anyother good pilot Acdamey plzzz inform

[mountaintop2007]

timur you need to get off whatever smoke it is you are inhaling i can not understand a damn thing you said. :ok:

[SilveR5]

Oxford Aviation Academy receives MPL approval - Flight Training News (http://www.flighttrainingnews.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=78&Itemid=1)

May 05, 2009 at 11:25 PM


OAA also say that their MPL course provides applicants with a money-back guarantee in the event of training failure anywhere in the course, which is mirrored in OAA’s other flight training courses. Additionally, OAA is offering the further guarantee of a fully-funded reversion to standard integrated ATPL training in the event the MPL programme stalls for any other reason. MPL students will also benefit from a joint sponsorship scheme under which Flybe and OAA will both provide up to £20,000 in funding support to those selected for the MPL course.




Flybe to open UK's first MPL recruitment drive - Flight Training News (http://www.flighttrainingnews.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=1)

Mar 01, 2009 at 02:00 AM


Additionally, in the highly unlikely event that there is any major interruption to the MPL course, Flybe and FTE have said that they will undertake reversion to the standard CPL/IR program at no additional cost to the students. This means that if circumstances arise that prevent Flybe from employing the cadets, their retraining will be generic rather than type and airline specific, affording them the chance to apply to other airlines. It is believed that this guarantee has been put in place in reaction to the unfortunate situation arising from the demise of Danish carrier Sterling Airlines last year, which left Europe’s first MPL rated pilots without jobs and stuck for alternative employment, given their training had been geared towards Sterling’s standard operating procedures (SOPs).


These are not my own opinions, are they?!

Cheers

[777-Aviator]

Hi all

I need your help guys!
My enquiry goes out to those who have went through Alpha's assessment.

I looking for all possible details about Alpha's assessment and aptitude tests. What are the details of these tests? what about math and physics tests? What is it that I should worry about the most in the procedure?

Your input and guidance are highly appreciated.

Thanks :ok:

[B737 ENG]

Hi there

I really appriciat u guys for the all of the posts cuz i was thinking also to join and i'm still thinking to join keep it up guys:ok:

[.air]

I am thinking of working at AAA as a PPL Flight Instructor. Can any one tell me about the present situation of the Academy? Are they growing fast? Is the building ready yet? Where is the exact location of the building ? Are they building any housing units for students and instructors? How many instructors are they planning to hire? How many aircrafts are they buying initially? Will they help there flight instructor's with a job on an A320 after a certain term of contract? How many students are currently in the Ground School?What salary will they offer to instructors?
I don't want to resign my present job and start working in a place which closes down like DAEFA in a few months.

[malirm]

I am a current student at AAA & everything is going on perfect at the moment, I know that AAA had a very wise & good lesson about what happened with DAEFA + other flight schools in the regoin + Clark Aviation & is managed by very experienced staff of the GCAA, Air Arabia, X-military...etc., where some of the instructors are A320 Type Rated & others were typerated on another aircrafts before they left their airlines for training student pilots, I can't say that if AAA might get you a place on the A320 while working as an instructor with them, but there is a possibility as you are so close!

There are currently 12 to 14 Students divided in 2 batches & about 2 applications a day...we always have to keep quiet in the corredors because exams/assessments are being conducted (Psychometric/Psychomotor)...:ok:

As for the accommodation & the new building, so far the new building is under construction, AAA is just beside Lufthansa Cargo office (nowadays) & I heard that they are going to shift to a nicely furnished Hangar as the Cessnas arrive in the last quarter of 2009.

I think I read PPL Instructor...can you get a CPL instructor...:), looking forward to training me, Good Luck

[Mike.Park]

I've just looked through the AAA website. The whole setup makes no sense to me to be honest.

Apart from the financial investment of Air Arabia into 'experimental' project, how are they involved operationally?

[SilveR5]

the financial investment of Air Arabia into 'experimental' project

Absolutely on spot!!!

[.air]

Marlim When are the aircrafts expected to arrive? Out of only 14 students how many are UAE nationals? Flight Instructors must have experience of instructional flying as well. To train you on C-172 A320 type rating will not be of any help. Very few Flight Instructors will take a risk of joining a place like AAA.
I am not saying it’s a bad place to work, can be a good one if the Management is good.

I heard that they are going to shift to a nicely furnished Hangar as the Cessna arrive in the last quarter of 2009.

Have they started building it yet or not??? Can you upload some pictures of the construction sight?

I think I read PPL Instructor...can you get a CPL instructor..

I wrote PPL instructor because I am training PPL syllabus since I started instructional flying.i can train CPL syllabus too..

