CEP-Communication Ear Protection

[bomb]

Thought this might be a follow on for the helmets thread but I will try a new thread anyway.

CEP, does anyone use it,thoughts,pros and cons.

Thanks

Bomb

[John Eacott]

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere, but yes, and much better than ANR :ok:

Especially for doors off ops, where ANR simply can't cope with the overpressure/wind noise, but CEP knows no difference and still copes nicely. A well fitting helmet is also essential too, in order to maximise the overall noise attenuation.

I wish something similar had been available 20 years ago to protect my hearing when it was a bit younger ;)

[D.Curle]

Hey there Bomb, I use these under my peltor headsets and cannot praise them enough...They cut out approx 20-40db's (40db's at the higher freq's, the more damaging freq's that you can't hear)!! on top of the protection from the headset itself.....They can take a little to get used to if you are not used to using ear plugs themselves,and because more background noise is eliminated,you can turn the radio's down but still hear them better than before...
All the best,
David.

[sox6]

CEPs are excellent kit.

[sherpa]

CEPs are definitely great for hearing protection, especially doing doors of external load operations, but they’re a pain in the butt if you do frequent short runs. Also, when flying requires a lot of large altitude variations, my inner ears are starting to hurt. I think that’s do to the lack of pressure equalization.

[Gomer Pylot]

I have no problems with my ears hurting. I experience much less discomfort than with clamping headsets. I've used them as both in-the-ear lightweight headsets and installed in a helmet, and they're wonderful in both. CEPs are one of the best investments I've made in aviation gear.

[bomb]

Thanks guys for your thoughts. I fly a BK117 occasionally on long line ops and like John E probably knows they can be a terrible machine for noise especially with your head out the door.

Bomb

[spinwing]

Mmmm ....

I recently fitted several of my friends headsets with these kits obtained by a colleague in the USA.

They are EXCELLENT and I was mighty impressed with them. I was told that the US Military swear by these and they are now virtually compulsory for rotary wing use.

Installation can be a bit fiddly .... takes about an hour to install the kit properly.

Good stuff! :ok:

[Heliringer]

OK, due to me being a ham fisted mong and not being capable of fitting CEP to my own helmet. Can anyone in Australia recommend who I can send my Helmet (Gallet) to get fitted with this. I've been thinking about ANR but doors off my ANR headset is bad so I expect the Helmet would be the same with ANR fitted.
The Flight Helmet Australia guy will not do this the last time I emailed him.

Thanks
Ringer

[bomb]

Ringer

I have not bought my kit and am looking around. Is there an Australian company stocking the CEP kit or do I have to go to the US? Where did you get yours from? if I may ask.

Thanks

Bomb

[John Eacott]

Safety Equipment Technical Services P/L: 03 9878 7158 :ok:

[Bladestrike]

I finally broke down and bought some after forever flying with someone who had a set. I thought it looked rather complicated with the extra wires but after numerous "what did he say?" from me after a radio or sat phone conversation I broke down and got some.

In my opinion they take some getting used to but after the first week you forget they're in. They are far superior to the ANR headsets in my opinion, which I found terrible if you opened a window. ANR seems do little for wind noise and things are significantly quieter with the CEP units. I just got some custom fitted ear plugs made and like them even more now. Since they are so inexpensive I actually got myself a spare set, and have them set up in both my helmet and an older David Clark headset (above 15 degrees celcius I wear a headset).

[wulfman76]

I had been looking at them for quite some time and broke down and bought a set about a year ago. I installed them myself, didn't really like drilling a hole in my helmet for it.

After about 400hrs flying with them I wouldn't spend the money again. Granted, they are quieter and the radio is clearer. Previously I had some oregon aero earcups and the best earplugs you can buy at walmart(200plugs for 6$ i think) and never had a problem hearing the radio or felt my hearing was being damaged.

The final straw was when i had to have somebody pick a CEP plug out of my ear canal with a needle nose pliers...twice.

They may work great for some people but i found the earplugs uncomfortable, the wire bothersome and snag prone and were a general pain in the a##.

I took them out over the winter and will be going back to my old setup.
Hope this gives you the other side of the story.
BW

[eagle 86]

Used one on my new Alpha for about 2 months until male plug failed!
GAGS
E86

[bomb]

Thanks John E for the number. Cheers guys on your comments. I am now in the process of getting a set.

Thanks
Bomb

[Gomer Pylot]

Wulfman76, you must be inserting the plugs way too far into your ears. They should still stick out a little, and you should be able to extract them with your fingers.

