The QANTAS Thread

[pxcity]

Does anyone know if LG has been sacked recently? her name has been removed from cabin crew website>

[Domestos]

Wow! That is juicy news.....I hope its true. I guess now that AJ is in, perhaps he is shaking out all the dead wood. I'm not getting excited just yet, until something is officially announced. Looks promising though! :D

[ditzyboy]

Wow! That is major news... Strange nothing has been said officially.

I did hear rumour of a rift amongst the ladies of the inner circle. LG and AW?

It could also be that LG left at her own accord. Many higher level execs were none to pleased with the appointment of CEO. Perhaps she voted with her feet?

Just goes to show that, under Dixon, those in upper management seemed (to me) only interested in looking after themselves.

[Bad Hat Harry]

Maybe she has been promoted or moved sideways and is no longer associated with Cabin Services.
Perhaps she is just having a new post botox photo taken

[mrpaxing]

Name: L G
Haul & Category: QF Longhaul Crew CSM
Email Address: [email protected]

very funny the search on qfcrew produced this result:=:*:\

[GalleyHag]

mr paxing

We both must be bored I just did the same search. I also note that LG has been removed from the executive team on qantas.com which she has always appeared.

[QF A330]

My wife's seniority global seniority was down by 30 this morning and this afternoon is down by only 16, up by 14 from morning.

Have more crew been been granted VR from March 1?

The number seems to go up and down when crew departures occur.

Regards.

QF A330

[surfside6]

Mine went down by 70 this morning and back up by 40 this afternoon.Your wife must have around 28 years up

[Domestos]

I wonder if the 'Black Widow' will bring 'White Stockings' with her and the other handbag swingers......good riddens!!!!!

[trolldolltrolldoll]

i wonder... i dropped 90 spots..

[pxcity]

If LG and all her cronies can form a cabin crew team, operating a LAX to AKL sector successfully then she should be saved; otherwise ground them in Auckland forever.:ok:

[mrpaxing]

on the QF leadership team as displayed on the internal website.:yuk:

[blackguard]

Getting peoples hopes and then dashing them.

[Shazz-zaam]

Forget the LAX/AKL too easy. Send them on a Mumbai trip, several back to back with minimum slip, only then will they earn my respect.

[blackguard]

Why merge two threads that have very little to do with each other.?
The Blacks Widows departure has nought to do with seniority.

[cokecropduster]

The new Qantas Domestic people are maybe the reason for numbers going up and down. They are including them in the bidding process. (approved by the union...).

[argusmoon]

If my seniority is 600 and 70 new people are employed,my seniority is still 600.
New hires dont affect seniority except for bidding purposes

[High Class Queen]

Not sure if the new Qantas Domestic will impact on Qantas Airways crew seniority as there is no seniority with Qantas Domestic. Read the QANDOM workplace agreement.

[cokecropduster]

The Qantas Domestic people SHOULDN'T affect our seniority but it would if they are putting them into the system with different numbers. It would explain why they are on trips that people are bidding for. (I am just thinking out loud... but makes sense).

[Bla_Bla]

does anyone know how safe our jobs are ?
just been hearing all these rumors at work...
if the worse comes i understand that it is last in first out ?
but would that mean QCCA ( cheaper labour ) or QAL ?

could anyone shed the light ?

pls note: i dont wanna start any of that stuff of QCCA & QAL ...... we r all on the same boat here ( or aircraft as matter of fact :) )

[Bla_Bla]

5th March 2009
Attention all Long Haul Flight Attendants

MAJOR INDUSTRIAL UPDATE

Airline Industry Update
Last week I attended a briefing with the CEO Alan Joyce regarding the general position of Qantas in terms of the Aviation Industry. The Good news is that Qantas is one of only a handful of airlines that remain profitable in the current environment.
The decisions taken around business segmentation over the last few years have placed Qantas in a stronger position to withstand the global financial maelstrom than most of our competitors.
Japan Airlines and Cathay Pacific are likely to post up to 2 billion dollar losses and British Airways have indicated losses of nearly 270 million pounds in the last quarter. These figures are in many ways incomprehensible. Yet Qantas remains competitive on the Domestic Market and the decisions made around the Long Haul Cabin Crew EBA 8 continue to position us well compared to other Cabin Crew groups.
Nonetheless we are in a constant discussion with Management to work through the challenges of softening demand for premium travel in particular, that is affecting all airlines worldwide.
In the last few days I have written a few newsletters with some levity but with underlying messages of how serious the situation is for all of us in terms of our desire to maintain job security.

747 Four Class Configured Aircraft
In the last 24 hours, system wide figures for advance bookings have been analysed and the decisions have been made to implement changes that will take cost out of the operation.
We have been in very detailed discussions with management over the last 24 hours and a decision was made by management to reduce the crew complement on the 4 class 747 by one.
Your OH&S representatives and FAAA procedures representatives have been working with the Service Development team to produce revised procedures and contingency briefings for crew and Onboard Managers.
The Service Development team following our discussions are also looking at initiatives around flexibilities in the service offering and potential changes that whilst still retaining the flavour of a premium airline, recognise the challenges of reduced crew.
There would be nobody including Cabin Crew Management more disappointed than myself about the need for this. But desperate times require appropriate measures and the overriding concern of the FAAA is the job security of our members.
Whilst this will be implemented from the beginning of the next roster, we are hopeful that when times improve we will be in a position to look a replacing the crewmember.
We do not expect this to be something achieved for quite some time, as I do not believe that we have yet seen the worst of the economic crisis.

Roster Publication Delay
As a result of an increasing surplus of crew, planned recruitment in London, Auckland and QCCA for June, has been put on hold indefinitely. Further some 50 crew, will have had LSL placed on their Lines after bids had closed. The Impact on rosters would have been devastating for those crew.
Following discussion with the FAAA arrangements have been put in place for these crew to bid around the assignment, and also re-enter their specific bids.
We thank the Company for doing this as it is a decent decision given it only affecting a small number of crew. As a result all rosters will not be published until mid next week.
Like everyone else, I like to get my roster as soon as possible, however by putting yourself in the position of the unfortunate 50 crew that have been subjected to a last minute leave burn, I hope that you will forgive us for delaying the roster build to allow them to have some roster control.
We are exploring a range of other options with the Company to increase flexibility, and build in further job security for our members. I ask for your patience and understanding as we explore and implement this and other necessary changes.
Crew can be totally reassured that your job security is our paramount concern and we are well placed given the flexibilities of the last EBA and our continuing meaningful dialogue with the Company to maintain it, as we move through very challenging times.
Written and authorised by Steven Reed – President International Division

[cart_elevator]

Well that's very democratic of the FAAA --> delay 3000 crews' rosters so 50 senior crew can avoid going to Joberg cos of unexpected Long Service Leave being assigned. It would have been devastating if they could not bid the 5 day Honolulus around their leave :hmm:

I thought a union was supposed to represent the best interest of the majority? And as for 'flexibility' ---> the seniors obviously dont need to be flexible.

