Para Dropping in NZ

[Okavango]

Does anyone have any info on parachute dropping in New Zealand and what typical experience is required? Cheers.

[YELOSUB]

Nz skidive in Mercer
Sounds Air in South island
Taupo
Skydive ballastic blondes Whangarei

Pay is no good for first 6-12 months

Flying in dangerous if done in piston A/C.

[aseanaero]

The best way is to grab your log book , jump in the car and go and have a look and meet them face to face after an initial phone call.

I did it part time for 6 years in Australia , if you find a good operator it can be a lot of fun.

However like most things the clubs slowly become businesses and they will push you to break the law, we have all bent the rules but be prepared to walk when it gets out of control.

By out of control I mean 'IFR' parachute drops and really dodgy maintenance. I refused to fly once when they wanted to put an old leaky lead acid car battery in the C182 , I made them wait 3 hrs while they got a proper battery , and I copped a LOT of flack for that.

The jumpers won't jump when the wind gets over 15 to 20 knots but they will push the pilot to fly in all conditions. Pilots are a consumable commodity.

I got out when they started carrying tandem skydives which were basically members of the public rather than hard core skydivers.

The last flight I did I flew into what I thought was a thin layer of 8/8ths cirrus cloud at 9,500 ft which happen to have a CB hiding inside it. At 11,000 ft it was totally black and the turbulence unreal so I told the jumpmaster I was descending and dropping them at cloud base. The jumpmaster was also a pilot and gave a thumbs up. We broke out of cloud dropped them at 9,000ft and I got balled out by the 'club manager' and partial aircraft owner but not a pilot (Turbo Porter) for not taking them to 12,000ft , I told him what happened (the Jumpmaster was present) and this guy's response was a smart ass 'what cloud ?' ... I could see he couldn't care less about my licence if anything went wrong. I stopped flying skydivers there and then , I'd had enough.

Just remember YOU are PIC so when you break the rules it's you that has to answer.

Great flying , good people but when the operators start getting unreasonable it stops being fun.

[YELOSUB]

PAradropping in NZ is completely different to AUs. in AUs it is considered a Private opperation but in Nz its Commercial operation. The pay is usualy salary in NZ but first 6 - 12 months can be casual @15 - 25 $ a load. And taupo usually require you to have at least 500hrs total time and prefer local pilots or flight instructors. the biggest challange is to get your foot into the door which may require you to hangaround and help them on the ground for free. The most keen pilot will get in. Wx in nz is often windy and cloudy so you will get pressurised to fly but ur the pic and have the final say. Aircraft maintainance is usually good in Nz since its a commercial opperation except in Nzskydive Mercer.

[aseanaero]

Flying is dangerous if done in piston A/C

Hi YeloSub , what do you mean by this ?

Again , as long as the owner/operator maintain the engine and the pilots make sure the engine is sufficiently cooled prior to descent and power is kept at the bottom of the green arc during descent the aircraft there's no problem with piston engine aircraft in skydiving.

I had one total engine failure in a C182 which was a combination of an el cheapo rebuild and the wrong grade engine oil.

They reused the cylinder barrels and pistons from the old engine which had 1,300hrs of skydiving ops, the same club manager I had my argument with about weather couldn't see the value of spending $25,000 (in 1990) on a new remanufactured engine compared to $13,000 on getting an engine rebuild reusing as many of the old parts as possible that met the regulations.

The previous engine lasted 1,300hrs and was strong and reliable , the el cheapo rebuild was down on power from day 1 and lasted 300hrs

After the engine blew one of the other pilots owned up and said they had filled the engine up with Castrol GTX car oil as they were away from base doing a training camp and the engine had started burning oil and they didn't bring enough of the correct oil with them. Someone suggested car oil and the pilot went along with the suggestion. The aircraft arrived back at the field the day prior to my flight , nothing was said to me or to the other pilots (we had about 6 to 8 pilots on the roster) about the high oil consumption or the wrong grade oil being used.

I landed the aircraft on the runway without damage to the airframe (in the dark as it was right on last light) after I shut the engine down at 7,000 due to fuctuating oil pressure on descent from 12,000 ft but the engine had already started to sieze, it had split a piston and the pressure from the combustion chamber pumped the remaining oil overboard , it was all over the underside of the aircraft.

