Am I kidding myself..?

[DB777]

Right, i've just turned 30 and am about 20hrs into my ppl course.
I love it, seriously love it, becoming quite obsessed actually. When i'm not working i'm on here and other various sites, reading my training books or flight simmin' (just to keep the momentum going)! I am, of course, hoping to pursue it full-time, in any employed capacity.
The whole 'boyhood dream' thing lingered for years and thanks to recent eye-surgery it has/could become reality.

I run a business that, so far, has avoided the teeth of the recession, so with a bit of luck will be able to continue financing this for the foreseeable future. I am married, and we're expecting baby 'Sully' (lol) later in the year.

Based on these factors I am planning/hoping to gain my fATPL in around 3 years (2012).

By the time I get my wings i'll be 33/34. I am hoping the industry will be looking up a little by then and there will be a few more jobs around. However, I see Fo's and Cpt's that are early twenties, with fewer commitments, bight-eyed and bushy-tailed, with more 'service life' in them and I have to ask myself; 'if I was recruiting for an airline, would I want the younger, more energetic and adaptable candidate or the father-of-xx who fancied a career-change in his mid-30s!?'

Are there any people a similar situation to myself, or any that have been there and decided against it or even achieved it? If so am very interested to hear your thoughts!

Thanks in advance.

[maxdrypower]

Mate this sounds very much like "The Perpetual am I too old "Thread which is perhaps why you havent receieved any responses . I would have look at that matey , it will save you getting very sarcastic and sometimes uncalled for abuse

[Reluctant737]

Good evening DB777,

Well, I am your early twenties (20, to be precise), with fewer commitments, bight-eyed and bushy-tailed FO, so perhaps I can offer some insight based on what I've seen.

I have seen people your age nurture their ambition out of its shell and take the plunge into flight training. I have then watched them fail, due to financial, personal, family, or generally circumstantial issues.

I have seen people aged 17 nurture their ambition out of its shell and take the plunge into flight training. I have then watched them fail, due to financial, personal, family, or generally circumstantial issues.

Now re-write those two sentences in ANY way you wish, and they still hold truth. You can take any mix of people involved in this industry (or looking to get involved) and there will be those who make it and those who don't, whatever their age.

To give you a short concise answer to your question, no, you are not kidding yourself.

Your age is no problem whatsoever, so you can stop worrying about that.

As a businessman, I'm sure you keep a sharp watch on what the Economic phugoid is up to, and THAT is what you want to be watching.

2012 - personally, I think if you qualify then the situation may be marginally better than it is now, but not a great deal. I think a more realistic time to plan on finishing is 2013/2014, especially as you have a family, which is something else to watch! There are countless horror stories about how training for this profession can seriously screw up your home life, and it's really up to you how you deal with that. For this reason, I would suggest modular training (which is also cheaper and can be spread out), but again, that's a personal decision for you.

Remember, even if the economy is on the rise when you qualify, there is still a large influx of qualified pilots to soak back into the game before the new guys get a look in. You may be offered a job by us (Ryanair), but that's another 30k euros out your pocket.

Sure, there are plenty of other flying jobs dotted around - aerial work, glider towing, bush flying/air taxi so on so forth, but I'm going on the basis that you have a family and a business to support.

So to summarise my opinion to you - Train modular because it's cheaper, can be spread out over a longer time period and allows you to plan around your work/family lives. Aim for late 2012 at the EARLIEST to qualify, unless you could comfortably finance licence renewals out of your own pocket until you find a job. And to reiterate, your age is absolutely not a problem. I know people who started in their late 40s flying the big iron these days!

I suppose the most important point to make, is have fun! :ok:

ta, ad

[DB777]

Good, constructive feedback, thanks.

[disco87]

The best time to qualify seems to get further and further away, why did I go to university!!

[Reluctant737]

That's only my personal opinion, based on the safest bet so to speak.

