View Full Version : Why do all the threads end up in pissing contests?
nav attacking
1st Mar 2009, 20:02
Come on Guys (and girls if any even bother to look here). Pprune Mil Aircrew used to be a forum where we could all have a bitch and moan about things that were happening to us or even to divulge a few official secrets (by accident of course). But now it seems to be a forum where what starts off as a serious thread very quickly becomes a slagging off between Merlin and Nimrod, Muds v's Fighter Jocks, VC10s Tri and C130s. I don't post very often but I do keep an eye on things and it really has deteriorated rapidly - the poor old E3 guys can't get a word in edgeways now for fear of a severe slagging, possibly because of a lack of any real experience of operations or maybe they just can't be bothered any more.;) Please lets stop slagging each other off in such a public manner, we SHOULD ALL have a role in a fully balanced Military Force, even the Navy has a role in curent ops ... somewhere.
The fact of the matter is that the UK Government has sold us all down the river. We are punching way above our weight on the international stage and there are too many levels of management right across the services and even all of the public sector.
If MOD were a public company we would have gone to the wall years ago, that or had many major restructuring sessions to cull out the inverse pyramid of power that we have now. We need to take a leaf out of the Israeli Defence forces and look at their force structures. I bet they have far more front line Battle Tanks, Missile Systems, Ships, Aircraft etc etc compared to high level staffs and civil servants than any of the other World armed forces. Lets face it they are the ones who we should all be modelling ourselves on - politics aside.
The sad thing is that whilst we have the luxury of being able to banter away on such a back stabbing forum that this has now sunk to, another 4 UK troops have lost their lives this week due to a lack of sufficient decent equipment supporting them on the ground whether that be, SH, ISTAR, CAS, MEDIVAC assets, hardened vehicles or body armour. We all try our best with what we have left and that is what makes the British Armed Forces what they are.
Meanwhile the Defence Ministers sit in their Ivory Towers and congratulate themselves on saving another 5% off the future budget by delaying yet another project that the military needs.
WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT AND IT IS TIME WE STARTED TO SUPPORT EACH OTHER
One day you might actually need that E3! (60 miles across the Iranian Border with Migs all around)
soddim
1st Mar 2009, 20:11
Well expressed opinion of the reason why so many aircrew who used to post here and knew what they were talking about have long gone. This site is now largely populated by those who know nothing about the subject but nevertheless express themselves and their ignorance. It is also populated by many who are clearly disgruntled and looking for an outlet to vent their spleen.
Now the above should provide an ideal opening for the typical Prune slagging match and this thread is still so young!
AllTrimDoubt
1st Mar 2009, 22:01
even the Navy has a role in curent ops ... somewhere.
Spelling: current
:=
Chugalug2
1st Mar 2009, 22:39
nav attacking:
The sad thing is that whilst we have the luxury of being able to banter away on such a back stabbing forum that this has now sunk to, another 4 UK troops have lost their lives this week due to a lack of sufficient decent equipment supporting them on the ground whether that be, SH, ISTAR, CAS, MEDIVAC assets, hardened vehicles or body armour. We all try our best with what we have left and that is what makes the British Armed Forces what they are.
Then surely the answer is to do what PPRuNe does best, calling for such deficiencies to be put right! As you say they have cost lives and will cost even more, often with little or no enemy input. This forum in particular has the knowledge and experience required to campaign for the lack of UK military airworthiness provision to be addressed. Aircraft must be made fit for purpose, which the Hercules, Nimrod and Chinook threads have shown has been far from the case to date. An independent (of the MOD) Military Airworthiness Authority is the way to go IMHO. Can we have a grown up discussion about that, or is banter all that is on offer?
effortless
2nd Mar 2009, 08:02
Why do all the threads end up in pissing contests?
Because pilots never have to grow up and tend to hold a very simplistic view of the world. Okay men don't take too growing up in general but pilots, especially mil. are rather insulated from the everyday world.
Jumbo Driver
2nd Mar 2009, 08:07
It's the eternal ...
"Dad, when I grow up, I want to be a pilot."
"Look, son, you'll just have to choose - you can't do both ..."
JD
;)
PlasticCabDriver
2nd Mar 2009, 08:50
Why do all the threads end up in pissing contests?
No they don't. You don't know what you're talking about. Bl**dy E3 types.
This forum is an invaluable source of interest, information and rumour, for a whole host of different people. The problem is, with discreet IDs, you do not know who the poster is and, more importantly, what their 'angle' is.
If you post an issue about, say, the A400, the chances are that you will be savaged by someone very close to Airbus, but not declaring so. Post one about Harriers, and there will be an instant RAF/RN bun fight.
