Will my Academic Qualifications effect my chance of employment?

[Rays]

Hi,

I'm 21 and left school with just 5 GCSE's grade A-C (Science was'nt one of them) the rest where crap bet let's not go into that. I then went on to college and got an NVQ level 2 in Catering. Why God only know's. I am currently doing my PPL (25 Hours logged) and after I complete my PPL I would love to take the modular route to gain a ATPL as this passion for flying has taken over my life. Bit sad I know.

But I'm concered that my lack of academic qualifications will stop me getting that all important first job.

Can any of you guy's help, would this be the case?

I have spoken to GAPAN about this and they more or less implied that perhaps I should look at doing something else before parting with my hard earnt cash but when I have spoken to FTO's like Oxford and Cabair they say it more about your training record then qualifications but then I guess they would say that as they would be more then willing to take my money!

[Reluctant737]

Rays,

I'm a bit pushed for time buddy, but to sum it up, I have 8 GCSEs A-C and I'm now flying the 737NG for a major carrier.

You'll get no end of replies to this (or maybe not, as it has been covered recently... check out the threads on whether to take a degree or not).

Your 5 GCSEs will not be a problem, and to answer your question directly, it 'may' affect career prospects within certain airlines.

Ta, Ad

[quant]

"Will my Academic Qualifications effect my chance of employment?"


nope ;)

[cc2180]

It wont, but it should.

[Bealzebub]

It is not about employment, it is about being interviewed for employment.

If you have a type rating and plenty of relevant experience, an employer may have less regard for your school leaving record of achievement.

If you are one of the thousands of hopeful inexperienced applicants for one of the very few jobs available within a company, then they need a way of whittling the lists down to managable levels. One of the most common ways is to use the academic achievements to produce some sort of shortlist, which will then be whittled down further to provide a list of potential applicants for interview.

This is as distinct from being "interviewed" for a sales pitch for some company out to sell you a type rating.

Those that think otherwise or tell you otherwise are simply deluding you.

Nothing to stop you using the time interval to improve your educational grades in parallel with your flight training, or whatever else you choose to do.

[skyhighbird]

Rays, ill be straight with you.

5 GCSE's "rest were crap" and an NVQ in Catering won't get you a job as a floor manager at Morrisons.

But the old school ppruners are right about one thing- if you do the fATPL training, then no one should care about the past.

However, A-Levels must be a bare minimum in this day and age. No arguments. Listen to a young one like me rather than old schoolers- all your peers will have A-levels. My advice is to either go back to school and get a further education/higher level education qualification.

This is for one reason and one reason only: You need to get an interview. Dont think about the job at the moment. Think about the interview. At the end of your fATPL, your CV will read:

5 GCSE's A-C
NVQ Catering
250hr ME/IR MCC

You will not get anywhere near the top of the pile of 1000+CVs sitting on the top of a desk in a recruitment room. Sorry, but thats the fact.

Beezlebub is right - the biggest aim is to get an interview. Right now, getting the job is simply a bonus!!

[Phantasm]

However, A-Levels must be a bare minimum in this day and age. No arguments.

Rubbish.

Rays, if you want to become a pilot, become a pilot. Sitting in a classroom for two years learning calculus aint going to help you achieve that.

I know a 'CV sifter' in this industry personally, and I know at his airline they are trained to disregard academic qualifications and focus primarily on flying experience, work experience and CV presentation. There is nothing an airline interviewer hates more than an overly educated bore who can't fly an aeroplane.

So do yourself a favour, and achieve your dreams man! No one can take that away from you, we're aviators, not accountants :ok:

[quant]

However, A-Levels must be a bare minimum in this day and age. No arguments.

Rubbish. As a low hours pilot they are more interested in how you did in ground school and most importantly hours.

If you are applying for a mentored scheme at one of the FTO's then yes you will need A-levels or something equivalent but that's it.

Good luck and dont worry about academic qualifications. The A-levels in my opinion have gone down the drain since i took them 10+ years ago. Every tom dick and harry has them now just like degrees.

[reverserunlocked]

Rays, I wouldn't worry too much about bits of paper. Getting to where you want to be is the main thing. That said, I might repectfully suggest that you look at improving your spelling and grammar. It's 'affect' not 'effect' in this context and you have a couple of rogue 'butcher's apostrophes' in your post too. If a C.V sifter has reservations about your educational attainments then perhaps it is best not to make things worse with a poorly written covering letter.

Please don't think I'm being a smart ar5e by saying this, either. In the current job market you don't want anything to let you down.

[ford cortina]

Right I am a 737 driver, 7 O Level's..... My best mate is a 757 driver in the UK, he has no O Levels or CSE's, the first Training Captain I ever flew with in a 737, in the UK, had left school with no exams behind him.
All of us are around 40 and my mate and myself got into this business in the past few years. So the argument is utter utter rubbish

But than what do those of us who are working know compared to young wannabe's:ok:

[skyhighbird]

I will not back down on this argument (says the wannabee who knows nothing apart from what she's read on pprune :}).

The discussion has changed from "do academic qualifications effect (sic) my chances of employment " to "do my academic qualifications effect(sic) my changes of getting an interview".

If you go by the advice senior prruners, every cadet and his mum will complete flight training in 2012 - "thats when things will be all rosy,...".

Each of the thousand odd applicants will have 250 (approx) hours.

How do you filter? Call each one in, give them a sim check and have a interview with them? Yeah I wish.

We are all told that CV's must be kept to one page without the "team player, I'm pro active , passionate about flying...zzzzzz", bulls*it.