Most skydiving accidents/incidents are fuel or weather related, engine failures happen but are rare.

[aseanaero]

Okavango

Go to the NZ CAA and Aust ATSB accident databases and type in skydiving , it will give you a good feel for what situations to avoid when you are dropping meat bombs.

I haven't mentioned overweight take offs which is also common.

As I said it is great fun and challenging flying but do your homework also to see where other pilots have come unstuck and had an accident.

Good luck :ok:

[framer]

Some of the info on here is debatable;

Usually the condition of the aircraft isn't flash, might be a bit of a culture shock you if you're from the airlines, of course that's a terrible generalisation. Pay isnt flash eitherA few years ago I was flying PJE in a two year old turbine a/c that was maintained to a very high standard. The pilots were treated with respect and the decision to operate or not was theirs. I was working four days a week and taking home about $1000 after tax for my efforts. I joined the company with 500hrs total time. The operation was based in Taupo.
This may not be how it is anymore but I would certainly not be put off by the negative comments here, go out and find out for yourself.
Framer

[aseanaero]

Hi Framer ,

Not negative comments , I did it for 6 years so something must have been ok but the last 6 months wasn't much fun , it really depends on who the operator is , showing both sides of the story.

[framer]

Good stuff Aseanearo,
I enjoyed your post and was not suggesting your comments were negative, I was talking about some of the other posts.
Cheers, Framer

[tred]

The last flight I did I flew into what I thought was a thin layer of 8/8ths cirrus cloud at 9,500 ft which happen to have a CB hiding inside it.

Hmmm....I can see why you got caught out if you thought there was Cirrus cloud at 9500ft!!!!!!!! That would put the airfield elevation at about FL150 or above. Perhapes your lack of meteorology skills is why you ended up at 11000ft IMC.

Just stirring the pot:}

[aseanaero]

Hi tred ,

Oops ,,, correction alto stratus :rolleyes:

[Killer Loop]

If you happen to be down in Queenstown, search out the NZONE pilot S.F. Top guy and will give you all the info you need.:ok:

[YELOSUB]

unless you have the EDM installed in a piston A/C there is no guaranteed way of determining weather you are exceeding CHT on climb or having a dangerously high rate of cooling on decent. Therefore only a turbine aircraft like the Porter or the 750 XL is purpose built for skydiving,both from an engine and airframe point of view, anything else is a compromise to safety.

[framer]

Therefore only a turbine aircraft like the Porter or the 750 XL is purpose built for skydiving,both from an engine and airframe point of view, anything else is a compromise to safety.
Rubbish.
Just fly the a/c sensibly and you won't exceed any limits (airframe or engine).

[lk978]

So a Caravan, otter, skyvan are all comprimises huh? I would rather be in an otter anyday over an XL.

[dabz]

Sorry if my question is a bit off topic however does anyone know an estimate of the cost in getting a Parachute drop rating?

I know there's a ground course and a few drops till a drop master is satasfied with your skills?

[YELOSUB]

5-10 hrs in a 206 in whenuapai. 5- 10 hrs in a 172 in mercer.

[framer]

WTF is a "drop master"?
Don't think we had them five years ago...?? Sounds like a DJ or something...

[dabz]

lol i think i ment a jump master ;p

all i knew was there's a ground course and then some flying time, just didn't know how much time it took.

Parachute drop course
Rule 61.651(a)(3) requires an applicant for a parachute drop rating to have satisfactorily
completed a course in the dropping of parachutists. The course must be conducted by a
parachute organisation whose Part 149 certificate authorises the holder to conduct a course in
the dropping of parachutists.
The ground course would normally include the following:
• A briefing by a jumpmaster on the use of parachutes; and parachuting operational and
emergency procedures; and
• A knowledge of CAR Part 105 - Parachute Operating Rules, and of Part 91 rules -
Parachute-drop operations and Emergency parachute assemblies.
Competency demonstration
Rule 61.651(a)(4) requires an applicant to have demonstrated their competency in the dropping
of parachutists to an authorised person within a parachute organisation. The demonstration of
competence must be conducted by a parachute organisation whose Part 149 certificate
authorises the holder to conduct assessment for a parachute drop rating.

