cranfield to east midlands IR

[volunteerpilot]

hi guys and gals

I need to renew my long expired IR (would like to be able to fly in all types of Wx) and will be doing test soon with CAA:sad:. Anyone flown this route recently?

Any gotchas, common comms frequencies used? Are radar service helpful on the way and back?

Would you recommend any particular radar services as a part of the route seems to be in the uncontrolled airspace?

[dwshimoda]

VP,

VP,

It's 18 months since I last did this route, but I still have my IFR plog with routes, frequencies, nav aids, etc. If you want it, you are welcome to it all, just drop me a PM.

My memory of this route is a bit faded, so if anyone else can correct my info, please do, but otherwise as I remember it:

The biggest "gotcha" on this route was the rway in use at EGNX changing during your planning / in-flight, (happened to me on my first IR test) and all the assosciated hassle of changing the plan & route. (Different NDB's, etc)

After leaving Cranfield it was straight to London for entry to the airways, a brief spell with Manchester, then EGNX. On the return, they are quite quick to get rid of you, but if I remember rightly you were within range of EGTC,and could go for a RIS (Don't forget it all changes after 12th of this month) before returning for a procedural approach.

I seem to remember they also kept me quite high quite late, so you need to think about your descent planning well in advance.

Good luck with it - of all the routes from EGTC when I did it, this had the double edged sword of giving you more time in the air to think & plan, but also get things a bit wrong!

DW.

[coodem]

Very simple route. Expect to do the Stony Welin Departure out of cranfield. You will then get passed to london 130.925 for a clearance to enter controlled air space.(If London not busy, you might even be cleared before you even take off) You will most likely get cleared to FL90 ontrack to DTY, if not, you will get cleared to the east of DTY. If you don't get that, you are really having a bad day, and you would be expected to do the Wellin VOR/DME Hold

Once you passed DTY you will shortly after be passed onto EM, which will radar vector you from there. NO more VELAG/UPDUK. EM do not like procedural approaches, as far to busy.

Once heading back to Cranfield, they always try to hang onto you, as long as possible, but in the event they are busy, you may be terminated, in that case Cotesmore zone are very helpful

[jamie230985]

i flew the route 2 months back,

After leaving Cranfield it was straight to London for entry to the airways, a brief spell with Manchester, then EGNX. On the return, they are quite quick to get rid of you, but if I remember rightly you were within range of EGTC,and could go for a RIS (Don't forget it all changes after 12th of this month) before returning for a procedural approach

i never used manchester once on any of the 4 times i flew this route so i doubt you will either...

the main issues that can be encountered on this route are the departure (if sent around the 10d arc to wellin) your best route is dct velag so a little planning needed in the air. Also the alt used for return (FL55 usually) along with the rejoin at CIT (tricky direct close to the parallel boundry).

Send me a PM if you want full plogs for this route but i would recomend Cranfield - Birmingham as an easier route!!

Jamie

[dwshimoda]

i never used manchester once on any of the 4 times i flew this route so i doubt you will either...


Can only say how it was for me - but that was 21 months ago, so understand if things have changed - at least it should make it simpler!

Good luck - I think it is definitely one of the hardest aviation exams in the world - I don't envy anyone having to go through it.

[volunteerpilot]

thank you lads. i guess with east of daventy, you still fly the arc until you are at FL90 and then straight to DTY or dct Velag?

Also, i thought safety height for egtc is 710ft but someone told me its 800ft, not sure which one is correct now?

As general handling will probably be done after EM ILS (assuming EM will be ILS?) and EFATO, Cotesmore is probably good extra pair of eyes while i do stalls and unusual attitude recoveries with screens on.

[Mikehotel152]

On my IR skills test I got a direct DTY direct UPDUK and vectors from there to EMA. They never cleared me above FL70 even though I had filed for FL90. :rolleyes:

I also only spoke with London and then EMA. On the way back, the Examiner decided to take over the R/T for the general handling after asking me what me initial call to Cranfield would have been. When we finished the handling he made the initial call to Cranfield and I did the hold etc. Strange.

Surely you have the plates for EGTC? MDA for r/w 21 is 710' and circling is 800'

EMA could be NDB or ILS. I got to choose and went for ILS, though I think the NDB would have been easier, leaving a simple ILS back at EGTC.

[volunteerpilot]

you must have impressed him during the first part of the test/general handling and if they like your face, they will help :) and vice versa :ooh:.

[coodem]

710ft is the MDA for the NDB RW21, 800ft is the circle to land for RW03, as there is no approach for RW03

[Mikehotel152]

Er, I think not...he then partialled me on the NDB!? :{

[volunteerpilot]

ok i get it. so when you land at 03 you approach to rwy 21 and at 800 ft you go around for landing at 03.

MH152 soz to hear it, what happened on NDB app if you dont mind me asking ?

[coodem]

Mikehotel, the reason you may have partialled is because the examiners want to see you do a low level circuit to land of some sort.

If RW21 was in use, they would normally get you to go around at 800ft. then you would do a bad weather visual circuit at 800ft on the QNH.

If RW03 was in use you would get to 800ft/or your time, whichever later, then you would break hard left to position on crosswidnd and you would do a low level right hand circuit to land.

So I found that when I called 100ft to go, I was told to go around and continue for the visual low level circuit @ 800ft.

[volunteerpilot]

soz coodem, did examiner told you to go around or ATC?
my understanding is that you descend to 710ft and use timer on rw21, if rw03 is in use, you still still use the timer but descend to 800ft only and once visual with runway you circle to land?
someone please correct me if i am wrong?

