BA - PILOTS AND CABIN CREW

[The Zombie]

OVER THE LAST DECADE I HAVE NOTICED A SLOW DECLINE IN THE ESSENTIAL WORKING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CABIN CREW AND PILOTS AT BA.

RECENLY THIS HAS TAKEN A SHARP TURN FOR THE WORSE. HAVING EXPERIENCED MANY 'FRUSTRATING EVENTS' OVER THIS TIME I WONDER WHAT CAN BE DONE TO RECTIFY THIS VERY BAD TREND ON BOTH 'SIDES OF THE FLIGHT DECK DOOR'?

WE ALL KNOW OUR RESPOSIBILITIES AND JOBS SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

AFTER LOTS OF THOUGHT I MUST SAY THAT A HARDENING ON BOTH SIDES IS ONE OF THE MANY CAUSES AND A LACK OF SUPPORT BY PILOT MANAGERS IS ANOTHER. ALSO AN OVER WHELMING DESIRE IN CABIN SERVICES MANAGEMENT TO EMPIRE BUILD HAS HAD A DIRECT NEGATIVE IMPACT.

JUST LOOK AT ALL THE BA PILOT/CABIN CREW THREADS ON THIS SITE AND READ ALL THE FRUSTRATION TOO.

WILL IT REALLY TAKE AN ACCIDENT TO GET THINGS TO A COMMON SENSE APPROACH AGAIN OR CAN WE ALL GET ON AND WORK TOGETHER.

THERE CAN BE MANY MANAGERS ON BOARD BUT ONLY ONE CAPTAIN.....................YES?

WHAT DO YOU THINK CABIN CREW READING THIS ?
ARE YOU ANTI PILOTS AND IF SO WHY?
WHAT DO YOU THINK PILOTS READING THIS ?
ARE YOU ANTI CABIN CREW AND IF SO WHY ?

AS FOR ME I SAY THINGS MUST GET BETTER !

LETS ALL WORK TOGETHER AGAIN AND ENJOY WORKING FOR THE NATIONAL FLAG CARRIER .

OFF TO PUT MY TIN HAT ON AGAIN AND WAIT FOR THE 'INCOMING'.

[Hung start]

Ok, and please hit the "caps lock" button while you´re at it... :)

[fireflybob]

Phew, where do we start?
What's happened to all the CRM/HRM stuff which BA seem to go overboard on?
Is this a classic case of divide and rule?
Yes, there is only ever one commander on an aircraft but there is more than one way of leading!
I think a lot of this sort of stuff is symptomatic of what is going on in society in general. There is a lack of respect for authority and a demand for "rights" without the recognition that this comes with "responsibility".
Yes, I agree, that authority is not always right and there should be an atmosphere where crew members feel appreciated and comfortable to express a view about an aspect of the operation but, at the end of the day, there is only one person, on an aircraft, who makes the final decision.
The culture and ambience of any enterprise comes down from the top and if what you say is true then I strongly suspect that things higher up the ladder are not as they should be!

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[everybody]

Perhaps we could have a debate on what CRM is and is not.

Seems to me everyone wants to use it to prove their own point. If a cabin crew member feels that a pilot has been rude to her, she'll say "What sort of CRM is that ?" and the pilots will pretty much say the same thing in the reverse case.

Wasn't CRM introduced so that when there are problems tasks get delegated effectively and people are able to contribute any relevant information. This is supposed to mean that we don't end up with people doing stupid things that everbody else is aware of but is too scared to point out. Whether it's landing at the wrong airfield, or equally, the cabin crew doing something inappropriate with a passenger. Ideally two-way communication should be possible.

The way I see it the best way to try to get this communication going again is to talk about stuff. If you shout at someone for messing with your temperature controls they'll just get the hump. If you explain to them that any adjustment of the engine controls affects the engine bleed state and could cause problems with fuel flow, climb rate or whatever, then not only will they realise they shouldn't be playing with it but they won't mind asking next time either.

I know cabin crew prefer not to know a lot of what's going on but surely explaining things where possible can only help us to understand each other's roles better. We can help by taking an interest in what they're up to can't we ?

[Capt PPRuNe]

Why do we have to start another thread/topic when there is one already running? Anyway, this one isn't a rumour or news anymore so off to Aircrew Notices if you want to debate it.


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Capt PPRuNe
aka Danny Fyne
The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork

[airforcenone]

I have to say that I'm a little worried at the prospect of leaving the regions, and cabin crew who won't stab you in the back at the slightest provocation, this year for the delights of the old smoke and 747-400s. I'm looking forward to a new aeroplane and routes but not the apparant anti-social attitude of LHR. I agree totally with the original post that at worst a major incident could occur due to this lack of CRM and teamwork. Remember who reaches the scene of the accident first .........

[The Zombie]

Why do we have to start another thread/topic when there is one already running? Anyway, this one isn't a rumour or news anymore so off to Aircrew Notices if you want to debate it.

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Capt PPRuNe


Well Capt PPRuNe as it is your football, so yes you can play in goal !

But on a more sensible note the thread was started to try and progress the debate and if you had left it alone I am sure it would have become more rumour and yes it IS news to all outside BA.......

[f40]

Zombie, interesting topic for some of outsiders, yes. But only if you state a bit more clearly what kind of problems you are alluding to.
Only that way can outsiders compare it to relations in their companies and maybe learn something.

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Singularly Simple Person........

[Warlock2000]

Have to agree that this seems to be an ever growing problem in airlines all over the world. In some companies the flight deck and cabin crew even stay in different hotels on layovers! I'm sure this does wonders for that TEAM BUILDING which is so often mentioned during the CRM courses. Another managment marvel I'm sure!

Fortunately it's not all that bad where I'm at, but, I have noticed a marked decrease in Flight/Cabin crew relations the past few years. I'm not quite sure why or how this has developed, but at times I get the impression that everyone wants to a CHIEF, and no-one wants to an INDIAN (figuritively speaking of course). As someone mentioned earlier, these three letters, CRM, are thrown in everyone's face and they are supposed to make it all right, I say boolchit - a little courtesy and respect goes a long way.

It's a great job, cut the crap and have fun!

[wallabie]

My God !!

You guys are so serious. All of this obviously is the result of a huge lack of TLC under the duna !!
Talking CRM to a mademoiselle !!!!!! You guys can't be serious ! Ask your mothers, they'll know and you'll be happy post puberty bunnies again.