Is Emirates getting so sick...??

[boeingdream787]

Here's someting I just read.....
I just wanted to put forward this discussion I had with a bloke in ops.

He was telling me how the carrier was losing millions daily and how the expansion plans are starting to bite them in the back and drag them down now.

Interestingly, he also mentioned that there is a complete gag order on the senior board so that they don't spread negative financial publicity about the airline.

This raises 2 interesting questions:

1. Dubai's ruling family claims that EK has been profitable for the last 20 years. Can this version of their account book be believed?

2. What is going to be the fate of :

150x787, 350
45x380
60x777
30x330
60x737

Besides you can physically see that there are fewer people in Dubai. The malls are empty, construction projects have been put on hold indefinitely, blue collar labour returning home, etc.
The EK 77W I flew to KWI yesterday had just 18 people on board! And it was the premium evening flight at that.

[A300Man]

Wow - a 77W with only 18 passengers on board is not so good! A friend of mine recently operated a Manchester flight with only 43 passengers on board as well. That's not a normal scene on a Manchester flight.

Having said that, all of my recent flying has been on much emptier aeroplanes as well. Loads are generally down across the globe, I would say. The only routes where - as a passenger - I am still seeing full loads in premium cabins are Dubai to India (mainly Delhi and Mumbai). Still difficult to get a seat on those.

[Capt.Bee]

Dreamer,couple of weeks ago you wrote Sigapore Airlines' obituary, now it's Emirates. Who's next client/corpse down the alley my friend!!! Please let us all know not to forward our CVs. Thank you. :D

[White Knight]

Complete drivel... Besides Feb/early March is LOW season...

[Fubaliera]

Even if they are losing money, look at Gulf Air still surviving and actually growing again. Al the shieks and rulers can say whatever they want, but EK and EY merger will happen someday.

[Miles Gustaph]

Feb/March when the temperature in Dubai is the most clement of the the year low season... lol, White Knight your having a laugh... try the BA flights that are full, four times a day....

[GMDS]

That must be why BA announced shrinking, losses and eventual layoffs yesterday. Must be the good loads and yields.
Everyone's suffering and we seem to have some new clowns around here. :ugh:

[S.F.L.Y]

try the BA flights that are full, four times a day....

Yeah full on one way flights... back home.

[White Knight]

Yes - low season with all the kiddies in school, not hard to figure out:ugh:

[atiuta]

Those new to pprune should be aware that boeingdream787 is a pathological liar with a long history of contradictory posts.

Seriously, the poor bugger is ill and just doesn't know it.

For the record, the KWI flight was not crewed by this individual (he doesn't work for EK) and the actual loads were over 90%.

[kingoftheslipstream]

wetdream787...

yer numbers fer the EK fleet are incorrect fer starters.

I ain't gonna do the history on yer posts, ya seem like a peckerhead to me.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Just checked the numbers and atiuta is right. The KWI loads looks similar (choc-a) for the rest of the week.

[White Knight]

And A300man - 'goat' airways might only have 18 to MAN but EK's running these big 777s full to northern England:ok:

[zerozol]

hi all!

just an article: Laid-off foreigners flee as Dubai declines - International Herald Tribune (http://iht.com/articles/2009/02/12/africa/12dubai.php)

interesting. i don't suppose Herald Tribune as a fake journal... so maybe EK will be touched by the crisis. okey, apparently not so much as boeingdream787 supposes, but still, if you leave behind all the PR-stuff articles of EK's growth, there are interesting questions like: if the economy of Dubai is in free fall, what will fuel EK's flights, if eu-asia is also suffering (means lesser travels)... this is just a question, i don't know how will the global crap hitting EK.

i read on an EK crew's blog that an LHR flight was 1/3 full, and other eu-flights are lacking full cabins in these weeks. true or not, quite believable.

and don't attack boeingdream787. cool down, let's begin to think together, peep! :)

z

[PositiveRate876]

Only because a cabin is full, doesn't mean the flight is profitable.
And vice versa.