So the top of the page will be the only thing looked at. name, address, hours, ratings, academic qualifications.

So its up to you.

Go with the 5 GCSE's A-C "rest were crap", NVQ catering, 250hrs CV or get yourself a FE/HE qualification first.

Reverserunlocked said that "you shouldn't worry about bits of paper too much".

surprisingly he contradicts himself by saying:

"Please don't think I'm being a smart ar5e by saying this, either. In the current job market you don't want anything to let you down"

Unfortunately, having 5 GCSEs A-C, rest were crap and a catering qualification will let you down. I'd bet my fATPL funds thart out of 1000 CVs sitting on a desk, the majority will have A-levels and or a degree.

Anyone willing to wager otherwise?

[Vems]

That's why I'm going for HND aircraft engineering next year.

Education is somehow important, and if you have let's say, A Levels (maths for example!) , it will probably be easier for you when you do your ATPLs. As a low houred pilot it does matter, I think, at least for most airlines. But once you have 10K hours in your logbook, it probably won't matter as much, also depends on the company you'll be applying to.

[belleh]

I'd bet my fATPL funds thart (sic ;)) out of 1000 CVs sitting on a desk, the majority will have A-levels and or a degree.

I don't think this is in dispute here, rather the point being that it isn't necessarily going to be a career killer. Sure, it's not going to add any bonus points, but the people in the industry right now can cite examples of pilots (some in senior positions no less) who don't have any 'pieces of paper' attached to their name.

Thus, when you said

However, A-Levels must be a bare minimum in this day and age. No arguments.

it's clear that this just isn't true. You almost certainly meant it in the context of '250 hour cadet with a shiny new fATPL looking for a FO jet job', but at the moment that statement would hold pretty much throughout the market, regardless of A-Levels or a degree.

However, the OP asked in regards to 'that all important first job'. Clearly, 25 hours into a PPL, s/he's not going to be in that situation any time soon (read: in the current job market), so those considerations aside for now, that 'first job' could be anything. Remember, being a pilot isn't just flying something with 2-4 jet engines. Sure, the progression from fATPL to jet job might be somewhat longer than it may otherwise have been, but logic and many examples dictate that if the end goal is really there, the OP does not need to go and sit in a classroom for 2 years for something unrelated to aviation.

Note that I say this as someone currently looking towards an MSc, so I'm not arguing from the 'no qualifications' side of the fence.

As many have pointed out though Rays, your writing is one of the main representations of yourself that you have at your disposal when you're making an impression via words rather than in person. So, in the interests of projecting yourself professionally, maturely and intelligently (and this holds regardless of career or objectives) you need to make sure that it's as good as it possibly can be. Yours could very realistically improve; we all make mistakes, but I can see from your post that you make more than the average wannabe/pilot/any professional. So what I would suggest, is some kind of practise or course with your spelling, punctuation and grammar. That will likely do far more for you than 3 A-Levels ever will.

[ford cortina]

Skyhighbird, yes I will wager against you and it is not personal; just a bit more life experience.
I got my first job on the 737 and NO questions asked about my O Levels taken over 20 years ago. Same for my best mate who is a 757 Driver for a very well known LoCo in Manchester.
Having qualifications is always going to be helpful, especially when you are younger and have less life experience.
If you are 18 and go to BA or similar then yes they will look at your exam results, but if you want to fly as an instructor or do some bush flying it is not as important.
Outside the UK O'levels, GCSE's etc don't mean much.
Best of luck, I am off to Italy
FC

[skyhighbird]

Ford Cortina,

for us "younger and less life experience" who I believe may make up the majority of the 1000 CVs on the desk, how will we be filtered?

At your age and others in their 30's 40's, academic qualifications are exactly that - academic. Doesn't matter and shouldn't. But to the 19-25 batch, academic qualifications are important - surely? Especially in this climate?

I'd love to write a CV with more than a few lines describing who I am but as we are constantly told, we simply have to keep it down to a page.

New Personal Question:

Would previous job Hedgefund Analyst affect my chance of employment?:confused:

Or is it best to say I've spent the last 4 years since A-levels trecking around the Amazon?

[mad_jock]

I would say Amazon purely on the bais that you will have something interesting to speak about in your interview.

Also as well the general feel I have seen from my limited exposure to recruiting pilots is that anyone with any city financial services on there CV goes straight into the bin and doesn't even get put in the maybe pile.

And with this current climate I should imagine they will be even less in vogue.

There are guys I have worked with who don't have a qualification to there name apart from City and Guilds.
I have never had my educational qualifications asked about or checked. My license and log book however have always been checked.

If you decide to put a photo on your CV for gawds sake don't wear your mirrored aviator's :p :)

[Ten West]

...There is nothing an airline interviewer hates more than an overly educated bore who can't fly an aeroplane.

That's my future career plans down the toilet then. :(

Just kidding. Fortunately I have the ideal background for Ground Ops. And I love it there! :ok:

[skyhighbird]

Mad jock, (city financial services CV straight in the Bin)

I knew that would be the answer. I can cleverly hide my job title into something else. Naturally at the interview the truth will come out. But my charm would have got me the job by then anyway :p

I keep hearing about this photo attachment and I'm not sure if its a windup. Do airlines actually ask for a photo attached to a CV? (enough with the glasses hehe)

[mad_jock]

Some do some don't. If they don't I would recommend you don't attach one.

Once you have got to the interview stage you are more than 90% of the way there. In some companys you already have the job, the interview and sim ride are just checks they haven't chosen some knobber who can't fly.

It quite amusing after you have been on PPrune a bit you can spot some of the posters when you have a gander at the pile of CV's.