Dave Cox to leave QANTAS!!!

[Long Bay Mauler]

Apparently there is an email to the select few that Dave Cox(not the one in CC001) is about to leave the building to pursue another career outside the Qantas Group.

Can anyone confirm this?

If so,we would all like to thank Mr Cox on his past efforts and wish him well in his future endeavors outside the Qantas Group,blahdy,blah,blah,blah,not.

[Hercfix]

Yep, confirmed. He leaves on 03 July. Interesting to note his title changed recently from Executive General Manager to Group General Manager, which is a demotion in QF.

[zube]

Anyone know the phone box location of the going away do?

[aveng]

Wonder if he is getting out of dodge before the government formally changes the golden handshake rules for incompetant fools?

[Ken Borough]

Interesting to note his title changed recently from Executive General Manager to Group General Manager, which is a demotion in QF.

Nor is he a member of the 'Executive Team' according to the compan'y website. Justice!

His departure date is 3rd July. Does this means that no one will know the departure payout etc until publication of the annual results for 2009/10 which won't be publicly available until sometime late in 2010, and more than 12 months after he goes? Once again, it appears that the shareholders are being taken for mugs. Who will tell Nick Sherry of this farce?

[Clipped]

Now .. who's next?

I'll start - Green must go.

[cementhead]

GD
MH
PS
now DC

the team that drove the LAMES to PIA are just about gone.

[hadagutfull]

The only thing that irks me.... he goes on his terms with his perks in tact.
Another one of the new age saboteurs who gets out without any accountability for their actions.......great.:ugh:

[Clipped]

Yep, it's white collar crime.

Heard some of our ex-manager's are plying their trade with a Malaysian MRO. Now about that Joint Venture up there ... What would they be up to?

[fordran]

Mr Strambi said a search had begun for a successor to fill the post.

and the odds are -

Bruce 15-1
John V 1000-1
Dick 250-1
remain vacant 3-1
Kevin 66-1
Adrian 6-4
Murray 4000-1
Steve 100-1
Keith C 7-1
Osama 5-2
Rod 50-1
Chris S 12-1
any other 10-1

[stubby jumbo]

Good riddance I say.

This clown has presided over POSSIBLY the worst period for the once proud EOC,E&M,Engineering traditions.

His media performances were nothing short of appalling.

What goes around,,,,.........come around-next job for him will be a Doonside tow truck driver !

Word is out..........that next week ( Mon,Tues) there will be many,many more announcements like this one at very senior levels.

BRACE BRACE BRACE......HEADS DOWN STAY DOWN.

[Millet Fanger]

I've heard Smasher is 'draughting' up a CV as we speak. It makes sense, DC faked it.

[tjc]

SHORTHAUL: Steve Creedy | March 20, 2009

Article from: The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/)
"LONG-SERVING Qantas executive David Cox is leaving the airline after six years in charge of its maintenance operations. The 23-year veteran, who was last year at the centre of intense scrutiny of Qantas maintenance in the wake of two serious accidents and a damaging industrial dispute, was responsible for several significant developments at the airline. These included introducing the QantasLink brand and involvement in selection and entry into service of B747-400ER, A330 and A380 aircraft. He was also responsible for restructuring at Qantas engineering that saved more than $500million."

I think they left a few things out...............I am laughing on the inside!

[Ngineer]

AJ and LS are not idiots. They are aware of the problems within engineering. There are a few managers who have every right to be afraid. Their time has now come.

There will be a great deal of change in the near future. Hopefully for the better. And to those managers, just stay focused. The shoe is on the other foot now guys........:ok:

[division1]

The news of David Cox leaving the fold has a comforting sort of feel to it.
So then, here's a nice song for Dave...
- Time of Your Life (Good Riddence) - (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_fFJLIeD9s)

[QFinsider]

Good riddance....tool

[stubby jumbo]

apparently another one of the former EXCO members got the punt today.

The AJ -enema is certainly doing the trick.

Wednesday will be THE BIG FLUSH

[employes perspective]

as a former HM Lame who has left the industry due to this pr!ck,i'm thinking there is finally justice and a blithering idiot has got his just deserts :mad::mad::mad::mad:

[MR WOBBLES]

SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news
MAS Engineering hopes to maintain Qantas aircraft
By Leithen Francis (mhtml:{DB83A929-885B-4527-B8B3-03D71870CD2F}mid://00000013/!x-usc:mailto:[email protected])


