Early Arrivals to Heathrow

[skyhighbird]

I've noticed that a lot of the early morning arrival flights (BA026 from Hong Kong for example) get in around 4.15am rather than the scheduled 4.50am.

If a flight is this early, is there a fine that has to be paid? Or is there an understanding that as long as there is a limited amount of flights this early, then all is fine?

Is there a limit on the earliest possible arrival. Can BA026 land at 3.30am if it had a good tail wind! lol

[Haven't a clue]

Nothing allowed to land until 04.32.

Was on BA26 a couple of weeks ago. We held on the ground at HKG for a while, because, the captain said, strong tailwinds were forecast. And then I guess we slowed down a bit, and landed, bang on 04.32.

[Dan Air 87]

Last year I was inbound on the VS Hong Kong- LHR and we were slowed down overhead Hamburg as we were going to arrive too early! Great though when you arrive; bags out very quickly and then straight home to bed!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Nothing allowed to land until 04.32. >>

I'd be interested to get the view of someone from Heathrow about that statement. If it is true, what happens to the night jet quota?

[Haven't a clue]

I would be interested too. My sources were a BA captain who is a chum, and the captain on the BA26. But then again they, and hence I, might be wrong.....

[Rainboe]

The night jet quota runs up to about 0600. Some airlines are given a season quota for landings overnight, so it is normally not a problem. But it is not unusual for the quota to start running lower than planned before the season end, and the company will try and reschedule (unofficially) flights outside 0600 arrivals, though this can cause problems with crew duty hours and passenger perception of 'delays'. Landings more than 45 minutes early get fines, as do overrunning night slots.

[TightSlot]

Thanks Rainboe - do you happen to know when the 'Season' runs to/from?

[angels]

I used to fly to and fro from Asia to LHR (usually from Hong Kong or Singapore) and always got flights that used the night landing slots. I never landed before 0430 local.

Now I live under the (usual) flight path for morning arrivals and am walking to the bus stop shortly before 0600. Some mornings you can see loads of planes stacked up over Essex champing at the bit to get in. Around 0555 or so they start peeling off and flying overhead on their way in.

Interesting that Dan Air got a VS flight from Honkers that was early, they were nearly always late when I was doing my travelling and I remember one occasion where they had to put into Rome to get a few more gallons of juice so that they could get home!

[Carnage Matey!]

If they were flying via Rome I'm not surprised they needed more gas? The normal route these days takes you over the Baltic, not the Med!

[Skylion]

Hong Kong-London routings via the old southern route ceased around 1996/7 when China allowed UK carriers the more direct northen routes though initially with frequency limitations. Flow control was initially a big problem ex Kai Tak as the airport closed at midnight which produced a serious bunching (and some creative calling for startup clearance) of particularly CX and BA departures after 2300. Going earlier produced unacceptably early arrivals at LHR so operators were stuck with a very narrow window for departures ex HKG. The introduction of Virgins slower flying A340-300s created another flow problem over China and Russia.
There were a number of variations of the southern route. The original and worst meant flying overhead the Med and Bangkok . Later a cutoff from Burma into southern China at Kunming was allowed and even later ones allowed a cutoff over Afghanistan via what was know as the Wakkhan corridor. The latter is still used by traffic from South East Asia and the Indian sub continent.
The UK gave a lot more attention to getting approval for the northern route from HKG over China/Mongolia/Russia route after the HKG Governor , Chris Patten, found himself at Munich early morning after 15 hrs 45 in the air from HKG and Lufthansa refusing to hold what would have been the first connection on to London for him.

[silly walks]

Tightslot.

The night quota season follows the changing of the clocks, so in 2 weeks the winter slate is wiped clean and the fun of the summer night slot quota starts.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

My query is whether night quota landings can take place before 0430? I worked a good few night shifts up to 6 years ago and was never aware of any pre-0430 restriction.

Pilots don't always know about such restrictions. I was flying into Heathrow early-morning some years ago. At about 05.30 as we passed Birmingham the pilot said: "It's very quiet so we should be straight in this morning". I whispered to my wife "Not a chance". A little later as we went round and round Bovingdon he claimed that ATC was delaying us. We were about the first to land after 6am! 'nuff said,

[Carnage Matey!]

In a word, No. Pre 0430 landings are emergency only. In my experience many at ATC are unaware of the restrictions and those that are aware don't know which aircraft have restrictions and which, which is why they usually ask us.

[Haven't a clue]

So I trawled the UKAIP which says..

All flights are at all times subject to PPR within the terms of the Heathrow Rule 1 Traffic Distribution Rules 1991. The filing of a flight plan
with NATS or receipt of an ATC clearance does not constitute permission to use London Heathrow.