There are guys out there who would tell you to train now because it'll probably be ok in a year. They may be right, but it's the less likely outcome. See, if you were single, unconnected etc etc I'd probably say crack on with it nice and slowly right away and be done in 12-18 months, because if you're prepared to go out with a backpack and get knocking on 101 doors around the world (i.e. Africa) you'll probably find some fellow who needs somebody to fly an aeroplane somewhere in exchange for some cash, and for him it's first come first serve if he/she likes you.

But then again,

Who knows......

[disco87]

Hmmm yea I suppose your right. Good thing is that I am single and unconnected and minted (ok last bit isn't true). I am not really in a possition to start anthing untill early 2010 anyway. But then again you are right, who knows..... I wish someone did.

[TLBird]

Db77- Good advice from Reluctant 737.

I was 30 when I got my first airline job. Started training at 25. I did it the modular way and did it as I could afford it it was a long hard slog but I love it and still think it was worth it.
However I am now faced with redundancy (round 2) and am looking at working abroad.
In have a very supportive partener. No kids but I have rented my house out as I moved a few hundred miles to accept my first job.
Food for thought if you have a family.

If the job market is good when you qualify you could walk straight into a jet job .I did.
If the job market is poor it could be a rather long wait for anything.

[DB777]

Good luck with it all TLBird - Good to hear some positivity.
(the doom monger's must be waiting in the 'wings'...)

[Deano777]

DB777

I obtained my 1st airline job when I was 34, and that was 18 months ago. If I can do it then trust me anyone can.

PM me if you want some support

D777

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Age isn't the barrier it once was. Few airlines now expect to recruit and retain pilots for an entire career and desire a 30 year timeframe as they they once did. Anything under 40 wouldn't be an issue. There's a well trodden path of people in their mid to late 30's leaving the career seeking to start and civil career.

Good luck, but don't rush and manage your debt conservatively.

WWW

[spitfirebbmf]

Don't worry I will be starting my training in the middle of 2013 (There should be a change in the economy by then !!), I will be 44 (46 when finished), there are jobs available even at this age and older.:ok:

[DB777]

All positive feedback (not always expected on here)

Sometimes a little inspiration is good to hear to help clear the cloud from the horizon, I may pester you for more in the future ;-)

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Lots of good advice here sir.

If I can just add to the comments. As many of the PPRUNERS have indicated, your age is not really an issue, Like others, I got my first airline job at the age of 32.

From your circumstances, it look like you are perfectly placed, with a thriving business, financial security, and have your feet firmly on the ground. I am sure you know this already, but the course takes a certain degree of commitment from you and understanding from your partner when you are going through ATPL air law and tearing your hair out :ugh:.

All the best with it, I have said this numerous times on PPRUNE, but its a great job and certainly beats working for a living.

[G SXTY]

Agreed. In fact on a good day it's not a job at all - it's just two mates going flying. :ok:

I escaped from a 'career' in shipping and got an airline job aged 36, and I know plenty of others with similar stories.

[DB777]

CAT3C AUTOLAND, too true.
From the countless thread and posts i've read, it seems to be a balancing act of finances/time/aptitude ...and skill. I'm already struggling to find the time to read and i'm only at ppl stage!
I'm considering taking an aptitude test (Is there one on BALPAs site?), it's all very well (potentially) having finances but, like you say, even now i'm beginning to understand the commitment and self-motivation it takes whilst working etc.

It'll all be worth it if/when it's achieved.

G-SXTY; the wife already blames you for my obsession – she's read your very well informed posts (the same that reignited my ambition). I'll take this opportunity to thank you, and everyone else, for taking the time to post them. (Glad you're still enjoying life at FlyBe!)

[G SXTY]

That's okay, my missus blames me for everything as well.

I'd wholeheartedly recommend GAPAN's aptitude tests (which are aimed at zero to very low-houred candidates, so get in before your experience builds up too much). Unlike the schools, GAPAN aren't trying to sell you anything, so the tests are about as objective and unbiased as it's possible to be. They use the RAF's officer and aircrew selection facilities at Cranwell, so you'd be tapping into an enormous amount of experience.