Oh and I see there will be no reduction in crew numbers on the A380 due to the 'economic crisis'.

The A380 flights must magically be immune to the 'crisis' as they have not reduced crew on it :mad:

Thanks FAAA --> I really feel like I am getting my money's worth :yuk:

[Bla_Bla]

wonder what is gonna happen with that huge upper deck J class cabin on the A380

forward bookings in premium cabins are very low....
that upper deck will look like a ghost town
i guess they will have to come up with some fantastic deals and promos to attract the punters.....

[priapism]

naaaaaa- it will be full of sub load staff!

[A_B_P]

Considering the majority of crew on A380 cost less than 747 crew I guess there's not as much urgency to reduce.

Don't worry Cart Elevator I'm sure when they run out of ideas to cut crew costs in QAL world they'll get to QCCA.

As for "moneys worth" we all pay the same rate to the FAAA, yet some of us earn a lot less, I guess that's fair too is it? :ugh:

[twiggs]

Well that's very democratic of the FAAA --> delay 3000 crews' rosters so 50 senior crew can avoid going to Joberg cos of unexpected Long Service Leave being assigned. It would have been if they could not bid the 5 day Honolulus around their leave :hmm:

I thought a union was supposed to represent the best interest of the majority? And as for 'flexibility' ---> the seniors obviously dont need to be flexible.


I hardly think a delay of 2 days is such a big deal, and certainly not without precedent. (remember the actual day rosters are to be issued is Monday, even though they usually come out earlier)

[Winch-control]

Couldn't find a thread related to being able to express thanks to cabin crew on flights, so thought I'd start this; and I'm sure if the mods know of one it will get merged.
Flying for the first time with Qantas (domestic) yesterday I was very impressed with the level of service, attention to detail, and patience during a 2h 45min flt from Perth to Adelaide. All smiles, no grumps, a great team on board (oh I'm SLF).
Again today return journey (packed flight due to Virgin falling over) Excellent service, good humour, lots of smiles (in the face of hard work and biting of tongues I am sure!)
An excellent team on QF 599 Adelaide to Perth tonight, and I would just like to say THANKS for such an enjoyable flt, proffessional approach, and all round excellent service, and I for one appreciate that the service is not just the food and beverages, but more importantly the safety of us all.:D

[flitegirl]

please forward your thoughts at
Help - Contact Us - Other Qantas Contacts (http://www.qantas.com.au/needhelp/dyn/contacts/otherQantasContacts#jump1)

[Bla_Bla]

As for "moneys worth" we all pay the same rate to the FAAA, yet some of us earn a lot less, I guess that's fair too is it?


:ok:


I hardly think a delay of 2 days is such a big deal, and certainly not without precedent. (remember the actual day rosters are to be issued is Monday, even though they usually come out earlier)


:ok:

[USA77C]

I recently flew on Qantas and wanted to write a letter of praise for the FAs.

Does anyone know the following:

1. Do the FAs actually receive a copy of letters of praise written on their behalf?

2. Are FAs rewarded in any way when passengers write such letters of praise?

Thanks.

[twiggs]

Yes we do receive a copy of the letter.
It comes with a letter from our manager acknowledging the passenger's letter and thanking us.
The "reward" is that the letter is placed on our file.

[DEFCON4]

1.Senior crew were the majority of the 50....where does it say that?
At 10 years you have 90 days of LSL accumulated.Most if not all senior crew have already been subject to leave burn
2.Union fees and disposable income.
According to that logic, a loaf of bread should be cheaper for those on a lesser income

[A_B_P]

DEFCON4 I see your point re:cost of fees. I never actually said that QCCA should have cheaper fees. It would be nice though considering the basic wage of QCCA is seen in the government's eyes as low income. I'm surpirsed that any of us joined the FAAA in the first place. My point was towards the "value for money" and being "fair" issue. I guess if my wages were twice what they are I would think I was getting value for money.

I'm sick of people alluding to QCCA as not being touched by the economic issues of the company. We are only here on these conditions because of the economic downturn. We are cheaper, we work longer hours, and this makes us economically viable. :rolleyes:

[surfside6]

Domestos,
You are 110% correct.......my post removed....by me

[Domestos]

....lets not wage another QAL vs. QCCA vs. QD war again. We look like fools in the eyes of the rest of the world and I don't want our threads to be locked out and moved again. Lets try and be constructive and supportive....there's enough :mad: in the world already without adding to it.

[Winch-control]

Many thanks flitegirl, I have left my comments with Qantas, and hopefully they will get passed on.
I was kinda hoping other slf might leave their thoughts here too for all airlines, but I guess each airline also has its own area for pax to express their gratitude, and most probably go direct there....

[USA77C]

Thank you, twiggs, for the info. It's a shame that the FAs are not rewarded with more than the letter of appreciation being added to their files. At the very least, upon receiving a copy of the letter, I hope the FA's day will be brightened by knowing that her efforts above and beyond the call of duty were greatly appreciated.

[argusmoon]

One thread....three themes..not clever mod(s)

[Little_Red_Hat]

USA, if there is enough detail in the letter, and the manager receiving it feels so inclined, they can always nominate the crew member for an award under the QF employee program (Excel).

So if a crew member has done something specific that you think is worth a mention, include it in your letter. (E.g. crew member provide x assistance during a delay). Then the manager can use that letter as a nomination on your behalf. It has to be specific though, it can't just be 'I have had so-and-so on three of my flights and they have been lovely' kind of thing...

Not sure if it happens often that managers bother but I do know it has happened once or twice! :)

Hope this helps!

(I agree this thread is getting confusing!)

