Lighting Alternates

[Jay Bo]

Hi currently doing my NVFR and would like some clarification into lighting alternates. As per the regs;

When flight planned to land at night at an aerodrome with electric runway lighting, whether pilot activated or otherwise but without standby power an alternate is required unless portable runway lights are available and a responsible person in attendance

When a flight is planned to land at night at an aerodrome with PAL and standby power an alternate is required unless a responsible person is in attendance

Arent these two contradicting each other? As i read it, you dont need an alternate if you have electric runway with standby power but you need an alternate with PAL and standby power. Isnt the lighting one and the same thing both running on electricity

thanks

[43Inches]

PAL = Pilot Activated Lighting = Activated by VHF radio transmision
You need an alternate because of the chance of a transmitter or reciever failure, either case no lights unless someone is on the ground to manually switch on the lights after failure.

Standby Power = Automatic backup generator
You need an alternate unless there is an approved standby power source in case of mains power failure. Usually this is similar to a hospital setup where a generator will automatically activate if mains power is lost and the lights are required. Jeps or ERSA state if available. No alternate required if PTBL (battery powered etc..) lights available and a person to display them.

If an alternate is required due to standy power being not available than the alternate does not need standby pwr because its unlikely both airports will have the same grid failure.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

No, it makes sense it you think about it.

You need two whacks at getting lights to land by - or you need an alternate.

Senario 1 - Runway lights, portables and someone to put them out and turn them on.

Senario 2 - Runway lights, back-up power and someone to kick the generator over!

Dr :8

[scardycap]

Log onto this link Pilot information - Visual flight guide (http://casa.gov.au/pilots/flitgde.htm) and download the VFR flight guide. It will tell you everything you need to know about day and night VFR flying. This book used to be standard issue years ago. Very invaluable. Towards the back it will summarise all the req for NVFR.
With the lighting don't forget comms.
Keep in mind the neumonic, alternates could very well prove life savers.

A= aids
C= cloud
V= vis
W= wind xwind comp for a/c
p= prob/prov
L= lgt
S= storms

:ok:

[kingRB]

Arent these two contradicting each other? As i read it, you dont need an alternate if you have electric runway with standby power but you need an alternate with PAL and standby power. Isnt the lighting one and the same thing both running on electricityI think the part you are missing is you are not accounting for what you do if you go to activate PAL and nothing happens..... The other is not an issue as the lights are already on before you arrive.

You do need to plan for an alternate with PAL even if it does have standby power... Unless of course you have a responsible person in attendance to either turn the runway lighting on for you, or put out alternative lighting if the PAL fails.

[scardycap]

As an aside what constitues a responsible person. Years ago when I was teaching NVFR I asked this question of a CASA ATO.
Their stance on this is, its a person who has been shown and demonstrated where the lighting switch is and how it is turned on.
The average refueler for eg I've met wouldn't even know where the switch is!
How many comm's have you got? What if you get a radio failure? have you got holding fuel while waiting for this resposible person to turn up?
It's a bigger subject than just memorising the rules. Make sure before each flight you go through senario's so that if something out of the ordinary does happen you are better prepared.
Night flying is fun but there are more things to be aware of.
Having said that Night VFR flying. How many fly at night visually anyway? last I saw there was no horizon to look at. As an exercise ( and instrument rated ) I tried to fly visual without ref to instruments once. Took all of about 20 secs to start getting into a spiral dive.
Fly safe and trust your instruments:ok:

[bentleg]

last I saw there was no horizon to look at. As an exercise ( and instrument rated ) I tried to fly visual without ref to instruments once. Took all of about 20 secs to start getting into a spiral dive.

To get the NVFR rating you have to demonstrate instrument flying, and a landing at a "black hole" airfield. The scenario you suggest should not happen to a properly qualified and current NVFR pilot.


trust your instruments

absolutely agree

[scardycap]

Quote
To get the NVFR rating you have to demonstrate instrument flying, and a landing at a "black hole" airfield. The scenario you suggest should not happen to a properly qualified and current NVFR pilot.

Couldn't agree more however it does happen as does CFIT and a range of other a/c accidents and it happens to people a lot more qualified than you or I.
I can think of a guy who's got 17000 thousand hours flying warbirds who found himself the wrong way up over an airfield once. Properly qualified means jack all. Experience is a different matter.
For the average student pilot who's only had the bare minimum 2 odd hours instrument flying to fulfil his PPL or CPL req the NFVR rating is the first real intro to instrument flying. The req is only 10 hours to gain a NVFR rating. Not very much and if most training organizations are anything to go by, the first hint of cloud or adverse weather they don't fly.
I can remember the older more experienced pilots around the place giving me advice but of course me being a very experienced CPL holder with a NVFR rating and instructors rating and a whole 250 odd hours thought I knew better.
As the saying goes a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.
Couple of thousand hours and couple of years doing night freight I now appreciate more the advice given to me back then.

Forgive my beef but night flying is one of my soap box scenario's:)