[desertopsguy]

I agree with the last few posters, ticket price is only part of the equation. Some years back when Ryanair had in and around 100 aircraft and 650 sectors /day I was told by a guy who works there that in flight sales revenues across the fleet came in on average at about 400,000 Eur / Day!

Those numbers, broken down, mean each pax only has to spend a measely 3.25 Eur while on board. I've seen some drink all the way to home, spending up to 50quid!

Sometimes more; sometimes less, but that'll pay a lot of overheads if you multiply by 365.

D.O.G

[boeingdream787]

@ atda****aha and kingofthedrip,
You guys are surely some entry level managment type superseeded (super)frustrated FO's who are trying oh so hard to protect your boss's instructions at the gag that you forgot to read the first line of my post....
" Here's something I just read....."
And if you don't unnerstand basic english,how on earth did EK employ u in the first place!
Well,that's how the cookie crumbles....:)
And BTW those figures are bang on.Care to check......
P.S-I never said I worked for EK.Neither did I ever say I operated the said flight.I unfortunately (AND regrettably) hire people like YOU for EK for a living!
:cool:

[ATCO1962]

OK, I'll bite. Where'd you get those numbers for the EK fleet, boeingdream787? They don't seem to tally with all my sources.

[boeingdream787]

Ok here's some breaking news.......
" Here's something I just read......."
Its open for dialogue........ITS NOT MY STORY.....!!
Or are u another 'at da **** aha' kinda dude.....
With a lower IQ than the size of ur equatorial waist........in meters....!! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Schibulsky]

And BTW those figures are bang on.Care to check......
was that also something you "just read"??:eek:
After others who do work for EK said they are wrong...I think you pulled the figures out of a dark place south of your equatorial waist :uhoh:

[Instant Hooligan]

Boeingdream(er) can you please tell us uninformed people what it was you "edited" in your original post at 11.30 today! The sceptical among us would say it was the part about "here's what i just read"?
Regards
IH

[montencee]

Here's something I just read

Can somebody help me please.I had appeared for a B777 F/O interview with EK in Dubai approx 11 months back.Did'nt get thru......... .Dunno why.

It was posted by boeingdream787 on 17th August 2005.

[ATCO1962]

This is kind of fun:ok: What else do you want to tell us boeing? I'm really happy to align myself with the great unwashed if your group is the alternative. Bring it on!!

[Capt.Bee]

Guys, please chill out. This dreamer is a perpetual wannabe. He's bashing a good number of established air carriers, where he had most likely been rejected. Just ignore him. :ok:

[boeingdream787]

Its called :
" Find more posts by boeingdream787"
Just in case u were silly enuff not to discover that function of Pprune right from Feb 2006.Just like u would miss out the opening line of someone's thread I suppose.
Well,now onto bigger n better platforms in life.....
Oh BTW-we're watching u Capt.HS....
ATCO....get ur "queens grammar" correct. Again.Or u'll have some trouble on the mike d next time u issue those garbled dept clearances...
I know mine's scre**d from talking to guyz like u.....lol.
'nuff said..
Chin up guyz.Its not the end.Its only the titanic.....:ouch:
PS-And now my opening thread's been "edited" again at 1348hrs.So what does THAT tell u my dear Watson??
Stick to the topic at hand and don't let ur personal bias show in your babblings on this thread.Read,register and then react.Unlike what u do in ur sims and/or in daily life.......react,register and then maybe read!

[SOPS]

This just gets better and better:ok:

[ATCO1962]

OK, sticking to the topic at hand....answer the question, boeing. Where did you get those numbers for the EK fleet? An answer, if you will, for your friendly,native English speaker ATCO1962.:hmm:

[boeingdream787]

Just something I read ATCO.
And they are,in all probability incorrect,but they ARE something I quoted from what I read in an obviously not so reliable forum.
Do u realise how easy it is to get the correct numbers.But is that the point of this thread...??
The point of this thread,my dear ATCO,is what you so unsuccessfully attempted to invalidate,by trying so hard to validate your own agenda.
In your own complicated agendas,u are but a stupid forum winder.The likes of whom are rotting away in my doggies poo bed in my backyard....
Now,like I said before,lets move onto constructive critism...

