First flight of 'Shack' - 9 Mar '49

[PPRuNeUser0139]

The Avro Shackleton had its maiden flight 60 years ago on 9th March 1949. Loved and hated in equal measure by those who flew or maintained them, regardless of what you think of the ‘Shack’, she inspired several generations of airmen (to ask for a posting).

It was during her final incarnation as the “Old Grey Lady” of 8 Sqn that I got to know her. The spec of the Rolls Royce Griffon Mk57 is enough to make even petrol heads like Clarkson salivate: take a 36 litre R-R V-12 (yes, 3 litres each cylinder), with a 6” bore & 6½” stroke, with 48 valves, twin overhead cams, and then fit a two speed, two stage supercharger (with an aftercooler) and then water meth injection.. Each bank of cylinders to have its own exhaust pipe the size of an industrial drain.. The result? One serious ~2,000hp piston engine..

Ignoring all the old jokes (is that an airplane or the box it came in; the contra rotating Nissen Hut; 50,000 rivets in close formation et al), Deborah Lake – an esteemed authoress – is currently writing a history of the ‘Shack’ (all Marks) and would appreciate any material that she could incorporate into it.. These could include anecdotes, factual occurrences, police statements, unpaid bar bills – whatever - as long as they have a Shack theme. Either post them here or send them directly to Deborah at [email protected] I should say that she's already trawled through countless copies of the "Growler".
Not seen or heard a Shack before..? Speakers to max volume and click on this:
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Many thanks

[handysnaks]

Certtainly gave rise to the best zap sticker of all time

8 Screws are better than 4 blow jobs:ok:

[LEE BRITT]

Will never forget that sound :ok::D

[BSweeper]

Apart from the inevitable comment regarding the "spark plug", I always remember the crews unfailing ability to photograph any aircraft that came close to them (for me it was a Phantom).

Also, does anyone rember the unforgettable (but forgotten) crew who used to do the Uk tour - potatoes from Coningsby taken to St Mawgan, Fish from St Mawgan taken to Lossie, Shrimps from Lossie taken to Coningsby etc.
They were a fantasic crew and we always had a good time with them.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Not forgetting the fresh fruit and veg out to Gib..!

[ArthurR]

If I remember rightly, wasn't the Shack a development of the Lancaster, I do know that the up country rags in Aden, where terrified of them, stayed around to long, Hunters where only there for a few mins.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

sidevalve. As Mr J H Orrell's log book records;

2-3-49 VW126 15:00 to 15:20. Hops
9-3-49 VW126 10:50 to 11:30. First Flight
9-3-49 VW126 15:15 to 16:30. Rudder Checks

He reported after the first flight; "flew extremely well and had that comfortable feel of its predecessors the Lancaster and Lincoln".

Clearly, Mr Chadwick did design excedingly good aeroplanes.

[avionic type]

Lancaster, Lincoln, Shackleton , same company but new airframes wings ect and of course more powerful engines , having to explain to our American cousins at Gibraltar and all points over the globe why 1 prop went one way and the 2nd the other [the reason we were given was if there had only been 1 prop the a/c would have flung itself all over the sky at full power with the torque and the undercart would have had to be double its length for the length of prop to absorb the power] as it was the swing on take off was nil into wind so our aircrew told us .
flying in it for ground crew was boredom personified 10 -12 hours flying and all you saw was sea with the odd ship to add to the excitement and being deaf as posts for hours afterwards , but I,m a Shack man through and through apart from the early ASV13 radar they gave very little trouble [perhaps because they were brand new for the 2 years I was on them ]and I saw some wonderful places in the near and far east whilst on exercises with 224 squadron. I mourn its passing.:bored::bored::bored:

[denachtenmai]

Shack MR2C, wow, memories,204 Ballykelly, just out of Cosford and finding that when doing an 'ARI' change on the ASV21, DO NOT drop a 2BA (istr) securing bolt into the scanner well, you just can't reach it even with mechanical fingers, fortunately Dougie Hay had long legs and prehensile toes! position the scanner correctly and he could get said leg(and toes) between the brackets and retrieve the bolt, bit of a bummer when he left, you had to remove the whole scanner which was a pain in the butt:{
regards Den.
Ps, still my favourite aircraft, and the sound was,is,magic :ok:

[pmills575]

If you had a skinny boy on your shift it was easier to remove the T/R, no winch required! You could just about feed him through the gap!