In the midst of all of this, throw in the odd journo dropping pebbles into the pond, seeing who will react, and feeding off the proceeds.
So pissing contests are part and parcel of PPrune.
I've been in bigger p*ssing contests than this.
racedo
2nd Mar 2009, 13:55
I've been in bigger p*ssing contests than this.
More important question is were you able to hold your own in that contest:mad:........er I mean win:p
Widger
2nd Mar 2009, 17:02
All trimmed out.............is that a waaahhh?
Charlie Luncher
2nd Mar 2009, 17:12
Why is it that Navs always complain when they are outwitted and outfoxed?:eek: It is not like it is that challenging:E.
Charlie sends
From the frontlines
Biggus
2nd Mar 2009, 18:19
"From the frontlines"........?????
I thought your lot had all gone home a while ago, and your main gripe was that you weren't getting A$10,000 a det any more?
Unfortunately the OP is spot on. This network has really bottomed out on quality over the last few years and the interesting and informative information becomes harder to find than OBL :*
Biggus
2nd Mar 2009, 18:59
One possible reason is that the general level of frustration, disappointment, even rage, is building up out there.
Amongst the UK military, the constant "make do with less" approach, even before the credit crunch, is wearing - let alone your 4th, 5th, 6th time out to somewhere hot and sandy. Then there is working with 30yr old plus aircraft, VC10, Tristar, Nimrod, C130K, lack of people, etc
Even amongst the non military UK population, frustration is mounting during the credit crunch, with bankers, MPs perks, supposed gold plated civil servant pensions, etc. The politics of envy is surfacing generally.
All in all not happy times for many.
Of course I might be wrong - I have been before, and apparently I am naive!
Strictly Jungly
3rd Mar 2009, 08:04
Biggus,
Everyone is naive when compared to the mighty stanketblacker!!! He is a font of great knowledge and wisdom and is surely wasted as a Jack Dusty!
You are correct, many are currently unhappy. I don't see it as a pi55ing contest merely robust inter-service rivalry! Long may it continue............why even Beagle's comments evoke reactions at times..........
extpwron
3rd Mar 2009, 08:37
Talking about pi55ing contests; how come the “Crabs” thread was locked down? I wanted to add some derogatory remarks about Fish Heads!
The Helpful Stacker
3rd Mar 2009, 09:21
Its nice to be appreciated SJ though don't lay it thick for me, keep some for yourself. I'm sure even you know a thing or two about something useful.
:ok:
As you quite rightly say though*, its not a p!ssing contest. Its a healthy dose of inter-service rivalry, something that has been going on for years and sees no sign of stopping.
Of course the internet is a fickle beast and what would in a bar or crewroom be immediately obvious as banter can come across as slightly more edged due to the relatively limited written format in which comments are made.
*(See, I told you you might know something useful.) :p
Tourist
3rd Mar 2009, 16:17
Life is a pissing contest.
Ask Darwin. He called it evolution, because pissing contest seemed a bit rude.
Modern civilisation does it's best to disguise it, but underneath it all, it's still there, and when nations get involved, its the military that does the pissing.
So essentially, the answer to your question "Why do all the threads end up in pissing contests?" is because this is a military forum, and we are the cock, metaphorically speaking........or not metaphorically in the case of the RAF.:ok:
Hope that clears it up.:)
soddim
3rd Mar 2009, 16:19
Sounds more like a cock-up than a pissing contest.
even the Navy has a role in curent ops ... somewhere.
The fact of the matter is that the UK Government has sold us all down the river.
WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT AND IT IS TIME WE STARTED TO SUPPORT EACH OTHER
Sounds like you've found a role for the Navy.....:ok:
Seriously, it's probably because everyone knows that what is written on here or any where else will not make a jot of difference to our political masters, the very people who 'demanded' a peace dividend and started the ongoing draw down of our Armed Forces at a time when they were going to be needed more than ever. They have no respect for the people they use to implement their 'ethical' policies world wide.
Read this thread and thought this was appropriate and needed an airing.
Argument sketch
Monty Python
A man walks into an office.
Man: Good morning, I'd like to have an argument, please.
Receptionist: Certainly, sir. Have you been here before?
Man: No, this is my first time.
Receptionist: I see, well we'll see who's free at the moment.
Mr. Bakely's free, but he's a little bit concilliatory. No. Try Mr. Barnhart, room 12.
Man: Thank you.
He enters room 12.
Angry man: WHADDAYOU WANT?
Man: Well, Well, I was told outside that...
Angry man: DON'T GIVE ME THAT, YOU SNOTTY-FACED HEAP OF PARROT DROPPINGS!
Man: What?