[jackbauer]

EGGW Close this thread it's becoming plain rambling by boeingdream. What a prize idiot.

[fjordviking]

Wonder why with a statement like the one below you could not
make it through the EK interview. Reality check comes to mind.
Move on habibi, get a life, don`t be bitter. The big shiny jet at the end
of the rainbow may not be the mother of all happiness after all.

Quote:
The point of this thread,my dear ATCO,is what you so unsuccessfully attempted to invalidate,by trying so hard to validate your own agenda.
In your own complicated agendas,u are but a stupid forum winder.The likes of whom are rotting away in my doggies poo bed in my backyard....
Now,like I said before,lets move onto constructive critism...

Fjordviking

[Capt.Bee]

Dreamer buddy, this is your PM sent to me on the Feb15,2008....

" Urgent....Query...!! SIA interview
Hey Capt Bee,
I do believe that u are either in SIAM or SIAC. Either way bro,i've just been called to Singapore for an interview/sim check/medical with SIA main(B777-captain).Could u PLEASE throw some light on what to expect in the interview and sim ride.Any info on the medicals too would be highly appreciated.An early reply would certainly be of great help....!!
Many many thanks in advance bro.....
BD "

Have you asked yourself why i never bodered answering?
You are no worth even the 2 sec taken do copy/paste your PM!
You are sick dreamer or simply stop smoking dope!
As you say - " 'nuff said.."

[boeingdream787]

What's "BODERED"...?
I'm sorry i don't understand u.
Do the edit CB.
And that was then.Do u want all the PM's YOU sent me on the forum now?
I think not...
And "no worth" doesn't make sense either.
Wonder who's smokin the stuff.....
Onto more serious buisness,I just heard EK's selling out some old 777's so as to enable a future cut in capacity and routes.Plans to lease back a large number of the same/newer versions.Wonder if thats the way to go....:confused:

[boeingdream787]

But since Capt Bee likes the quotes...
On 23rd Feb 2009.....Capt Bee says....Quote :
"Short of opening a Radio Shack in an Amish town, Dubai is the world’s worst business idea, and there isn’t even any oil. Imagine proposing to build Vegas in a place where sex and drugs and rock and roll are an anathema. This is effectively the proposition that created Dubai - it was a stupid idea before the crash, and now it is dangerous.
Dubai threatens to become an instant ruin, an emblematic hybrid of the worst of both the West and the Middle-East and a dangerous totem for those who would mistakenly interpret this as the de facto product of a secular driven culture.
The opening shot of this clip shows 200 skyscrapers that were built in the last 5 years. It looks like Manhattan except that it isn’t the place that made Mingus or Van Allen or Kerouac or Wolfe or Warhol or Reed or Bernstein or any one of the 1001 other cultural icons from Bob Dylan to Dylan Thomas that form the core spirit of what is needed, in the absence of extreme toleration of vice, to infuse such edifices with purpose and create a self-sustaining culture that will prevent them crumbling into the empty desert that surrounds them.

Dubai is a place for the shallow and fickle. Tabloid celebrities and worn out sports stars are sponsored by swollen faced, botox injected, perma-tanned European property developers to encourage the type of people who are impressed by fame itself, rather than what originated it, to inhabit pastiche Mediterranean villas on fake islands. Its a grotesquely leveraged version of time-share where people are sold a life in the same way as being peddled a set of steak knives. Funny shaped towers smatter empty neighborhoods, based on designs with unsubtle, eye-catching envelopes but bland floor plans and churned out by the dozen by anonymous minions in brand name architects offices and signed by the boss, unseen, as they fly through the door. This architecture, a three dimensional solidified version of a synthesized musical jingle, consists of ever more preposterous gimmickry - an underwater, revolving, white leather **** pad or a marina skyscraper with a product placement name that would normally only appeal to teenage boys, such as the preposterous Michael Schumacher World Champion Tower.