Peter Mills

Gatwick Aviation Museum - Charlwood (http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk)

[dakkg651]

The last RAF aeroplane to fly Rolls Royce and leather seats I believe.

Only flew in one once. Noisy, draughty, cold (except in the radar compartment with all those glowing valves), uncomfortable................magic.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Only flew in one once. Noisy, draughty, cold (except in the radar compartment with all those glowing valves), uncomfortable................magic

Yes, you've got it in one.. just like flying in your favourite garden shed - but minus the charm..
It was once said that if you heard a Shack you were lucky.. because that meant you weren't in it..
As I said at the top, a love/hate relationship.. if you were on the sqn, the odd note of criticism was allowable (1 per month was acceptable!) - but heaven help anyone from outside who dared to point a finger..
But some things remain burnt in the dusty recesses of your memory for all time.. the truly earsplitting sound of 4 Griffons being wound up to 2600rpm and max chat, exhausts glowing bright orange with a 3ft gout of flame from each one, for a low level beat up somewhere..
I can still recall the mother of all low beat-ups we once gave to the isolated USAF radar site (H3/Hofn/"Critic") up at Kef with perfect (frightening) clarity..:E

[MadsDad]

Went to an air-day at St. Mawgan, long time back, and one of the party was an ex-Shackleton engineer. So a Shack is doing it's display and is visible, a couple of miles out, turning towards the runway.

Tannoy "and if you look to your right you can see the Shackleton coming in for a high-speed pass"
Ex-eng "I'm just going for a coffee"
Me "I thought you wanted to see the Shackleton display"
Ex-eng "I'll be back in plenty of time"

[denachtenmai]

For a bit of nostalgia
YouTube - Shackleton Tribute (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEw4eLWtuqg)
regards Den.

[Warmtoast]

The only photo I have in my collection of a Shackleton was taken at Biggin Hill on the occasion of the 1954 Royal Observer Corps Recognition Day. Once a year a Royal Observer Corps 'Recognition Day' was held at Biggin Hill. A variety of RAF, RN and USAF aircraft were flown in so the Royal Observer Corps and members of the army Anti Aircraft Command, (both organisations at the time integral elements of the air defence of the UK), could see up close the friendly aircraft they were expected to recognise.

Poignantly my photo is of Shackleton Mk2, serial number WL743, of 42 Sqn, St. Eval (Cornwall). This particular aircraft went missing on the night of 11 January 1955 and is assumed to have collided with WG531, also from 42 Sqn, south-west of Ireland. It was declared Cat.5 the same day.

In total eighteen crew died, nine in each aircraft.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Biggin%20Hill%20Early%201950s/ShackMk2b.jpg

[Pontius Navigator]

Certainly gave rise to the best zap sticker of all time

8 Screws are better than 4 blow jobs:ok:

And knickers to match.

At a German Airshow, having ditched her husband, on Frau inched up behind us, pushed some money into our mitts and ask for a pair. Really brown paper package job. :}

One man. or someone, was in for a surprise.

[Pontius Navigator]

I have a large photo of a pair of 8 Sqn Shacks in flight, 90 in the background, by the late Al Campbell.

The bottom of the pic is now chemically discoloured but the main area is fine. It is too big to scan.

[pmills575]

Of course the MKIII with Vipers must be the ultimate Shack, Eight screws AND two blow jobs!

[Dominoe]

Dear All,

I grew up at St.Eval (yes it explains a lot!). My father was based first at St.Eval and then later at St.Mawgan. I remember one Sunday morning a formation of Shackletons flying over. I was told it was the disbandment of 42 Sqn to make way for the Nimrod.

Does anybody on this forum know the date of that flypast at St. Eval please? It`s a sound that will forever be in my head.

