women pilot

[Caj88]

Do you think women in aviation have the same chances to get a job?
Thank you!

[Fantome]

Do you think nowadays women in aviation have the same rights as male pilots?
For ex have the same chances to get a job?
Thank you!


I think, Caj88, you do prune big favour and delete your post and this thread.

Too silly for words matey.

[Socket]

Oh boo hoo, I didnt get the job. Must be because I am a woman and employers are discriminating against me. Couldnt possibly be because I am not as good as the person who got the job.:yuk::*:mad:

Give me a break, what a stupid question.

[Worrals in the wilds]

some glam that's worried about her nails breaking.


I know a few blokes like that.

Lots of women (not all) are perfectly capable of taking control of situations. Some guys (not all) are hopeless at it.

Comes down to selecting the right person for the right job regardless of gender.

[The Baron]

I think you're a bit harsh on a legitimate question, fellows.
Women pilots do indeed have exactly the same rights as their male colleagues. Worldwide, the ratio of female professional pilots is about 6 to 8%.
So hardly something to feel threatened about.

Unfortunately, due to misguided attempts at social engineering by governments setting targets to increase the number of women in management roles in companies, HR departments, faced with 2 equally competant candidates, will opt for the female. As a result their is a widely held perception among male pilots that their female colleagues have " have had it easy".

Are they right to think that? Yes and No...

[airman1]

Interesting Topic,:ugh::ugh:

I have worked alongside plenty of female pilots in my time, haven’t had any real problems as such. But I must say it depends on the person, some have played on being a women and palmed off particular jobs to the male line pilots. But with most operators these days they will give you a go regardless of gender if you meet there minima's.:ok::ok:

Caj88, is this a generic question or has someone or an operator turned you down????

Good luck with it!!!!:ok:

[The_Pharoah]

reminds me of my days in the Aust army reserve (officer trg) - on training ex's, we had sections including females of all ages. Some of them were more gung ho than the guys (I would have followed THEM into battle) but there were always one or two who couldn't hack it (they asked for 'girl time') which also pissed off the other girls as well as the 'old salts'.

long story short...this is a male-dominated society and women are just as (if not more) capable than men however they unfortunately have to prove themselves a lot more than sometimes guys do. :bored:

[More Right Rudder]

dlesmond - sexist! sexist! sexist! Just wanted to be the first ;)

There's always going to be guys holding out-moded notions about women in aviation (interestingly, I've found it's seldom the old blokes, who always seem to take a "onya, Sheila" approach).

I once had a middle-aged LAME say,
"teaching you about engines is like you trying to teach me about fashion"
Poor bloke....at least I have a chance of passing CPL Gen!

On the whole though, I've had nothing but support. I don't feel that I have to prove myself, and I certainly don't feel as though I have to hide my femininity - it's possible to be both competent and glamourous - look at Nancy Bird, or Shelley Ross (ex-editor of Flying mag). If a male pilot wants to refuel my plane, great - not because I'm afraid of damaging my nails, but because there's nothing wrong with gallantry. I don't see why equality should mean homogeneity.

Sounds like you've had a rough time of it, caj88. Has some-one implied that you're not worthy of a role due to your gender?

[Pilotette]

Hmmm...Interesting question. I agree with what most others have said...you shouldn't really see yourself as being any different. I think it depends on the operator (particularly in smaller companies) and what their previous experiences with women pilots are. Unfortunately there may have been a previous woman in the job that played the 'precious card' to get out of the 'blokey' jobs and this gives the rest of us a bad name and makes the operator more wary when employing females. I think women need to realise that this is still a very male dominated industry and we just need to show that we can hack it and do whatever the guys can do...sometimes this might mean doing MORE until we have proven ourselves (but don't do TOO much as the guys might not like being shown up either ;)). Basically you just need to try fit in and not make it such a big deal...after all we all get trained the same way. Other than that there may be other certain pros (some of us are lighter and may be able to carry more fuel/freight/pax) and cons (may not be the strongest so may take longer or need help to load baggage/freight etc) but they should just even out.
I've only just recently started flying commercially though so there may be others with a better perception than me!!
Good luck :ok:
P.S. Have a few beers with the guys at the pub after work and you'll be right!

[Beeroclock]

Im my experience i have seen a few females with little or no experience gain employment or keep there job over a male with more experience..Thats life!! Plenty of great females to have a beer with though so i aint complaining...

[blackhand]

Caj88
Have a read of Rosemary McCrae's story Whirley Girl 530.
It will give you some insight into a female pilot's life in a male dominated industry.
She is a bit of a legend amongst helicopter operations in Australia.
I was particularly impressed with the fact that she can stand a 200litre drum of oil by herself. I can only just do it on a good day.