But if there is one problem with the shallow and the fickle, its that they are shallow and fickle, they won’t put down deep roots and they won’t remain loyal to Dubai. The people who appear in People magazine need to be told what is cool by Wallpaper magazine who in turn will discover something after the hipsters have moved on. The problem is that Dubai was never hipster-cool and is no longer Wallpaper-cool. This realization will have the same impact as suburbanite bachelorette party in a Wallpaper-cool nightclub. It will spread like the sighting of a floating turd in a public pool, flushing people to the exits with silent panic, unacknowledged for fear of embarrassment.

As people scramble for the exits in Dubai, there is no ‘key mail’, like in America, where people can often mail back their house keys and walk away from a mortgage without the immediate threat of jail. People are literally fleeing this place, to date leaving 3000 cars stranded at the airport with keys still in the ignition. And the reason for this is that if you default on your Dubai mortgage, you can end up in a debtors prison. Perhaps Dubai will at least create a new Dickens?

Goodbye Dubai | Smashing Telly - A hand picked TV channel
Sounds more than depressing to me! "
Unquote
Skeletons in cupboards hurt don't they CB..
Wanna see the PM's now...:)
Wondering who got rejected by the EK board...hmmmm....:O

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Just back from the weekend shopping nightmare. Anybody mind helping me by revealing where those deserted malls are? Or the deserted roads??

[atiuta]

Now I'm really concerned.

This is one sick puppy as he claims to be the Captain on the EK flight to KWI, remember the one that had 18 people on it (400 IRL), and claims to be a recruiter. The fact is that the Captain IRL is a recruiter and it sure isn't bd787.

BD787 either has a connection to EK crew rosters or, OMG, is a pilot with EK.

I hope like **** it's the former and BD787 had better hope like **** his handle is not exposed if it's the latter. Just another wind up artist? Sure. But this one is way, way beyond funny.

As for the loads on the KWI flight in question, I never claimed that the yield was good just merely correcting and exposing wet dreams.

Moderator, please lock up BD787, the thread, or even myself for all I care.

[grizzled]

I'm going to go have a lie down. In an hour or so I'll come back to this thread. If it's still here it means one of two things: The mods have committed suicide, OR I'm delusional and seeing things on my computer that can't possibly be real.

[Capt.Bee]

dreamer, bodered is written the way you used to express yourself on the PPRuNe,hence no worry here.It's question for you, only!
About the "Quote" - This is an article from a newspaper,and it is depressing! No point here!
I have never ever sent you PM.
Man, go and see your shrink! I'm not sure whether he wants to see you though!

[boeingdream787]

You guyz the kinda fellas who'd bulldoze your way into the basketball courts by sheer numbers all ur lives right?
Ever seen the likes of "a fair fight'? Having said that....
Atiuta says:
"Moderator, please lock up BD787, the thread, or even myself for all I care."
Most likely the last option...
Grow up guyz and get some speeds.....
Earn ur living pls instead of whining...
Cheers
:cool:

[fjordviking]

Moderator is on LOA for a few days it seems.
Boeingdream787, as a thread starter you can delete the the whole thread.
I strongly advice you to do so. This to save you further disgrace.
You have to be protected from yourself. I find it very worrisome that you are
locked up in the flight deck, when very clearly you should have been locked up somewhere else.

[ATCO1962]

Nah, keep the thread going. That way, we can keep the troll busy here and he won't intrude in other threads that are engaged in meaningful exchanges.

Keep 'em coming, BD787, it's fun and disturbing at the same time:}

[Instant Hooligan]

I agree ATCO,
Kinda like watching the vehicle crash tests in slow motion...!!! No harm really and quite entertaining.
Right whose next?

[GoreTex]

BD, please tell me you dont fly airplanes, I'll be a pax in a few hours and really worry now.

[chainsaw]

BD787

It's obvious that you're trying to impress other PPruNers with your insights, but can you please make an effort to edit out all the unnecessary material and 'static' from your posts?

That way, the evidence that you're a complete and utter idiot will still be available to us, but we'll be able to access it a whole lot more easily.

Thank you. :ugh:

[Touch'n'oops]

The penny has just dropped!!!

BoeingDream787 does work for EK... but only the Virtual Airline. Somehow his boundary between reality and virtual reality has become blurred... slightly...?

