Qantas Airbus A330/200/300 The Flying Freezer

[bulstrode]

These(Qantas) Aircraft are unbelievably cold particularly around the Galleys.Even through the cabin it is difficult to stabilize the temperature.Thr heat pads around doors 1 and 4 have issues.
The aircraft are cold enough to freeze a glass of water on the door 4 bustle.I kid you not.
And yes we know how to use the FAP
Is it just Qantas Aircraft with this problem or are they all like this?

[westausatc]

Is this why A330's climb like a brick sh!thouse once they get above f280? Bleeding too much air from the engines to provide an igloo like cabin instead of producing something useful, like thrust?

[ROH111]

Don't knock the bus. She goes alright! :ok:

[Skystar320]

Be glad your cold... better than bloody hot...

Remember a 10hr flight and the front section aircon packed up... bloody farken hot....

I agree the bus is nicer... than a 767-300ER in so many ways, but still doesnt beat the led -200 / ER! :=

[westausatc]

Everything I have read about the A330 is great from a passenger point of view and they tend to cruise faster than B76's or B73's (least as far as Oz is concerned) but just wish the buggers could climb... and don't get me started on descent speeds and profiles!

Surely there is some sort of thermostat control on them... Even the PC9 ECS has one for goodness sake!

[rup]

its all got to do with how many zones and sensors options you have in your cabin, aircrafts initially meant for domestic runs,now running long range
will always have temp stabilising issues.

Also airline policy to keep cabins cold to save fuel, Air As*a X,
and then sell blankets on board.

Fokkers,
Embraers,
Bombardiers,
and Airbuses are very bad,

its also the whole aircraft bad design
badly placed outlets and louvres,
dirty airconditioning systems,
bid galleys at the back of the cabin are difficult to heat,
minimal use of insulation to save weight.

the best are the boeings,ask the people flying them.
i hope this last statement will keep the discussion going.

[LetsGoRated]

Another nonsensical rambling from RUP. Ignore this fool. Surely a wind-up

[Back Seat Driver]

bulstrodeThe aircraft are cold enough to freeze a glass of water on the door 4 bustle.I kid you not.
Funny, I don't recall seeing cup-holders included in the door bustles. I wonder why not? OH Hang on, maybe Airbus decided not to heat the slide/raft pack, much to the detriment of your hydration regime. Perhaps there is more to it than you have already considered.

[dizzylizzy]

Having paxed on numerous A333's I didn't find there was an issue, both in Y & J cabins.

In the latest CCN it mentioned that floor heaters are being enabled again?

[blackguard]

The aforementioned glass of water on the bustle was purposefully placed to see what would happen.The water iced over.
Paxing somewhere on an Airbus would not give you any idea of Cabin temperature.You are supplied with a blanket and a diligent crew would constantly monitor the cabin temeperature and alter accordingly.
The Galleys on these kites are a farce...they are abolutely freezing.Qantas has just allowed their crews to wear the uniform all weather jacket in the galleys on night services.
Morrisey didnt supply or design knitwear for the QF uniform because...get this...he doesnt believe in it

[Skystar320]

I want what Rup is on.......

Is it good? Sounds like it

[lowerlobe]

Remember a 10hr flight and the front section aircon packed up...
Skystar...Skystar...Do you remember the story of Pinocchio.....:hmm:

[Skystar320]

Sure do mate! :ok::ok::ok::ok: Great show

[dizzylizzy]

So is the issue only relating to the aft galley and doors 4?

[The Hedge]

The Galleys on these kites are a farce

Not quite.The 330 comes with floor heating under the galley floors as an customer option. . Also available for heating the the flight deck foot rests.

[blackguard]

The heated pads have been disconnected as they became too hot
The Galleys at doors 2 and 4 are freezing
The temperature in the cabin is unstable and requires continual monitoring

[dizzylizzy]

Get over it, after all its all about the pax experience and as from the feedback from numerous sources its v. positive. Perhaps it gets cold because the crew aren't doing walk throughs or water runs?

[lowerlobe]

Get over it, after all its all about the pax experience
Well,dizzylizzy you seem to have an alter ego with someone else who's name starts with a 'T'....and something we would expect to hear from the fishbowl when talking about problems at work
However,talking about the pax experience you seem to contradict yourself with some of your previous comments such as....
Also out with carts with bad wheels, its worse than a shopping trolley with bad wheels, hurts my back.
But dizzylizzy...isn't it all about the pax experience??????...