[wulfman76]

You're right Gomer, I probably was inserting them to far...which leads me to another reason i didn't like them. If i didn't stick them in my ear far enough my helmet earcups would snag on them pulling them out.

Sorry to be a downer on this as it is obvious most people like them. I personally dont care for them.

[John Eacott]

W76,

You should have received three different sizes of foam inserts with your CEP, which then gives a fair chance of finding a size that will fit your ear canal without the problem that you relate. There is also a "mini" version of the CEP available, designed to reduce the other problem that you have, catching on the earcup of your helmet.

And I don't get a commission on all this advice ;)

[Bladestrike]

I should add that I had difficulty getting the included foam plugs to the right depth as well, especially if pressed for time, but I finally got some custom fitted silicon jobs (company covers the cost) and they are far superior. It's impossible to get those too deep or not deep enough.

[wmy]

Bladestrike,

Do those silicone eartips connect directly to the original CEP-Earphones?
If so, do you have a manufacturer of those custom made eartips?

Point is, i also use CEP and i got such custom moulded silicone eartips. They do a superb job in terms of noise reduction, however, as the CEP-Phones are screwed into them, they tend to loosen from time to time...

regards, walter

[chiefedge]

If you wear a skull cap and pull your helmet over that then you do not dislodge the cep ear pieces as much.
Takes a little getting used to but its very good.

[wardy20]

John E, thanks for starting this thread.Being a newbie to flying, i didnt know such things existed. I bought a David Clarke ANR headset which i find a generally great piece of kit but was having trouble with doors off as some of you mentioned. Is a real hassle to fit the kit yourself?

[asianrotorhunter]

Just took delivery of a shiny Bose headset.
Anyone out there managed to hook CEPs into the Bose? Would it void the warranty? Is it easy to do yourself or is a pro needed?


:cool:

[spinwing]

Mmmm....

asianrotorhunter ....


I think you will find CEP's a complete waste of time with a Bose headset!


:=

[polar57]

I use CEP with a Bose and find it very good. The Bose is great at removing low freq noise, but I would rate it as poor for hi freq. If you fly piston the Bose is fantastic. In the Puma types I fly there is a great deal of hi freq noise and have been advised after company tests not to use the Bose. Some others have even gone back to standard Peltors and leave the Bose at home!

Anyway I rate the CEP system very highly for hi freq noise reduction, combined with the Bose for the low freq, I believe this combination the best I have tried by a significant margin. Flying over 7hrs in a day used to give me a nasty headache, with any headset, not any more.

Downsides: Extra wires can be a pain, the earplugs can be tricky to fit properly.

Overall well worth the extra hassle, I did a short flight the other day with just the Bose and couldn’t believe how noisy it was.

I fitted the CEP myself and can give anyone a few pointers, but after the experience would recommend paying someone else for an easier live.
Hope this helps.

[PPRuNeUser0212]

I gave Safety Equipment Technical Services a call yesterday as I need some new foam tips and also a new set of ear pieces. Unfortunately if the wire breaks close to the ear piece, it seems unrepairable. The prices he quoted me were more than double the prices quoted from the supplier in the States. So best to order from the supplier.
I find them a great asset in the back of the helicopters and now can't live without them.
I have made a repair to the broken ear piece by soldering an "in the ear" headphone off a normal personal stereo.

Eagle 86, have had the same problem with the male fitting, you just have to be gentle (unlike your keyboard pounding) when removing the plug.;)
I found a small plastic cable tie keeps it secure.

[eagle 86]

Just be careful LHS you might have to fly with me again!! Concur - US supplier quoted $US92=$A130 - roughly - OZ mob $A205!
GAGS
E86

[asianrotorhunter]

I've been on Communications & Ear Protection, Inc. (http://www.cep-usa.com) but they only list CEPs for helmuts. Can these be used on Headsets?

Polar57 - Where did you get your CEPs from, and what model?

:cool:

[spinwing]

I've been on Communications & Ear Protection, Inc. but they only list CEPs for helmuts. Can these be used on Headsets?


Mmmmm......

You need to look a bit harder .... the kit you want is ... CEP900-104

Look under ... "special applications"

Cheers :E

[polar57]

I got my CEP from www.cep-usa.com (http://www.pprune.org/www.cep-usa.com) .They didn’t do online shopping with credit cards so had to send a money order, which worked out in the end.