[USA77C]

Thank you for the excellent advice. The international FA prepared a personalized, handwritten list of things for me to see and do in Sydney during my free time on a recent business trip. I was able to complete about half of the list, and it made my trip to Sydney very enjoyable. I am looking forward to returning to Sydney and completing the list!

I will be sure to include all of that detail in my letter of appreciation for the FA. I hope her manager nominates her for the award under the Qantas employee recognition program you mentioned. Is there anything else I could do to help? As a frequent business traveler, I greatly appreciate when someone like this thoughtful FA goes above and beyond the call of duty to make a long trip especially memorable.

[capt.cynical]

:) Dig up "Lobster Bob" a MAN to be respected and feared. He was fooled by no one. :eek: :D

[argus.moon]

Neville Usher,Judy Cross,Pat Gregory, Angus Gillespie and Pally Nolan.
Come back please...we need you.

[Domestos]

The Black Widow and The Bulldog have created the most absurd Cabin Services department....with ridiculous titles such as : "Manager Customer Services Safety and Environment" and "Manager Service Development" and "Service Standards Manager" and "Customer Experience Delivery". What a laughing stock this is. Each manager has decided to create a title for themselves and in order to justify their existence, they each battle to have something published in CCN or memo...it can be anything immaterial or pathetic like "tortoise-shell hair clips" or "exploding bodum plungers" or "placement of oneworld badge". Each of the (female) managers battle with each other to see who can quote relevant CCOM references and who can come up with the best "I know its not standard but......"

[Bad Hat Harry]

They focus on this stuff because its what they are good at.
Actually running a creative engaging Cabin Services Dept. is way beyond them.
Clause 11s are designed to keep eveyone off balance.Instead it just disengages everyone.Adults dont require this type of punishment.Its the mindless discipline that old fashioned teachers use to mete out to five year olds.It didnt work then either.
Can you imagine what management meetings are like?
A botox tupperware party.

[Shazz-zaam]

Domestos and Bad Hat Harry I totally agree with you.
Unfortunately the toxin that these people have spread has paralysed what was once one of the best cabin crew services of the world .
Sadly it is only a shadow of it's former self and in my humble opinion almost in terminal decline.
I don't know if there is any individual who can resusitate,restore,inspire and re-engage the hearts and minds of the crew.
Through the grapevine the feedback about the Centre of Excellence has been overall negative. Those of us that have been around long enough to have gone through and been indocrinated with similar experiences will realise just how out of touch Management is and how this $10,000,000
has been wasted. It could have been better used by improving the hard product.
Makes you think that someones son or nephew won the contract to renovate the old building, how else could you justify the expense of this white elephant?
I seem to recall that the managers were told by Alan Joyce that they would have to spend 1 day a month working along side by side with their colleagues at the coalface.
Has anyone from any department seen any of the team managers out there yet?
Perhaps they are creating a new position, I know how about "Manager responsible for placing and rostering Cabin Crew Team Managers at front line positions".
There was someone who was listing down the names and title of everyone who was published in the Cabin Crew News, those who made it on his list had to have the title of Manager with a ridiculous title.
He stopped counting when he reached 40.
The Black Widow has had her day,get rid of her and her band of cronies. She should have gone with Dixon.

[flapsforty]

Ok guys, lets try again.

Without resorting to calling people names, without resorting to disparaging people´s sexual orientation and without resorting to agism and sexism

It is possible.
See if you can manage or this thread will go the way most Qantas threads do.

[cokecropduster]

Centre of Excellence...

The only reason that we have this is so that the company is seen to be complying with government training rules. Every company has to invest a certain amount each year, on each person, for training. I think, 2% of your salary must be spent.

[captainrats]

Unfortunately agism and sexism are part of the problem at Qantas Cabin Services.
AW is reknowned for witholding information from LG.Seems there is, shall we say, a personality clash.
Both of these people have surrounded themselves with compliant incompetents.This situation is a remnant from the Dixon days and needs to be sorted and quickly.
The rumours persist that LG has gone and AW is on her way back to Airports.
Bring in some young fresh competent people.A mix of male/female would be appropriate
Allowing input from CC would go a long to re engaging the workforce

[Pegasus747]

The biggest problem from my perspective is the way in which pertinent information about product and system failures is withheld from very senior management and in particular the board.

I am sure they are not interested in special meals failing to get to the customers but the nature of systemic failures that occur on a regular basis because the corridor crawlers are out of their depth with rank incompetence is disgraceful.

There are some in management that are hindered by the nincompoops below them who fail every reasonable task assigned to them and the protected species who seem to be able to do nothing wrong and have huge budgets to blow on lunches to launch the new napkin etc

[mrpaxing]

the union--you peggy doing about it??????????:eek::oh:

[A_B_P]

At my "Exceptional" day the first selected component never showed up. Of course we didn't find this out until the other subjects had started so it was too late to join in something else.

In all my years of flying I have never been late or missed a sign-on, it's just not done. Would it have been too hard for the instructor to call earlier so that we could have joined another group. I enjoyed the extra 30 minutes for morning tea but seriously what message are they trying to send out?

On the most part I enjoyed the day, but could have done without the usual "mind mapping" and "finding the real problem" garbage. Usually if my pax tell me they have a problem, what they are telling me IS the problem. I dont need to analyse it for an hour and get back to them to discuss what lead to the problem, I just fix it, that's my job! :ugh:

[Domestos]

At Virgin Atlantic....their policy is staff first before customers.....they believe if they look after their own people before anyone else, then automatically, the staff will look after the customers. Unfortunately for The Flying Rat...they've got it ALL WRONG.....they have spent millions on a Warehouse of Excellence that focuses on looking after customers....fullstop....and have spent nothing on engaging the loyalties of its own people. No amount of eXceptional training will change our disloyalty to the company....do you really think you will squeeze out excellence from your people after you've already beat them with a stick and treated them like 5 year olds?????

Nah...you can keep your eXceptional day....I'd rather do something more productive and take the day off work to pick the lint out of my belly button. Until the company pays me an 'eXceptional allowance or DTA' (tax free), I'm only gonna do what the company has paid me to do...push carts, serve meals, arm doors....nothing more, nothing less. If you want more out of me....then PAY ME....otherwise, shut up with your eXceptional day and don't waste both our times.....