[malirm]

I'm not sure if I have to say that, but AAA's General Manager is a Well known GCAA Authorised Examiner & is one of the Senior Captains in Air Arabia, in addition to the equipments that will be used in the near future (Level D Simulation, MCC & CRM stuff) that are till this moment will be provided by Air Arabia.

I am sure that Air Arabia asked for extra assessments & made some modifications in student selections to manage the risks as I went through the old & new assessments, ByTheWay, not anybody makes it through the assessments, I was just a little over the requirements...not that NASA kind of candidate :) (didn't impress anyone in some of the tests).

@.air, the hangar is ready, it needs a little work on the appearance & some painting!, lets just wait & see...why the rush :ok:

[yannisfr]

Is there any news about Alpha Aviation UAE? Where do they make the Cessna Training? What about feb 2009 cadets? And the others?

[yannisfr]

Any actual or former AAA's cadet?

[malirm]

Updates will be coming by end of next week at

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/423554-alpha-aviation-academy-3.html#post6447942

If I didn't, this is for sure because I am really busy...till that time, bang me with questions ;)

[keyur]

Can anyone pls update whats the status of this academy?
At the moment hows alpha aviation managing their courses??
is it worth paying 450000 DHS for this course??

[aakhan]

Just read the posts in Alpha Aviation Academy thread and you will know all the reasons as to why you should not join the Alpha Academy otherwise you will only regret it. Contract is enforced upon cadets 4 months after the training and cadets are then entreanched at all stages ground school, core flying, sim stage etc

[keyur]

yea but most of the comments are 2 years old.. thats y i wanted to know if there are any aaa sharjah cadet here he could give a fair idea about whats going on right now??

[RP-C000]

keyur.... if you do a search in the Middle East & Asian fourms you will see there are 2 or 5 guys who are the ones constantly expressing their issues.

the best thing you can do is call the school or call GCAA for a feedback from both parties.

For sure within the next 10 mins these same 2 or 5 guys will be responding to this message in their typical childish manner.

Alpha Aviation Group | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/AlphaAvGrp)

[aakhan]

Keyur there are two threads running in this pprune and you need to look at the other thread which has got all recent posts on Alpha. Remember you are from India and Dh 440,000 is a huge sum of money. Alpha will lure you with false promises and you will come to know their true colour after you have paid the first installment. The fees just not remain the above figure and money in extracted in the name of remedial classes at every stage. Go through the full thread and see how many negative posts there are. RP COO is part of the management whos job is to lure cadets to Alpha. He must be well aware of the tears and anguish of the cadets they have entreanched at every stage then kept their money in the name of contract which they give to sign four month after the commencement of training which is all in favour of Alpha.

[daniel richardson]

sorry if this is reviving a dead thread, but i thought i'd shed some light on this very negative thread.

I am currently a student with Alpha UAE and i cannot say a single bad word about them... Much like any FTO around the world, they're all about making money, but that does not mean that the teaching quality is sub-standard nor unprofessional.

Much to the contrary, the teaching quality is exceptional and shows professionalism throughout all levels of management, staff and students.

The instructors are approachable and will assist with all issues you may have regarding the subjects you are being taught, and will all do their utmost to make sure you get whatever it is you need to get before even considering you for main GCAA examinations, so that you do not go into an exam knowing that you will fail.

I have been in contact with several ex-students, who are currently flying with Air Arabia and none of them have a bad word to say about the quality of training that they have received, nor failure to deliver on promises made. Most of them have gone on to gain permanent employment at Air Arabia and their future careers are set... Before people judge on what is historic - non current - evidence, i would firmly suggest speaking to people who are actually there or have been students there before passing judgement.

[Farrell]

"Most of them have gone on to gain permanent employment at Air Arabia and their future careers are set… "

Sigh.
Can you imagine what this chap is going to be like in five years?

Ah, why am I worried? He's all set! :) Right?

[aakhan]

Daniel, think you gained confidence very early. Wait for sometime you might have to eat your own words.

[pfvspnf]

Yes wait till the day things slow down and ABY stops hiring with no need for new FOs, times are good now but nothing lasts forever!

[crazy_bird]

i am planning to join alpha this july.
i have been hearing rumors that the fees might be increased to 800k, can someone please confirm that?
Also, is air arabia still giving permanent contracts at the end of the 1500 hours?

thanks

[Pukster20]

Hi,

I'd like to know if anyone did the assessment lately and who started in november or will start in january or March?

Does anyone knows how many MPL's AAA has at the moment?

Hope to hear from one of you.

Thanks!

Puk.