Night freight operators - been a year since this was asked...

[flog]

Hi,

Can anyone recommend night freight operators that employ low time (250hrs) newbies?

Already had a look here but how out of date now a year on? http://www.pprune.org/d-g-general-aviation-questions/325125-night-freight-operators.html

Cheers,
Flog.

[j3pipercub]

:D that's a good one!!!!

oh, you're serious... Would you trust someone with 250 hours with a navajo or something of the like in winter out of Bankstown or Melbourne? IMHO it would be a very brave operator who would put on guys/girls with that sort of experience. I have been very wrong in the past though, I had Alco shares :{

[badhaircut]

Its about 75k for a new engine in a Navajo! And its always the young ones that seem to break them :ouch:

Isn't there an insurance requirement of at least 500 hours TT before you jump into a twin with an operator anyway?

[AussieNick]

flog matey, your best bet is, like me and so many others, is to make the pilgramige like so many others and head north. for me it means heading back home and hitting the operators face to face. don't be afraid to send a resume first, but be honest and follow it up. show interest. hell, i'll call the ops i emailed next week just to see if they recieved my resume.

[flog]

<RANT ON>
Blah blah, young, blah.

35 years old here boys and girls. 2 degrees. 17 years experience as a professional working with kit and projects that cost 100 to 1000 times what a PA-31 engine will cost if I get things wrong by even the slightest margin.

Can anyone tell that lumping me in the same 'experience' bucket with an 18yr old 250hr CPL makes me annoyed? But I suppose there's nothing for it. Hours are King.
<RANT OFF>

Now, to the clarify my original question slightly in view of the responses (thanks guys) - what night freight operators are there that I can apply for a job at as their rats and mice flying + IT Manager / CIO / Resident Geek?

[flog]

O, and Aussienick, can't do the up north thing (although I'd love to) as I've got 3 kids under 6, and a morgage, and I run an adventure flight business from YLIL.

[j3pipercub]

flog,

Ok, well to clarify the situation, in your previous profession were newbies to that industry allowed to play with the equipment that was worth "100 to 1000 times" a navajo?? If that is indeed the case then it is a very different industry to aviation.

A comparable situation would be me walking into an IT consultancy firm and saying "I want a job as your middle level consultant cos I have blah flying hours with blah multi command". Can you see the non-sensical logic in that? Can you also see how the IT industry would look at me? That is how you will be viewed if this attitude continues...

And unfortunately, no matter how many other qualifications you have, they do not count for the ultimate, hours.

I find it a little irritating personally that you think that experience in another industry translates into hours. You are young as far as flying experience is concerned, and I have absolutely no qualms about lumping you in with an 18 year old CPL, with the exception of the fact that the 18 year old may have a smaller chip on their shoulder with regards to what they expect from the industry. And how will you cope in 5 years time when your Captain is 30 and you're 40??

And to answer your question, I am not aware of any operators who are looking for an IT manager/junior pilot. You might find it easier to be a meat bomber for a while or go back and get your instructor rating. Instructing is one of the disciplines where previous life experience can hold you in reasonably good stead. The danger in being the office staff is that you run the risk of getting stuck in the office.

And one further piece of advice, you are trying to make a start in this industry, ranting like you did will make you no friends and will more than likely have most of the people on this forum thinking quite a bit less of you.

j3

[flog]

j3, damn you for being right. I do enjoy a good rant on occasion though, call it a stress relief mechanism, better than not saying anything IMHO. :}

I've owned and run 2 businesses in my time and I've found that experience and maturity count for everything. It always amazes me that aviation, in this regard, is so different. But then again that's me looking in. When I hire people I look for the right attitude before anything else. I can train anyone to do almost anything, but without the right attitude you're screwed.

Bloody hours. :mad:

Back to my meat bombing...

[Unusual-Attitude]

Flog...I was also 35 when I started flying for pay...after 14 years as an engineering officer in the RAF, looking after 40 million dollar a throw Tornado GR4A's.

My first 1000 flying hours was spent cattle mustering and fish spotting in an assortment of fairly ropey old cessna singles in the middle of butt f#$k nowhere. (And it was probably the most fun I've had flying to date!)

This game teaches you good lessons in humility, particularly if you go in to it at a slightly more 'mature' age! I learn't some good stuff off of my colleagues, (mates)...some of whom were young fella's...18-25.

Theres no short cuts, (age and prior unrelated work) to hours.

[tail wheel]

"It always amazes me that aviation, in this regard, is so different."

Is it? I'd hardly want a medical intern carrying out brain surgery. Or a fresh IT graduate reconfiguring our servers or VPN.

Perhaps the big difference is that aviation is totally unforgiving to those who make mistakes and errors?

Unfortunately, most people don't know what they don't know.

[pill]

With 3 kids under 6 it might be worth paying for an endorsement on a turbo prop and shooting for an fo position. Less chance of orphans. Early days single pilot is a bit like riding motorbikes.

[Whiskery]

You won't get a job anywhere out of a major city with 250 hours no matter what "attitude" you have. As you said Back to my meat bombing... and when you have 600 hours or so, get your ass up north and get some real time. :ok:

[Amelia_Flashtart]

Flog - in some ways you contradict yourself when you say having had two businesses you found maturity and experience count for everything. I am sure the experience you refer to here is relative to the work being performed.

My aviation degree and experience (around 3,000 hours) doesn't count for anything in my role as an international development consultant, any more than my post grad degree and 20 years experience in international development would assist me get a job with an airline. The two skill sets and experience are not interchangeable. The only time the two have ever been vaguely complementary were when I was called on to view the lease between SAW and Solomon Islands Government when I was working on RAMSI. I was the only one of the consultants in-country who had any understanding of the terminology used and, through family connections, a full understanding of aircraft leasing.

Sadly I cannot think of a single GA / Freight operator who has an IT set up large enough to sustain an IT Manager / CIO / resident Geek - let alone pay for those skills.

Good luck - I do hope if you are serious in your endeavours that you do find a way ahead.:ok:

[The_Pharoah]

Unusual-attitude

mate, as a side note...could you possibly let me know how your flying career went after that ie. to where you are now. I'm going to be in the same boat as you (currently 33 now...about to start lessons) but its always nice to see how others in the same cat have gone. :ok:

Cheers

[Dances With Dingoes]

Flog, not very long ago Pel were still using Microsoft Excel to work out fuel for the flight plans. Perhaps you could write them a a new program, or even just shout them a copy of champaign for a job on the west wind.

If Dom can do it........... :ooh:

By the way, while you may not have many hours your age will be an advantage in the early GA days. Lots of CP's will appreciate a good work ethic and some maturity. Passengers also like to see an older face up the front. They don't often ask to see your loogbook so are none the wiser.

Personally I would rather see my family flying as passengers with a pilot that has 3 kids then trying to choose the most mature of three kid pilots. Mainly because I still remember when I was a young fella. Probably shouldn't have even been allowed to drive a car on my own. :E

As you say, hours are king, so you just going have to take a number and try to stand out in some other ways.

Best of luck

DD

[mcgrath50]

DWD,

'Age: 24' Your still a young fella arent ya? I hope i don't see myself as old at that age :P