[jungle juice]

There would be nobody including Cabin Crew Management more disappointed than myself about the need for this. ....
Whilst this will be implemented from the beginning of the next roster, we are hopeful that when times improve we will be in a position to look a replacing the crewmember.
Firstly,I think it's interesting that someone in the union is speaking on behalf of the management.

Secondly,I think the wish or statement that the crew member will be replaced once this down turn is over is optimistic to say the least.You might also notice the phrase "We will be in a position to replacing the crew member"
Who is taking that person off the complement,the union or the company and ergo who will be replacing them?
The last time a crew member was taken away they were never replaced even with the record profits achieved.Again the person that suffers is the customer.
Here is a chance to gain market share and differentiate ourselves from other airlines and we are doing the same as everyone else,cutting back.
It's good in these times to see a sense of humour still exists.
originally posted by twiggs
The "reward" is that the letter is placed on our file.
Absolutely hysterical twiggs,

[AlphaLord]

An open letter from Qantas Unions to the Qantas board in one of the broadsheets may have some impact.
The letter should detail the problems at QF from an employee perspective.
In the past information and concerns have not made their way to the board.
Circumvent middle management

[priapism]

Guys , just to satisfy a hunch- is the black widow ex ansett???

[Domestos]

I think she is ex AN who became NZ and now QF

[surfside6]

Air NZ to AN to QF...her rise our downfall.
She is Kiwi

[priapism]

Thanks, I had an inkling it might have been the person I thought it was. I feel sorry for you - I just don't get how incompetence can lead to such a career path.

This type of person is only good for bluffing their way through a target selection style interview- largely as they used to sit on the ask questions side of the table.

As managers they are useless as ashtrays on motorbikes except for having the uncanny ability to avoid getting the sack- usually achieved by white anting someone else.

Cheers, I'm off to work.

[mrpaxing]

AlphaLord says:"

Qantas Unions United

An open letter from Qantas Unions to the Qantas board in one of the broadsheets may have some impact.

resident union guys take note!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[L5Brassco]

LG has just killed the blackberry project.

Didn't even make it to "main release"

[roamingwolf]

Yes we do receive a copy of the letter.
It comes with a letter from our manager acknowledging the passenger's letter and thanking us.
The "reward" is that the letter is placed on our file.
Twiggs,heres an idea that you can float around the office.
Your idea of a reward made me think about how the airline is run.If the office thinks a letter is a good reward then how about when managers in the office do a good job they get a letter in their file instead of a cash bonus.

[bulstrode]

The Black Widow is no longer on the Corporate Website and no longer on the CC website.
Perhaps the canning of the "prune" was a last parting gift as she exited the front door never to return?

[mrpaxing]

it looks like the blackberry project has been put on hold.someone knows any details???:ok:

[Domestos]

Qantas entered into a contract with Telstra to provide data and communications services. The company wants to break the contract because Telstra are not providing services as per agreement...hence the Blackberrys are being halted as they are provided by Telstra.

[prunezeuss]

Why do management continue with spin?If something is not working admit it and fix it.
Two weeks ago we were told that the raspberry was an outstanding success.
To anyone who uses it it was an obvious failure.
Telling the truth always wins respect.
The first rule of customer service...always admit to a service failure.
Second rule...fix it.

[jungle juice]

Two weeks ago we were told that the raspberry was an outstanding success.
It might have been that it satisfied the main criteria of being the cheapest one they could get or with the biggest discount .
In the end,the cost can only get you so far if it doesn't do the job.

[blackguard]

Two more incompetent companies in league with each other is unimaginable.

[outandabout]

I have recently have the opportunity to travel on Qantas both domestic and international. I can only say that I experienced exceptional service. I think it is about time that cabin crew managers and other mangers go out, get on board and work a sector or two. See what your crew have to do, get a hands on experience, crew are dealing with what 300 + pax on an aircraft . Go managers get on board, put the uniform on and see what it is all about, you never know sitting in your office!!!

[surfside6]

Interesting to note the number of CC with 20 years plus seniority who have had JNB appear ontheir rosters for BP 263.
All this does is increase the amount of sick leave.
Oh Well.....Mobile phones are cheap there

[prunezeuss]

Its all down to the whim of the scheduling clerk.Whether or not they are having a bad day;how much training they have had;maybe they just dont like your tone of voice.
They do have favourites who get what they want.The system is only as good as the people administering it.If the system worked the way it was supposed to and not tinkered with sick leave would be reduced enormously

[somewhereat1l]

Isn't open time awarded in reverse seniority?

[DEFCON4]

Open Time is a bit of a wishing well.There are a number of factors determining who gets what.
Low liners and those who are pay protected are first cab off the rank.Bidding up in hours helps.Bidding with no trade also helps.Overprojection of hours is also considered. Availability of reserve line holders is another factor.Seniority then kicks in.
Basically its a lottery with the O/T officer deciding who is the lucky winner

[twiggs]

But can someone,anyone explain why the trip was not awarded to me?

Defcon4 has explained it well, but why don't you go and ask the scheduler that told you that:

I am the only one bidding.
The original pattern holder does not clear themselves.
The pattern vacancy becomes an actual vacany.
I am still the only one bidding.
The bloody pattern is given to someone 1500 slots junior to me.
because not everything is as it seems and the only way you could know that anything you just stated is fact, is if a scheduler told you.

By the way Argusmoon, why do you also have a username Argus.moon, or is one of you an imposter?

[obira]

That's the problem with a system where things aren't transparent or accountable: it is open to manipulation or at least the perception that manipulation is occurring.

Have you tried calling ops to see under which subclause of EBA8 Clause 33.6 this person got the trip? It's interesting to look at this clause anyway, for example does everyone know that a trip from normal closure of open time MUST be assigned to an available RLH in category (33.6.7) and then an available RLH out of category (33.6.8) before it can be assigned to a pay-protected flight attendant (33.6.9)?

If you don't question ops then, unless the FAAA is auditing each open time allocation, there is only the individual's integrity to make them stick to the rules.

Clause 33.11 says that nothing in the clause precludes the correction of an error by the company.

