No Arabic please with Iranian ATC

[Adverseyawn]

My petpeeve:

Pilots who greet Iranian ATC/Tehran Radar in Arabic.

Once when an esteemed colleague of mine tried that it was met with a terse "I'm not arab and we don't speak arabic!!"

At least if you want to try a non-ICAO greeting, look up what hello, goodbye, and thank you is in farsi.

Any other petpeeves?? Anyone...

That's all! I feel better now.

[filejw]

I had to laugh when i read this as I was thinking how Iran ATC has some of the best English speakers in the region...LOL

[Adverseyawn]

Too right filejw...except us Australians. Just ask us! ;)

[777-200LR]

Was actually flying yesterday over Karachi FIR and heard someone use the word "shukran".

[PositiveRate876]

My petpeeve:

Pilots who greet Iranian ATC/Tehran Radar in Arabic.


First of all, Arabic is a liturgical language of Islam. All muslims are familiar with the greeting "Asalaam Aleykum" and none would be offended by it.

Second, Arabic was greatly influenced by Old Persian a and there are a lot of words that are similar. The greeting "Salaam" and the word "Inshallah" are two such examples.

[Adverseyawn]

Perhaps it's that Persian vs. Arabian - as in "The Gulf" - all over again.

The problem that I've observed is that when someone greets Tehran Radar with "Asalaam Aleykum" they respond with the same phrase instead of the more proper (I think) "Aleykum Asalaam" so obviously they're not that familiar with Arabic, not even the most common of greetings.

[Northbeach]

"xxxair 123, destination Tehran, inshalalah" Has nothing to do with a pilot’s lack of confidence on their ability to arrive at some point at a precise time. I wasn't there with you, and I didn't hear the transmission. But what do I know? I was only raised in Teheran and at the time was fluent in Farsi. And I was, on more than one occasion, mistaken for being Iranian by Iranians. I considered it a great honor.

There are several possibilities in what the pilot might have meant. First it was simply a reflex statement, with no particular meaning attached. Right mate; simply repeating a polite phrase.

If we were to meet and you asked me "How are you?" You are not really asking for an exhaustive run down of my health and the welfare of my immediate family. Those words are simply a polite gateway to the next level of communication, if there was any intended. Reflex statement-bridge phrase.

Or, they were placing themselves in the "proper and polite" position culturally by yielding themselves, and the events in their lives, to the possible redirection by the ALMIGHTY. It is a culturally respectable and well-bred position of humility. It may not translate favorably to somebody else outside that culture. But Dorothy is not in Kansas anymore.

Or, maybe they knew it was a pet peeve of yours and just wanted to get your goat? Just kidding, but there is an interesting “English phrase”. What are the Americans doing with goats?..........Let's not go there.

Persians are no more Arab, than the Catholics are Protestant. Not to understand that difference, and to lump them all together, is to make the same mistake as believing there is no difference (historically, language or religious experience) between an Englishman, Frenchman and a German. That reminds me of a joke………

A final note: there is a rage building among some Iranians against Arabs and Islam. (Rightly or wrongly. just what our world needs-more “rage”) Some are fiercely proud of their people and resent being “brushed off” or lumped together by foreigners who pass themselves off as being civilized, educated, technologically advanced and presume to "lead" the world. I am not saying that you personally did this or that you personally presume anything. Not the case at all.

This “cultural stuff” absolutely fascinates me, especially in how it relates to professional aviation and in particular CRM and the safety implications.

Side note: I would be especially interested in and value any feedback from Iranian and Arab pilots. How did I do, did I accurately present “your side”? Feel free to PM me.

3rdCulture. I only look like I'm a YANK.

[OMDB-PiLoT]

Yep that's what I just said.

Speaking of which - another common pet peeve is those who have no faith in their flying ability and make "hopeful" estimates of time or level or even destination when asked by ATC.

"xxxair 123, destination Tehran, inshalalah"

LOL! This shows you're an ignorant fool! :ugh:

[RWEDAREYET]

NorthBeach,

Great Reply!