You also seem to comment on everything from tech crew vacancies to flights and loads in and out of all sorts of regional ports then offer to talk about snack on Q bags?????
Skystar, were you on a commercial ticket or staff travel? Surely being on stafftravel you'd have viewed the loads and not done a lizzydizzy and turned up to an oversold, undercatered, late and 25staff listed flight?

I'm more than happy to check some loads on stafftravel on specific routes if you want.
Now you're offering to give staff travel figures and company information to someone who's identity you have no idea....that is of course assuming you are crew and not just another pretender on pprune yourself.

[bulstrode]

The wellbeing and health of CC determines the quality of the passenger experience.
CC who are chilled to the bone are more prone to colds and less able to provide an "exceptional customer experience"

[maui]

Bulstrode.

Thanks, you have just verified why Q service is such a crappy experience. I have always wondered how so many can be so disengaged.:D

Thanks

Maui

[lowerlobe]

Thanks maui,you have just verified that we are living in the 'Me' generation.

People today are so self absorbed that they fail to see or are not interested in what others have to put up with so that they can get what they want in life....

I would like to know how you would feel if your flight deck/work environment/office was that cold that you had to put a blanket around yourself to keep warm because you could not turn the heat up ?

Then we would see how many are disengaged as you put it in your office and how they responded to customers or anyone else you deal with?

Thanks
LL

[whatever6719]

All I can say to that is Here Here!!

[Back Seat Driver]

LL,
On your next visit to the 330 flight deck, you may want to have a look at the windscreen frame. You will see the ice that forms on the inside of the frame caused by the heat transfer through the metal frame, a piece of metal alloy that runs the full thickness of the airframe, just like the door frame this topic is about. Until they build the frame supports from a non-conductive material, the heat transfer will happen, it's called physics. In the meantime Bulstrode and their kind should toughen up, do something proactive about staying warm and stop whining about how this affects their comfort and their ability to do their job. I bet it's not cold enough to refuse to work there, and instigate a proper workplace investigation. That would require you to make a stand, with all the recriminations that may result. God help us if some of these wimpy little urchins are ever called on in a tough spot. :ugh:

And LL, I agree, the vast majority of cc are top folk, but a few of them are total drips. Me thinks Bulstrode, having a whinge about this on a pilots forum is pretty feeble.
Bye the bye Bulstrode, be ever-so careful opening those drink cans, might chip a nail if you're not careful.

[twiggs]

Facts:
-A330 galleys are cold. (so is the upper deck on a 744 and numerous other
places.
-Our requests for woolen garments to combat this continues to be denied.
-A330 galleys being cold is not the cause of disengagement, the response to
our request is.

Crap:
-The level of service cabin crew provide is compromised because the galley is
cold.

[blueloo]

As a pax on the 330 I have stood in the galley at doors 2 on several occasions. It is colder than a polar bears bum. Usually I wear shoes, on one occasion just those socky things provided - it was freezing on the floor. The cabin sit there rugged up with blankets and hot water bottles. It is not someone's imagination at work here, it is friggen cold.

The only way to attack the issue is via OHS. The company doesn't have any concern for any staff members welfare unless it costs them money. An unfortunate legacy of Geoff.

[The Hedge]

On your next visit to the 330 flight deck, you may want to have a look at the windscreen frame. You will see the ice that forms on the inside of the frame caused by the heat transfer through the metal frame

...great for keeping the milk cold for the cornflakes:)

[DEFCON4]

Just imagine if the cockpit was so cold water froze and you needed a Gortex jacket....old BSD would be onto the Fleet Manager in a flash.
The temperature in the Cabin of an A330 is not controlled from the flight Deck but from the FAP at L1
The flying dinosaurs, who are real men, are always critical of those who complain about their imperfect environment.
The flight deck is about as close as going back to the womb as it gets.There is more going on behind the flight deck then there is in front of it.Get of your fat derrieres and find out what happens on the rest of the aircraft.
A stand has been made,reports written and surveys conducted.
Conclusion: the A330 is a Fridge.
So how do you fix that?
C'mon you genii provide an inexpensive and effective solution for the aircraft.
There will not be one of you smart enough.
There will be obtusely amusing jibes and sarcastic commentary but little else.
Bloody typical

[Old Fella]

Bring back the F/E's.

[Captain.Que]

The Cabin Temperature control on the flight deck of the A330 provides a reset function only.
Airbus are reknowned for putting lotsa things lotsa places for no apparent reason.

