Aircrew (WSOp)

[Amnesia180]

Hi All,

I’m new here and am looking for a little bit of advice. I joined the RAF (only stayed around 5 months) and that was 4 years ago. I have since matured a lot and am now considering starting a career in the RAF.

I have done some research and have been investigating a career as Aircrew (mainly WSOp, Creman).

I have been in touch with the AFCO and they have given me the following information;
I will sit a 2 hour presentation, giving the details of life in Aircrew.
An interview with an Officer to determine whether I am suitable for the selection centre at Cranwell.
I will then spend 3 days at Cranwell going through Aptitude tests, Medicals, Interviews and Leadership tests for them to see whether I have the potential to lead a team and successfully get my message across.

My only concern, (as I am assuming competition is high), is that when I complete my 9 weeks basic at Halton, and progress onto the 10 weeks training at Cranwell, that (for any reason) I could be failed at Cranwell.

I have also been told that you do not choose to be a Crewman but get streamed into Electronic Warfare, Acoustics or Crewman (on either fixed wing or rotary aircraft).

I am interested in speaking to anyone who has recently done their 10 weeks at Cranwell, or already in the RAF as a WSOp.

An idea I have had is to contact certain Squadrons and ask if I can talk to any Air Load Masters (as I believe their job title has been placed with the WSOp Crewman one?). Do you think it is a bit early to be contacting them, though?

Apologies if this is a bit of a long winded message, I am just trying to gather as much information as possible, as this is my last chance.

(Some of you may have seen a similar thread at e-goat, if you’re registered there).

Thanks in advance,

[Spam_UK]

Check PM's

[Pontius Navigator]

My only concern, (as I am assuming competition is high), is that when I complete my 9 weeks basic at Halton, and progress onto the 10 weeks training at Cranwell, that (for any reason) I could be failed at Cranwell.



This suggests the question - then what happens?

The answer will be of interest to many. For instance a chopped pilot may be offered re-branching to another job or simply resign his commission. For an airman the answer will be similar - any hot gen out there?

[Spam_UK]

a Handful of guys I went through with failed whilst on 55. They were given the option of either a return to trade (if serving before), leaving the air force, or off to high wycombe to see if there were any other ground trades suitable.

[Amnesia180]

Thank you for the replies everyone.

Do you know what specifically the guys failed on?

I'm assuming the instructors at Cranwell are there to get you through the course and don't *want* to fail anyone... However, If you're not fit enough or don't have the right temperment for the job, then I suppose they have no choice.

I'm just wary of giving up a job (in this economic climate) to then be looking for one in 19 weeks time! However, if I were to be offered a ground trade, that wouldn't be so bad.

I don't know why I'm focussing on failing, I undersatnd that is the wrong attitude, but I am just gathering as much information as I can to ensure I make the right decisions :)

Thanks again for the information.

[Airborne Aircrew]

The first hurdle you'll need to get over is explaining why you only stayed 5 months last time around...

You're going for Aircrew. One assumes you weren't Aircrew before and one also assumes you weren't being officer trained, (if you were being officer trained then the explanation might be simple).

Now you are going for aircrew, (not wishing to start a p1ssing match), the best the RAF has to offer. If you backed out previously what can you bring to the table this time to convince me that you won't spend a few weeks hanging out with the "elite" before going home to mummy again? If you were failed in training what are you bringing to the table this time to convince me you can pass a series of courses that, most probably, will be much more difficult physically and mentally that the one you were kicked off last time around?

Harsh? Maybe... But if you don't have convincing answers then looking for a job in 19 weeks is a non-issue.

[Amnesia180]

Hi 'Airborne Aircrew',

Thank you for your reply. I totally agree with you, and I expect to be asked those types of questions. No, I was not going for commission and I did not fail at anything. I chose to leave on my accord.

When I am asked the above in an interview, I will answer similar to the following;

The first time I joined I was 17 and to be honest, lacked maturity. Whilst I may have been physically mature and acted mature for my age, mentally I had areas to grow. In these past 4 years, I have gained life experiences (whilst they can’t be compared directly to the experiences I would have faced in the military) I have grown a lot in many areas, including confidence. I was a month from turning 18 and felt that being in the RAF there may have been lots of things I couldn’t experience. I knew that once I turned 18 I would have to have completed my full service time, and this is something that made me think “do I want to be doing this”. I thought about it a lot, and decided to leave. Unfortunately, I didn’t have the foresight to see that it was the wrong decisions.

We learn by our mistakes and this is definitely the biggest regret I have, leaving the Air Force.

Now I’m 21, leaving won’t be an option for me. This is something I want to do for a very long time.