Errors can occur from time to time. If they have made an error in allocation they can correct it.

obira

[surfside6]

Obira you raise some interesting points.
Having often tried to bid in O/T as a RLH I would have more chance of getting a date with Elle Mcpherson than getting awarded a trip that I have bid for.
Challenging a scheduling clerk usually gets a terse response.They tend to think that they are a law unto themselves.
Save aggrivation and apply a PRO usually solves all problems.The system actually encourages PROs.It it was more transparent sick leave would go down.OPs havent figured that out yet.No one has a user manual regarding this 20 year old system.Very few have ever been trained in its use.There are a couple of crew who were Work Systems Advisors(or something like that)who are only too happy to help out.One of them certainly made a difference to my bidding .
Its still a mystery to many.The company likes to keep it that way

[jungle juice]

A number of years ago and I was near the base late at night and thought I'd see if I had jagged a trip out of open time.
Just as I got to the counter there was another crew person handing over a nice bottle of Walking Johnny straight out of a duty free bag.You might have guessed it and that's right I didn't get the trip so I inquired as to whether a bottle of duty free helped in any way with the success of your bid.
There was no verbal response just a look of intense displeasure.

We all know there are friends of friends and that will never stop but if I'm right the tech crew can ask and have to be told who got the trip in open time and why.

If there is a transparency in the way something works then there are no arguments but something tells me that this will never happen here.
Posted by twiggsbecause not everything is as it seems and the only way you could know that anything you just stated is fact, is if a scheduler told you.well twiggs you said it but strange as it may seem some of us do know people in the office and have been told the story but it doesn't help you to know the truth.
The people in the office do not like any of us knowing what really happens and that will never change.
By the way Argusmoon, why do you also have a username Argus.moon, or is one of you an imposter?
Funny that you should be asking that question twiggs and what does it have to do with the open time bidding?.
Is someone in the office upset that someone is questioning them?

[funbags]

junglejuice.

You are quite correct.

In long haul, there is a strict open time allocation procedure which must be followed for the award of a trip (a strict order of allocation).

This must be adhered to. You can ring up and ask for reasons why you weren't awarded the trip. The answer will have everything to do with your priority in the allocation process. For example, pattern protection having priority over a trade, which has priority over a reserve line holder etc. It is all now very transparent.

[jungle juice]

Posted by funbagsIn long haul, there is a strict open time allocation procedure which must be followed for the award of a trip (a strict order of allocation).

This must be adhered to. You can ring up and ask for reasons why you weren't awarded the trip.
Can someone from our union who posts here regularly explain why this is the case with the pilots but not the cabin crew?
It's the same airline and if the pilots can have this why can't we?
You would think that if this was the case then the level of sick leave would drop significantly and you would also think that the company would want this.
Why do I also get the feeling that there will be a wall of silence around this topic from the union and company reps who post here?

[ditzyboy]

I am having trouble with the following item in TWTW...

INTERIM ARRANGEMENTS - QANTAS DOMESTIC IN THE ROSTER BUILD
The Association has received a number of calls/emails from members (various bases) regarding the agreed interim arrangements to include Qantas Domestic flight attendants in the roster build.

Quite apart from the benefits as outlined previously, it was in our judgement crucial to ensure flying remained in Short Haul.

Please be assured that the measures are interim and at this stage for both February and March Qantas Domestic (QD) flight attendants were assigned “Reserve” and as such did not impact on the pick up in Flexible Work Arrangements. In fact having QD numbers in the build would have assisted in members being able to release.

While we appreciate these are difficult times not only within the industry but the community at large, this interim arrangement will in the short and long term prove to be extremely beneficial for current Short Haul members. In fact it should be noted that if we had been able to convince Qantas to recruit into the Short Haul division these flight attendants would have been in the build permanently.

So what does the above mean?! It is better that these people are recruited into QD so that there is less juniors under me in FWA? What an incredibly short sighted comment!

How will giving rosters to QD pre-FWA up to November help us at all?! :confused:

[Pegasus747]

the company are required to publish the open time when closed and allocated. if you dont get something you are entitled to enquire of the open time officer why it was allocated to someone else.
if you are not satisfied and believe that the EBA has been breached you can call the union as many do.

They can speak to the Duty Manager and ask them to review the decision of the OT officer. If there is any monkey business it will become obvious.

If anyone has proof of bribery rather than anecdotal clap trap i suggest a stat dec taken to the FAAA and then it will go directly to qantas security for investigation. Just make sure you have your facts straight and some proof. Its slanderous to make false or speculatory accusations and the OT officer will have recourse if the individual is just p'ssed off and letting out some frustration.

Ot officers are required to find the best fit for OT within the constraints of the EBA, anyone can make mistakes and if you think one has been made get in quick and have the decision audited.

THere is a clause in the EBA that says an error can be corrected in relation to the allocation of open time...if you have your proof use it

[blade.runner]

Many crew are concerned about retribution when making a complaint to/or about ops.The response when questioning a decision certainly make you think twice about doing it again.
As a crew member it is mostly easier to go sick rather than suffer the confrontation.Clause 11s being administered because of a misunderstanding with a scheduling clerk are also a consideration.
The clauses and sub paragraphs relating to many of our work rules can be quite complex.
Call Ops in the morning and you get one interpretation.Call in the evening and you get another.
Ops are undermanned and overworked like most Qantas departments.Fielding questions from CC can be time consuming and no doubt often frustrating.
Perhaps a working committee formed by the FAAA and OPs could go some way to alleviating and clarifying misconceptions and ultimately frustrations on both sides.
In the meantime odd rostering results lead many to believe that the system is being manipulated."D" days for those in the top 10% of a category indicate excess work over available manpower.These so called demand days can make a mess of a roster and certainly add to sick leave.

[jungle juice]

If anyone has proof of bribery rather than anecdotal clap trap
Top idea Pegasus,so what are you telling us to do,is to take a video camera into the building every time we go in or have a hidden microphone so we can record any conversation?
I think you've been watching too much TV.
Are you seriously suggesting If I had questioned the propriety of the act I had witnessed I would have received an honest and truthful answer.All I would have got would be a nice little chat with my manager and the worst rosters of my career for the next 12 months at least not to mention a reserve line from hell if not the threat of a clause 11 for false allegations.The office as everyone knows never admits anything wrong.
In fact describing my post as anecdotal clap trap shows what sort of response I would get.

By the way,you did not answer the question as why the pilots get an answer for why they did not get a trip and who got it and why when all we get is the run around.