Blackhand

[Fantome]

Hmmmm . . ... just try that line on Captain Gina Gillette. (Edit: because a post by longrass about boobs has just gone west.)

If a young woman makes it to final interview and some hardened old captain on the panel winds up by saying to her, we'll let you know, and incidentally, what would you do in the case of sexual harassment occurring when you're on duty, what could she say to enhance her job prospects?

I'd ask him not to say a word.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Longrass, out of genuine female curiosity, does that ever actually work? :}

On a related (I think) topic, do other Ppruners notice a lot of nepotism in aviation among smaller operators? I came from government (where all :mad:wits are created equal as far as their family goes) to aviation and was amazed at the amount of jobs for the rellies that goes on. Some of them are competent, but others should only be used as landfill...and they'd probably stuff that up.

Does this happen across the country, or is it specific to this location?

(Sorry if that's too much driftage)

[Lodown]

Q. Why do women make up only 6-8% of the pilot numbers?
A. 'Cause 92-94% have got more brains than their male counterparts.

[Caj88]

To those (males) who gave idiot/arrogant replies I would ask:
afraid to compare with girls? :E

To those who suggested to delate my question I say: sorry, no way.
I've no license yet, I'm planning my training and I want to know what I'll have to deal with: job opportunities (as I've already asked) as well as job conditions.
Also, I think there's a 6-8% of pilots and many other peolpe who can be intereasted in the topic..

What about me I would have the same rights and chances as everyone else, no more no less.
I'm asking you (as far as you know and experienced) how employers usually behave and I thank those who've already replied.

[tinpis]

I'm glad for the industry my 15 year old daughter has not the slightest bit of interest in it.
She is a bloody tyrant :ooh:

[Fantome]

To those (males) who gave idiot/arrogant replies I would ask:
afraid to compare with girls? Come behind the bike shed and say that.

tin if you search for that John Cleese Jimmy Kimmel interview there's a prize bit about the leopard/tyrant daughter.

[Zoomy]

I think go for it, however my wife says "if you wish to make a stand for feminism at the same time, you should learn how to spell first." :ok:

[FFG 02]

Caj88,

Curious as to why if you are in Italy, you are posting this in an Australian Forum?

FFG02

[Unusual-Attitude]

Interestingly, not so long ago, I saw a job advertised which stated it required the services of a 'small framed female pilot' for the right hand seat in a Lear or Citation...forget which company.

Was trying to work out the difference between a qualified pilot weighting 55 kilo's who happens to be a female and a 55 kilo male with the same experience/quals, other than the obvious!?

Thought about applying just to see what would happen, with my best falsetto voice and turn up to the interview in drag, but losing 35 kilos in three weeks did look likely, despite what Jenny Craig recons! :E

[Worrals in the wilds]

Scary thought, UA :eek: and we haven't even met!

Was that in Australia? The gender specification would be illegal in at least two states. It doesn't apply to foreign companies recruiting in Oz, though.

The weight restriction would also be hard to prove as a requirement, I've seen plenty of well padded Citation pilots leading a crash-free existence.

I wonder if there were 'extra' duties required :E


To those (males) who gave idiot/arrogant replies I would ask:
afraid to compare with girls?

You're asking a question on a web forum. You'll get those type of responses if you ask what colour the sky is, along with three ads for phone contracts and a guy in the wrong forum looking for flights to Inverness.

[Pinky the pilot]

She is a bloody tyrant

Inherited a little bit from her Dad then did she Tinny? :D:E

Just guessing, don'tcha know.:cool:

[capt_akun]

"a job advertised which stated it required the services of a 'small framed female pilot' for the right hand seat in a Lear or Citation."

could she act as a FA as well for the paying passenger?

[Fantome]

small framed female - one of woger wabbit's kittens?

[Sykes]

(And by saying this I apologise to the genuine retarded morons out there) :\

Caj88, get with the times. Women in aviation are just as good (if not better) than their male counterparts because they dont have to fit their massive EGO'S into the flight deck! :eek:

Dlesmond, your quote

But caj88 does have somewhat of a point. Think about it, is someone going to hire a bloke who's prepared to get his hands dirty and can take control when the situation arises or is he going to employ some glam that's worried about her nails breaking.

I wont call you a sexist; but I will call you an IDIOT! :ugh: You're barely beginning your flying training, and you're making statements like that! Great attitude! Grow up!

If any of you think it's about tits or balls, or want to cry in your beer because you THINK you didn't get that dream job because she had boobs, then you're just pathetic!

FFS, a more stupid thread on D&G I can't imagine! :mad:

[Fantome]

Sykes - Tone it down.