[blackguard]

There are two to four people in front of the flight deck door.
There can be hundreds behind it.
Gee I wonder where all the activity is?.
The BS and the arrogance is certainly greater in front of it.
Just to stay on track...its always warmer on the flight deck.
Something to do with large amounts of hot air and gases equalizing apparently

[Keg]

A stand has been made...

With the greatest respect, obviously not a stand that carries any weight. One of the earlier contributors was right. This needs to become a safety issue before it will get any great attention. An OHS issue would see it dealt with....as long as it fits the criteria.

Of course it will take someone to actually do the research on the relevant OHS legislation and rules to work out how to prosecute the issue correctly. Time spent moaning about it- or whinging about who has the biggest pen..I mean workload- on PPRUNE is time not spent on getting a solution. :ugh: :rolleyes:

[blackguard]

A stand has been made.You work for QF .You know these things take time.
The matter is before the OH and S committee even as we type.

[Back Seat Driver]

Conclusion: the A330 is a Fridge.
So how do you fix that?
Not by the fairies running around the bottom of the prune garden crying like a bunch of kiddies throwing a tantrum about how cold it is in 330 galleys. Harangue your manager with your hysterics, and in the meantime, Harden-Up.

[blackguard]

The Back Seat Driver has spoken.All is right with world

[Back Seat Driver]

Defcon 4, you are mistaken - (Cap Q too)
The temperature in the Cabin of an A330 is not controlled from the flight Deck but from the FAP at L1
380Driver is correct.
A330 FCOM - "The flight crew uses the temperature selectors on the air panel in the cockpit to select the reference temperature which are fine tuned through the FAP for the cabin zones".... so on and so on
Get your facts right or you will look stupid. :ugh:

[blackguard]

Indicates and effects a minimum or maximum range of temperature inside which cabin temperature can be varied from the FAP.
Has any A330 driver ever been asked to reset minimum or maximum range by anyone outside the flight deck?
The cabin temperature can be effectively controlled by the FAP with no input from the flight deck.
Be careful BSB next time you touch something the dog might bite you

[Back Seat Driver]

Blackguard, deliver the facts of your case not inane dog tails, you wannabe.The cabin temperature can be effectively controlled by the FAP with no input from the flight deck.
The FAP has an adjustment range of +/- 3 deg.C of the temp.set in the flight deck which has a rotary select knob with a range of 18-30 deg. C.
If as it seems you don't know that, then for everyones sake, stay away from the FAP. You are probably the cause not the fix. If you have suffered through a 'cold spell' and not asked the Flt deck for help with the temperature control, then you're a goose. :{

[DEFCON4]

Depending on the number of pax and whether or not the Aircraft is airborne the ideal cabin temperature is around 24.Moving within a range of 3 to 4 degrees is sufficient.Input from flight deck not required.
Next time we need a tall buxom blonde to disrobe the flight deck will asked to ramp the temperature up to 30

[Back Seat Driver]

And therein lies the problem. Defcon4 has got all the answers.
Handing over to defcon, You have control. NOT

[DEFCON4]

C'mon old son you dont need to micromanage everything.
May be you do and thats part of your myopia.
The Airbus temperatures are all over the shop.
The FAP says 24 and the pax in that zone of the Cabin are freezing.You can feel the coldness of the air coming from the vents.It is definitley not 24
This is particularly evident just forward of doors three.
If you ventured into cabin you would know that

[DEFCON4]

Why would we want "max hot" when we can make it temperate? ...which is what is required.
Fact...no matter who controls what on an Airbus A330 the temperature features are a mess.
Which is why QF have now given permission for crew to wear all weather jackets in the cabin on night sectors.

[DEFCON4]

For the flight deck old trout.
Pity the poor second officer that has to sit behind you for 14 hours.
But then again you probably have 12 hours in the bunk.

[DEFCON4]

Not TWO Captains on the same Flight Deck.
Who gets to be on top?The Svelte 172cm/ 120kg one?

[lowerlobe]

These sort of infantile debates proves and achieves nothing......

I don't care who controls the cabin temp or who has the biggest knob but I do care about the cabin temp being comfortable and consistent.....which it isn't....

The point which is the theme of this thread is about the temp in the galleys and doors and not who controls it.

Back Seat Driver....To simply have a shot at someone because they are saying it is cold only reflects poorly on your personality but thats your choice.

I have never seen the drivers sitting up there with blankets wrapped around themselves to keep warm whereas this is a common occurrence in the galleys.In fact I cannot remember any flightdeck being anything other than warm as toast.