[Return-On-Investment]

Hi DB777,

I am in a similar situation to you but a bit older at 35. After doing a lot of research and thanks to the help and advice from a particularly helpful PPRUNER I realised that there were 2 main things that were beyond my control:-

My ability to pass a Class 1 medical & my natural aptitude. I passed the Class 1 medical at Gatwick in January this year and did the GAPAN aptitude tests 2 weeks ago with zero hours flying experience.

I can wholeheartedly recommend the GAPAN aptitude tests. I really enjoyed the day and it was great to be able to go to RAF Cranwell and do the actual RAF aptitude tests. The day is run by dedicated commercial pilots from GAPAN that have given up their time to give impartial advice to wannabe pilots like us whether we are likely to succeed or not.

You will have a 1-2-1 interview after the tests at the end of the day and mine was with a recently retired airline Captain that was involved in the recruitment of new pilots. This is a golden opportunity to ask about any questions or concerns you have. I asked about my age and he told me that in his opinion he would see it as an advantage as I have a track record in a successful career to date and would have experiences/evidence to talk about as a result in the interview.

Overall the GAPAN assessment day has given me the confidence that based on the massive experience of GAPAN that I can make it and I don't feel I could have got this anywhere else.

I am now 8 hours into my PPL and loving it. I plan to keep the day job, get my PPL then spend 18 months or so doing the ATPL exams distance learning whilst building hours and see how things look then.

[DB777]

SOLD. WIll book it shortly...
Thanks R-O-I

[JohnRayner]

Afternoon,

Good thread this, and reassuring for all those slightly older folks who are thinking about potting their current careers and trying something else!

It's interesting to note that the "am I too old?" thread is the third most viewed and replied to thread on this forum. Makes me wonder just how many older wannabes (and pilots who qualified later) there are out there :hmm:

Regards.

JR

[Ten West]

Just an outsider's viewpoint here, but...

OP: If you have a successful business, financial security, and a good home life - why would you want to jeopardise it all to join the current airline rat race?

I only say this because I had a mate who was a very successful plumber who loved skiing.
His ambition was to jack it in and go off to the mountains to be a professional ski instructor.
He did it. He regretted it. he spent all day paddling about in the slush taking beginner groups when what he should have done was what we all said in the first place, which was to work damn hard all summer and take the winter off, rent a flat in France and ski for fun!

You love flying. I don't blame you! How about keeping your current business and proceed on to aerobatics for a hobby, or become an instructor?

When you start doing something you love for a living that's when the fun can start to go out of it.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do though. :ok:

[G SXTY]

When you start doing something you love for a living that's when the fun can start to go out of it.


Not for me it hasn't. Or for any other pilot I know. I miss my job when I go on holiday - how sad is that? Yes, I know I've only been doing it a year and am still full of the joys of spring, but I fly regularly with a couple of skippers who started out when I was in nappies, and they still love it as well.

It gets under your skin, this game.

[ea340]

DB777
Very good friend of mine left IT at 42 and started flying today he has a good corporate job and loves it . He will never return to a 9 to 5 job good luck .

[willisp]

DB777,

Well done for starting a positive thread - I salute you.:ok:

Good luck to you mate. I'm pretty much in the same postion as you (have just passed my GFPT taking my first passenger up on Saturday!).

I think its a good idea to take the advice of some of the seasoned guys on here and take your time - 30(ish) isn't that old!

willisp

[Llen]

I can't believe this thread - it's so refreshing!!!!

I'm in a very similar position, 34, good job but not my passion, already have a PPL gained in south africa. I regularly pop into PPRUNE and read lots of negative stuff about the older wanabees and the current climate.

It makes me question what I'm doing but this thread has given me the reassurance that I am doing the right thing!!

I've just begaun distance learning with Bristol GS - my target is completion by Jan 2011. I think this is reasonable given the job situation and balancing full time work, commute, life, etc.

Also just had first flight in over a year with Aeros at Filton (can highly recommend them). Plan to fly 3 hours every month. By Jan 2011 will have the required 150 hours to start CPL, etc.