Aviation is an international endeavour par exellence; bigotry has no place on this bulletin board. If venting intolerant gut feelings is your thing, go do it somewhere else.

Moderation is like abuse; best self inflicted. We much prefer that you moderate your own output but will not hesitate to moderate it for you if required.

(Refer Rules of Engagement in JB)

[mcgrath50]

Fantome, skyes was not the biggot in this thread!

Some of the best instructors that have taught me have been female. Each have been just as ready to push the plane around and get their hands dirty checking the oil.

[j3pipercub]

"getting there hands dirty checking the oil"

Ha! thats a good one. Do you think thats what getting your hands dirty refers to? Try servicing wheel bearings, igniters, stripping paint (not that sort of stripping, although in the past I have also..nevermind) then re-spraying and re-assembling aircraft, checking the avtur tanks, ordering more of it, then getting on the tractor and slashing the strip, changing the oil in the tractor and the list goes on...

That being said, if you are prepared to work just as hard as the next guy/girl you will not have a problem caj.

There are two types of pilots in this world, tools and non-tools. I have seen equal shares of both in both sexes.

j3

[Konev]

Caj88,

Curious as to why if you are in Italy, you are posting this in an Australian Forum?

FFG02

its commonly reffered to as a troll post.

[Fantome]

Retarded Morons
(And by saying this I apologise to the genuine retarded morons out there)

22 years of army life sharpens the wits no end. (Take no prisoners.)

[I spy]

OK, I'm a female, (not a commercial) pilot. Having said that, I have many, many friends who are commercial pilots, both male and female and have been around aviation in one form or another for over 8 years.

Not proclaiming to be a subjecr matter expert, but I have heard, from very reputable souces, that the old "hairy cheque book" tactic has been utilised by female pilots, in the past, but there is one particularly well "known" identity that seems to have quite the reuptation for it - and I do mean "known" in the Biblical sense.

That kind of practice drags all female pilots down to the one level and explains why some men have misgivings when it comes to female pilots.

Jobs should be gained by merit and ability ALONE

[bin b'archin]

Reminds me of the old saying;

"If women were meant to fly the sky would be pink and the cockpit would be called a box office."

[Fantome]

bin, you are seriously unfunny

keep it up and you'll be a has-bin

[bin b'archin]

Calm down mate, I never made the saying up.

[newagebird]

hey
well let me say as an instructor, training girls is actually the same as any guys. Some are absolutely clueless and hav no idea why they chose this career (girls and boys) and some are just fantastic in their prep for a lesson and decision making.
However when it comes to jobs, ive always felt girls are more readily accepted in an all male culture. just cuz its nice to have em around. Whether or not theyre liked is depending on how they behave with everyone else at work. Have seen girls with very little experience get in over guys who had more hours and arguably the same competency. Just the way the world spins i guess.

newagebird

[RENURPP]

Caj88, get with the times. Women in aviation are just as good (if not better) than their male counterparts because they dont have to fit their massive EGO'S into the flight deck

What absolute garbage, some of the bigest ego's I have come across on the flight deck do not have a penis.

Its just displayed in a different way. :ooh:

[Sharpie]

Pray tell me, in this moden age with more female tech crew, is the stick-shaker now called a vibrator to be more politically correct? minosave!:)

[multime]

Don,t believe a female crew is professional., given the bitching and winging.
Sorry i,m sexist.
But men are better at this than women.
A gender thing created by GOD or who ever.
Living with one for 12 years i can assure my fellow pruners.. You !! can be the love of her life. One second,. Then You can be an absolute KC#####!!!.
Can,t work them out.
Too emotional , not thinking, . Estrogene.??
Command by it,s Nature is a man.
Thats why we still have the human race.
Controlled and intelligent.
NON EMOTIONAL.
Now women who are emotionally devoid of kids , family and security try to ask these questions. Emotional women.
Got my own problems, perhaps a fertility clinic may solve yours.
M:ok:

[Ixixly]

Well this just got interesting... *Grabs the popcorn and a chair* continue! :ok:

[Worrals in the wilds]

Got my own problems,

To be sure, to be sure!

Personally, I'm glad that us members of the Spinsters' Club have wider options than governessing, convents and marrying for the look of it.

That's just me.

I suspect Multime has trouble at home :{

Estrogene.??

You may be thinking of oestrogen, or progesterone.

Vale Mrs Pankhurst. :ok:

[sprocket check]

Flip side, if aviation had 6-8% men and 92-94% women, how would it be different?

Would there be no bitching, slander, exploitation of workers, favouritism, power tripping games, irrational outbursts of emotion, EGO (I love putting that in caps, women have egos at least as big as men), better performance, advancement, retarded thinking, etc, etc, etc? Would the industry be safer? better in any way? worse???