How else is someone going to be able to fly for EK, SIA and of course be a boeing test pilot???

Sucks to be you! :ok:

[777-200LR]

Actually there could be some truth in the fact that BD787 could be a virtual pilot.

But i was thinking he might one in the pool already making a name for himself and trying to discourage others that things at EK are "getting so sick". That way some swimmers might elect to leave the pool, leaving 787 in a good position for upcoming start courses.

Just a thought.

[NZ X man]

Boeing
Perhaps you should quit whilst your not ahead mate.

There is enough doom and gloom in this business, and we need more positive information and news, not the dark side stuff, Rumors are like bad breath, everybody, at one time or another, has it.\\ If you read something else that would piss a huge group of your peers off, would you print it!

[boeingdream787]

Hey guys,
I'm honestly sorry,if whilst trying to address an issue on a forum,I inadvertently touched some wrong nerve(s).This is not my story and i'm sorry to be the bearer of this 'bad news'.And am willing to take what is normally due to the bearer of bad tidings.I for one don't think its bad news anyways.Cause,to begin with,I didn't believe in it myself! Therefore the thread.
I honestly DO understand all your rightfully directed sentiments.Those of all of you at EK.But getting personal really won't help the matter.Lets keep this clean shall we.Lets all appreciate one another and keep this in perspective.
Once again you have my apology...
Cheers...

[Wiley]

Ummm.... could I have a translation of that last post? WTF does it mean?

[zerozol]

hi all!

wow, it became a quite funny thread. :)
okey, i understand why boeingdream was attacked, but please, let this subject go over. :)

what about the original topic? you, insiders could tell more infos about EK's life.

i really don't think that EK will "getting sick", but the facts we see around shows that there are serious things going on.
i searched back, and found that after 9/11 was a quite same situation at EK, stopped recruiting, some restructuring etc.

but this credit crunch is a bit more serious party, not?... :)

z

[Jet II]

i really don't think that EK will "getting sick", but the facts we see around shows that there are serious things going on.
i searched back, and found that after 9/11 was a quite same situation at EK, stopped recruiting, some restructuring etc.


The whole industry had serious things going on after 9/11, and SARS, and Bird flu etc. etc.

It's a cyclical industry and EK is not going to be immune to its ups and downs. The question is how well is EK going to do compared to the other players? - and looking at the sh*t that most of them are in at the moment it's doing OK.

Of course the best airline to work for in times like this are outfits like EY which dont have to make a profit to survive..

[wizard1]

things are bad - 35 out to sin last night and none booked on the return. NY loads dire.

[atiuta]

Disagree with that one as well Wizard.

Loads to SIN have been better, but nothing near your figures. Neither do we know what yield is being pulled in, how much freight etc. A new flight via SIN was introduced in February and therefore expected to have lighter loads in any climate.

Fortunately you don't work for EK as I personally don't really want to see numbers published here. Why? Because someone will then take it in to his head to remove staff access to accurate loads, thereby inhibiting staff travel planning.

My question is what drives individuals to dump drivel on this forum? Jilted applicant, employee or just some psycho response? Whatever, the consistent track of contributors appears to be mistruths designed to bring some discredit to whatever the topic is. All that achieves is a web site that has earnt a reputation for lies and lack of credibility.

[Desert Diner]

It's a cyclical industry and EK is not going to be immune to its ups and downs. The question is how well is EK going to do compared to the other players? - and looking at the sh*t that most of them are in at the moment it's doing OK.

Of course the previous decision to buy wajid wide bodies and attempt to connect all inhabited continents to Dubai may not have been the best one they made in todays environment.


Of course the best airline to work for in times like this are outfits like EY which dont have to make a profit to survive..


That indeed is a profound statement.

[White Knight]

I really wouldn't chew your fingers to the bone about it chaps (and girls:})... They are MAKING PLENTY of cash $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ still....

As for the Colombo route - well, there's a jolly nasty little skirmish going on in Ceylon at the moment:ugh:

[montencee]

Hey guys, any chance that you could resist the temptation to post what some might consider to be commercially sensitive information on this public board.