Also, this period will allow me to save about 3/4 of the money to complete the training.

I think with a positive attitude and commitment it certainly can be done (as many before have proved) and I think us older wanabees can offer other softer skills that perhaps the younger whipper snappers may not possess.

Good luck to you all

Llen

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

DB777,

It's not a bad idea going to sit the aptitude tests. Personally, I did not, but looks as of G-SXTY is providing sound advice on it. From a personal view, I think if you have a reasonable understanding of mathematics and physics at a GCSE level and are willing to work you ass off while doing the ground school and flying you will be fine. There are obviously some personality attributes required as well, which most people will have.

G-SXTY comments are so true, in the respect of getting to work, if you can call it that, printing off the journey log, and knowing you are flying with a sound Captain, it really is a day out flying with a £50 million pound toy to play with, in the most professional way of course. It still makes me laugh, when you are briefing and skipper says 'do you want to drive to Amsterdam, or bring it back?' :). It's great.

Anyway, I digress, once again all the best with it, enjoy your PPL.

[DB777]

...if I can train to fly as well as I can write a positive spread i'll be ok ;)

Ten West, good question; like Llen said, my current job/business is good but not my passion. From my early teens I was told i'd never fly because of a (once) bad astigmatism, 3yrs ago the caa changed the regs regarding refractive surgery. Long story short, I had it... i'm having the final surgery for that tomorrow infact!
Slowly, the motivation for what I do is being overtaken by the motivation to fly (in whatever capacity), now that I can pursue it I am feeling a new wave of excitement & energy has come over me which I haven't felt since I left college!

I don't know for certain yet if i'm going to want to follow this as a career, all I know is to keep learning until I feel content. i'm certainly ready for a career change.
By all accounts, some of the threads i've read on here really don't promote passion, and maybe i'm naive, but doing a walkaround @ 5am in a blizzard DOES actually sound appealing to me at the moment!

I like to believe the the sheer cost and time commitment of training to be a pilot filters out the individuals who pursue it for wrong or misguided reasons – who knows, I could be one of them.
I know, and people close to me know, that i need to give it a good shot – I've either got to feed or phase out this obsession!

willisp; The advice on here is golden. People can say want they want about the negativity, but at least posters are guaranteed some honest feedback from a broad range of individuals.
Not sure about other students on here, but being able to find an actual qualified or commercial pilot who wants to chat about it out of work hours is very difficult!

I've had some great feedback from this thread, and got the answer that, let's face it - I wanted! Thanks for everyones input. Good luck with your endeavors.

DB

[G SXTY]

DB777

I would say that your mature and well-balanced attitude to changing career and the pros and cons of commercial training is one of the keys to success. It will stand you in good stead.

I'm sure you don't need telling, but making it to the airline world can be an extremely tough game, and one at which many people fail - for all sorts of reasons. I wasn't born wanting to fly, and it was always a finely balanced decision whether to carry on with training or stick to the safe, boring comfort zone which I knew so well. Several times I came close to giving up, and I'm sure you'll face similar challenges as you progress - it's perfectly normal.

All I can say is that I'm so glad I followed my heart (with my head in sometimes reluctant agreement!) and stuck with it. With a lot of commitment and not a little luck, I landed a dream job. If the dice had rolled differently, it might not have happened and I could be just another out of work 200hr CPL, with no realistic prospect of a job for several years. Would my advice be the same then? Frankly I doubt it.

What I'm trying to get across is that the ability to stand back and look objectively at your situation is very important. To understand where you are, where you want to be, how you plan to get there, and what you will do if it all goes pear-shaped. I suspect you have that ability.

Best of luck.

P.S. The novelty of O'dark hundred walkrounds in the snow quickly wears off!

[Return-On-Investment]

Having been through all the emotions, pros/cons and worrying about my age etc. for me it came down to the fact that if I did not start training towards being a commercial pilot I could guarantee that I wouldn't ever have a chance of becoming one.