(Re-releases to add Qantas comment)
Malaysia Airlines Engineering and Maintenance (MAS EM) is hoping Qantas Airways will send some of its aircraft to Malaysia for heavy maintenance checks.
MAS EM senior general manager Roslan Ismail said in an interview that he is hoping Qantas may have heavy maintenance checks on Airbus A380s as well as Airbus A330s and some of its Boeing 747s done in Malaysia rather than Australia.
He also says MAS EM and Qantas are proceeding with plans to establish a joint venture that will utilise MAS EM's heavy maintenance facilities in Kuala Lumpur.
He says the two sides were originally planning to start the venture in this year's third quarter but now it will start in next year's first or second quarter.
"They [Qantas' maintenance and engineering bosses] said give them a few months to sort things out," he says.
"They have a new CEO at Qantas and they have this union problem."
Qantas executive general manager government and corporate affairs David Epstein says, however, that there are no immediate plans to send aircraft to Malaysia for maintenance work.
He says it is too early to make decisions on A380 work and there are no plans to send 747s to Malaysia as this work is carried out in Australia..
He also says Qantas has been in talks with its engineering workforce about having A330 work carried out at Qantas' maintenance base in Brisbane.
In addition, Epstein says no discussions are currently taking place on the proposed MRO joint venture with MAS, adding that it will not be possible to have it operating early next year as Roslan hopes.
Qantas appointed Alan Joyce as new CEO late last year and the unions in Australia are opposed to efforts to outsource work overseas.
But MAS EM has made inroads with Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA), the regulatory body that needs to be won over if Qantas is to be permitted to outsource work to Malaysia.
CASA has already granted MAS EM regulatory approval to work on Australian-registered A330s, Boeing 737s and 747s.
MAS EM is well placed to get A380 work because Roslan says Qantas has no A380 hangar, although Epstein says Qantas has a 747 hangar at Sydney Airport that has been altered to accommodate A380s.
Roslan says MAS EM has a purpose-built aircraft hangar at Kuala Lumpur International Airport that can fit two A380s and one other widebody simultaneously.
Malaysia Airlines has ordered six A380s with the first to be delivered in January 2011. But MAS EM needs to have 20-25 A380s to work on to justify the investment in equipment to carry out A380 maintenance, says Roslan, adding that it is hoping Qantas can provide the necessary aircraft.
The Australian carrier has already come to loggerheads in the past with unions over efforts to get work done in Malaysia.
A few years ago Qantas was looking to get MAS EM to convert some of its 737-300s to freighters. But following union pressure, Qantas ended up doing the work in Australia at its facility in Avalon near Melbourne.

[DaHai]

Things must have changed.

I worked in the same department as Dave for a number of years, and had a working contact with him when he was promoted to Director of E&M I think it was. I left QF in 1990, but at that stage, had always found Dave to be a nice person, and obviously fairly smart.

Like I said, times or people have changed if the negative comments I am reading here are correct.

[Blue Carpet]

Now Curtis Davies EGM Services.

[Short_Circuit]

I am sure there is nothing "personal",

but hasn't QF Engineering operation & morale taken a dive in the past 5 to 7 years.:sad:

[Qantas 787]

DaHai (http://www.pprune.org/members/248767-dahai) - don't believe everything you read here. Half of the people on this board think they could do a better job than Cox. David is still a nice guy and everyone who I talk to who works with him don't have a bad word to say about him. I wish him well with whatever he does in the future.

[tjc]

don't believe everything you read here. Half of the people on this board think they could do a better job than Cox. David is still a nice guy and everyone who I talk to who works with him don't have a bad word to say about him. I wish him well with whatever he does in the future.

I guess the well wishes wont be coming from the very experienced and skilled workers from Heavy Maint Sydney and the quality QF and Third party work they used to produce................but we wish him well anyway!

Good Bye.......Forever!

[employes perspective]

nice guys don't put 450 people out of work for no good reason,good riddance to another pig with his snout in the trough( i guess he bleed that stone dry)

[woollcott]

The man fought tooth and nail to squash a 6% payrise for all LAMES (costing QANTAS many millions of dollars when a dispute arose) and at the same time gladly taking a 50% payrise for himself........
At a mass meeting with him, when I said I wouldnt be doing overtime he said "we will be docking your pay if you refuse"
Goes to show the people skills of the pr!ck - and he wondered why morale was so bad....................................
He then had the temerity to go on National radio and say that the dispute was the engineers fault........................

[Arnold E]

Qantas 787 What do you say in reply?

[Long Bay Mauler]

Very quiet that response!!!

[ampclamp]

everyone has an equal voice here not just those with a negative experience.If someone worked with him and found that a good experience good on them for saying so.
as a LAME my experience was not that flash.whether he was a decent enough fellow without the qf suit on I dont know.
I can well understand employees perspective on him.having lost my job elsewhere a few years ago thru no fault of my own its not pretty and an embittering experience all round.