IMHO, the reason there are so few women in aviation is because there are only a few of them suited to it, in terms of aptitude and attitude. There are exceptions and probably by and large they are exceptional people. The job itself is not out of reach of female capacity, the attitude and aptitude might be...but I don't know of many young girls lying awake at night thinking about flying, or engines or physics. Plenty of boys though...

Why do you, or did you, (question directed at the woman pilot thread starter reading this) want to be a pilot? and equally importantly, why does it worry you? If you want it, do it, don't play games or create imaginary issues for yourself and your kind. People get discriminated against for a myriad reasons, some sex, some looks, colour, clothing, blah blah. It happens to male and female and always will. This is planet Earth, not Utopia, get real.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Would there be no bitching, slander, exploitation of workers, favouritism, power tripping games, irrational outbursts of emotion, EGO (I love putting that in caps, women have egos at least as big as men), better performance, advancement, retarded thinking, etc, etc, etc? Would the industry be safer? better in any way? worse???


Nursing is like that. The short answer to all those questions is a big fat no. I think you're right, when I got my (personal) dream job in aviation all my male friends said "Wow, that's cool" and all my female friends said "what would you want to do that for?"

but I don't know of many young girls lying awake at night thinking about flying, or engines or physics.

Some do. Now they have the chance. As do men who dream of being nurses, hairdressers or interior designers (and they're not ALL gay!). That's good.


create imaginary issues for yourself and your kind

Absloutely right. Stop whinging and Just Do It. :)

[OBH]

Well, in my experience, being female can work both ways.

I can't say I have ever used it to my advantage to get a job, but then again I'm not afraid to get in there and get my hands dirty. Aviation is a passion not just a job, and if you're going to make it in this industry regardless of sex, you have to do the hard yards - all of it.

I do my job just as well - if not better than most of the "men" I work with. And I'm proud of that.

For all aspiring female pilots out there, don't ever let a man tell you you can't do a job. Always ask to be involved in the hanger, around the office, at the pub. You'll be suprised how much you can learn. And yes there'll always be a few wankers out there. Deal with it, move on, and find something better.
To all you men out there, especially those I've learnt from, and shared many great experiences with (both good and bad) thank you!! :D

My 2 cents....

Just remember the age-old "never judge a book by it's cover" - one day it might suprise you!

[ResumeOwnNav]

but then again I'm not afraid to get in there and get my hands dirty. Aviation is a passion not just a job, and if you're going to make it in this industry regardless of sex, you have to do the hard yards - all of it.


OBH, thats good advice which a lot of guys also need to hear. It is your attitude which lets you suceed, not your sex.

[Monopole]

Elizabeth Thible of Lyons (first female to leave the earths surface), France a hot-air balloon in 1784

Madeleine Sophie Blanchard a famous French balloonist who was appointed official Aeronaut of the Empire by Napoleon in 1798.

Katherine Wright first flew with her brothers for their demonstration flights in France in 1909.

Harriet Quimby became the first licensed female airplane pilot in America in 1911

Helen Richey was hired by Central Airlines as the first woman pilot on a regularly scheduled airline in 1934

The list goes on and on and on.... including

Amelia Earhart became the first woman to fly across the Atlantic, as a passenger. She gained fame from this, but it was by no means her most significant contribution to aviation. She became the first woman to fly across the Atlantic solo in 1932

Nancy Bird Walton of Australia. She was one of the first two women in New South Wales to fly at night and the youngest woman in the British Empire to qualify for a commercial license in 1935

Women have been involved in all aspects of aviation since before the Wright Brothers and their powered flight. They have been some of the first (of either gender) to make flights or break records. I am not saying that there involvement in the game has been easy, and in FACT it hasn't. The resistance to lady pilots was profound! Arguments arose regarding a woman’s physical ability to control a plane, considering their naturally weaker physique, and the thinner air in the upper atmosphere
"First Women Pilots! Early Female Pioneers of Aviation" - Maybe (IMO) a valid concern of the time.

So females in aviation is far from a new concept. In the modern world any damage done to the image/reputation of the female pilot, is by the majority, caused by the female pilot. I have worked with females who physically had trouble with certain duties ie; standing up a 44gal drum of fuel. And as long as they attempted to give me a hand doing it for them, I had no issues with it. Hey, I have even had to ask people to help me with certain tasks, and Im a big bloke.....

So, if you have an issue about being a female in aviation, then it is your issue. And maybe you may want to consider if it is the right job for you.

[More Right Rudder]

:D :D :D

Onya, Monopole!