Many years later I was on a detachment (APC) in Decimomannu and remember playing the famous game of Shackletons on the Americans. What a great laugh as somebody shouted "Blimey the whole blinking aircrafts on fire" (or words to that effect!). There was beer absolutely everywhere. I suppose games like that will become folklore.

[pmills575]

The Nimrod starting arriving at 42 Sqdn in April 1971, the Shackleton records show that the last Shack left 42 in September 1971. So presumably your flypast probably took place during that year. We have a picture showing 42 Sqdn lined up in front of a MKIII dated July 1971.

P Mills
Gatwick Aviation Museum - Charlwood (http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk)

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Of course the MKIII with Vipers must be the ultimate Shack, Eight screws AND two blow jobs!

and for our younger viewers, the Vipers were run on AVGAS..:eek: (before my time all this..!)
sv

BTW 73 yrs ago today, the Spitfire took to the air for the first time.. right place, right time, right everything..
If ever there was a just-in-time procurement.. this was it!

back to thread..

[Rossian]

When 203 Sqn at Ballykelly got its Viper added Mk 3s there was always the palaver that kept them at the marshalling for ages requesting "permission to start Vipers". To those of us on the Mk2 squadrons it was a source of irritation (OK jealousy).

One rainy morning our Sergeant co-pilot asked tower "permission to start Vipers" - Big question mark appears over tower "but you're a Mk2?"
To which our bold young lad said "I know - it's for my vindscreen vipers" and collapsed into giggles. Smiling capt delivered an admonitory cuff round the bone-dome.

The Ancient Mariner

PS To add that in the video clip a few posts back, the sight of a rounder-faced Mike Bondesio in the SAAF Shack brought back memories of the period he was the co-pilot on the same crew mentioned above. Sad to think that is also no longer with us.

[camlobe]

I find it incredibly difficult to accept that it was a 'mere' 20 years ago that five Shacklebombers paid homage to that great British aircraft manufacturer, AVRO.

The perfectly flown four-ship with accompanying 'press kite' flew from the Old Grey Ladies home at RAF Lossiemouth down to Woodford. The weather gods were kind, and the reception from all at this historic AVRO site was unforgettable. Some of the press on board the 'press kite' did make unrealistic requests, but such is their want for the 'defining shot'.

The Boss, Wg Cdr Dave Henken, elected to accept the 20+ kt crosswind (do what???) and led the five aircraft in to land. Lots of excitement had by all trying to cope with those conditions. The 'press kite' WL756, with Norman Hunter driving, was last to land, but his 8000+ hours of experience on type wern't wasted. OK, there was the starboard wheel lock-up which aquaplaned and put the rather deep pudles contents up and over the starboard wing - all recorded for posterity by the nations TV press, but all arived safely. Her Majesty's finest did their work well that day.

The excited, uncontrolled crowds didn't really appreciate that 40 whirling metal propellers wouldn't slow down if they struck flesh and bone, but the aircraft managed to park in a line facing the crowds without too much trouble. Among the throng were those who had been involved in the original manufacture, modification and upgrades of this venerable aircraft type. There were relatives of those involved, who insisted in seeing what grandad/uncle/brother had made so much fuss about for so many years. One chap I met was involved as a head-of-design of the AEW mod, and he advised me that the MOD decided to accept the nose-down in-flight aspect of the aircraft, and refused to pay for correcting the issue. I guess somethings don't change.

A superb reception, a tour of the 146 production line (don't forget, this was when Britain still had an aircraft manufacturing industry), and retire to the very nice hotel after for tea and biscuits (or was it steak and beers?).

Huge uproars when we are seen on every TV channel, arriving at Woodford. Did you see that windsock? 20 knots my butt. More like 35.

In the grey morning, the Boss advised the crew chief's that, as the 10th was Red Nose Day, 8 Squadron would have red noses. Not the crews, the aircraft. And they would be red by the time he turned up to fly.

The guys at Woodford bent over backwards to help us find red paint, brushes, and steps high enough to carry out the required task. Just in time, the last stroke of the brush was applied. I have a grainy old photo somewhere showing the distinct colour scheme.

The return trip was routed over many conurbations, ensuring as many members of public as possible were able to appreciate the Squadrons very red, forward appendages.