[DEFCON4]

Most of us hate QCC and those that dwell in it.A very toxic place where you need to keep your voice down and head down.No laughing and no smiling allowed.Definitley no joke telling in case you offend someones delicate sensibilities.
Get on the bus and breathe a sigh of relief.You still need to check out the crew and determine who you can trust.Find the dobbers and those that have a promotion agenda and are looking to use colleagues as a springboard.
Do you job,apologize for service failures, (of which there are many)and cop the abuse.A normal day at the office.
The aircraft environment can still be fun with the right crew.At least you are out of earshot of the enemy in QCC.
As they say..once the front door closes you can be yourself(well almost)

[Pegasus747]

i dont know how many times you need to be told there is no difference between the info that pilots get and flight attendants except that flight attendants are afraid to ask or are easily fobbed off

I always get an explanation if i want it and so to many crew. i also know that you are entitled to ask the question of the OT officer.

If you are met with a fob off then ring the FAAA and ask the enquiries officer to ring the duty manager.

as far as the so called bribes are concerned , i have been hearing it for 25 years and everyone has a view on it. if you have the proof you need to do something about it.

If you expect someone else to do it for you and make accusations that you are not prepared to make yourself then forget it

I have never accused anyone of anything in 25 years as i cant prove jack sh*t. despite my personal views and theories unless there is some compelling evidence you cant do anything about it. And neither can the pilots. Given that the pilots sick leave is the lowest in the company, the open time takes about 30 minutes to do

the flight attendants open time takes most of a day sometimes its much more complicated with different EBA requirements.

[Bad Hat Harry]

Managers threatening and intimidating
Dobbing
A paper and information blizzard
Ongoing service failures
Poorly resourced
Soon to be further under manned
A hostile Ops lacking in transparency
Training courses that are now done at home
Company training websites that dont work
A roster system that doesnt deliver
Ongoing and unecessary BPRs
Dangerous cart tops
Plasitc tubs/standard units that slice fingers
Constant pressure to deliver a level of service that is unachievable
Lip service from a faceless management
An economic environment that forces you to stay

[TightSlot]

Gosh - QF crew not happy? Well I never!

Guys - can we try and lift this a little, above the level of lists of things that make you cross. You've all been behaving really well recently, and we appreciate your efforts. Thanks.

Back to you...


:ok:

[Machinegun Fellatio]

There are around 15/20 regular posters in Qantas CC forums.They are not indicative or representative of the broader Qantas CC community.
Those who read and moderate these posts should bear that in mind.

[Jackbr]

quick question...hope this is the right spot to ask

What is QF's policy on FA's posture during take off/landing

I know some airlines recquire them to sit in a "normal brace" position-hands beneath thigs or folded across lap, back straight, feet parallel to knees...

[ditzyboy]

'Relaxed Brace position' is the position we are instructed to adopt.

[Jackbr]

for an FA, what is the relaxed brace position?

[jungle juice]

There are around 15/20 regular posters in Qantas CC forums.They are not indicative or representative of the broader Qantas CC community
Machine Gun,by your own post that includes yourself and pegasus etc.:oh:

Pegasus,You have to be kidding,the schedulers will of course tell you the real reason and it's 100% believable and crew have no reason to doubt the info at all.
if you have the proof you need to do something about it.
Pegasus,how exactly are we supposed to do that?

Your own post shows the type of response we would get from any allegations and unless we go in wired and have a hidden camera there is little we could do to prove anything.Pegasus,life is a little different to TV shows.

[A_B_P]

Jack Brownbill it depends which way you are facing, forward or aft.

Forward facing is lap belt and harness fastened, feet flat on floor, legs to 90 degree angle to floor, chin lowered towards chest, hands on top of knees.

Aft facing same as above except head is held up and rested back on headrest.

These are both relaxed positions if it was for an actual brace position then a more pronounced head position is required for both.

Out of interest why do you want to know?

[Jackbr]

i was curious as i always new FA's were supposed to sit in some form of brace position during take off/landing but on a recent United flight the FA just sat chatting away to the opposite passenger...

Just interested in finding out what exactly the normal FA take off/landing posture if with QF...

fairly odd question, i know

[Pegasus747]

the point that i am making is quite clear. I have been hearing the same clap trap about open time for the 20 years that we have had it. before that it was the best rosters went to the people that bribed the schedulers.

It may be that it actually goes on..true

But without proof there is NOTHING that you can do. If you make allegations against another employee from ANY department you have to have proof otherwise you are screwing yourself.

There is NOTHING that can be done that i can think of, other than asking for an explanation from the OT officer.

If you are pay protected and not trading and you have 50 hours pay protection and the trip gets awarded to someone who is trading then its a breach of the EBA and trading is second.

If it goes to someone on annual leave and its the last paris trip ( and this happened) and you call the FAAA the person will be removed from the pattern, it will be awarded to the PP flight attendant and someone in OPS has a lot of explaining to do.

There are some things that we can do as flight attendants and some things that we cant, just as its your word against a police officer if caught speeding or something else there are appeals processes. some of which you have a degree of success with and some you get screwed.

There has never been a perfect system of anything in my entire life in any field that i have ever been involved in or seen and ppl will complain of faults in the system or corruption and often there is just sadly nothing that can be done.

The FAAA has been monitoring this as have 000's of crew for decades and there has never been a perfect system no matter who is in management or in the Union.

If you are looking for perfection perhaps you need to join a buddhist temple

[jungle juice]

Pegasus,you certainly are an enigma.

Firstly,you describe the comments made about OT bidding as claptrap.

So I assume you don't give any credence to them and so believe them or you wouldn't describe them as absurd and nonsensical.

Then you try to sound reasonable by saying that they may actually be true.

So which way is it pegasus,you can't have it both ways.

Peagasus,why was the initial system of open time bidding where we could see who else was bidding for a trip changed for the current hidden one Pegasus?
What are they trying to hide?
If you are looking for perfection perhaps you need to join a buddhist temple
No Pegasus,all we want a system that is conspicuous by it's clarity.In other words one in which we can see what's going on and not told to join a Buddhist temple just because we want the truth.

[Pegasus747]

the privacy laws changed a number of years ago and it made the publication of who was bidding for trips etc was no longer possible.

Its also the reason that names were removed from seniority lists. Crew complained that they didnt want other crew to know what they were doing.