When I first started flying for a living, most of my trips where down to Central and South America. Being young, dumb and full of.....I couldn't stand all the Spanish.

Then I learned the culture, understood the reason for some of the phrases from ATC and pilots....it made sense. No different then me saying "so long ya'll" do to my region of the U.S.

Now, when I'm in the gulf region, I sign off saying MaSallam. (not sure of spelling) It's courtesy and nothing more.

Thanks for added reason to a stupid comment. Cheers!

[Mephistopheles]

My pet peeve is people,that are supposedly professional, having ridiculous pathetic pet peeves about toally irrelevant things.

[loc22550]

To avoid any problem just great on a "neutral" way: good morning,afternoon,evening in their local language (if i knowm it by courtesy),otherwise in english, and that's it..without any religion conotation...First of all i don't want to impose my Religion to others, second i don't known the religion(and i'm not interested to known it) of the ATC guy/lady!
(PositiveRate86 &Kamel Hucker: it seems that you assume that all the arabs&iranians are muslim :=!).

[Panama Jack]

Was actually flying yesterday over Karachi FIR and heard someone use the word "shukran".

Seems that I hear some Air France crews greeting the local ATC'ers regardless of where they are with "Bonjour"

[Capt Groper]

Just say "crossing the Arabian gulf" on the PA inbound to Tehran and you'll spend a few hours on the ground as some Iranian on board has just rung the President. Just happened to a ME airline recently.

The PAX was probably after some browny points.

Caused a considerable delay.

Oh, was the individual worried about the inconvience he was causing to the outbound PAX (comrades) with onward connections? Hadn't a clue!!


:):ugh:

[PositiveRate876]

(PositiveRate86 &Kamel Hucker: it seems that you assume that all the arabs&iranians are muslim :=!).

Let's see, the country's name is...

The ISLAMIC Republic of Iran and 98% are Muslim.

Sorry for assuming. My bad.

[shortfuel]

[Panama Jack: that's the Air France touch...some of them think that's an honour for ATCO to answer "bonjour"...colonialist mentality...]

[White Knight]

Northbeach - you say Persians are no more than Arab, than the `Catholics are Protestant... Well what a stupid ignorant comment..

Indeed Persians are not Arab - correct.. However this is speaking about ethnic background and genetic bloodlines.. You can have Protestants and Catholics of the SAME nationality and ethnic grouping - such as the English..

777-200Lr - 'shukran' in Arabic is very similar to 'shukria' in Urdu:ok:

[Northbeach]

Rwedareyet,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. “….it made sense…” Isn’t it wonderful when the “light” goes on? It’s even better when you can laugh at your own culture when you begin to see it from somebody else’s eyes.

[bushbolox]

My pet peeve is Americans using the phrase "my bad" to describe an error they have made.
It makes absolutely no grammatical sense, gives the impression that they see the world through illiterate childrens eyes ....oh wait a minute they do....sorry carry on with the inhallah peeeve thing:ok::}

[OMDB-PiLoT]

Kamelf - Insha'Allah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insha'Allah)

Grow up and learn to respect others' religious beliefs.

[filejw]

mistake....................................

[Dixons Cider]

My pet peeve is Americans using the phrase "my bad" to describe an error they have made.

Thats American??!!

I see that phrase so often now, and I thought it was coming from someplace back of beyond where they only have a fingerhold on the English language....

Oh. :rolleyes:

[trimotor]

You're correct. Between the Indians and the Americans, I'm 'not knowing' which culture is the biggest blight on the English language.

Since when did a descriptive term, in this case 'bad', become a noun?

It's even more irritating than 'funner' (as in 'more fun') and 'winningest' (as in most successful').

Maybe that's progress, just not as we know it.

Keep 'doing the needful'.

TM

[msr001]

The thread starer as well as the Iranian ATC guy in my humble opinion both missed the whole piont. The pilot was trying to be friendly and polite that's all. Only to be met by a rude controller who is self centered on the fact that he is not an Arab nor a Muslim. And a fellow pilot whom trying to be nice just gets on his nerves.