I understand that Aircrew is the Elite of the RAF. But in these past 4 years I feel I have gained many qualities that will aid me to serve successfully as Aircrew. Along with hard work and the training I will be given, I feel I would certainly be able to aspire to the high standards required.

Any advice you can give me on whether or not there are certain things I shouldn’t say, would be great. I’m not asking for “answers” or what I should say, because at the end of the day there is no point in lying, as it’ll come back to bite me in the future!

[Pontius Navigator]

I'm assuming the instructors at Cranwell are there to get you through the course and don't *want* to fail anyone...

Indeed their aim is to train you not chop you. I know of one baby Eng that was recoursed twice as his attitude sensor was stuck OFF. After his 3rd survival course with the promise of a 4th he adjusted his attitude and got through that phase. No idea what happened after that.

Right temperment (sic) for the job, attitude and aptitude are certainly crucial.

I'm just wary of giving up a job (in this economic climate) to then be looking for one in 19 weeks time! However, if I were to be offered a ground trade, that wouldn't be so bad.

I don't know why I'm focussing on failing, I undersatnd that is the wrong attitude,

Having tried once before you know why you bailed out. You are therefore probably understandable wary. As A_A says, is explaining why you only stayed 5 months last time around...

One answer of course is, as you said, lack of maturity when you were only 17. Now you have been in the wide-world for 4 years, you have learnt . . . , you know you are more mature because . . . and crucially you now want to become aircrew because . . .

[thedonnmeister]

I am just starting my Aircrew Training, so If you have any questions you need anwering about the Selection process or the training itself, PM me.

Jamie

[Airborne Aircrew]

Amnesia;

You seem to have things "down" now and on the strength of what you have just said I'd be prepared to give you a second chance... just one little teeny thing...

I understand that Aircrew is the Elite of the RAF.

Along with No. 2 Squadron RAF Regiment my lad... along with 2 Squadron... http://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/smilies/salute.gif

http://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/smilies/fishing.gif

[Faithless]

Amnesia;

You seem to have things "down" now and on the strength of what you have just said I'd be prepared to give you a second chance... just one little teeny thing...


Quote:
I understand that Aircrew is the Elite of the RAF.



Along with No. 2 Squadron RAF Regiment my lad... along with 2 Squadron...

:yuk::ugh::=

[Amnesia180]

I would like to say thank you to everyone for your helpful comments.

Any other criticisms you have, I would be happy to hear them.

I have already begun training (with regards to getting my fitness as high as I can) and will also be reading into what planes the RAF fly with, which squadrons and where they are stationed, etc, etc... but that should be expected :)

One last question - Eyesight and Tattoos!! I am short-sighted to -0.75. Is this okay?
I also have a large tattoo on my back (it's basically a full back piece) of an Angel. I know in the notes the RAF say "any tattoos that are too big", I don't think you can get much bigger than that! But, it doesn't run onto my neck or hands (or head/face).

Airborne_Aircrew - If I say that about 2 Squadron will it gain be extra points?! haha, just kidding.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Amnesia:

The angel on your back has wings, right?

Then you're almost Airborne, and thus Aircrew should be attainable without a problem... (just kidding too ;) )

You'll work harder for either than you have ever worked for anything and, in their own ways, they're both worth more than most people can hope for.

Go for it, work hard, work smart and I wish you the very best of luck...

[fact_attack]

i woudlnt worry about tattoo's mate, as long as theyre within QR's, there isnt a fat lot anyone can say against it

[Amnesia180]

Apologies for the delay in replying, I've been out of action for the past week! I didn't want you to think I was ignorant and have ignored the previous two posts.

Fact_Attack - Thanks for the info. Yes, they're within the QR (I don't have a swastika or anything like that and all no tattoos are visible on the neck, hands or face.

Airborne Aircrew - Thanks for the information you've provided for me. I've been doing my research and found a link to a PowerPoint presentation that shows the training schedule for WSOp (such as the number of weeks spent at certain places and when the streaming process happens, etc).

I'm sure I will keep visiting the forums and will update you on my progress, if you would like to hear it. :)

[Amnesia180]

Hi Flt Lt Mac,

The presentation can be found at www.raf.mod.uk/no22traininggroup/rafcms/mediafiles/9C2CA119_1143_EC82_2E38786ECE6bE6FA.ppt and is the last slide in the series.

[Amnesia180]

Hi all,

Apologies for 'bumping' this thread, but can anyone confirm if the link I posted contains up-to-date information on the WSOp course?

Also, do you know how frequent the 3 day selection centre is at at Cranwell?

Thanks,
Amnesia

[camelspyyder]

I can tell you that the WSOp slide on that powerpoint is not current.