What I will say is that if you take on the contract and the cash that goes with the territory you take all the crap that comes with it.if you dont want the crap dont take on the job.

whilst there is some cheering going on I suspect there will be much more change through out engineering especially in yssy.It will be leaner, procedures must change, empires must be shut down.

[AlanShore]

well stated ampclamp, however there are some people who have been in this company a long time and have seen managers (with their brilliant ideas) come and go. The contract that you talk about? Is it said managers or an average lame? I was employed as a lame, not a people/process/business manager. I would like the autonomy to do what I was employed for and not be micro-managed from (it seems) every level that qantas has engaged over the years. Is that too much to ask?

[ampclamp]

I thought it was clear, sorry if not.I meant the manager's contract in that its fine to stick up for the guy but in the end if he really is uncomfortable with doing people over he should have left. So in the end does he have no principles and did it for the money despite being a good guy or he thought he was doing a good thing or just didnt give a stuff about those being dismissed ?

I wont miss the management ethos of being a Geoff clone .

[QFinsider]

Whilst the culture was fostered by the 'biggest little man' ever to be promoted above his level of competence..Geoff, don't forget this culture had the unashamed supoport of the right wing think tanks that permeated the liberal party and created 'workchoices'

Without a change of government a pronounced downturn would see even more hardship than is currently evident. That hardship would as usual be borne by the rank and file.

As to AJ too early to drop your guard, big on words doesn't translate to any different in practice to his predesessor...

[the rim]

i will get on the band wagon by saying he was a d$#khead at work in the position he was in,now that he and the rest of his crew have been set adrift ...hopefully now the managers whom were under his control can now shine....hopefully QF engineering can once again be a world leader but the latest news is that we have just lost anz and thai contract so the boys in line will be thinned out and whats happening to the men in cns ????....well i thought we could once again shine but maybe DC took the polish with him

[Going Boeing]

don't forget this culture had the unashamed supoport of the right wing think tanks that permeated the liberal party and created 'workchoices'


QFinsider, all the knowledgable people in the Union arena believe that Dixon thought up Workchoices and then sold it to the Liberal Government of the time. I don't think that things would have been much different if it had been a Labor Government as he has even better links with the ALP. The Unions are very dissapointed with KRudd & his sidekick as the recent changes to IR laws do not completely dismantle Workchoices - it looks like the well heeled employers are still calling the shots.

[division1]

Thai last week, ANZ this week, Whats left?
The rot started 3 1/2 years ago when D Cox and M Harris
got rid of the Singapore Airlines handling contract.
Their modus operandi appears the same then and now...

Singapore Air said Qantas had tried to lift the price of the $9 million a year contract by "at least" 30 per cent last week.
It said the price hike was closer to 50 per cent,
given Qantas had decided to stop providing "pushback, water and toilet" servicing to Singapore Air aircraft.
"We had every intention of recontracting Qantas to provide our Australian-based engineering services.
We were surprised in the negotiations that Qantas lifted its rate well above market rates,"
Singapore Air spokeswoman Kate Pratley said.

Since then just about every customer airline has been fooked off, so
by the time the door slaps Cox and Green on the arse it will be too
late, their mission accomplished and the damage done to the future
generations in Qantas line maintenance.
Wish them well? You've got to be joking. :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[QF22]

That probably explains why SQ have dropped QF contract in S'pore.
So is TG going? Sooner the better.

[the rim]

you made my day ...is green going ...hopefully this p$#ck has distroyed line maint forever... what a stooge ....i am lost for words..mmmmmmm

[The Mr Fixit]

The board of Qantas were divided
To shut down (Syd Hvy) or not to shut down, they could not make a decision (apparently GD did not want to shut it down) so.........they asked David Cox to make a decision.
Being the insipid and ill informed individual that he is, he blubbered, he stammered he could not make a decision so..............he asked John Vincent to make a decision
After about five minutes John Vincent said Shut it down........

When the ALAEA came to town for the EBA roadshow the President stood before us and said that when questioned about who made the decision and whether he could sleep at night, JV said
"I am absolutely proud of my decision to shut Sydney Heavy Maintenance down and I sleep very comfortably"

Yes, GD, KB, MH, PS, JM and DC were a good start but to kill a cancer you need to cut it all out, I say when you, JV and the rest of the filth management you dragged with you from Ansett are gone, then and only then will reparation begin at Qantas until then the war rages on.....................

[Bootstrap1]

And where were the ALAEA when Syd HM was being shut down? The silence was deafening.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

And where are the "ALAEA" that were silent at the time Sydney HM was shut down?
GONE!