Mac, the Squadron painter was the only one less than amused, as he had to restore the original grey. That task kept him grumbling for a good few days. Where are you now Mac?

Every day, when I park up outside my own aviation maintenance business, I look upwards at the sky, breath deeply, remember those no longer with us, and rejoice in the memories of eight and a half years of my life spent on Shackletons.

And when I look opposite the door into the hangar, I see Mr Rusty staring back at me. and If I look closely, I can see that Mac didn't get all the red paint off either.

Uspiam et Passim

camlobe

[olddog]

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2631/28/52/1397285526/n1397285526_30275940_1035154.jpg

Time to bring the cold beers to the airfield!! Note No1 and No2 Engines are Feathered

[Pontius Navigator]

Just found a stack of old air-to-air slides that I didn't remember having taken. I am in the process of digitizing but Mrs PN wants family ones first :)

[olddog]

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs012.snc1/2631_1098120498701_1397285526_30275942_5548879_n.jpg

Note the Nose Lettering

[olddog]

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2631/28/52/1397285526/n1397285526_30275941_4117497.jpg

The Water tower on the domestic site loomed quite large and we rattled the windows in SHQ!!

[Shack37]

Majunga Circa 1972

Great picture OD. I also have a copy, I believe it's a 38 Sqn aircraft from Luqa so more likely early to mid sixties.

s37

[olddog]

Shack 37, I bow to your greater knowledge!

However, this was still the standard way to advise the duty crew that transport was needed on return. HF/VHF comms were tenuous even in the later days of the Beira Patrol. I can remember relaying messages via Salisbury ATCC as well!

[PPRuNeUser0139]

OD,
That old 37 seater bus in your pic brings back some memories.. what truly awful things they were..

Excellent pics - keep 'em coming..

There are some legendary stories out there.. and most of them I heard 10th hand.. and they're often distorted in the telling..

Ones I'd like to hear re-told: 'Pop' Gladstone & Culloden Moor and WH bouncing off the sea and getting away with it..

sv

[denachtenmai]

204 Ballykelly,walking down the hill to work,turned right to go across the bottom pans,a short cut if walking, and we saw a strange looking Shack, there was definitely something wrong with it's shape, then we twigged, there was no radome or ASV components, no tail wheel doors, no camera doors or cameras, the bomb bay doors at the back were all crumpled. It turned out that it had got too close to the 'oggin on a night sortie and Bill Houldsworth just managed to pull it back into the air:eek:
Bill was a super bloke,only about 5'7" and weighed about 9 stone but he, and the rest of the crew, managed to save themselves from being a statistic.
Istr that the AYF (a precursor to Rad Alt) was deemed to have been the major cause in that it dropped out at a critical time:suspect:
I left BK just after and never found out what happened to the airframe, but Bill got an AFC I think and I remember reading about it in Airclues later
Regards, Den.

[Shack37]

We had a similar incident on 206 at St. Mawgan in the sixties which had a verse dedicated to it in the squadron calypso.

To the tune of Island in the Sun:

Not so very long ago
Foxtrot was flying far too low
Without the aid of a rigger's spanner
Two squadron Leaders lost the scanner

The air cadet who was looking out of the tail cone at the time was quite impressed.

s37

[pmills575]

As far I remember 38 Sqdn only flew MKIIs

203 with MKIIIs moved to Hal Far from BK in Jan/Feb 1969 to take over from 42's temporary detachment, which had started at Luqa but they were relocated whilst the runaway was being resurfaced. 203 Later move back to Luqa once the work completed.

P. Mills
Gatwick Aviation Museum - Charlwood (http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk)

[Rossian]

Old dog.
Your picture of the beach run brings to mind the time when I guested with another crew and on return to homeplate we opted for the beach run. Normally we approached from the other direction (from that piccy) and had to hop over the long jetty that had a really old fashioned crane on it (but quite tall!) out at the end. It had never moved. As we barrelled in along the beach all eyes were concentrated on the height to get over the jetty and only at the last minute was there a cry of "Someone's moved the f&&king crane!!!!!" Lots of big handfuls of lollipops and crinkly chips and a drastic lurch to starboard up the tree covered hill with a huge amount of noise and confusion.