[MMEMatty]

One "gotcha" that I had on my Initial IR to Cranfield was being given a Direct To the CIT (by a very well intentioned controller, i'm sure) whilst still outside its DOC, in which case you can't use it (even if you can recieve it and ident it) untill within range. 20 miles rings a bell, but would be worth checking. I personally had a DME / radial from DTY on my PLOG that put me 18 miles from the CIT, and used that as a fail safe.

Good Luck.

Matty

[Mikehotel152]

Coodem - Nope, I got a partial for a speed unstable approach, which was perfectly fair.

At the risk of digressing, it may be worth bearing in mind my experience when you guys go for the test: I had cancelled 2 previous tests due to weather. On my third test day the forecast wind at 2000 feet at Luton was 340/30. Assuming Cranfield experienced similar winds, this would have been 12 knots tailwind on the approach for runway 21. I was prepared for that and expected a circle to land at 800’. NB: The wind on the ground at Cranfield was a westerly, so 21 was in use.

As things panned out, I passed everything up to the point of commencing the NDB approach back at Cranfield. The actual wind at the time was 010/30 in the hold according to the G1000. This gave me at least 20 knots of tailwind on the final approach which is way outside the test limits, but once you're in the air and have successfully completed the rest of the flight you might as well give it a go!

However, I was tired after over an hour of the test and flustered because my hold was poor (but passable apparently) and shocked when I came round base turn I realised I was zooming along with that tailwind and…er…I decided too quickly and, er, forgot the gear. :ugh: Hence the speed unstable approach and my partial. :{

My advice, taken by my mate who passed the test immediately after my partial, is therefore to do the ILS rather than NDB back at Cranfield if the wind is from the north or north-east. The extra guidance provided by the glideslope and localiser makes the ILS a safer bet IMHO.

Two final points: Firstly, Cranfield tend to use 21 for take off and landing even with a small tailwind on the ground, so don't assume anything. Secondly, the Examiner has to see you do a single-engined go-around back at Cranfield, so even if you're doing a circle to land on 03, you'll probably go down to MDA/DA as appropriate, go around, climb to 800' and then circle to land. IIRC, that was my briefing, but I will stand corrected if anyone knows better.

Matty - I was allowed to use GPS until within 20 NM of CIT and the Examiner made me change it to DTY before I switched to CIT.

[MMEMatty]

Ah, I forget people test in the "flying tadpole"! Did you watch Sky 1 or ITV2 in the cruise on your test? :ok:

Out of curiosity, did you find the G1000 helped with the workload, or did it provide too much information? I've never used one, but have heard it can be easy to get swamped with the sheer volume of info provided. Also, do the examiners disable parts of it, or is it all "fair game"?

Matty

[Mikehotel152]

:p It is a ghastly looking aircraft isn't it!

However, I think the G1000 is a fabulous piece of kit. There is no such thing as giving too much information and it's all available for the test, giving you excellent situational awareness. I'd happily fly anywhere under IFR with those displays.

Yet I remain a fan of the traditional steam-driven cockpit. :ok:

[MMEMatty]

Oh and remember to be within 5deg of the Final Approach Track before calling "Base Turn Complete" and commencing descent... :embarassed:

You can't beat steam driven. True IFR with TV screens feels a little like cheating sometimes, it improves situational awareness so much!

[Mikehotel152]

IIRC you can call base turn complete before you're within 5 degrees, you just can't descend.

That's where I came unstuck. With that strong northerly wind I over shot the FAT and had to battle back to get within 5 degrees, all the time being shoved towards the CIT at 20 kts.

I already knew I had to achieve a very high ROD because of the tailwind anyway, but the extra time spent trying to get back within 5 degrees convinced me it simply wasn't possible to get down in time. In all that panic I didn't put down the gear because I was so far from the FAT. I know I should have done it anyway...

For some reason - perhaps I felt I was close enough to the FAT - I decided to descend. I went down like a Stuka dive-bomber and got to 1580 before the CIT. However, after the beacon I was still being blown south of the FAT and at that point, according to the Examiner, I didn't account for the drift, meaning I stayed south of track. When he lifted the blinds at Mapt I was well south but could have made a visual approach.

But then he pointed out that I might have forgotten something rather important - the gear! :uhoh::O Had I dropped the gear early I could have slowed down everything.

Oh well, I passed the re-test easily, so it's all good experience. :)

[volunteerpilot]

M152, did you not get the bell when you retarded the throttle? It should come on when gear isn't down and you pull the throttle back?

[madlandrover]

Chances are it was a single engine approach, so 1 throttle would've been right on the gear warning switch anyway - only a few examiners get annoyed enough by it to advance the throttle significantly beyond zero thrust to stop the noise.

[Mikehotel152]

I don't recall there being a bell on the DA42? :confused:

But yes, it was a single engined hold and NDB approach, so if there is normally a noise madlandrover's explanation might be correct.

[MMEMatty]

If its like the aircraft if fly now, or the Seminole i did the IR initial on, the horn will sound when the gear is up and one or both power levers are at or within a few degrees of flight idle. There is usually a horn cancel button to silence this, in the case of, say, a rapid descent.

Perhaps the Examiner pressed this?

IIRC on the seminole, the horn couldnt be cancelled with landing flaps down and gear up, but could with intermediate flap.

On a lighter note, as most of the descents i do now are at flight idle, it prompts many calls (as the horn starts blaring) "don't worry, i've got the horn..." :}