Please don’t go drilling holes in the earcup of the Bose it will completely trash the headset and be costly to repair. :=

I spliced a wired headphone socket into the lead itself, above the coils. Then converted the CEP earphones to a standard mini plug (like ipod). So they just plug in. I put in a volume control as well to help get all the levels just right. (All purchased from maplin)

Doing it this way means less risk to the headset, if it all goes wrong you can buy a new Bose lead from BOSE® AVIATION HEADSET X from Aircraft Spruce (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/bosehdst.php) Not cheap I know, but much less than a new headset if you decide to start drilling holes!:ooh:

There are five wires if I remember correctly, If you look at the socket by the microphone it’s the middle two wires i.e. no 2 and 4, can’t remember the colours. I tested it listening to my ipod in the garden cutting grass before getting into an aircraft. It was all kept tidy with heat shrink tubing and cable ties, as I hate too many wires flapping about.

The result is simply great hearing protection that can be worn all day while maintaining good intercom and radio communication. I would highly recommend it if you work long hours in a very hi noise environment.

The only downsides are an extra couple of min getting setup, instead of just put on the headset and fly. Also the Bose has many great features, they do fall down when there is a fluctuation in air pressure, i.e. open windows and doors. After a couple of flights in a 212 in a desert environment it was straight back to Peltors.

I seemed to have rambled on for ages, not much else to do on standby, just want to say I have no connection with any of the company’s above.

Good luck if anyone does it let me know how it goes.

[busdriver02]

I'm a Yank helo type so I fly with CEP, they're fantastic. As mentioned, they take a bit of getting used to and I've had to do the extract the dislodged foamy with a needle nose pliers thing but overall, they're much better than the alternative.

[cladosporangium]

I have been using ceps for about two months now and find them excellent!

Previous concern about my decreasing hearing has gone.

Tiny problem if your other crewmembers or passengers are on conventional headsets/helmets, they often don't hear the radio you have now turned down, and will talk over incoming radio traffic.:rolleyes:

Mine are custom-made (impossible to push in too far) by "Headset services" at Shoreham. u.k. tel: 01273234181
Initial ear moulds can be taken at any hearing-aid shop, (there are plenty out there, didn't see them myself until I started searching.)
Your helmet will need to be adapted though.

For anyone who has hearing that is very close to the limits during their medical this is worth the cost and effort.

Clado

[OntimeOntarget]

I strongley recommend getting rid of C.E.P.'s OEM"foam" tips provided with the kit. Instead, order 5-pairs of triple-flange rubber inner-ear plugs from www.Etymotic.com (http://www.Etymotic.com) Etymotic's replacement tips are excellent - durable, seal the ear canal perfectly, do not wear out, are washable, and basically work about 1,000x better than C.E.P.'s goofy & very uncomfortable foam tips.

Buy a C.E.P. system - BUT definitely get rid of CEPs foam ear tips.

[Gomer Pylot]

I don't agree that the foam eartips are goofy or uncomfortable. In addition, the NRR is about twice as high as for the Etymotic earplugs, which are very low. My only complaint about the foam eartips supplied with CEPs is the expense. I use standard disposable foam earplugs with plastic tubing inserted, which works well for me and is very cheap. I have triple-flange silicone tips, but I don't like them as well as the foam eartips.

[asianrotorhunter]

Gomer Pylot - I agree, the foam earplugs are superior. Especially in warm climates where the rubber and silicon earplugs get sweaty and promote ear infections.

Yes foam tips are expensive but if kept clean can last well over 50 hours.

[TiPwEiGhT]

Hi folks,

Can anyone suggest a UK or European supplier for CEP. I have it installed in my Gallet and am very happy with it. However the earcups are pushing them into my ear causing alot of discomfort. Am wanting to try the "mini" CEP plugs to see if they make a difference before changing the headset to ANR.

Many thanks,

TiP

[Paddyviking]

Hi All
I have used CEP's now for 2 years and find them excellent for protection and radio reception
Recently tried new Bose A20 but when used with silicone noise reducers in my ear I had to turn up the radio quite a lot --- I wasn't overly impressed enough to convert helmet to the Bose system
I suggested to our company supplier that the Bose A20 and CEP combination might be worth a try but they were dismissive of that
saying they were not compatable (maybe they thought it would be too much work involved--I don't know)
Recently some of our guys have tried fitting the CEP's into the moulded
earpieces as others have discribed above but to date all feed back from the pilots who have tried them are negative
They have reverted back to the standard foam inserts supplied with the CEP's, reason being that silicone didn't provide a good enough seal in the ear
So this has put me off doing the same
I have had wires break on some of my CEP's along with a few plugs wearing to the point of intermittent comms loss which required replacing with new CEP's, but on balance I would not change them for anything else on the market today.
In our company all sorts of headsets/helmets and combinations have/are being tried and there is no one system that works for all,
Gallet hemets along with CEP's fitted are popular and Helmets fitted with Bose A20 close behind
Hope this info is useful to someone out there

PV :ok:

Flying the S92 so I need as much protection as I can get :eek:

[Martin1234]

Recently tried new Bose A20 but when used with silicone noise reducers in my ear I had to turn up the radio quite a lot[..]