I live in a certain Arab country in the Middle East where the population are Muslims and Christians but guess what, we all greet each other with Salam Alikom. And we all say Inshalla. No one is offended.

But then again it may be the pilot's responsibility to check the cultural roots and different ethnic groups and divisions of every FIR he over flies before trying to greet them just in case a bouncy ATC gets his intial call.:=

[nolimitholdem]

Kamelf - Insha'Allah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grow up and learn to respect others' religious beliefs.

Sorry, but lecturing and patronizing will never help increase anyone's respect, and in fact serve to decrease it. Coming from someone in Dubai, it's comical.

[OMDB-PiLoT]

Kamelf - Insha'Allah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grow up and learn to respect others' religious beliefs.

Sorry, but lecturing and patronizing will never help increase anyone's respect, and in fact serve to decrease it. Coming from someone in Dubai, it's comical.

Why is it comical? If asking someone to respect a religion is lecturing for you then so be it. UAE, Iran and most of the countries in the Gulf region are Islamic and if you are traveling here, you should respect the religion -- SIMPLE! Not everyone in Dubai is drinking up or simply ignorant like you are! Also, words like "Inshallah" or "Mashallah" are very common here, so if you have no idea what you are talking about then please shut up and not make a fool out of yourself. What you said was more comical than anything else.

[loc22550]

Anyway...Happy Norouz(new year) to all the Iranian people today!:ok:

[PHAROH]

msr001,
Well said till the part "pilot's responsibility" .

[ShinjukuHustler]

That's funny...I wonder if ebonics will find its way into standard RT phraseology.

ATC "XYZ9876, sqawk/ident, where u at homeee?"
Bro-Air "Whazzaaaaaaaaaaap, chillin at three faive ohhhh ma N!, we gott dis bitch trimmmmed!"
ATC "sloh yo ass down brutha, we be crazier than a mo-fo down heeah"
Bro-Air "why you always be on a brutha just cos he crusin n doin his thing, I oughta come round yo house n get all up in yo face"
ATC "Bring it awn beeatch"

It could happen!

Hustle On :ok:

[Schibulsky]

Grow up and learn to respect others' religious beliefs

When I was growing up my father told me to better stop believe in fairy tales.
Now I have to "respect" the guys who didn't manage to do that?
The ones who show their respect by calling me an unworthy infidel?
Sorry, but the best they can ask for is me tolerating it because I live here.
That generally goes for every other group who still believe in talking snakes and all the crap they been fed in childhood.

"religion is myth-information"

Is there a any place on this planet where people with a free mind can live without being patronized by any cults or sects?

[axialflow]

hmmm....Antartica comes to mind.

peace
Ax

[nolimitholdem]

Muttley, you understood perfectly, thanks.

Grow up and learn to respect others' religious beliefs.

If asking someone to respect a religion is lecturing for you then so be it.

OMDB-pilot , if the first of your quotes is your idea of "asking", then it goes a long way to explaining why there is zero respect. Tolerated....barely. Respect? Never. THAT has to be earned, and shrill admonitions aren't the way to get it. It also has to be returned for it to last. But I don't expect you or most others in this region of the world to EVER understand that. Between the culture of entitlement that always accompanies wealth not earned, and the sheer regressiveness of so much of the mindset, no one is holding their breath waiting for change.

Peace in the Middle East, y'all.

[OMDB-PiLoT]

I got what you meant even if the 22yo cadets find it difficult, NoLimit. A pretty simple message:

"That" attitude + Demand for Respect = Comical...

They will just never get it, though, because the attitude is simply ingrained too deeply. It's cultural.

Its funny how you say I am showing attitude, while your the one with attitude and disrespect. Its okay, this is how your mindset is and I am not going to spoon feed you manners. It shows your parents failed teaching you manners while you were growing up! How shameless can you be. Unfortunately, you grew up in a culture-less and religion-less environment, so I have full sympathy with you.