[the rim]

well i can tell you they were there.....and nothing they could put forward would change a thing.....the blokes at HM were asked if they could put forward anything to stop this and the reply was ...just tell them them we need to do the heavy maint in aust.mmmmmm its all history after that....but let me say something for their defence before you rip into them.......syd heavy maint ratio mech
8.5 lame's to every ame
avionic's
12 lame's to every ame
now thats great for aircraft maintenance but for making money its not and before you start ripping into me just think if you were running a shop what would you want ......i think somewhere in between would be good ...unleash on me

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Agreed Rim. My old avionics crew in Sydney HM had around 7 LAME's to 2 AME's plus apprentices. My current Brissy crew has 4 LAME's (one non BHM type) to 3 AME's plus 2 apprentices. So in Sydney, if one LAME away occasionally, Ratio 3:3 usual case.

BUT..... with the way things are nowadays in Brisbane Heavy, on my crew, more often than not, one LAME is on secondment overseas, another is seconded to "tech cell" or other strange position, leaving 1 on type LAME to look after 3 AME's and 2 appretices. Ratio 1:5 usual case.

Now my crew, is not a normal crew, we work a seven day, dayshift only roster (By now, BHM people MUST know who I am; hi Brent, Paul, Nikki, Rick, Bob and any onthers reading), The normal Mon-Friday crews are often running with 1 LAME to 2 or 3 AME's plus 2 apprentices plus 1 or 2 contractors. 1:6 usual case.

Some contractors are a hinderance rather than help. Add to this production meetings, safety observations and other activities which are the responsibility of the LAME, and you soon see there aint much time left for supervision. Pretty much left to the 2 or 3 AME's to hold the hands of appretices/contractors.

Yes, Sydney had an excessive LAME:AME ratio, but the present situation is opposite. Which is safer?

[employes perspective]

so the ratios where sometimes a little high in Syd HM,but at other times they where the opposite and we would struggle for Lames,especial at the end of a check(with people on secondments,leave,training,duel certifying bits, etc),besides that the grade 3 and 4 lames where not on great pay it was $60 a week more than the most experienced ame's,I think the cost has been a lot higher for Qantas in the last few years than a few extra low paid Lame's it had.

[Mobi LAME]

To Mr Fix It. I may be wrong but didn't JV come from Qantas before his arrival at Ansett? Many of us remember the NEWCO debacle, although not many of us actually saw him. We use to have the 'Where's John?' style of cartoon parody along the lines of 'Where's Wally?'. Didn't he retreat back to Qantas the day before the second grounding of Ansett's B767 fleet?

[tjc]

Does anyone know when the Cox train is set to leave?

Does anyone have the goss on who's coming in on the next train?
(if filled)

[max autobrakes]

COX , now weren't they a little .049 engined model aeroplane that went around and around making a lot of noise?
Then again ,no discernible difference really ,was there!:ok:

[Ngineer]

Yes, Sydney had an excessive LAME:AME ratio, but the present situation is opposite. Which is safer?

When I was in Syd heavy many moons ago, there were approx 5 LAME's and 4 AME's (including apprentices) on crew. Some LAME's were single CAT rated (some 3a's, some 3b's). Wages were not excessive though well above average in general. It was not an expensive model by any means, but one that worked very well. It helped maintain QF's immaculate safety record. Many years of invaluable experience was passed from generation to generation of engineer. We had all heard of "Tombstone Maintenance", it was a tool used by other airlines and not by ours.

Unfortunately times have changed. I have seen our aircraft in a hangar in HK with 1 LAME on shift, running between a QF aircraft plus 2 other aircraft in the same hangar. Which method is safer......

Thats a no-brainer.

[ampclamp]

Ah yes where's wally? That was fun. and yes we used to say he was qantas plant to shut Ansett down.
In that, the job was well done.

It matters not from where these type spring from its the mindset that matters.
Ansett had some very fine people just very poor owners over the years who strip mined the place of working capital. qantas also has excellent people but I can see that from working for both companies qantas is still so entrenched in nepotism and empires its scary.
The way engineering is run is disgracefuly fragmented in its daily routines, paperwork, work pratices ....etc.And its not just the senior managers' fault. .Entrenched interests in lower areas of supervision and work practices ride roughshod over all efforts from above or below.The cull must go on and much further.

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

Forget John Vincent. Rumour I heard today was that David Edwards is set to step into Cox's shoes. How did it go when he was at Ansett - "I'll get you Butler!!!"

