£1,000 per hour for an R44! (Japan)

[Freewheel]

Because they do all their maintenance on time, in proper facilities and pay their pilots what they're worth.


......and anything not built there is generally freakishly expensive anyway.....

[RotaryRat]

Hate to see what they charge for a AS350 :eek:

[500e]

What ARE you suggesting Freewheel:suspect:
Like the proper pay bit though (Oops no you said what they are worth)

[Freewheel]

500e

Every machine I've ever seen that came out of Japan had it's maintenance performed on or ahead of time. No mistakes, no discrepancies in part numbers, no mysterious entries, no corrections or miscalculated service time. This is not exclusive, but it is unusual to have no errors whatsoever across several operators and more than a few years. In one case, the highest discrepancy between due time and maintenance time was 0.3. Maybe I've just been lucky.

The maintenance organisations I've seen (only 2, but still) are superbly neat and tidy with the kind of environment that makes one want to live in a 205 cabin in their hangar.

I've never heard a Japanese pilot complain about only being able to afford to eat rice or noodles....

[FairWeatherFlyer]

As a starting point, I would question why the thread is deliberating on the price of a local service in a foreign currency? How much is an R44 to SFH in japan in terms of yen, us dollars, gold, big macs, or cocaine? And let's throw in a graph for the hell of it!

Currency Converter | Currency Convertor for all Currencies - Yahoo! Finance UK (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=GBP&to=JPY&amt=1&t=2y)

[B Sousa]

Someone is getting ripped off.......... Maybe a thousand Yen.........

[cleartorotate]

OK guys, Lets see where the most expensive R44 in the world regarding to charter rate. I know in a small country in south east asia there is a Raven 2 for $1300 US an hour.

[John Eacott]

I sold a Cessna 172N to a client, who exported it for use in Japan. Nearly a year later it was brought back, as the hurdles to putting it on the register and operating in Japan became impossible to cope with. As an example, no non standard parts were acceptable in the aircraft: even the radios, transponder and seat belts, which had been legally replaced with newer/better items, would not be allowed on the aircraft for Japanese registration, and were required to be reverted to stock Cessna parts :uhoh:

A number of R44's were hired on a high use operation, and still came in at double the Australian rate. Maybe, just maybe, they have the sums right, and we should look at our charge rates being too low :hmm:

[Auschick]

India: Raven II from 40 000rupees -60 000rupees/hr + taxes, around $US800-$1200/hr + taxes. plus quite a few more rupees for fuel placement etc

[Schumi - Red Baron]

India: Raven II from 40 000rupees -60 000rupees/hr + taxes, around $US800-$1200/hr + taxes. plus quite a few more rupees for fuel placement etc


Thats expensive for india...I don't think that india has same standards as the japs or Oz (where they have simillar rates)... :{

But then again, I think it has to do something with the taxes and the profit margin...:hmm:

[Rotonutz]

How many helicopter companies are there in Japan?? Maybe they get good rates because there is not the same undercutting or lowballing tactics that you see in other countries. :oh:

[moosp]

I can only support the points about Japanese maintenance. I have been flying into Japan for 30 years and their standards are very, very high. Ball achingly high sometimes, as you are delayed until a level of perfection is attained that in most countries and flight decks would have resulted in a "good enough, lets go" attitude, but I have never pushed them on that. If you have never experienced good Japanese aircraft line engineering, then before you die, do it.

But that is not the only story here. The extra cost of doing the maintenance "properly" as opposed to just OK does not explain the appalling costs of training helicopters in Japan.

You may have heard of the intermediation problems of Japanese industry. This means that between the spare part being dispatched from Torrance, and the part being fitted to the machine, and being certificated to fly again, there are many constituents that will take their cut, both government and commercial. It can lead to prices to change an oil filter being over ten times higher than doing it yourself under FAA or CASA, the two that I know.

Another strange aspect of helicopter operation and training in Japan which must be factored in to the overall cost is the legislation on training. I've posted this before so forgive me, but if you want to train an autorotation you have to file with the authorites. For one.

If you want to do another one, you have to land, re-apply (a couple of days) and get dispensation for the next. And so on. Which is why you get so many of these delightfully keen Japanese students in the US doing their CPLs.

There is much more. Hangarage, landing fees are all way above the rest of the world.

Look on this as your competitive advantage. If a country is so screwed that a service is way above the cost in the rest of the world, get in there and get their people out into your country. A helicopter school that I went to in Louisiana had half their students from Japan.

When the airfare from one country to another is cheaper than an hour in an R44, you can be sure that an arbitrage in the training market will occur.

[Bushfiva]

Some moons ago I did Yokohama-Tokyo (about 60km) for, if I remember, 168,000 yen, heliport to city. About a third of that was the landing fee in Tokyo. On the other hand, I've done scenic flights around Hakone for 1000 yen per person per minute.