BTW, you got your equation wrong.

Your Attitude + Disrespect for others' religious beliefs = Comical



"religion is myth-information"


You simply can't go teaching Atheism with that statement itself. See its OK if you are an Atheist. Its your belief and I respect that. Similarly, others on this planet have different beliefs and you should learn to respect them as well. Simple. You don't have to force your beliefs on others, just learn to appreciate the land where you live. That's all.

it goes a long way to explaining why there is zero respect. Tolerated....barely. Respect? Never. THAT has to be earned, and shrill admonitions aren't the way to get it. It also has to be returned for it to last. But I don't expect you or most others in this region of the world to EVER understand that. Between the culture of entitlement that always accompanies wealth not earned, and the sheer regressiveness of so much of the mindset, no one is holding their breath waiting for change.

I am sorry but I disagree with your understanding. Islam is one of the fastest growing religions, so its obviously respected by a huge population on this planet. If you seriously believe Muslims don't respect other religions then it's obvious you've been brainwashed or clearly have no understanding of the religion. There is a reason why you are a Gulf resident. If Muslims hated other religions, then you would've been mowing your lawn in states and not being chauffeured to your villa from airport! It shows you have no idea what religious and cultural values mean. Also, its pretty apparent that your jealous of the wealth (whatever that remains in this time of recession) in this region. The day you lose your selfish attitude and start respecting others for their religious and cultural beliefs, you will be a happier person. Try it for a day!




PEACE!

[PositiveRate876]

http://www.mattcutts.com/images/duty_calls.png

[OMDB-PiLoT]

^^ HAHA! :p

[togaluck]

Hahahahahaha!

[Schibulsky]

Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.
So there is no belief that I could force on others!
It's anyway not my mission to force anything on anybody...please just leave me alone with that hocus pocus...thanks...end of discussion from my side:}

[Billy Madrid]

"Religion is just people going to war over who has the best imaginary friend"

No disrespect meant.... Lets move on

[msr001]

Reading through this thread I fail to see how did it turn (as a lot of other threads in the Middle East forum) to disscusing and as usual misinterpreting Islam.

[OMDB-PiLoT]

Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.
So there is no belief that I could force on others!

Your not believing in the existence of deities is still a belief in itself! You don't have to force it on others anyway, just keep it to yourself and let others believe in whatever they like. IMHO to go around mocking others' beliefs is simply childish. End of discussion from my side as well :)

[bus787]

Tried to locate Inshallah on ATC standard phraseology.

Guess What Not there!!

[OMDB-PiLoT]

There are way too many non-standard calls made everyday and many pilots use local words in their conversations all over the world, so don't act smart here. :ugh: Ever flown over Europe or Asia before??

[Schibulsky]

here are some more "childish" ones:

-People Who Don't Want Their Beliefs Laughed at Shouldn't Have Such Funny Beliefs.
-Too Stupid to Understand Science? Try Religion.
-There's A REASON Why Atheists Don't Fly Planes Into Buildings.
-Threatening Children With Hell Is FUN!
-"Intelligent Design" Helping Stupid People Feel Smart Since 1987.
-If God Wanted People to Believe in Him, Then Why Did He Invent Logic?
-JESUS SAVES....You From Thinking For Yourself.

brought to you by:
Just Another Godless Atheist for Peace and World Harmony:ok:

P.S. its NOT intended to mock, just posted for the open minded to have a chuckle :p

[kit330]

bus787- u also wont find cheers or g'day mate or any other phases like that too...so what it's a regional thing..get use to it :ok:

[bus787]

INSHALLAH will do.!!!!

[kit330]

thats the spirit mate....:ok:

[Sal-e]

As I heard my son greet his Bahraini friends on the school bus on the way to school with a hearty and well recieved 'G'day habibis'!!

Why not mix it up a little with the cultures? It's a globalised world we live in, more so in this profession.

[bus787]

Will take your advise guys.
My next london flight will greet them with Namashkar!!!
Surely will get a lot of replies.
Oh what Globalisation can do!