Personally i think of lot of the so called "corruption" in ops is grossly exagerated. i dont believe its impossibe for people to be favoured over others i just personally dont see any real evidence of it

[obira]

If privacy is the concern then there is no need to publish personally identifying information. They could publish a de-identified list saying Person A is bidding against X hours pay protection, Person B is a Reserve Line Holder etc etc in their ranked order and then the winning bidder has a tick against them at the close of that day's open time allocation. When any discretion is involved in the decision a reason must also be published. All open and above board. No-one identified except for publication of the winner on the crew list. Crew members must already opt in to have their names published on crew lists anyway, why couldn't this be done for open time bidding?

At the moment it's like a card game where everyone knows the value of their own hand, the dealer (ops) collects all the cards and then announces who has the highest hand without anyone else getting to see them all. You can ask the dealer why you didn't win and all they'll say is 'someone else had a better hand.' You still can't actually see their cards, you just have the dealer's word for it.

If you're not satisfied you can call the union who will call the dealer's supervisor and ask them to check. The dealer knows how infrequently they get checked and knows that it is extremely unlikely anyone will ever find out if they give it to the wrong player. The union can't be told the players' details either because the union is not exempt from privacy laws.

Some players say they've seen others give gifts to the dealers or the dealers are friends/relations of other players.

Who would ever willingly place a bet at this casino?

obira

[jungle juice]

Who would ever willingly place a bet at this casino?
Only two kinds of people I can think of Obira.
The owner of the casino
Friends of the owner.

posted by PegasusTHere is a clause in the EBA that says an error can be corrected in relation to the allocation of open time...if you have your proof use it
I like this one because everyone know's that the chance of someone getting proof or seeing all the cards as obira put it are virtually zero.

[trolldolltrolldoll]

hi has anybody heard anything re divisional transfers short to longhaul? the list was updated 9 march, so maybe there will be some movement soon?

[Bla_Bla]

qantas divisional transfers soon?

i wouldn't get my hopes up

as of yesterday the company decided to reduce 1 crew on the 74's
( kangaroo and pacific a/c ), down from 16 to 15 crew

:mad: :ugh: :{

difficult times we were told and it also to deal with crew surplus...

if that is the case it would not make any sense bringing more FA's from sh to lh

[Bad Hat Harry]

Everyone gets to keep their job
If you dont like working on the jumbo...bid around it.
BTW is the Black Widow still employed?

[twiggs]

..difficult times we were told and it also to deal with crew surplus...

Reducing crew on an aircraft creates an even greater surplus.
It is only being done because of lower than normal forward bookings.
On flights that are full, an extra crew member will be added on a case by case basis.
There is some good news, no more bar services in economy!

[Pegasus747]

Part time at 50% is available on demand for all ranks all bases as a result of the EBA. 75% rosters are also on offer in all bases including BNE and MEL from next BP.

those crew that dont have LSL plans in place will also be given LSL. Most of the crew that came over from SH will soon be getting their LSL awarded to them as many have months in place and most dont have leave burn plans like the majority of LH crew.

Some crew have suggested that all crew take a reduced divisor however i dont believe that its a suggestion that would be supported by the majority. And it doesnt appear that its necessary at this stage.

I think that the most important thing is that we do what's necessary to reduce the risk of compulsory redundancy. Its last on first off, and despite some of the callousness expressed here from time to time i dont believe any of us want to see the new kids lose their jobs .

I have a lot of faith in the vast majority of crew that they will pull out all stops to work together to avoid CR.

I think middle management have far more to fear with the downturn than LH cabin crew. My experience is that whenever there is a downturn its middle management that tend to have less job security.

CR is something we have not known among crew for 20 years and even then the ones that were put off were employed again within 6 months.

I would suggest that many people are pulling out all stops to avoid CR and if a temporary de-crewing achieves that i think as unpalatable as it is we have to work through it

thousands of people are actually losing their jobs and their livlihoods. We should consider ourselves fortunate that we have never faced that and may yet escape it if we are pragmatic

[RedTBar]

Pegasus,I don't think reducing the divisor would be a problem with the majority of crew as long as the union publishes these ideas and tells everyone the pro's and cons and not just the points the union likes us to see.

After tax, the take home pay difference would be very little and with the divisor spread over 56 days.I think most crew would see the benefit and if it stops the company from reducing the crew complement then it's far better.Like I said before once the company has taken away the crew member it will almost take an act of God to get them to bring them back.Did the union suggest this or anything else as an alternative to reducing the crew?

I don't care what really happens with management,all I care about is the impact on crew and let's face it,management don't stand up for us when we get conditions reduced.

[flyergirl]

Interestingly, all my upcoming flights still have 16 crew on them...will they take a crew member off before the flight?? The premium loads are, some ok, some bad, some full....?

[flitegirl]

some of mine have been changed from 16 to 15 but others have stayed with 16

[Bla_Bla]

some of mine have been changed from 16 to 15 but others have stayed with 16

how will they determine 16 or 15 ?
we all know that things happen/change at the drop of a hat

its gonna be a nightmare

anyone knows anything official to clarify that ?

have not found anything

[prunezeuss]

I have made two posts.
Both deleted.
Why?
If I am to learn form my mistakes I need to know what the mistakes are.

[A_B_P]

If the pattern is already allocated as 16 crew complement will they replace a crew member if one goes sick or leave it at 15?

[flitegirl]

Bla Bla and A B P - both good points to bring up. I guess we will see as we get further through the roster. I note now all my pattern codes bar one have changed

"Creation Reason: adjust crew comp. 1cfa removed from pttn" is now stated on all of these patterns

[Shazz-zaam]

Just wondering about the actual cost saving.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Since the crewing level has been reduced by one and the rosters are already out, the dropped crew member would therefore be pay protected so regardless they would still have to be paid for the trip that was dropped.
Also,since operations have already got crew allocated on reserve, there is going to be excess crew available, so chances of crew getting a trip on pay protection is going to be less or close to nil.
Besides hotel allowances,since accomodation is already paid for via contracts, the pay protected crew will still be paid PAY PROTECTION.
Any cost savings will not occur until the NEXT bid period.
So why bother taking a crew member off now as there is no cost benefit.
It should start at the next bid period, not now.
Can anyone else see the logic, or is management in panic mode?