At that very moment, our detcom, the lovely Doug Fairbairn, was taking afternoon tea with the prefect of the province, who had called to complain about the increasingly low passes along the beach, which were causing some alarm and despondency amongst the locals. "My chaps are paragons of professionalism and circumspection " claimed Doug as the Shacklebomber roared across the garden at tree-top height scattering twigs and leaves over the tea table. Fortunately (for us) the captain had NOT opted for the two out on one side tecnique otherwise we'd never have made it up the hill. The capt was spoken to - mainly for the embarrassment factor to the detcom, not the fly-by tecnique. There was a definite atmosphere of "I can go lower than you" had crept in over that det and it was one of several incidents when I could say "I learned about flying from that"
The Ancient Mariner

PS So did the young nav who forgot the first few words of Buys Ballot's law and flew the wrong way round a dying cyclone; we thought we wouldn't get home. For those who've forgotten - IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE with wind at your back the low pressure is on the LEFT

[Wensleydale]

In the early eighties (no log book with me at moment) we (an 8 Sqn crew)were on Minival at Lossie and tasked to fly the final line of the exercise - PLE with no expected trade and lots of voicetel and SAR training in prospect. Endex is called 2 hours or so before take-off, but instead of the prospect of home for the first time in 3 days the decision is taken to go ahead with the sortie.

One somewhat quiet crew is therefore at the end of the runway with the prospect of a very long day/night ahead. It starts with a Watermeth takeoff for the F700 (we could inject a water methanol mix into the engine to somewhat boost the power - if not done for a while it became a flight requirement to do one) and the day became somewhat less tedious shortly after. The flight deck patter went on the lines of....

"Rolling..."
"V1"
"Watermeth failure No 2"
"V2"
"Engine failure No 2"
"Rotate"
"Engine Fire no 2".

......in quite short order.

We called "Mayday" after ATC had already hit the crash alarm having heard the huge bang caused by the crank shaft disintegrating which led to 2 of the pistons to fly through the block and out of the engine (one cut neatly through the starter motor on the way). We did not hear the bang over the usual roar of the engines!

We staggered into the air with the engine trailing flame and smoke for very many feet behind us - picture the Battle of Britain film special effects! Thankfully the E Drill in the FRCs put the fire out - we now had the problem of a full fuel load - 3284 gallons of high octain AVGAS. The solution was a low level circuit to land with 6 hours to landing weight. It would be a heavy one.

Everything else went smoothly - the aircraft came to a halt - the ladder came out on the runway and we legged it as the remainder of the oil and fuel in No 2 engine deposited itself over some very hot brakes. Time airborne - less than 2 minutes - converted to 5 mins for the log book. At least we got home earlier than expected - and my horrorscope in the SUN that day.... "keep your feet firmly on the ground". Russel Grant obviously knew more than me that day.

Happy memories (now).

[Shack37]

I've tried resizing this in Photobucket and in my own editor. If anyone wants to save it and have a try, please do.
s37



http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/aa163/exshack37/th_ShackadvisingarrivalMajunga.jpg

[Pontius Navigator]

Wendsleydale, I had obviously just gone then. The only comment I can make is 'hours hog'.

Anything less than 2min 30sec should log as zero otherwise you should ad 5 min to most sorties :).

In the mid-60s, Boltholed from Waddo to Coningsby we tried to get off 21 and land on 08 in under 2min 30sec so as to log zero flight time but I don't think anyone managed. AND YOU HAD THE CHANCE!

[Wensleydale]

PN,

I only go on the times given to me by the Nav!..... Otherwise log book does not tie in with the Auth Sheet.

So who did obtain the D'eath and Sons sign on the det to Conningsby?

W

[Shack37]

I only go on the times given to me by the Nav!..... Otherwise log book does not tie in with the Auth Sheet.



And this of course depends on which "landing" was logged":E

s37

[Wensleydale]

s37

How True!

Sitting wedged between the wing spars behind the A seat for landing, one used to have a rule of thumb.......