So I guess no PPR before 04.30

Availability: H24, subject to the approval of the Managing Director, Heathrow Airport Ltd, and the acceptance of the flight by the co-ordinator
(Airport Co-ordination Ltd). The airport may be used also by aircraft other than those engaged on scheduled flights provided that prior
permission and a clearance number for each flight is obtained from the Managing Director Heathrow. Use is also subject to limitations
imposed by Night Noise Restrictions

No clearance numbers issued for arrival prior to 04.30?


Subject to sub-paragraphs (5) and (6) below, any aircraft shall, after take-off, be operated in such a way that it will not cause more than
89 dBA Lmax by night (from 2300 to 0700 hours local time) and, that it will not cause more than 87 dBA Lmax during the night quota
period (from 2330 to 0600 hours local time) as measured at any noise monitoring terminal at any of the sites referred to in subparagraph
(2) above.

Note - not landing?

There must be some other regulation out there. Pooley's (my bible) for some reason is silent on this subject....

[Musket90]

Not sure about any 0430 rule. The AIP supplements 36/2008 for winter 08/09 and supplement 08/2009 for summer 09 doesn't specify any 0430 restriction. The Airport Co-ordination (ACL) scheduling rules don't either. Maybe it's Ground Handling availability or airlines trying to stick closely to scheduled times as ACL monitor flight actual timings against schedules and can finanacially penalise airlines who blatantly and consistently operate significantly off schedule. Flights which are scheduled to land after 0600 local normally are not allocated night quota however if tailwinds etc means their ETA is earlier then they usually have to slow down en-route or hold in the stack so they land after 0600. If they didn't then the night quota would quickly run out. The quota useage is monitored regularly so it's use can be managed in such a way that it doesn't run out before season end. There is some flexibility allowed at end of season as detailed in the AIP supplement.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Yes, some of that early morning holding was crazy. I've seen traffic off the Atlantic hold for 45 minutes!

I too can find no reference to the 0430 restriction and assume it has been introduced since I retired as there were certainly movements in the middle of the night occasionally.

[DCS99]

Perfect summary from Skylion - didn't know the Chris Patten story, but doesn't surprise me.

The HKG-LHR routing is now direct Urumqi in North-West China.

Here's how it works in practise according to my Pivot Table.

Sample size 21:
Pre-Urumqi: longest Winter season HKG-LHR 14 hours 17 minutes airbourne.
Post-Urumqi: ditto - 13 hours exactly.

In '92, I saw a 15 hours 46 airbourne HKG-LHR, still have the print from FICO somewhere...

[skyhighbird]

Guys,

Picked my parents up from T5- BA026. When I checked BA flight status night before, it said estimated arrival time 4.07am.

Actual arrival (when I got home to check) was 4.32am. So I'm guessing 4.30 must be the earliest.

[Dan Air 87]

Another point here is that once you have landed at LHR is the early morning, if you are going into T4, you have to cut your engines when near the stands and then wait to be towed into the gate. It helps reduce the noise pollution for nearby residents.

[747-436]

Nothing allowed to land until 04.32.

I have seen the 0432 restriction as well, not sure where though. First heard of it in 2002 ish so must have been around a while.

[4engines4longhaul]

Over here at Virgin, we are more than well aware of the early morning restrictions. A bit picky I know but we are under the impression it is 4.30am and not 4.32. That said, it is not uncommon for us to delay our departure for up to 30mins to ensure we do not arrive before this time. For a Captain not to do this, and end up holding for 30mins would quite probably lead to a chat with the boss.
The VS201 from HKG is the only flight allowed to land before 6am, which can lead to departure delays on certain early arrivals, esp the VS22 from IAD, VS602 fm JNB, and the VS12 from Boston. There might be a JFK in there as well somewhere. The bottom line is that VS gets 365 pre 6am slots a year, or possibly a dozen more which have to be carefully managed.
Hope that helps and brgds

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

When I was working, donkeys years ago, we were told that the first lander after the curfew had to be at 6.01 as the BAA used their own timing and wouldn't accept times given by ATC!! As fas as ATC was concerned, the 6 o'clock lander could land at 05:59 and 31 seconds but the Jobsworths at BAA wouldn't have it!! Maybe the same applies to the 04:30 restriction, about which I know nothing.

[wiggy]

As far as I understand it it is 30 minutes past but the "32" is promulgated by Company notice so that those of us who use Casio's finest products don't bust the curfew by accident....similarly for the 0600 timings

Anyhow handling the SYD AM winter curfew is so much more entertaining :}...you used to be able to set your watch by the "Clear to Land 34 Left" call (just don't mention the tailwind :hmm:).

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<that those of us who use Casio's finest products don't bust the curfew by accident....similarly for the 0600 timings>>

But you don't even need a watch. The radar controllers are very well skilled in achieving accurate landing times after the curfew.