Do you mean silicone noise reducers such as custom made musicians earplugs like the ER25?

Did the sound lack in clarity or why is it a problem to turn up the radio if using earplugs?

[Paddyviking]

Not sure of the technical name for them but it is the moulded ones that can reduce the noise at different frequencies by the required decibel level.
By turning up the radio to compensate for the reduction by the moulded earpieces are you not increasing the noise/energy level very close to your eardrum. Seems like you counter the protection you get by increasing the noise level entering your ear !!
Everytime I enter the cockpit after somebody using standard foam or ER25's with or without ANR,I have to turn down the volume settings which are usually very high (almost full in some cases)-----all that noise/energy in your ear no matter what protection you use cannot be good at such close range to your eardrum IMHO :confused:
And yes sound clarity in the CEP's is clearer than anything else I have tried while the foam provides good passive protection

regards
PV

[SKYWIZ]

I have a Gallet fitted with ANR of which I have had a few issues with the ANR of late plus the standard issues of batteries going flat (always at the wrong time when you are fully hands on). Following some reviewing, I have decided to add a CEP kit to the existing ANR. From reviewing, it appears that this can be done meaning I can use both ANR & CEP, or one or the other. Benefit being for doors off operations where I find the high pressure changes from rotor downwash can distort and work the ANR overtime, sometimes making communication difficult. Being able to use CEP only will mean I still have good ear protection if ANR off and maintain excellent intercom/radio inteligence. I know some that simply use ordinary old ear plugs and turn up the master volume but I find the clarity of voice transmissions is reduced greatly. I am keen to see how this goes as don't know of anyone with both systems so will update post once I have tested and tried the CEP on the ANR... If anyone has already done this to an ANR system, keen to hear your thoughts?

[Vee-r]

My favourite setup is to use custom ear plugs under my ANR headset. Etymotic Research, Inc. - Musicians Earplugs High-Fidelity Hearing Protection (http://www.etymotic.com/hp/erme.html) I've tried CEP's under a David Clark passive headset (with foam tips) and found I got ear pain after 6 hours of flying a day. I'd like to try CEP's with custom molded tips, it might be an improvement but I still feel they will stick out too far into the headset cup and cause pressure issues.
The custom plugs work well for me as I can wear them all day (8 hours +) with no discomfort at all and the musician filters preserve the frequencies while lowering the decibel level (no muffled sound like normal foam ear plugs).

That being said I'm still on a quest for the perfect noise reduction (still suffer from ANR induced wind noise issues with my Lightspeed Zulu) but my comfort issues are all gone.

[kjw57]

I've used CEP for around 5 yrs. now, with foam tips. Comfort is an issue after 4 hrs. or so, but bearable. My biggest issue is the wire breaking by the earpiece.

I try to be gentle when using, never pulling directly on the wires but no love they break every couple of yrs. requiring replacement, on my 3rd. pair now.

Even with the wear issues I find their effectiveness more than justifies the cost.

[gwelo shamwari]

I have been using CEP's with my David Clark ANR headset now since 2007. Flying between 60-120 hrs a month. I had an issue for a while with them applying too much pressure on my ear cannel (DC headset applying pressure), but I bought Oregon Aero ear muffs and have not had an issue since. My CEP lasted me until last week when one of the transducers pulled out of the housing. I got in touch with CEP-USA and they very happily sent me a replacement.

I can tell you that for me they are superb, great audio clarity and noise protection.

[hovering dog]

Hi,

I would like to install CEP in my Bose A20.
Has anyone tried CEP in a ANR headset?
And has anyone installed it in a Bose A20, and how did you do it??

Thanks :)

[Bladestrike]

It's been done, one of the guys at my last base put a cep system into his first generation ANR Bose, and he was quite impressed with the results, but I cannot offer any guidance on the "how to".

[jonnyloove]

If you contact CEP Direct in the U.S they will fit it for you at a cost.

[copterguy]

I have been using them for a long time about 8-9 years. I get tested every year for hearing loss by my company. I have had little to none as far as loss. I use a company that makes the mold of your ear. precision labs Products (http://www.precisionweb.com/precision_labs_003.htm) they make them for all kinds of applications ipods, tactical, shooting. I have a few sets just in case one is broken. I just send one back and ready to go with the other. I dont fly without them. I use to fly with the volume all the way up and now its just cracked open. not cheap but good quality.
Dave