As soon as the wheels first touched (hit?) the runway you started to say the Lord's Prayer. If you got to the end of the second line before:

a. the wheels touched again, or
b. the pilots said anything

then you knew that you were in for a hard one!

w

[Rossian]

I wonder if other a/c types had the same probs with water meth as the Shack seemed to have?

IIRC the normal t/o settings were 2600 and 58" of boost and that with water meth it went up to 2750 and 84". No doubt someone will put me right. However it always seemed to be a wildly unpredictable process accompanied by lots of earsplitting bangs and drop outs causing alarm on the footplate and the eng's panel.

One night we finally got airborne in water meth and in the silence as everyone's heart rate subsided a small voice from the starboard beam announced " I know the exhausts are brighter at night but the flames are way past the tailplanes" Fire in no. 4. Shut down. Capt opts to get opinion of authoriser who happened to be the sqn boss. Stay a/b and burn it off was the advice (no dump in those days). Bollocks says capt and put it very carefully back on the runway. Boss appears at the pan and proceeds to bollock capt as there were no signs of fire on no.4. As we turned away the eng's torch swept across no. 3 and there we saw the entire contents of engine oil had spewed out into the exhaust flare of no.4(gulping I think it was called). Had we stayed a/b how long would no.3 lasted with no oil?? Do we restart an engine shut down for engine fire??? would the beast fly at that that weight on 2 - er no.

Phew! Retired to the scruffs for a few beers and felt better.

The Ancient Mariner

[oxenos]

2600 and 58" was the most normally used in flight. Take off without water meth was 2750 and 67", with water meth was 2750 and 81".
O Xenos

[Rossian]

See! I told you there would be someone along dreckly.
The Ancient mariner

[PPRuNeUser0139]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/Geoff_Cooper/Shack20advising20arrival20Majunga.jpg

sv

[Shack37]

SV
Thanks for that
s37

[Rossian]

The foreground view is better than the background one! Francoise Morel and her friends - non?
The Ancient Mariner

[PPRuNeUser0139]

SV your piccy

The foreground view is better than the background one! Francoise Morel and her friends - non?
The Ancient Mariner

I deny all knowledge m'lud.. this was Shack 37's pic that I put up for him..

But you're right.. a cut above a Burghead prawn peeler..!:E

sv

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Deborah has asked me what the difference is between the Griffon Mk 57 & the 58..?
Despite Google being a good mate, I haven't been able to find out the answer for her..
Any ideas..?
TIA
sv

Thread creep: good scoreline from Anfield at the moment of typing!:D

[AES]

Have just sent you a PM.

Krgds
AES

[donthaveone]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/jodeld117/RAFShackletonsFlypast1953.jpg?t=1236790830

[My T Hunter]

Sobering to think that it will take our entire MPA fleet to do that in the future.

[Geezers of Nazareth]

To: 'donthaveone' ...

what was the occasion? Any idea what date?

[donthaveone]

I found this picture in a brown OHMS envelope in the attic! It is probably the Coronation Flypast but I cannot be sure as I was only 2yrs old then.
My Fathers logbook shows he was flying formation details in Shacketon "B" on 24th & 25th April from Bally Kelly (269 Sqdn) but not on the day of the Coronation Flypast (2nd June or 15th July).

[avionic type]

As a elect/ mech air at Gib with 224 squadron in 1951/53 we had Shack 1s but befor I left the Mk2 was a visitor on proving flights and one of the aircrew said he had the misfortune to have occupied the position in the tail as a viewing position and was very sick as it had a slight continuous circular motion was this a 1 off or was it common to all mk2s ? we did not disbelieve him as he looked very green and unsteady .:eek::eek::eek: [thinks how can I remember this after all these years and cant remember what I actually did last week.]

[Postfade]

205 Sqn at Changi in 1962. 2c's and 1A's.

http://www.davidtaylorsound.co.uk/share/Aircraft%20pics/205%20Sqn%20line-up%20Changi%201962-S142A.jpg

The Aussies leave their mark. 205 sqn 1A at Changi (western dispersal) early 1962.
http://www.davidtaylorsound.co.uk/share/Aircraft%20pics/The%20aussies%20leave%20their%20mark-Shack1A%20Changi%201962-S1158A.jpg

WL745 the first 2c for 205 sqn does some engine out practice.
http://www.davidtaylorsound.co.uk/share/Aircraft%20pics/Shacklton%202C%20WL745%20-engine%20out%20practice%20early62-S1243A.jpg

David Taylor.