Particularly when you're so readily identifiable as say wizard1 for example.

[Schibulsky]

Just see the good side of it...easy stby travel :ok:
...but only if you can get enough days off in a row :ugh:

[EGGW]

Just been away for a bit, please keep the drivel off the forum... I will do some trimming at the weekend.

EGGW

[zerozol]

hi peep!

i don't find any "commercially sensitive" information here. Colombo-Singapore flight with 42/81 pax isn't a company secret, anyway... :)

agree, EY has more stuff behind ( indirectly, "of course". :) )

sure, the main question is how EK would come out of this cyclical down; as 9/11 shows they managed the situation quite well, so apparently they would do it again.

found this now: Emirates set to cut flights on China routes - Travel & Hospitality - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/549170-emirates-set-to-cut-flights-on-china-routes)

uhm, okey, normal in this global situation, but... (planned 14% growth, announced weeks ago...until March 2010, would they reach this plan?)

[Flaperon777]

Emirates is in quite a baad spot.Loads dropping faster than a concrete block in the Hudson.For obvious reasons I guess.Seventy percent plus of the construction projects that started within the last 24 months have been put on hold.And about 40-50% of the workers have already been laid off and sent packing to their respective countries.THAT traffic accounted for quite a large chunk of the EK pax load too.Its all now passe.
Also I feel that maybe EK did some fuel hedging at a less than perfect time.And are now suffering the pains of this 'not so perfect' bet.
Well....just my 2 barrels worth.

[6100]

as 9/11 shows they managed the situation quite well, so apparently they would do it again.


There was very little that EK 'managed' post 9/11. Their saving grace was that they had no exposure to the US at that time. Their core routes were the subcontinent through to Europe, with a little bit to Australia.

The main thing they 'managed' was that they managed to take the large, arabic, Emirates insignia off the side of the aircraft and replace it with the large, english, EMIRATES sign. I assume in an attempt to distance themsleves from the perceived stigma of being an arabic airline. Although the reality was that people probably felt safer on an Arabic airline than any other.

[White Knight]

falperon - the loads in late March and April are actually forecast to be high.. Don't you know that late Jan, Feb and early March are quiet every year - recession or not!!!! Kids are in school in both the southern and northern hemispheres so families traditionally don't travel at these times - is that too difficult to grasp?
My load factor today ex DXB was 98%:hmm: I'll let you know the return factor in a couple of days....

[zerozol]

6100,

"The main thing they 'managed' was that they managed to take the large, arabic, Emirates insignia off the side of the aircraft and replace it with the large, english, EMIRATES sign. I assume in an attempt to distance themsleves from the perceived stigma of being an arabic airline. Although the reality was that people probably felt safer on an Arabic airline than any other."

The first half of your idea is totally wrong: Updated livery is revealed by Emirates-15/11/1999-Flight Daily News (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/1999/11/15/58396/updated-livery-is-revealed-by-emirates.html)

so Emirates revealed its current livery in november, 1999, nearly 2 years before 9/11. :)

as in this thread we are discussing the new aircraft deliveries, suspended crew recruiting, destination-restructuring, i mentioned post-9/11 because of these issues; if you search back in years, in this forum, you will find almost the same problems at Emirates as in these days.

so it seems that post-9/11 touched EK as well; even if its main focus was not US at that time, the global aviation market suffered (Asia as well!), that means logically that EK would have lesser pax. they aren't an exception of global impressions.

and that's why i cited this period, concerning the "management of slump".
they came out of crap, supposingly they will come out one more time. :)

z

[Capt Groper]

:D

Hopefully this down turn will clear out a lot of usless management positions and leave the system alone to run efficiently.

There have been too many tiers brought in at EK. Just look at Flt Ops with the numerous FCI's, many just to correct an earlier management mistake, also the usual answer to a phone call "not in his seat at a meeting", seems that they only have meetings, and this is whats happening in just one department.

I once saw a list of EK's management made up of M,SM,VP,SVP, DVP, EVP and it read like a telephone book. So much for an efficient line based management structure, lets build a pyramid bigger that all the rest.

:D