About 3 weeks ago 17 WSOp Course started the new version of the basic phase (titled WSOp Generic on the slides you linked to) which now has no airborne content at all!!:rolleyes:

CS

[Daf Hucker]

The slide for linguist isn't accurate either. Post Generic course, the guys and girls go to Beaconsfield/Chicksands for academic language trg for up to 18 months, then around 8 months with 54(R) Sqn for applied language trg prior to brevet award. The actual OCU (flying) phase with 54(R) is only a month or so though...assuming that there's an aircraft available of course!:}

[Amnesia180]

Thanks for update :ok:. I'll do some extra digging and see if I can find the correct info.

[Amnesia180]

I can tell you that the WSOp slide on that powerpoint is not current.

About 3 weeks ago 17 WSOp Course started the new version of the basic phase (titled WSOp Generic on the slides you linked to) which now has no airborne content at all!!

CS

Am I right in assuming it is only the content that is changing? The Aircraft that WSOp's can be streamed to, will remain the same?

Sounds like a silly question, but during my prep evenings I've started to learn about the individual Aircraft that I could (if successful) be working on. Information that I'm getting from the RAF website include which Squadron use them, where they are located, and for which tours they've recently been used.

Can you also confirm the general layout will remain the same.

NCA ITC - WSOp Generic - Stream to Linguist/Sensor/ME Crewman/RW Crewman. From this point it differs depending on where you have been streamed, but essentially you will then be streamed to Aircraft (either FW or RW).

Thanks again, :)

[camelspyyder]

The few Linguists are pre-selected before entering training. For everybody else, the streaming options are Sensor/Fixed/Rotary. Rotary trainees move to Shawbury for flying training, Sensor and Fixed stay at Cranwell for flying training on the Dominie

If you want to know more come to 55(R) Sqn on the last Thursday of any month for our briefing day for prospective WSOp applicants. I'm sure you'll be able to find our phone numbers to make arrangements if you're that interested.

CS

[Amnesia180]

Hi CS,

Thank you for the reply :ok:.

I am due to make arrangements to attend 55(R) Sqn after my initial presentation, this is something I have told is very beneficial (by a lad at my AFCO).

[Wessex Boy]

It isn't just Cranwell that can chop you, 20 years ago (:ooh:) I went through Swinderby (like 6 weeks of cadet camp), 7 weeks of Finningley AAITC - Bloomin hard (for want of a better word) 12 weeks of ALM Basic Groundschool (fun) CSRO training, then Rotary ALM ground school (forget half what you learnt for Hercs) and then onto the mighty Wessex at Shawbury.

I then relaxed and enjoyed myself far too much, got into a few scrapes and then was told that I would fail my flying course on my behaviour.
I was back-flighted and did it all again, but 2 days before the end was chopped from flying for good due to my 'Personal Qualities'.

I then spent some quality time working for the SWO at Shawbury before doing an attachment in PhysEd at Brampton before finally going to Innsworth to be offered a choice between Steward, ATCA and a couple of other not particularly enticing trades, or I could leave. I took the latter.

Moral is: You can be chopped at any time they see fit, so if it is what you really really want, then go for it, keep your nose clean and work hard right the way through to your brevet.

[PingDit]

And as a follow-on to the previous comment, I believe they can still take your brevet away during the first 6 months on your first operational squadron!

[Pontius Navigator]

Wessex boy said You can be chopped at any time they see fit

And as a follow-on to the previous comment, I believe they can still take your brevet away during the first 6 months on your first operational squadron!

Both comments are true, the difference is that you retain you brevet if you pass that magic 6 months. I don't know but that 6 months could be flexible. I know our first plotter was chopped on his 4th flying tour and was a sqn ldr to boot.

[Spam_UK]

It was explained to me that it was 9 months on the squadron, or CR, whatever was the latter. That is now the point where you become a Substansive Sergeants, and as I understood it, that was where you kept your brevet.

Nothing stopping you being made NCR after that though!

[Motleycallsign]

CR upgrade should be made 6 months after becoming LCR, if the sqn is looking after its people correctly

[TheWizard]

....or if the individual can be arsed to put the work in . Despite what some believe, it doesn't come with the Cornflakes:hmm:

[Wessex Boy]

Just wanted to add that even though I was chopped I have no regrets about joining and trying (only regret I couldn't be more sensible at 19!)

The leadership training is world-class and AAITC shows you the edge of your personal envelope, and the warning signs when you are getting close to that edge that stay with you for the rest of your life.

The 120 hours I have in the back (and a few in the front) of a Wessex has given me airmanship and flying discipline that are still there now I have revalidated my PPL all these years later.

So Amnesia, go for it, if you get through you will have a great career, if you don't the experience will be as valuable as any uni course, except you get paid more and the girls love a gro-bag :E