What did Gatwick used to look like

[diddy1234]

I was wondering if anyone had early pictures / maps of Gatwick.

I know that there is the 'beehive' building but today it looks very remote from the runways.

Were both runways built at the same time ?

What terminal was built first (north or south) ?

and where was the train station located (I would imagine somewhere near the beehive building) ?

[WHBM]

In the beginning there was a racecourse (yes, honestly), and a special train station was built for it, called Gatwick Racecourse.

Then it got turned in the 1930s into an airfield. Grass of course. The Beehive building got built close to the train station, which got a new name. But the ground was not drained enough, and the operators that moved in there in the mid-1930s (like the original British Airways) moved on elsewhere after losing too much winter ops to waterlogging.

In the 1950s there was another go, same overall airfield but with the facilities built on the northern side. New train station was built north of the old one (this latter was on the site of today's train sidings where trains wait between trips, about 1/2 mile south of the current station, still known to railway staff as the "Racecourse Sidings"). New terminal building (now buried in the middle of the South terminal) linked to the station by a footbridge. New runway, hard of course, which forms the east end of the present main runway. Proper drains doubtless put in. All very much extended since it reopened.

"Both" runways were built at the same time, because one is an actual runway from the 1958 rebuild and the other is an emergency use of the taxiway opened at the same time. Renumbered to two runways following a couple of misunderstanding close-calls in the 1980s when the adapted taxiway was in use, its transition from taxiway was gradual, in stages.

The Beehive was left out on a limb after all this.

[Herod]

What did Gatwick used to look like.

Civilised ;)

[pmills575]

Actually there were two railway stations at Gatwick. As a lad in the late 50s I used to cycle to the airport to watch the Jersey Airlines Rapides coming and going. If we were lucky we might catch an Attacker heading to/from the Airworks hanger, occasionally a late mark Spitfire would turn up. The station was opposite the beehive and a short distance north was the then derelict Gatwick Racecourse station. Of course the airfield was a grass strip in those days, re-inforced by metal plates.

When the new airport was built they abandoned the Gatwick Airport station and refurbished the old racecourse station, renaming it in the process. If you travel that line you can still make out the base of the platforms where the other station used to be.

P Mills
Gatwick Aviation Museum - Charlwood (http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk)

[Warmtoast]

Not particularly of high quality, but this is a screen grab from some 8mm cine film I shot of the Gatwick departure hall as it appeared around lunch-time on 19th April 1960. I’m precise about the time and date as my log book records we arrived at Gatwick 13.05 and departed at 15.00. The occasion was when I and my crew were tasked at very short notice to fly Julian Amery, the then Colonial Under-Secretary of State, to Nicosia for talks with Archbishop Makarios and Mr Kutchuk. These talks led to the creation of the Sovereign Base Areas.
Note the ‘busy’ departure check-in desks on the left. With what appears to be just two pax checking in!

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/Gatwick-April1960-Cropped.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Lyneham/Gatwick1961.jpg

Postcard of Gatwick dating from around the same time.

[diddy1234]

warmtoast, that's a really nice postcard picture of the airfield.

I was wondering if the runway was in the same location when it was a grass (steel matted) airfield ?

[Opssys]

Hope these are of interest:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_9g9gbl9dTkg/SbKweMEBPhI/AAAAAAAAEO8/Hf5xfy6MvIU/Gatwick%201970.jpg

And some years later
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_9g9gbl9dTkg/SRzQ94gQkNI/AAAAAAAAAjY/iZG9r9SwA1U/s800/lgw1-1975.jpg
Opssys

:

[Atcham Tower]

There was a short article in Flight circa 1946 with a diagram of the metal mesh runways. I have the cutting somewhere but a look in the online Flight archive would be quicker than finding it. As I recall, it said that Gatwick was unlikely to come to anything!

[Opssys]

Although we have drifted into the 'second Gatwick Airport', diddy1234 Mentioned the Beehive and as Flight used to produce serious articles about such things the following Article from the 4th June 1936 is of interest - Spread over three PDFs:

Page 602:
Modern Airport - Features of Gatwick, London's Latest Terminal : Rational Building Layout, Ground and Air Traffic Control : Ancillary Services (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1936/1936%20-%201475.html)
Continuation Page 603: (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1936/1936%20-%201478.html)
Continuation Page 604 (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1936/1936%20-%201479.html)
Illustrated with Flight Photographs

The Old Gatwick Airport Railway Platforms 'hung around' until at least the late 1980's. But by 1995 only rubble remained. BUT Nick Catford contributing to the
excellent Subterranea Britannica web site took some pictures back in September 1995 - Whilst Pictures of a derelict subway connecting the Beehive to the Old Station may not be of too much interest, The Photo: Inside The Beehive, the steps on the left lead to the tunnel on this Page may be of interest:
Site Name: Gatwick Airport - Passenger Subway (http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/g/gatwick_airport_passenger_subway/index.shtml)
If you do look at this page, you might as well check out:
Site Name: Gatwick Airport - Passenger Subway Page 2 (http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/g/gatwick_airport_passenger_subway/index2.shtml)

In another Beehive Thread there was a small picture of the Beehive Model (by Alan Marlow) at the Victoria and Albert Museum:
Here is a larger picture from a different perpective:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_9g9gbl9dTkg/SbOjx-tE5rI/AAAAAAAAEPE/IrHLwaKm0ps/Beehive-Model-VA-AlanMarlow1936.jpg

Opssys

[Seat62K]

I first visited Gatwick in, I think, 1973 and seem to remember that spectators could walk on the roof of a "finger" and get quite close to the parked aircraft. Is my memory accurate?

I remember taking some 35mm slides but, sadly, do not know where they are now.

[Level bust]

You are quite correct the spectators area was over one of the 'fingers'

There were all sorts of interesting aircraft in the late 60s early 70s. All of which you could get decent photographs of, all with my little Kodak Instamatic!

Those were the days!

[GROUNDHOG]

I worked at Gatwick in 1966 and yes you could walk around the roof of the fingers in those days. All the BUA vehicles used to have 'things are looking up at BUA' painted on the roof so they could be seen from there. I even remember taking two passengers out to an aircraft in my Hillman Minx once and carrying a spare wheel for an Islander another time in the same car, you could drive private cars on the tarmac then under the right circumstances.

My father worked at Gatwick ( Beehive) in the 1940's and told me that at the end of the war there were a number of aircraft parked which were not fully operational and so they dug a big hole and buried them! Assumedly if true they are still there somewhere!!!

[WHBM]

Correct, I believe the spectators area was on the main pier.

I recall being there in about 1970 and looking down on various One-Elevens, and - guess what else starting up - a Piper Cherokee !! My guess is that it was the short-lived stand-in for a Westward Airways Islander on the Heathrow link (which in those days apparently quite often had no pax at all for a rotation).

[WHBM]

There was a short article in Flight circa 1946 with a diagram of the metal mesh runways. !
I believe this is what was known as Pierced Steel Planking, or PSP, steel plate, two skins pressed together with a lot of circular holes in it for drainage and lightness. My father laid plenty of it in Burma for DC3s in WW2 to reinforce grass strips during the monsoon season.

[Panop]

I was a frequent visiting spotter at LGW in the late 60s and worked there for a few years (Gatwick Handling and BIA) in the mid 1970s.

The North and South Pier roofs (not the Centre Pier) were open to spectators in the 60s but by the early 70s this was stopped due to a mixture (I believe) of security concerns and difficulty of access as the terminal/admin buildings were extended. The rather basic piers were then gradually replaced with more up to date structures.

It was a great place for spotting when the piers were available with close access possible to most of the aircraft and an excellent view of landing aircraft on 27 (now 26L). Probably hard to imagine now, but the biggest complaint from spotters then was boredom as there could often be significant periods with no movements at all (20 minutes between any activity was common - much longer sometimes) and then it was often just 'common' types like Morton Air Service Daks, Dan-Air Ambassadors, BUA Viscounts, BUIA Heralds, SAM DC-6s, RCAF Bristol 170s and Yukons, etc.

Aaaaahhh! 'You don't know what you've got 'til its gone!"

[GROUNDHOG]

WHBM - in 1970 I was station manager for Westward Airways and you may well be right about thye aircraft you saw, most substitute flights were supplied by Southend Air Taxis and sometimes on a push/pull cessna ( don't know its proper name!!) If we only had one or two passengers across the whole Heathrow rotation we sometimes used to tell the pax the aircraft was tech and put them in a taxi!! Frequently only carried two or three passengers, five or six on a good day there was simply no advertising. The fare was four pounds each way and five for a day return between Gatwick and Heathrow.

Those were the days.....

[learjet50]

Hi Groundhog

I remember flying to Heathrow from Gatwick on the First flight on a Saturday we we charged 5 pounds for a family ticket

Fantastice flight low level over the route

Good old days

Regards

[l.garey]

WHBM: That Cherokee could have been me. I sometimes used LGW to clear customs on my way to France. There was no hassle in the early 1970s. Also Stansted and Luton were quite user-friendly for the private pilot.

Laurence

[Opssys]

The Sout Pier Roof Spectator Viewing area was. from memory open much longer than the North Finger and at one time the S.Pier even had a snack/coffee bar (offshoot of Eddies?). The Centre Pier had the Control Box halfway down (BAA Apron - who moved out leaving the unit empty and BUA Service Control, then BCAL Service Control, until it too moved, this time to the Eighth Floor and change of Name to GOCC (The lift strike that occurred sometime after the move meant we were all very fit).
Anyway here is a rare view of the Terminal Building from the North Pier Spectators Terrace (Caz Caswell with permission):
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_9g9gbl9dTkg/SRzQ71yot7I/AAAAAAAAAjM/q5HUf9D0ueI/s720/z-LGW-JU%7E1.JPG

Opssys

[Flap40]

Lokking at Warmtoast's second picture, why did they build the runway so far away from the terminal?

[pmills575]

Gatwick Aviation Museum has half a wall dedicated to the early years of Gatwick, amongst the artifacts are the original operating license certificate.
There are quite a few old photos dating from 1932, including aerial shots showing the racecourse. The "runways" were around the course and the northern most is quite some distance from the "terminal". This may explain why the runway is so far away, once the racecourse went out of use the runways were still used in their original positions.

Come and see for yourself, the museum is open on Sunday the 15th(First this year) 10 till 4.

P Mills
Gatwick Aviation Museum - Charlwood (http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk)

[merlinxx]

Having 'Gaters' as me home base for so many (40+) years, I still can't workout the reasoning for building an airport "in a valley, on clay and on a river":ugh: Still I love those misty/foggy mornings:ok::E

[philbky]

With the Northdowns to the North, the Southdowns to the South and the Ashdown Forest covering much of the only other possible sites within a reasonable reach of London and Brighton, the mid 1950s decision to expand the old, and not very well placed airport at Gatwick is, perhaps, understandable.

[johngreen]

Interesting reading and pictures here....

gatwick | 1950 | 0122 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1950/1950%20-%200122.html)


JG

[WHBM]

The photo linked above is very interesting to see how the airport was arranged before the 1958 changes. Notable how The Beehive was itself remote from the runways, in fact down a cul-de-sac. I don't know another airfield of the time with the terminal so far away.

If yu want to relate it to a map of the time here is an Ordnance Survey 1 inch map from 1948. Note that in those times the airport buildings, runways, etc were suppressed from OS maps on national security grounds, so it is just a blank white space. Note the racecourse, on the site of the present airport, is sharply angled :

New Popular Edition Maps (http://www.npemap.org.uk/tiles/map.html#527,140,1)

and for those who don't know it, an equivalent today, pointing to The Beehive :

Streetmap.co.uk- search results for 528600,139920 (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/oldmap.srf?x=528600&y=139920&z=115&sv=528600,139920&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=oldmap.srf&searchp=oldsearch.srf&lm=1)

and an aerial photograph of The Beehive today, showing it surrounded by car parking and other buildings.

Link: <LGW - Google Maps (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=LGW&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=11.905102,38.935547&ie=UTF8&ll=51.144551,-0.16251&spn=0.002921,0.013583&t=h&z=17)>

Regarding the actual ground layout of the original airport, and given Gatwick's problems with waterlogging of runways, notable that the taxiways and perimeter track appear surfaced in the aerial photo, but not the runways, which remained grass. Other 1930s places were the same. What was the reason for that ?

[deltayankee]

...but not the runways, which remained grass...


One reason might be that the taxiways only need to be as wide as the wheel track, while runways used to be much wider. Going back to the very old days a "field" was once literally that and you could land in any direction.

Add to that the fact that in the old days many pilots raised on grass strip landings actually preferred it, because there is less bounce. Most modern pilots have never tried a grass strip so they are more used to hard surfaces. Try the difference yourself one day.


why did they build the runway so far away from the terminal?


Maybe to have the terminal close to the railway. But then why is the runway so far from the railway? Is it to avoid boggy ground?

[Exnomad]

I visited Gatwick as an ATC cadet in 1946. The do not think there was a hard runway, Airwork was working on a variety of aircraft including a Liberator without engines. When boarded by a number of cadets via a rear door, the thing tipped back on its tail.
The Beehive and the Airwork hangar are the only buildings I remember. The only civil aircraft were DC3 and Rapides/
The A23 ran through the miidle of what is now the airport, close to Lowfield Heath Church

[SpringHeeledJack]

I was chatting with my father at the weekend and mentioned this thread, knowing that he had worked at Gatwick in the early 1950's. He recalled seeing a four engine aircraft doing touch and go's to test out the new 'hard' runway and it's various systems before the official opening. He said that it caused quite a stir at the time as it was larger and louder than most of the normal visitors and worked in his favour as he could slip away to Plumpton for the afternoon to go to the races, as he was a very keen follower of horseracing.

When would this have been and what was that aircraft(s) ?


regards


SHJ

[Heatedfuelreturn]

I remember G-ASDN a single Comanche being based at Gatick.

Tony Mack had I think an Astec, and a B206 was there as well.

The Comanchee was replaced by a Cessna 337 Push you pull me.

We did several crew positioning trips to the west country as joy rides.

That was the entire GA fleet. We shared the airport with (I think ) Dan Air, and that was it.

Decca had a research aircraft based there too. I was a willing guest once or twice on test flights up and down G1, at night to test the new Decca Kit.

As a gov airport, any holders of ministry landing cards, issued free could use the airport FOC. I remember going up to Luton one day and having to pay.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MReyn24050]

Decca had a research aircraft based there too. I was a willing guest once or twice on test flights up and down G1, at night to test the new Decca Kit.
That would have been Decca Navigator Company's Airspeed AS57 Ambassador 2, G-ALZP. G-ALZP was originally delivered B.E.A. in 1951. In March 1960, the aircraft was sold to the Royal Jordanian Air Force as 109 and in September 1960 transfered to Morocco where was used as the CN-MAK for the King of Morocco. In 1964, the CN-MAK was sold to Decca Navigator Co. Ltd. and used as a test-bed for their navigation equipment. The aircraft during it's time at Gatwick was maintained by Air Couriers Ltd. I was employed by Air Couriers from 1959 until 1964 and Air Couriers, during that time, maintained a range of aircraft from Piper Tri-Pacers up to Lockheed Constellations.

[Panop]

at one time the S.Pier even had a snack/coffee bar (offshoot of Eddies?)
Thanks Opssys. I recall, from a distant and long undisturbed recess of my memory, the snack bar and remember being miffed when it closed (about 1968 at a guess). Now for a bit of thread drift...this may seem bizarre (in fact it is) but over 30 years on I still occasionally think about Eddies (the staff canteen) and usually with fondness - even for the food which was far better than most of the other airport 'greasy spoons' I ever found and certainly different. I have never encountered so many different dishes served with a dollop of bolognaise sauce on top, as standard! And the toad in the hole ('sausage toad' on the menu) was exceptional! What happened to Eddies? (I left LGW in 1975 never to return except as an occasional SLF).

[Opssys]

I also still have some affection for Eddie's, an early breakfast of 'Buck Rarebit' and Mushrooms on toast hmm! Although the arrival of the 'Parrot' did give pause for thought, its arrival didn't affect the food (although today the inspectors would have fits).

From incredibly vague memory Eddie P started out running a snack bar at Croydon Airport before moving to Gatwick and getting the Canteen franchise. As Panop says a good 'greasy spoon' - with a bar (which due company regulations I never got to use).

I cannot remember when (1979 is my best guess), or why it closed.. Became a Gatwick Handling Control Centre.

Eddie's and the lone tree between it and the Terminal, survived many major changes to Gatwick (how the Tree survived the building of Concord House only God Knows), the tree remained long after Eddies Closed, is it still hanging in there?

[Panop]

I'd forgotten about the parrot - a macaw wasn't it?

I recall now hearing the Croydon story once - certainly sounds feasible.

I still have a tendency to pronounce 'baked beans' as 'bakkeddabins' after a couple of years of having orders read back to me at Eddies by the Italian speaking staff.

One enduring memory was the day one of the, then, newly armed police officers finished his lunch and wandered off to protect the airport leaving his nice new gun on his seat, much to the shock of the next customer who went to sit down on the same chair. A very red faced and flustered policeman appeared shortly after to reclaim his weapon and what little was left of his dignity.

The bar was an unusual feature and it was always a shock for us upright Brits to see aircrew from some countries, that then had a more relaxed attitude to such things, enjoying a glass of wine with their lunch during turnarounds.

I also recall some company alcohol regulations either being absent or treated with a certain amount of liberal interpretation for some of the ground staff but that is another story!

[primreamer]

Opssys,
The lone tree you mentioned has long since gone, as has the Gatwick Handling Despatch Centre which was demolished to make way for the Concorde House "2000" extension. There was a greasy spoon for staff that flourished on the ground floor of Atlantic House in the 80's and early 90's. This was known as "Eddies", I think as a throwback to the earlier establishment on the other side of the terminal. It later became a jobcentre and is now the BAA ID centre.

[Opssys]

Shame about the tree as it appears in the 1961 Picture and the pictures I submitted of the 1970's (one of which keeps disappearing), so if the Concord House Extension was 2000, I suspect it did hang in there until the late 1990's. Not bad in a constantly evolving Airport. Environment.

One of the other surprises was the House inside the perimeter. This was still a residence in the mid-1980's and was located on the A23 side of the Perimeter Road, down from the Former Laker Hangar. From memory rented out on short tenancy to BAA staff.. I suspect that as (from memory) it wasn't on land with an obvious development use (other than another relatively small Car Park) meant it was allowed to survive, but I guess that it has now also gone?

[primreamer]

Opssys,
The house you describe is still there although in a very delapidated state. Until a couple of years ago it was still accessible but now it is boarded up and fenced off. The surrounding trees and bushes have grown to such an extent that its difficult to spot amongst the foliage.

[Opssys]

primreamer.
Thanks for that. Finaly did what should have been obvious and had a look on Google Maps Satellite View. The House is still visible. Surprised that as it survived the BAA didn't continue to find ways of making money out of it!

[merlinxx]

Anyone got any pics of "Townsend's Paradise Pub" :E:{? If so plse ctc.:ok:

[DennisK]

Here's a few more 'gems' to add to the LGW story.

'Twas 1974 when having just purchased a Piper Cub from Hilversum, I needed to clear customs at the 'Long Room' so found myself touching down on the piano keys and bouncing along the 26 runway. I seem to remember ground control cleared me to the GAT caravan northside via taxiways 6. 4 and 1.

A big jet Captain had seen me taxying past his flight deck and later called my Shoreham office to enquire if the Cub he had seen was for sale. After a short coversation, he agreed to buy and a cheque promptly arrived the next morning, the jet Captain never even having inspected the aircraft. Mind it was only £7,000! In those days I routinely did circuits and bumps in our Aztec C model, which I later sold to Tony Mack when he part exchanged his A model Aztec G-ATAA I think it was.

Some good pictures of the 1950s Gatwick adorn the walls of the nearby Tescos and about the mid 1970s, I attended a roudy B-Cal hostess' party at that house standing inside the perimeter on the south side.

Finally, in the 1970s several Westland Wessex 60s were at the Beehive being converted to the 'twin pack' 58C's.

All happy memories,

Dennis K

[pmills575]

Just thought I'd revive this thread having just taken some pictures of the Gatwick history as recorded by Gatwick Aviation Museum. There are two walls of information and pictures of Gatwick from 1932 until the present day.
Here are a couple of pictures taken of some of the display of Gatwick history:-
http://gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk/history/images/gatwick2.jpg
http://gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk/history/images/gatwick1.jpg

pm
Gatwick Aviation Museum (http://gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk)

[PAXboy]

Interesting thread. What I cannot yet find is, after the building of the Beehive (which looks very sensible for it's day) how did the pax get to the building? A tunnel?

[DaveReidUK]

Interesting thread. What I cannot yet find is, after the building of the Beehive (which looks very sensible for it's day) how did the pax get to the building? A tunnel?

Got it in one.

Subterranea Britannica: Sites: gatwick_airport_passenger_subway (http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/g/gatwick_airport_passenger_subway/index.shtml)

[WHBM]

That photo of the access tunnel to the Beehive being 17 years old, I did read somewhere more recently that it was now flooded.

Always reminds me of St Petersburg's 1970s Soviet-era domestic terminal with its two Beehives, connected underground to the terminal building.

Google Maps (http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=59.798675,30.265961&spn=0.002666,0.010525&t=h&z=17)

[PAXboy]

Thanks for the update. I knew the history of Heathrow and Croydon but had no idea about LGW until I read this thread.

[The SSK]

I spent a week spotting at LGW in I think 1964. I was a guest of a friend of one of my uncles, who was Personnel Director at BUA and had a house at Lowfield Heath, with the runway at the bottom of the garden.

Every day I’d walk to the terminal, passing first the big hangars (Hunting?) which usually had some exotica in front, often Flying Tiger Connies and Saturn DC7s. Then there was an apron that had several Morton Daks and Herons. Then the Hermes fuselage used for BUA cabin crew training – then to the roof terrace for the rest of the day.

I saw only two jets during my time there, an N-reg Jetstar and the arrival of BUA’s second VC10, which I witnessed at close range from the bottom of the garden.

For a spotter the place was like a magic box, apart from the monotony of the BUA Viscountr and Britannias there was an amazing variety of creatures great and small. I recall a Hornet Moth taking off from the taxiway, an N-reg corporate Viscount, an immaculate Iberia Connie … but my abiding recollection was of DC6s, from a huge variety of European airlines – Spantax, TASSA, SAM, UAT, Adria, Balair, Sterling. I’d fallen in love with Sixes when they were the biggest thing to visit my home airport at Newcastle, so I was in heaven.

[A30yoyo]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3502/3224272152_d52b1af405_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/74784995@N00/3224272152/)
Cabling-Up Gatwick Airport 1968 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/74784995@N00/3224272152/) by A30yoyo (http://www.flickr.com/people/74784995@N00/), on Flickr

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Luxair/Lockheed-L-1649A-98-11-Starliner/731730/L

and ca.1975
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz20/A30yoyo/G-AWGUbeehive900.jpg

[Limeygal]

Ah, happy days at Gatwick. I was working for Dan-Air in the early 1970s. The crew room was under the far finger at gate #39 I think. You could just walk onto the tarmac and walk around to the finger. Bet you can't do that anymore. I loved the Comet. My favourite aircraft-noisy though. The 707's were pigs, especially, Sierra Lima, also known as Sick Lil and in Toronto-Still Late!

[Speedbird48]

I have just found this Gatwick site and can add a little to what has been said already.

I landed at Gatwick in the mid '50's in a Miles Magister to collect a propellor for an Auster. The surface was grass with chicken wire embeded in it,(not PSP) as were many WW2 grass airfields, and on touchdown water enveloped the aircraft. The place was like a shallow lake.

We taxied to a hangar on the South side where a guy by the name of Bazil Maile operated a flying club with Taylorcrafts/Austers. We collected the prop' and departed with it sticking out of the top!!!

On the North side A.J.Walter had a couple of hangars with several J3/L4 Cubs stored on their noses and in the other hangar there were at least three Sikorski R4 helicopters in RAF markings.

Over at the Airwork hangars, behind the Beehive there were many Spitfire/Seafires being converted for the Burmese Air Force and BEA had a helicopter unit over there with a Bell 47.

The Windmill Theatre transport company had a hangar with several airplanes suitably painted with scantily clad young maidens on the cowlings!!

Speedbird 48.

[fauteuil volant]

Those who have found this thread interesting may care to look at Gatwick Airport (http://sussexhistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=640.0).

[Union Jack]

The surface was grass with chicken wire embefded in it,(not PSP)

More properly known of course as Sommerfeld Tracking (qv)! :)

Jack

[Wodrick]

The 707's were pigs, especially, Sierra Lima, also known as Sick Lil and in Toronto-Still Late!

and in Manchester "Spread Legs"

[chevvron]

That Jetranger must be parked in what is now the car park for the CAA's Aviation House.

[pmills575]

Here is another (poor quality!) picture of the first licence issued to Gatwick in 1930.

http://gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk/images/gatlic.jpg

pm575

[RichardRS]

I am part of and a contributor to the website Reel Streets - Reelstreets Films - Home Page (http://www.reelstreets.com) that endeavours to establish locations used in commercially distributed films and provide "now" shots of the same location if at all possible. This is partly from an cinema interest point of view but also recording pieces of history that may not be available elsewhere. I am currently "working on" a film known as Breaking Point (1961) that features Gatwick Airport and would welcome advice/information as to which arm or passenger pier the photo brept015 is of. I am attaching other screen captures, largely in response to when this thread started, when the question was asked if anyone had any photographs of Gatwick Airport, I thought that these may bring back some memories.

[fauteuil volant]

Central pier, looking east.

[PAXboy]

Whaaaaat? Nobody has yet identified the Viscount, it's number and entire history? Shocking, PPRuNers well below their usual standard... :8 :p

[brakedwell]

A relatively recent 1984 photo of the Gatwick ramp taken from an Air Europe B757.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Flt%20Deck%20view%20of%20Gatwick%20ramp_zpscttmzmll.jpg

[Herod]

Hey, Brakedwell; we're getting old. "relatively recent" is thirty-two years ago.

[RichardRS]

Many thanks fauteuil volant, I will, if I may, give you due thanks and credit when I publish the film on Site. Sorry PAXboy, I cannot help with regard to the Viscount, the old B&W film definitions are not that great but you may wish to know that "baddies cargo" was loaded onto a Douglas Dakota G-AMPZ which seems to have had a long and varied history.

Thanks chaps for your help.

[olympus]

We taxied to a hangar on the South side where a guy by the name of Bazil Maile operated a flying club with Taylorcrafts/Austers. We collected the prop' and departed with it sticking out of the top!!!

I met Basil Maile in Washington DC (actually somewhere in Maryland, I think) around 1982 when he was working for AOPA USA. He very kindly put me in touch with Pitts and AT-6 operators as I wanted to get some time on those types. He and his wife invited me round for dinner one night and he lent me one of his cars for the rest of my stay in DC. (A Hillman Minx if memory serves - he had a garage full of British cars!)

Sorry for the thread drift...

[PAXboy]

During it's time, where did the GatLink operate from?

[brakedwell]

PAXboy Are you referring to the BCal S61 Helicopter shuttle service to Heathrow ca 1976?
I positioned on it a few times when we were operating a DC8 out of LHR and we were bussed out to the Cargo Shed/Private Aviation Terminal area where the chopper was parked..

[DaveReidUK]

The joint BA/BCal Airlink service operated between LHR and LGW from 1978 to 1986, with the S-61N G-LINK actually being owned by the BAA. It ceased shortly after the M25 link between the two airports was completed.

I only flew it once, I seem to recall that it departed from an area adjacent to where the cargo tunnel emerges in the Central Area at LHR, but I don't recall where it terminated at LGW.

http://www.ashpole.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/G-LINK-LHR-stand-1024x701.jpg

Interesting article on it here: Gatwick/Heathrow Airlink 1978-1986 | A collection of articles from a 36 year career in aviation. (http://www.ashpole.org.uk/gatwickheathrow-airlink-2/)

[brakedwell]

The S61 was painted in BCal colours when we used it in 1978. Always travelled from LGW to LHR, never the other way round as FDT wasn't being eaten into and the taxi was cheaper!

[spekesoftly]

At Gatwick the Airlink operated from Stand 1. Callsign was "Link One" northbound and "Link Two" on return from Heathrow. After the last flight of the day, it would normally hop over the railway line to the BAH maintenace hangar (not far from the Beehive), and return to stand early next morning.

[RedhillPhil]

The S61 was painted in BCal colours when we used it in 1978. Always travelled from LGW to LHR, never the other way round as FDT wasn't being eaten into and the taxi was cheaper!


That'll be why the young lady at the foot of the stairs is in B Cal gear?

[brakedwell]

She could be cabin crew. ISTR two BCal girls on board.

[PAXboy]

I never rode on it but my Unlce and Aunt in Surrey lived under the flight path and cursed it roundly. As I watched (and heard) it rattle overhead, I did not say that I would loved to have been on it! I believe 'Gatlink' came from the registration. I understood that BAA thought the M25 motorway would take all the paxs and did not reapply for the license. By the time it was clear that the M25 couldn't - there was opposition to reopening the route. I sit to be corrected and haven't got time to read the linked articles at the moment.

I think it was restricted to VFR only? How many rotations did it do each day?

[spekesoftly]

Weather permitting, flights were normally VFR* at 2,400' QNH (just below the base of the London TMA), but the Link helicopter was also IFR capable when required, using both Decca moving map and ILS. Normal schedule was ten return flights daily.

(* - SVFR in the Heathrow Control Zone, which was Rule 21 Controlled Airspace, equivalent to Class A today)

[snooky]

In bad weather the link used ILS down to 300m rvr at both Heathrow and Gatwick.
There was also a Decca approach using higher minima and when Gatwick were using 8L occasionally whilst the main runway was worked on the Link could sometimes land when nothing else could due to the VOR minima being higher than the Decca.
The end came following a lengthy enquiry when new routes were approved. Unfortunately the then transport secretary Nicholas Ridley chose not to follow the enquiry recommendations and did not give approval.
Complaints about the link continued years after its demise since part of the route was along the helilanes and of course most traffic was still there!

[WHBM]

A relatively recent 1984 photo of the Gatwick ramp taken from an Air Europe B757. The photo also shows how Air Europe led the way by starting Boeing 737-400 operations at least 4 years before the competition
Not quite. The first CFM-powered 737 (identified by the different tail) came in 1985, and Orion were the first British purchaser. Air Europe's first came in 1987.

[brakedwell]

Orion's were 300 Air Europe's were 400. Not sure that makes much difference.

[JW411]

Well, if we're into willy-waving, the 734 was indeed a couple of inches longer than the 733!

[BEagle]

Things were so much more interesting back in the early '80s - although the drive to Gatwick from British West Oxfordshire was a bit of a nightmare before the south-western section of the M25 was completed in Summer 1985. Back then, you could drive right up to the front of the terminal, drop off your passengers, then drive to the nearby car park...

I certainly recall seeing the Heathrow-Gatwick helicopter nipping along whilst I took the rather tortuous route suggested by the Daily Telegraph Freight Transport Association Ltd.'s map...

Since then, the M25 has become very badly congested, despite the additional lanes. So the concept of it being the default Heathrow - Gatwick link isn't always the best idea. If only they'd built the M31 to link the M4 to the M3 and on to the M25 at J10!

Time to study a direct rail link?

But back to the AirLink - oh, those lovely Caledonian girls!

[spekesoftly]

oh, those lovely Caledonian girls!


gS2Pfnr_3dA

[PAXboy]

When the (allegedly) popular BCal 'Caledonian Girls' adverts originally ran, I thought them naff. The girls were simpering in an out of date manner. The whole campaign was ghastly.

[Prangster]

As radio 2 would once have had it. Mum, slightly deaf but refusing to wear hearing aids misheard it as airwig Gatport and wouldn't fly without insect repellent onhand.

[Neil Amrose]

Obviously Paxboy has a thing against Bcal and the Airlink.Having escorted various deportees to LHR on the S61 whilst working for Bcal I thought flying in it was great fun.
Swimming pool owners in the Esher/Oxshott area probably did't.
You had to work for Bcal to really appreciate " Caledonian Girls "As I recall the passengers loved it.
The catchphrase " we never forget you have a choice" did however cause a certain amount of angst when things went awry, which they did on a regular basis.
Of course it all went wrong in with Lord King/Maggie Thatcher route swap stitch up.
Goodbye South America hello Saudi Arabia leading to the BA takeover in 87.

[DaveReidUK]

You had to work for Bcal to really appreciate " Caledonian Girls " As I recall the passengers loved it.

I'll drink to that. :O

One of my most memorable trips, over 30 years ago now, involved the Airlink from Heathrow to Gatwick to connect with the BCal DC-10 flight to San Juan, with the final leg being the short hop to Tortola on the scheduled DC-3 service.

Those were the days ...

[Exnomad]

Visited Gatwick as an ATC cadet from school in (probably) 1946.
The "Beehve" was the only terminal building then, airfield primarily grass.
There was a B24 Liberator on site, unservicable and some way from the runway. Us cadets climbed in, too many aft of the C of G and it tipped up..

[DaveReidUK]

There was a B24 Liberator on site, unservicable and some way from the runway. Us cadets climbed in, too many aft of the C of G and it tipped up..

I hope you had the presence of mind to all pile into the nose and right it ... ? :O

[chevvron]

Weather permitting, flights were normally VFR* at 2,400' QNH (just below the base of the London TMA), but the Link helicopter was also IFR capable when required, using both Decca moving map and ILS. Normal schedule was ten return flights daily.

(* - SVFR in the Heathrow Control Zone, which was Rule 21 Controlled Airspace, equivalent to Class A today)
Not long before it was terminatsd, the Link's route was changed so that instead of routing in/out of the Heathrow CTR via a point near Esher, it routed roughly via Woking. This brought it into direct conflict with traffic positioning for an iap to runway 25 at Farnborough.
When we pointed this out to the 'experts' who designed this new route, they replied that this was in 'open FIR' as it was then called (class G airspace nowadays) so didn't concern them; they were only responsible for designating a route inside the Heathrow CTR which was environmentally acceptable.
On at least one occasion, the Link actually called us up for traffic info and when we suggested it wouldn't be a good idea to descend for his Heathrow Zone entry and he got a bit 'shirty', we pointed out that to do so would take him extremely close to the BAC 111 below him positioning for a PAR.