A: SHUT YOUR FESTERING GOB, YOU TIT! YOUR TYPE MAKES ME PUKE!
YOU VACUOUS STUFFY-NOSED MALODOROUS PERVERT!!!
M: Yes, but I came here for an argument!!
A: OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is abuse!
M: Oh! Oh I see!
A: Aha! No, you want room 12A, next door.
M: Oh...Sorry...
A: Not at all!
A: (under his breath) stupid git.
The man goes into room 12A. Another man is sitting behind a desk.
Man: Is this the right room for an argument?
Other Man:(pause) I've told you once.
Man: No you haven't!
Other Man: Yes I have.
M: When?
O: Just now.
M: No you didn't!
O: Yes I did!
M: You didn't!
O: I did!
M: You didn't!
O: I'm telling you, I did!
M: You didn't!
O: (breaking into the developing argument) Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?
M: Ah! (taking out his wallet and paying) Just the five minutes.
O: Just the five minutes. Thank you.
Anyway, I did.
M: You most certainly did not!
O: Now let's get one thing perfectly clear: I most definitely told you!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did! (very fast)
M: Oh no you didn't!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: No you DIDN'T!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: No you DIDN'T!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: No you DIDN'T!
O: Oh yes I did!
M: Oh look, this isn't an argument!
(pause)
O: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
(pause)
M: It's just contradiction!
O: No it isn't!
M: It IS!
O: It is NOT!
M: You just contradicted me!
O: No I didn't!
M: You DID!
O: No no no!
M: You did just then!
O: Nonsense!
M: (exasperated) Oh, this is futile!!
(pause)
O: No it isn't!
M: Yes it is!
(pause)
I came here for a good argument!
O: AH, no you didn't, you came here for an *argument*!
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
O: Well! it CAN be!
M: No it can't!
An argument is a connected series of statement intended to establish a proposition.
O: No it isn't!
M: Yes it is! 'tisn't just contradiction.
O: Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!
M: Yes but it isn't just saying "no it isn't".
O: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
O: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
O: Yes it is!
M: No it ISN'T! Argument is an intellectual process.
Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.
O: It is NOT!
M: It is!
O: Not at all!
M: It is!
>DING!< The Arguer hits a bell on his desk and stops.
O: Thank you, that's it.
M: (stunned) What?
O: That's it. Good morning.
M: But I was just getting interested!
O: I'm sorry, the five minutes is up.
M: That was never five minutes!!
O: I'm afraid it was.
M: (leading on) No it wasn't.....
(pause)
O: (dirty look) I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue any more.
M: WHAT??
O: If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
M: But that was never five minutes just now!
(pause... the Other Man raises his eyebrows)
Oh Come on!
Oh this is...
This is ridiculous!
O: I told you...
I told you, I'm not allowed to argue unless you PAY!
M: Oh all right. (takes out his wallet and pays again.)
There you are.
O: Thank you.
M: (clears throat) Well...
O: Well WHAT?
M: That was never five minutes just now.
O: I told you, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid!
M: Well I just paid!
O: No you didn't!
M: I DID!!!
O: YOU didn't!
M: I DID!!!
O: YOU didn't!
M: I DID!!!
O: YOU didn't!
M: I DID!!!
O: YOU didn't!
M: (unable to talk straight he's so mad) I don't want to argue about it!
O: Well I'm very sorry but you didn't pay!
M: Ah HAH!! Well if I didn't pay, why are you arguing???
Ah HAAAAAAHHH! Gotcha!
O: (pause) No you haven't!
M: Yes I have!
If you're arguing, I must have paid.
O: Not necessarily.
I *could* be arguing in my spare time.
Charlie Luncher
3rd Mar 2009, 21:56
Biggus
You are correct that some of our clan have rtb'd however, we have never left and I plus many of my peers get a free trip annually. Plus this warrior would not even get out of bed for 10k.:{.
Inter-service rivalry is just that, but there appears to be many uninformed trumpets with a penchant for bollox and lots of it. I can see through it as can many so maybe a little less PC tree hugging hippy crap and a bit of toughen up:ugh:
Charlie sends
P.S Sorry if I have offended any fags, bitches, navigators, blue/green/polyester suit wearing or commode siting non-frontline types.:= I am in counseling to help me deal with blunties :=:E
I agree with nav attack. This is a military forum, not a RAF whingers forum. Let's show our civilian brethren how professional we are, regardless of our country of origin, and why we are proud to be military aviators. Safe flying to all of you.
Charlie Luncher
4th Mar 2009, 22:33
AIDU
Old habits dating pre-internet with a signal pad.:8
Geeky it is the internet the universe of the Nerd Herd:rolleyes:
Charlie sends - again