[donthaveone]

It's taken me a while to figure out how to put these images on at the right size but I got there in the end!
Unfortunately there are no dates with these pictures but they were taken between April 52 and April 55.
The formation pictures have "Air Ministry" stamped on the back.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/jodeld117/formation.jpg?t=1237121770

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/jodeld117/BuckPalace.jpg?t=1237121947

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/jodeld117/OneEngine.jpg?t=1237124778

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/jodeld117/SAR.jpg?t=1237124943

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/jodeld117/Gib.jpg?t=1237125069

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/jodeld117/DadShackleton.jpg?t=1237125165

[PPRuNeUser0139]

So that was the fabled Shackleton Diamond 17 formation..?;)

The sound of those 68 mighty Griffons must have rattled tea cups right across central London..

Where are all the stories..? (I know they're out there!)

[camlobe]

donthaveone's pic of WL 796 with 1, 2 and 4 shut down looked familiar and made me scramble for a publication resting beside my desk. Found it. This limited edition book, compiled by a gentleman named Harry Holmes and was presented to those of us lucky enough to attend Woodford for the 40th aniversary of the Shacklebomber in March 1989.

On page 20, there is a pic of WL 796, complete with Saro Mk 3 airborne lifeboat, flying along the the Farnborough display line with 1, 2 and 3 feathered...and no more than one wingspan (120 feet) above the ground. Test pilot Johnny Baker is credited as the driver.

In the mid 80's, we were honoured to have a student from the US Naval test Pilots School come and have a play.

How this works is thus: the student gets towards the end of his course. The final task is to carry out the complete flight test regime on a type of his choice. This chap decided to try something completely different. An AVRO Shackleton. The Boss agreed to the request, and the student, complete with supervising Instructor arrive and go through the whole nine yards. Starting with basic measurements of aircraft, turning circles, mechanicals, etc, etc. The student has to build the Flight Manual for this aircraft of his choice. Strictly speaking, he is not allowed to look at the published Flight Manual. Well, that would defeat the object of being a Test Pilot for a new type, wouldn't it?

Onwards to ground handling, brake performance tests, turns without scrubbing the inboard main, etc.

Then flying. Straightforward stuff to start with. Take off and climb ahead, gentle turns etc. Approaches and go-arounds.

Then landings. We all stood out to watch, as the ol'e Grey Lady was intolerant of ham-fisted and lapsidaisical misshandling.

Now, before you start shaking your heads, remember that an experienced Flight Engineer was manning his post, and the Squadron QFI was also on board.

This colonial upstart made everyone's jaw drop. I never saw one bouncer. Nor did I see any sideways scrubbing. All of this from a young, conventional (i.e. nosewheel) trained pilot who would be completely unfamiliar with operating a 42 ton, four-engined taildragger. Bear in mind, due to the radome housing the AN/APS 20 radar scanner, all landings had to be three-pointers. Of course, I didn't see all his landings. But, maybe, just maybe, these US Naval types are a bit good at what they do.;)

As the testing continued, certain, normally avoided parts of the flight envelope were approached. For instance, deliberatly shutting down and feathering both one one side, and then exploring yaw inputs.

The only real stopping input the QFI made was 'NO SPINNING'. The loss of the Mk 3 prototype during spinning trials lay the ground rule for this decision on all Shacks.

From the feedback I heard, the student graduated with top marks plus.

It is nice to know that a a 1950's airframe with a 1940's radar system that, 20 years after it was originally withdrawn from service, was employed into the 1990's in the primary defence of the Realm, and in the process helped to contribute to modern flight testing for the worlds largest naval air arm.

camlobe

[avionic type]

Thank you dontraveone for the pictures especially the one of the Shack 1 at Gibraltar It is a 224 squadron aircraft the "B" aft of the door was the letter as that squadron and looking at the state of it I would say early 1951 they got rather grubby after that with exhaust gasses and the amount of flying working up for our trips further afield .