[Corkey McFuz]

5-10 hrs for a drop rating ?? Gee thats a bit excessive isnt it ?? :eek:

[YELOSUB]

My drop rating was done at mercer but they made me fly 9 hrs and a PIANZ theory exam and lots of flight simulation and ground training. Dint pay for the rating but had to work on the ground for 3 months.

[tinpis]

Hmmmm ..... Jim Lyver would that be the ex disk jockey pirate Radio Hauraki chap?

[Cypher]

Matamata might be able to do a drop rating.

Ended up doing 2 hrs in a C206, but I had previous C206 time. Ground theory and exam, and static line parachute jump... as in you do the jump. (ended up doing 5 more after that cause it was actually fun)

Which come to think of it wasn't really a bad idea. All these pilots that swear that they'll never jump out of a perfectly good aircraft is BS and they're
deluding themselves.

Do you really want to make you first parachute jump while your aircraft is outta control, missing a tailplane?

Thankfully in my time I've never had to bail out of a aircraft for real.... but at least I'm comfortable enough to not second guess myself if it comes to that...

[aseanaero]

When I did my training I had to read up on the regs the night before then was given a quiz by the chief pilot and then he was jump master on 2 or 3 loads showing me what the run in should look like and where the spot was on those runs , after that he said good to go.

One tip I can pass on is listen to the spotter on Jump run , if he wants to give you lots of heading corrections just follow them. After a while when you get good at it you'll find you can get the right line without any corrections (or a cheeky 5 left or right with a grin from the spotter just before they leave as they don't want pilots getting big heads) and get to jump height just in time to let them out at the right spot and the right height.

A slight difference between piston and turbine , you want to get to height with a piston on the run in so you give the engine a chance to cool down a bit before descent where as with a turbine you can still be climbing on jump run and stabilise altitude and give them a good exit speed 15 or 20 seconds before exit.

The most difficult spots I ever did was literally reversing the Pilatus Porter at altitude due to 60 to 70 knot headwinds at 12,000 ft, flew upwind of the spot and then slowly drifted backwards and dropped them. This only happened on only a few days in 6 years of jump flying as when the upper winds are blowing like that usually the ground winds are also blowing 20-25 kts plus and only the very experienced guys were addicted enough to handle conditions like that.

Keep a good lookout for other aircraft on climb , especially in what is going to be your 6 oclock position on jump run. The spotters can get so fixated on the drop zone they sometimes forget to have a real good look for other aircraft.

Learn to say NO , some skydivers will jump in any weather and they will always push a pilot , when the conditions are really too bad or dangerous or beyond your skill level it's your call. The more they respect your flying skills the more they will push.

You can get your 'wuss revenge' when it's blowing 30 to 35 knots outside , the skydivers are all on their creeper boards practicing or drinking coffee and you say ok lets go for a load , you won't get any takers . :)

[aseanaero]

Also agree with Cypher , do at least one jump even if it's a tandem

[D-J]

you want to get to height with a piston on the run in so you give the engine a chance to cool down a bit before descent

What types were you flying? on the 182/185's we aim to arrive at the spot still climbing power back to 12'' get em out & 20/2300 on decent which keeps the engine happy

[aseanaero]

Hi DJ,

That was a C182 , the club wanted the pilot to be at height at the beginning of the jump run to allow a cool off but the power settings were lower than yours on descent , bottom of the green arc 17"/2100rpm from memory. Descent was 140kts around 2,200-2,500 fpm with no spirals.

We never shock cooled a cylinder.