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

[the rim]

you have got to be joking they would not could not be that silly...mmmmm well maybe ...but NO not him as our ansett mate's will no doubt back me on this one ......and ngineer 3a's and b's that was a life time ago ...and yes i have always said that qantas always did a better job but in the MORE recent times it has got a lot more costly ....and no i dont agree with it

[OLD DINOSAUR]

Could someone tell me why Qantas continues to hire ex Ansett managers in engineering? I have not seen a good one yet and they all worked for a failed airline which must not look too good on their resume.:ugh:

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

Oh I think they could be that stupid. He's been "General Manager - New Aircraft Readiness" until recently but I think he's moved on to General Manager of something else. Just be worried if you receive a video in the mail featuring him asking you to consider redundancy. Last time he did, Ansett was dead within 12 months.

Our only hope is that he might be one of the 90 managers to go in AJ's purge.

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

[ampclamp]

I would hazard a guess and say the DE rumour is just that.He's too old now to be promoted to a position like that.All imho.

as for criticism of the former ansett managers... some were qantas trained and all were hired by qantas managers who are obviously far far superior.Not.

The underlings no matter what you think of them follow policy and procedure set by executive level people.

[Sunfish]

You know an organisation is in trouble when all new managers are hired from outside the company.

This is a function of narcissism. because there is a logical disconnect that says "anyone who works here must be stupid, so we will go hire a smart person from outside". I've watched this happen. A certain manager went through three externally sourced assistant managers in quick succession before she found one "special" and compliant enough to participate in her rotten schemes, a graduate of Oxford no less.

[ampclamp]

back to being a fossil old boy.:)
many pax have said to me the wrong airline went broke all but for the vague workings of the industry with its political machinations, very poor ownership etc.
Ansett went broke for many reasons, it was not because qantas had a better product.They were not even competitors until they were allowed to take on Australian.Years later the merger still has yet to gel.Culture clashes and legacy IT and paperwork still hinder progress.
Ask the old blue team who was better to work for!

Their (qantas') engineering was better in that money in old days was no object.If the money is there training will be good, easier to get and more thorough.Govt paid for excellent infrastructure that has been allowed to diminish or close over the last 10 years.:mad:
In other words that legacy has saved its backside with a nod and a wink from govt.

Ansett were a far better firm to work for when both were running in the good ol' days.Just ask all those ex qantas engineers who left qantas to prop up licence numbers throughout the industry.They didnt leave because they were happy campers.Some took the super payout, most just hated the culture.

I've worked for both , for contractors, overseas and in other areas.I am not qantas or ansett trained and have an open mind on both. From that position its easy to see where some of the problems are.

[Mobi LAME]

How could we forget:- "727.........no change!"

[the rim]

guys lets not peel off from the thread and get into a an..vs..tn..vs...qf..here its about who may fill dc shoes ..it maybe no one so will have LS at the top of ops which has engineering back under its wing then you have GH/KMcD.....running the base and line then all the respective managers their lot cuts out cox's level

[ampclamp]

Yes fair call rim.
I suspect DC will be replaced, he'll get a new title and the layers beneath will be a bit thinner.
AJ and LS have just started.

[division1]

"Yep, confirmed. He leaves on 03 July."

So, no one noticed his departure???

[max autobrakes]

Another phonebox farewell party for a Qantas Manager, how unusual.:}

[stubby jumbo]

whats he been doing all year?

I cynically reckon he pushed his exit date to July 3 to take advantage of the years of service redundancy calculation which is indexed up as each financial year ticks over ( as he had 20 years + "service") AND also the tax break he'll get in the new financial year as his bonus etc from last year will mean he will be slugged with a hefty tax bill for 2008/2009 fin.year.

Hopefully in his next role he might of learnt his lesson-if it ain't broke -leave the bloody thing alone !!!

That STRATEGY MAP ( tragedy map) was an abomination. 'Heard that BCG got paid a squillion for developing this:ugh: :yuk:

[woollcott]

You should be using the Strategy Map everyday to guide you in your work..............................................

[OLD DINOSAUR]

I hope he takes his strategy map to Sydney University along with his safety observations and show all his nice new aeronautical engineers how he managed to destroy a great airlines engineering department.

[blow.n.gasket]

As the old shop steward once said, "bloody academics, all they do is learn more and more about less and less until they know everything about absolutely nothing!":ok:

[KING GEORGE II]

off topic a bit, but the tragedy map was recently stolen in club pineapple cns. Notsew had the cops, feds, csi, cia,fbi, and the bikie undeworld on the job. The little benny hinn had info that narrowed down the perp to four usual suspects. the little subordinate said that massive qf resourses were being used to find the perp including every camera on the airport.
then he found it in the storeroom next to his office.
Poor little twirp. notsew.