[Alan Mills]

The same co-pilot(210 Sqn) had applied for a commission. At Biggin Hill he was asked who Mcnamara was. His reply of "the leader of the band" did not go down too well! He later became a civilian pilot on 707s, and there my trace ends

[Geezers of Nazareth]

Donthaveone ... the formation(s) of Shacks over Buck House was in 1952, although I don't have an exact date. The only note I had/have was "? x 240 Sqdn Shackleton Mk1s" which I have now updates to read "18 ...".

Were 240 Sqdn a Shackleton unit in 1952? Would they have had enough aircraft to launch an '18-ship'?

[donthaveone]

Geezer, as I mentioned earlier, I do not have any dates on the pictures but if you type "Coronation Flypast" into a search engine, it will direct you to a very interesting article with pictures of the Shackleton formation taken by someone who was there!
I cannot answer your question but I found this cutting pasted in my Fathers logbook on the December 1956 page(at the end of his time on these aircraft):

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/jodeld117/test7.jpg?t=1237569486

[henry crun]

Coronation Wings by Eric Bucklow contains a wealth of infomation including many photos of every aircraft that took part in the flypast and were in the static display.
The details include each serial number, pilot name, squadron, etc.

There were 18 Shackletons in the coronation review flypast from 42, 120, 206, 220, 240, 269 squadrons, and 4 in the static display.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

In Shackleton history, this must be a unique artifact;

RAF Aircraft COCKPIT MACH Trim Instrument Shackleton ? on eBay, also, Aircraft Parts, Aircraft Aviation, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 02-Apr-09 18:05:08 BST) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=130291313411)

:}

[Geezers of Nazareth]

Coronation Wings by Eric Bucklow contains a wealth of infomation including many photos of every aircraft that took part in the flypast and were in the static display.
The details include each serial number, pilot name, squadron, etc.

There were 18 Shackletons in the coronation review flypast from 42, 120, 206, 220, 240, 269 squadrons, and 4 in the static display.


I'm aware of that book - in fact, I typed most of it! (long story, don't ask!).

However, 'Coronation Wings' covers the events at RAF Odiham, and those Shacks are overhead Buckingham Palace. Research continues.

[Neptunus Rex]

The Shackleton did not have an elevator gear change, or a Mach Trim. However, the Nimrod did.

Cheers,

Neppie

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Indeed, the Type 696 didn’t and the 801 did. The " :} " smiley was significant. :ok:

I was rather hoping this might develop along the lines of the “did you fly the Vulcan” Thread but it seems to be drying up.

[Lancman]

The date for the formation flypast over Buckingham palace was the 5th of June 1952 and the event was the Queen's Official Birthday.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

I was rather hoping this might develop along the lines of the “did you fly the Vulcan” Thread but it seems to be drying up.

GBZ - yes I must admit to being a bit surprised myself about the lack of inputs..

One story springs to mind - apologies for it being 2nd or 3rd hand.. but in the last years of the old Grey Lady on 8 at Lossie, apparently there was a sortie with Mal M*****k as the capt with 'Bloggs' as co..

It was Bloggs' take off, they lined up, and after brakes off, the beast started thundering down the runway..

The Eng called V1 and VR, but the aeroplane stayed resolutely on the ground as Bloggs continued with a fixed look on his face.

Capt on I/C: "Are you going to rotate, Co..?"

Co: "Sorry, I was miles away.." and heaved back on the column..

I'm assured this happened..

There must be more..

sv

[aw ditor]

Bit like a Mk3 Phase2 (minus Vipers) on take-off from 26 at Kinloss. If there was a dinghy race in Findhorn Bay their masts were "obstructions"!

[virgo]

In the bar at RAF Luqa, Malta...............Young flying-officer pilot "On 39 squadron we've got eight Canberra PR 7s, six are serviceable and four are flying."
Elderly 38 squadron flight-commander.............."we've got eight Shackleton
MR 2s, none are serviceable - all of them flying."