[tinpis]

Yer all lucky you was too young to have dropped Ted Hollick :uhoh: http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/taz.gif

[aseanaero]

Yer all lucky you was too young to have dropped Ted Hollick http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/worry.gif

Sounds like a story there Tinpis , please elaborate :)

[codenamejames]

1962 | 0833 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1962/1962%20-%200833.html) Go on tin - do tell

[tinpis]

LOL, yes have chucked out Ted, Bill and Harvey can't remembry the others
Which one are you?
Gawd, Bill Adams looks young :uhoh:

(I think)Threw Bill out on his brand new Para-commander(?) which mal'd and he cut away for a first time for him

[YELOSUB]

Allow 3 mins to cool down before decent(very important). 19in 2200 rpm 110 kts to start off. Can go down to 13 inches 2200rpm 140 kts by 2000ft. Around 8 mins to touchdown from 10000ft. Any less no good.

[tinpis]

Ted Hollick

For those that knew him probably a whole thread required, but can I say that anyone that transports building material for a Great Barrier Island holiday unit LASHED to the OUTSIDE of a Piper Cub, certainly attracts attention.

[prospector]

Tinpis,
Ted Hollick was the only skydiver I ever refused to take up after his first exit from the aeroplane I was driving. The story I heard was the bits were lashed to a Tiger Moth. He was actually working as a septic tank cleaner when I knew him, so he was in it, the smelly stuff, more often then most.

Was Denny Main still the number one man when you were involved??

[aseanaero]

It always used to make me laugh when some poor guy would bring in a beautifully restored classic or vintage aircraft (Tiger Moth , Auster, Stearman , Harvard or whatever) and the skydivers would be pestering the owner to jump out of it , they couldn't get out of the drop zone fast enough !

[tinpis]

prospector, DM knew him but before my time
With TH, Did you know about the missing ignition keys? LOL
Well he did own a Tiger with his flying CHIMNEY sweep and septic tank business, but that ended up in the surf on Claris beach (sp)
I SAW the Cub loaded in AR with house doors lashed to struts and a big 'ol dopey dog sitting on cement bags in the back seat.
He taxiied out for take off NORAD but the tower blew him a red light
He waggled and taxiied in furious circles but they still give him a RED
Eventually the doors drop open, TED climbs out, gives the tower an ENORMOUS FINGER, hops back in and buggers off to the Island :}

[captboeing737ng]

Jim Lyver at mercer avoid at all costs! If you want a parachute drop rating go to matamata. Jim will promise you lots and never deliver I was suppose to be getting a drop rating and spent two months working there did the exam just as I was about to start flying he fired me without any excuse. There is a reason CAA always calling by for "a cuppa".

[NoseGear]

I hear JL has come out of the closet? And Mrs LL has, finally, fecked off and left that sad little SOB.....I could say quite a lot about Mercer, and especially JL.....but Id probably get banned or sued....best advice, avoid him like the plauge, unless you enjoy a jumped up, stropy little wank:mad: yelling, hissing and screaming at you.....:yuk::ugh:

I did hone my tractor driving skills there though....:E:}

[Lineboy4life]

JL reprasant...u all bag the omo out but he gave u your first start in a Porter yer!!!:bored::ugh::yuk::D:}

[Aerozepplin]

Ha! I knew it! Swiss airplanes do ruin your spelling.

But seriously... I have a mate starting at Mercer soon. Anyone have any advice for him to help smooth his (by the sound of things) potentially turbulent times there.
It’s not “a mate” as in “I have this mate with a funny rash what should I do about it” either. An actual mate!

[NoseGear]

KGH, thats brilliant...it's the only thing that jumped up little wretch is likely to understand...a quick, violent finish to a "mis-understanding":ok:

lineboy...A) learn to spell, type and speak in correct english...I'm no english copper, however that is an awful post...this isnt a text messaging board this and B) I was there long before the Porter was, and nothings changed by the sound of it....well, apart from the boss developing an unhealthy appetite for all things Thai....:eek:

IF Jim isn't running Mercer, or anything else related to aviation, then that is a vastly big improvement for all of NZ aviation.:}

AeroZ.....your "mate" can get a cream for the rash and for life at Mercer, earplugs, buttplug, a frequent shopper card at the local liquor store and a winning Lotto ticket should see him right!:E:D;)

[usa_pilot]

Aerozepplin (http://www.pprune.org/members/298625-aerozepplin) if you care about your mate seriously TRUST ME tell him not to work at mercer or anything business related to JL. NoseGear funniest thing I have ever read!!!