[jungle juice]

Shazz-zaam,The company does tend to act on impulse and then change their minds a few hours later.However,in this case I think they have been very clever.
As TBar said once we have given up the crew member a precedent has been made and they will do it again and again whenever they like."Sorry crew,We know we have made a huge profit but there is the usual slow down in forward bookings after Christmas so we will be reducing the crew by one on selected flights.
They have never replaced the crew they took off last time and given half a chance will keep on doing this latest trick to reduce the crew number.

Did the union explore all possibilities before agreeing to reduce the crew number or did they blink first in the latest game of chicken.

Also what happens if the first sector out of Sydney is light and continues to be for the next one as well but the return flights are full as the proverbial public school.Will they pax a crew member up to Singapore or LAX to make up the numbers?

I think agreeing to a lowering of the divisor during this economic mess would have been a better option but we all know the company has more far reaching objectives.

[obira]

26.6.1 All flying lines must be constructed in the range from the Company minimum hours to the Company maximum hours as applicable to the nominated divisor.The company does not do this though. It constructs rosters in the range from the divisor to the Company maximum hours which is only half the range stipulated above. By making us bid to the divisor they have changed the range. You could argue that forcing us to bid for more hours than the EBA says creates a completely unnecessary surplus and this practice should be abandoned. Surely this is a reasonable measure which must be taken before more drastic changes.

obira

[Bla_Bla]

Part time at 50% is available on demand for all ranks all bases as a result of the EBA. 75% rosters are also on offer in all bases including BNE and MEL from next BP.

is that available to QCCA ? or only employees under part 1 ?

[flyergirl]

part 1 only, who are not on the A380.

[ditch handle]

Can anyone deny or confirm the rumour that only Australian based crew are operating this aircraft type, one down?

[flyergirl]

no not true. To clarify (and these are not my words), if the loads are 95% or more in the premium classes then the 16th crew member will be added. BUT this is not written anywhere....interesting....nothing to do with oz based or not.

[twiggs]

Can anyone deny or confirm the rumour that only Australian based crew are operating this aircraft type, one down?

I reckon this rumour could be true, but we will have to wait and see and count how many London based crew are on each 744 flight and whether there are any done out of London with 15.
There was a rumour that when we previously had 15 before premium economy was introduced, that Melbourne base always operated with 16.
Any Melbourne basers care to confirm or deny that one?

[indamiddle]

QF9/10 MEL/SIN/MEL. think it started early last year, was due to 'service delivery issues'. i have no idea what it/they was/were. don't know if crew numbers on these sectors will be changed.

[lowerlobe]

I reckon this rumour could be true
Well...If it is true ,it's very sad that the company would think of money before service....

In that regard I would be surprised if the company did it...but then again ....Nah we all know who we're talking about here.

Or is it that Twiggs is developing a sense of humour and irony with her statement?

[Bla_Bla]

my understanding is that is happening across the board, in all bases. having said that i would not be surprised if that is not the case.....

AJ is going to cut costs everywhere he can to fulfill his promise to shareholders of making AUD $ 500 million profit this financial year.
QF has made 280 million in the first half and since its his first year in the job he will make any effort necessary to achieve that ( 220 million for the second half )
ie: theres a trial in syd domestic of no more crew on reserve at the airport. sitting around doing nothing.. anyone hear anything ???
only home reserve ???


if the loads are 95% or more in the premium classes then the 16th crew member will be add


how can that be possible if you have an outbound light load and a full inbound flight ? where will they get that xtra crew member ?\
its going to be a logistic nightmare, and as we all know when comes to things like that QF isnt the best example. ie: the raspberry fiasco . oopsie !

if anyone here that has already operated with 15 crew give us an insite as to how it was ?

[ditzyboy]

theres a trial in syd domestic of no more crew on reserve at the airport. sitting around doing nothing.. anyone hear anything ???
only home reserve ???

There will be no more afternoon airport reserve coverage. All very well and good - but what happens when 3-4 767s go U/S at 1930, as can happen? Whilst I can see that Qantas does not like to pay for Airport Reserves to drink coffee and watch evening television. Is that not part and parcel of running an airline - planning and allowing for all contingencies?

April Rosters
Where is everyone (well, SH full-time everyone) sitting at with rostered hours for April? I was rostered 121, yet people above and below me were rostered to only 107. Does that sound right? 14 hours difference seems excessive when getting paid the same amount.

[twiggs]

I'm still trying to figure out why they need 8 crew for 72 J/C on the upper deck of the A380.
Surely they could knock that down to 6 and help to solve the shortage of crew on that aircraft as well as contributing to cost saving at the same time.

[ditch handle]

It's an open secret that there are problems with the service in J/C on this aircraft. Removing a crew member would just cause more problems.

Many of these problems would simply disappear if those working on the aircraft had more in the way of experience. Both life and airline.

Those responsible for the ideological decision making at QF's cabin crew department will [hopefully] be in for some surprises this week. :{

For the sake of the airline they really do need to go........

[jungle juice]

Originally posted by twiggsSurely they could knock that down to 6 and help to solve the shortage of crew on that aircraft as well as contributing to cost saving at the same time.
Why does it not surprise me that you would suggest that twiggs?
As ditch handle mentioned there are more problems with meal service on the A-380 than you can poke a stick at and someone here is suggesting to reduce the number of crew.From what I hear they could do with more crew to try and get the thing working but they would just get in each others way.
ditch handle is right also that if the crew had more experience and the company did not want to go for just the young pretty ones then there would be fewer problems to deal with.
Why not relax the conditions that classic crew (non QCCA) have to agree to before they transfer over.

[twiggs]

It's an open secret that there are problems with the service in J/C on this aircraft. Removing a crew member would just cause more problems.

The problems occur with a full load, maybe not dissimilar to the Melbourne base QF9 and 10 problems.
I think they could cope if loads are down to 3/4 or less.

[twiggs]

Ah, thats the answer. Remove a quarter of the seats on the upper deck and no more service difficulties.

I'm sorry that this is so hard to get your head around, but I am trying to make the point of reduced crew on the A380, in line with the 744 4 class, if projected loads are equally as low.

[prunezeuss]

Around Wednesday or Thursday there will an announcement made regarding the removal of around 100 senior Qantas execs.Among the names will be Grant,Taranto and Webster.
Joyce has taken the broom to the management workforce and it will hopefully generate improvements in morale and efficiency.

[TightSlot]

This seems a suitable time to close this thread and ask you all to discuss the upcoming announcement in the D & G Forums please.