If I do get my fATPL I will have a chance to become a commercial pilot however small that may be depending on the economic conditions at the time. The great thing about the GAPAN assessment day was that I was told by a real life training Captain that my chance could be better than I thought...

Thanks again to the actual commercial pliots on here that willingly give up their time to help us older wannabees - I really appreciate it:)

All the best to everyone.

[smith]

I can't believe this thread - it's so refreshing!!!!

Personally I think he's too old and with the state of thhe economy the way it is its going to be a looooooooooong time befor any jobs come along and also integrated is better than modular and training in Spain is better than UK or USA and don't even start unless you have Ray-ban aviators and a breitling 420c :O:D;)

Oh come on someone had to put a spanner in the works it was all far too positive for pprune ha ha

[Francie81]

My take on the man's story is he needs to relax and enjoy (which he is) to see where it leads to, no point in looking down the road or thinking what might have being, and even if you don't make it soo what atleast you can boast that you hold a PPL/ATPL (whatever the case may be) license surely many a people whom you probably know would never dream of YET still achievable. I find myself in a similiar sort of position (27) and also set to take the plunge into flying and I am already in a good financial position, single, living at home, little or no bills, don't smoke or barely drink and can save guts of atleast 5K a year on my wage yet I still get negative thoughts because of the the way the industry is going and the fact I work in a factory which is never a lifetime job in most cases, I plan in taking a trial flight at the start of summer and I will know if its something I really want to do. But if you ask me you sound like your very enthusiastic about your flying at running a business and being a family man at the same time says alot for ambition. Best of luck

[XXPLOD]

Well, I have a bonkers idea that I might have a second career in a RH seat of something (anything) once I've retired. I'm a police officer, so I'll have a jolly nice 2/3 final salary pension aged 52. I have a PPL and c150 hours at the moment. If I can still pass a Class 1 medical, I might just do the CPL/ME/IR & MCC and go for it. Plan B would be to instruct, and so if I didn't get a RH seat (because every company thought I was a grey haired old fart) then it wouldn't bother me, I'm sure I'd enjoy the experience of the courses and I'd still be perfectly happy.

[mycrease]

Similar situation here. I am a cop, but after 10 years of security and decent pay I got my NPPL (fixed wing microlights) last September. I don't think I can hack another 20 years of frustration and disillusionment in the justice system.
I found true contentment flying for pleasure in my Thruster. Now, just having to save every spare penny in this recession to put towards the start of an PPL.

Anyone else been in the same situation?

[ReallyAnnoyed]

Just remember that you MUST be professional enough to accept that your captain may well be quite a bit younger than you on the flight deck.

[Alfredo tp]

You are NOT too old, buddy!
I started with 20 my PPL, but stopped there. At 27 could finally 'continue', and did everything, incl. instructor, etc., even seaplane! Now I am a full ATP, and flying B737, and I am becoming 31 this year. Most of the time, nobody cares if you are around the 30s. A friend of mine, he got the same job as I do, and he is 42! And we are with our current 737 job since Sept. '08. And seriously, nobody ever gave us negative points because of our age. So, don't worry too much. Even if there will be some 'smart' guys/companies, saying you are too old, ... but life wise, correct decision making, etc., comes with maturity, something that most companies really want, you are better off then a 17 year old boy (And no offense against those young teens, ...)
And that is not my opinion, but what I have seen. Then, some companies just want some kids, to push them around.
And if you are F/O, and your Captain is 10 years younger, don't worry; he is a captain because he deserved it, because he knows his stuff, etc., forget the age thing.
Don't worry, you are at good age!

[henris protegei]

it sounds like you know at u are doing m8.
im 22 and have just started my ppl in the midlands, the weather being much better than in my native leeds. i was bord in my ales job and decided to do the ppl full time at my old mans so to keep costs low.
aim to go to oxford at end of year or early next, wanting a tatse of wat is to come by doing the ppl.
hoping by time im 25 to have complted the 18 month course and see what the market is like.
best of luck:ok: