PPL cost these days...

[n707jt]

Hey guys

I was wondering what is the average cost all out in obtaining a PPL in Australia these days?

[biggles7374]

Depends where you go and how many hours you take, but including exams etc I reckon about the $15,000 mark should cover you.

[DanArcher]

Getting close to the better part of $10,000 these days

if your ambition is just to fly for fun go down the recreational aviation line instead, much cheaper & less bulls...t to contend with

[mr.tos]

Usually somewhere between 10 - 15k is the norm these days.

[Kickatinalong]

Our guys are talking about $14K
Kickatinalong:ok:

[Deaf]

Go RAA first, your instructor is less likely to be a low time turkey with a few bars getting the hours up for an airline fantasy = much cheaper

[mcgrath50]

Or find a club with guys who are in it for the passion, there are still some around!

[mates rates]

the reality is, all inclusive with no surprises you should allow K20.And you wont be dissappointed.

[haydos172]

or if you're planning on learning at oxford, then set aside at least 30K :}

[tmpffisch]

$9500 should get you to GFPT (based off 35 hours). Another 30 hours of navs to get your PPL would cost $8500. Basing this off my school, and current pricing for a PA28.

Any school quoting $10000 I would imagine is going of CASA's minimum hours, and not the in-house training syllabus flying schools actually get their students to fly.

[redleader78]

I finished my ppl about 6 months ago at Gostners at camden and all up that was aprox 11K. That was on the pa28 not on the jabs. Would have been maybe 500 less if i didn't have to wait so long for my medical. 9500 for gfpt yikes.

[tmpffisch]

redleader78, could you break down what those costs were? Or at least mention how many hours from AB-GFPT, GFPT-PPL.

[Benjamin James]

Yeah $9500 sounds way to high for GFPT. I got my PPL in 52 hours which includes the flight test and all the school syllabus minimums.

It was in a C172 and all up cost close to $10,000 with a medical and exams.

[smiling monkey]

Around $5500 .. well, that was 20 years ago when a C152 dual was about $95/hour and C172 $110/hr and there was no such thing as landing fees!!

[mr.tos]

I always thought that most people skip the GFPT to save money.

[tobz92_ymen]

Im not sure what it is for PPL but, ive just got my GFPT, and all up for flight time (30 dual, 5 solo) its cost me $12,000, of which $2000 is landing fees, plus on top of that you can add $1000 for two weeks of theory, then you can add another $1000 for medical, licence fees, ASIC fees, headset, books etc. So to get to where i am, about $14,000

[n707jt]

Looks like the standard is thereabout 14K these days. I would have expected something around $10k but I guess with economy constraints, prices have risen.

[povopilot]

I would think that around 15k is on the mark. redleader78 you have to be kidding if you think that your PPL only cost $11000, If you did it in around 60 hours (That would be an average I would think) then that means the average hourly rate would be about $110 solo and $200 dual.

On the other end of the scale - tobz92_ymen, I hate to break it to you but it sounds like you have been taken to the cleaners. $1000 for PPL theory? it only costs a couple of grand to do your ATPL's with AFT. Please consider changing flight schools mate.

n707jt, go get a class 1 medical, apply for an ASIC, buy a decent headset, get all of your nav equipment/maps/ERSA/AIP + Amendments and get your head into the two Bob Tait thory books. This will probably set you back $1500. Jump on the web and suss out the pricing for all of the flight schools in your area - be prepared to drive a bit further to get to a decent school. Also enquire about enrolling in an intergrated CPL course - even if you don't plan on going all the way to CPL you should still be eligible for GST free training. If you are planning on stopping at PPL level then consider doing NVFR and perhaps Aerobatics, as they could save you if you find yourself in the **** one day. Add another $5-6000 for this.

Consider skipping the GFPT as well, I don't really understand the point of it apart from earning the flight school a few more bucks.

Before you do anything make sure flying is what you want to do as it is a bloody expensive exercise, and the costs do not stop once you have your license.

Good Luck mate, there are plenty of people out there that want to relieve you of your money.

[mr.tos]

add $1000 for two weeks of theoryI Don't see how anyone can charge 1k for PPL theory. I'm guessing Bob Taits BAK + PPL books will set you back about $150. Anything you didn't grasp simply ask your instructor, and they shouldn't charge you for that! :cool:

[tobz92_ymen]

what i meant was that first week cost me $500, which covered GFPT test, Area Solo Test, Solo Circuit Test,

the second week which was done at a later date was for the PPL test, was $500 aswell. By the way books were NOT included in price. The course i did was structured for someone who didnt want to do the study in own time but instead covered the appropriate theory in the one week,

for $100 a day for 6 hours of ground theory in a class of 5, i dont think its that bad

[KittyKatKaper]

Mr.Tos Anything you didn't grasp simply ask your instructor, and they shouldn't charge you for that!Only if you ask those questions whilst the instructor is being paid., eg in the air, or during a paid lesson.

Like most people I don't mind getting something for 'free'., but put yourself in the instructors situation.
Most people don't mind the occasional question, but an instructor will probably get a stream of questions, from different people and a lot of those questions would require non-trivial amounts of time to answer.
For how long would you keep answering questions without any possibilty of recompense.?

[Jazzy78910]

How does one bypass a GFPT on the way to a PPL? Is it not compulsory, and does CASA not require testing to be done towards it?

[n707jt]

Hey guys

Thanks for your replies. I have checked out a few schools and Whitworth seems to be no 1 on my list now.

I am actually doing my Bachelors in Aerospace Engineering and I do have a Diploma in the same field too. I have read up some of the PPL text and they are very much similar to what I have studied in the engineering field.

So what do you think I should skip so that I can save as much moolah as possible.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

The GFPT is optional but a lot of schools would like you to think CASA says it is compulsory. If their ops manual Section E says to do it, then they have to do it, but it is not compulsory to put that requirement in the ops manual!

By skipping that you can do a lot of the forced landing practice, instrument flying etc while on your navs rather than having to do all that before starting the navs.

All elements in the GFPT have to be re-tested at PPL. IMO the GFPT is a waste of time and money unless you are bursting to take someone up for a fly before starting your navs.

[Di_Vosh]

Tobz92_ymen,

Sorry to say, but it sounds like you're paying way too much for your training. If you've just got your GFPT (30 hours dual and 5 solo) and spent $14k to get that far, you can expect to spend around another $10k at least to get your PPL.

$24,000.00 to get a PPL is way too much money, IMHO.

DIVOSH!

[b_sta]

Agreed with the above. Even excluding the landing fees, you're still averaging $285 per hour of flight time. What exactly are you flying - if it's your ordinary Warrior or 152, that's too much.

[tobz92_ymen]

i pay $270 an hour for a C172 R, then landing fees at ymen and ympc bring it up to about $330 a lesson, its $200 an hour for solo

[Kickatinalong]

You have tooooo much money. WTF are u using a 172R or is it a 172RG?
Kickatinalong.:ugh::ugh:

[Joker 10]

Too much money, his choice, life is about freedom of choice.

Really smart folk go get a RAA licence first these days, learn manipulative skills on low inertia toys, then graduate to spam cans. Saves heaps and gives a great grounding in managing energy.

[Track5milefinal]

Spent $14,000 at 16!!:eek:

Daddy must be loaded AND naive paying that much for a GFPT!:}

[tobz92_ymen]

no its a C172 R, the school has C150 for $250 an hour dual, but i asked why dont we use that and my instrustor responded with "you done want to use that slow old thing"

if i am being ripped off then what should i being paying for dual in a C172, and if not in a C172 then what should i fly instead, and finally can anyone suggest any good flight schools at ymen?

[tobz92_ymen]

i work 4 jobs, y presume that my dad pays for it

[Track5milefinal]

$250p/h for a C152!:mad::mad:

I'd be getting the hell out of there as soon as possible because that is ridiculous!

$190-200 is about par for a 152 these days
$235ish for a 172:ok:

[404 Titan]

Track5milefinal

While I think tobz92_ymen could be doing his licence in less hours than he currently is by going to a country aerodrome school, I have just looked at 10 flying schools that have the same aircraft and the average cost of a C152 dual is $260 p/hr and a C172 dual is $281 p/hr and this doesn’t include landing fees. So yes what he has been quoted would appear to be the new normal price. No wonder no Australians are learning to fly anymore. Just because we are in an economic downturn now doesn’t mean the pilot shortage problem is going to go away. Infact it will be even worse when the upturn eventually happens because even less people during the downturn will be inclined to learn to fly.

[palindrome]

Who the hell charges $250 an hour dual on a 152 ? Someone tell me that it isn't true...

Some schools even charge you a "movement fee", that is absolutely outrageous.

[bushy]

So far only s small percentage of those who have spent big bucks on flight training have made it into airlines. Some go to GA for a few years before either getting an airline job or seeing the reality and quitting.
Airlines love to have lots of young hopefuls waiting in the wings at no cost to the airline.
How many airlines are prepared to make definite committments to trainees?

[b_sta]

Must admit, I can't figure out why the hell a PA28 is now getting up towards $200 rental, what the hell has changed so much lately to drive prices up so much nationwide?

Well, fuel prices were pretty high last year, but nowhere near that level now. And on top of that, given decreased income, decreased economic growth and decreased consumer confidence and general demand for goods and services, prices really should be falling. Should be.

[Biggles_in_Oz]

Fixed costs such as insurance and parking haven't decreased.
eg. parking at a (so far) major GA airport is around $5k/pa, insurance is about $4k/pa, so for 100 hours/pa utilisation those fixed costs alone represent about $90/hr.

Now add maintanence, fuel and operator overheads and a living wage for an instructor and I'm not surprised that the true cost for something like a C150 is around $200/hr.

[VH-YYY]

I was out of flying for a while and when i looked at lots of schools when i decided to complete my training both YMEN and YMMB and the prices that i have seen in this post are very real.

$15k is a realistic price to gain PPL these days, $260-280 is also very real for a C172/PA28 these days.

We can only hope they go down! :ugh:

[tobz92_ymen]

VH-YYY "$15k is a realistic price to gain PPL these days"

where is this possible on a casual or full time basis ? at YMEN, or YMMB

[VH-YYY]

tobz92_ymen ; check your pm's :ok:

[flypilotboy]

Yeah Deaf, like those guys conducting the lollie drop!:ugh:

[redleader78]

sorry been away.

I was flying twice a week. The more frequent the flying the more you retain and don't have to go over as much.
Dual was @ 240 an hour solo @ 180. on the cherokee. and on the sportstar dual @ 200 solo @ 160... My average hourly cost per hour including landing fees was a tad under 220. I budgeted on $240 an average cost including landing fee but came under due too not requiring as much dual time and some hours in the sportstar when it came on the line which dropped the cost. My ppl was at approx 50 hours. I skipped the gfpt and would have been less than 50 hours if i hadn't had to wait as long as i did for my medical so couldn't go solo as early as I could off.. The medical cost I don't include as they are totally variable, depending on the extent of the tests and the mood of the dame I think..

Doing the ppl even in the jabs depending on how long you take to master the difficulties of landing them would be somewhere in the same order.

The study booklets I have a background in aero eng so didn't really need too much of that.

Do your research carefully. But honestly pay what you are prepared to pay for the service you get. Like people have been saying work out what the school has to offer you. I personally found gostners excellent. But everybody has different tastes and different learning rates.

I just pulled out my logbook cause i can't find my spreadsheet with the costs but I did 11.2 of solo 38.8 of dual. Can't be bothered working out which was sportstar hours and which was cherokee hours worse case taking cherokee 2016 for solo time plus 9312 dual = 11312 figure 700 in landing fees works So that calculates to 12k. I did say aprox 11k. just a rough calc looking through my logbook I did around 20 hours in the sporstar, almost all of that was dual so 40 an hour difference and the landing fees are cheaper. So like I said I spent around the 11K mark. I was not kidding myself. A headset it is a nice to have but it isn't a MUST HAVE. Besides the ones on the raa website at $130 are actually pretty good. I am waiting to finish my cpl before i buy mine that way it may be tax deductible.

If I was to do it again.. From start to cpl. I would go raa. At 70hours of raa you can commence raa instructor training.. Then Get employed doing raa instructiong at a raa VH school to your 200+ hour mark. Then aproach your boss and say hey look It would be valuable to convert me over to Vh that way i can instruct other students as well. This conversion may become tax deductable as you are employed already as a "pilot" you should really be declaring that income from raa instructing.. But this advise is general in nature independat taxation advice should be sought. Doing it this way could save you a bundle. Because it gets paid out of pre-tax dollars rather than post tax dollars.

[mcgrath50]

Check out Ebay for headsets i got an almost new David Clark worth a lot more than the $200 I paid for it.