To suggest that those Cabin Crew unhappy with this are less capable than you to withstand cold shows a lot about you....so much for CRM

[merlinxx]

The punter allows the Co. to pay your salary, no punters, no salary :mad:wits.

I grew up in the 1960s UK charter industry, I learnt very, very early who pays my wages:ok:

We all know the industry wording behind QANTAS, so stop acting like some spaced out queens:ugh:

[prunezeuss]

The FAP contols the Cabin Temeperature within a required range.Pilot input not required.Unfortunately the temperature indicated on the FAP is not the actual temperature in the Cabin.Neither the Flt Deck Knob or the FAP controls the temperature in the Galleys.
Switching the chillers off after the meal service helps

[lowerlobe]

This is really becoming tedious and it's no wonder that the mods lose patience....

This is not about the insecurities of those posting here.....this is about Galley temps being so cold that you have to wear several layers of extra clothing to keep warm other than those supplied by the company.....if you think about it,crew wearing blankets is not a good look and does not fit into the image the company wants the pax to see.

Lets' look at several facts....

The flight deck never gets this cold ...

The galley's are not controlled by either the flight deck or the FAP .....

The temp datum is set by the pilots but then is adjusted by Cabin Crew using the FAP to several degrees +/-.This is so that we do not have to bother the flight deck every 30 minutes or so and should not be misconstrued by pilots here as an attempt to over ride their authority.

A380-800 driver,to be honest I don't care if the drivers want to control the temp .If you as pilots feel your power is being usurped by Cabin Crew adjusting the cabin temp then do it and be prepared to have Cabin Crew call you several times an hour...

If the CSM does not have to do it then it's one less thing for Cabin Crew to do.This is not a pi$$ing contest .....

The problem could simply be fixed by either a tech mod or by supplying more clothing for the Cabin Crew.

Knowing the cost involved for a tech mod it would seem the easiest and cheapest fix would be to give the crew some extra clothing but as usual the Middle East will find peace before this happens....

[blueloo]

I would suggest that A380 driver is representative of a select few pilots who have social inabilities and severe "power" "iSSsewes". He is not "luckily" the representative nor should be construed as the voice of the majority of pilots.

[captainrats]

Blueloo you have nailed it in one.
Have a look at "Qantas A380 woes" Thread.
He has SkyGod issues

[Old Fella]

The most recent post by LowerLobe is the most truthful and balanced post I have read thus far on this thread. I know nothing about the A330 system, however it seems that the "Master Temp Control" is in the cockpit and a "Trimming Control" is in the cabin. What I am unable to determine from any post is whether or not anyone is able to "trim" individual zones. As a retired Classic F/E I am aware that the temperature in various zones can vary markedly and that is why there were five Zone controls on the F/E panel. I agree that it must be uncomfortable for the CC if they are unable to maintain a comfortable working environment and regardless of what is needed to address the problem it should be sorted out. As for the obvious sniping by those at the sharp end toward those in the cabin, and vice versa, it seems to an old bugger like me to be childish crap which does nothing to enhance the operation.

[mrpaxing]

control the cabins from the FAP but it is the galleys(especially the rear galley which is a problem). there has been a minor mod done but it is not enough. easy solution-bring back the cardigans.:ok:

[DEFCON4]

I just want to work in a comfortable environment and provide the same for the passengers
I am not interested in the condescending advice from some pompous pratt who dwells in the sandpit and is totally absorbed in his own micro managing self importance
The issues are cold galleys at doors 2 and 4 on the A330 and the stability of temperature throughout the cabin.
Passengers continually complain about the coldness.Qantas only provides a limited number of extra blankets.
Set the temperature to 24 and it is either too hot or too cold.The true temperature in the cabin is not indicative of that displayed on the FAP.It can be 26 in the Cabin..too hot...and it is still freezing in the galleys.
There appears to a fault that is common to all Qantas A330.
I live on these things.Have spoken to the pilots who by their own admission have limited input.
It requires constant monitoring and is never right.I continously walk through the cabin monitoring the temperature and taking note of passengers wearing not only a blanket but also a sweater.I alter the temperature to create a comfortable evironment.It doesnt stay stable for long.Flt level changes also seem to have an impact.
I dont know what the answer is and neither apparently does engineering.
In the meantime we can now rug up
A380 Driver save your sarcasm and unimaginative infantile commentary for some low bar where the non english speaking girls are impressed ...NOT.

[Little_Red_Hat]

Bring back the :mad: cardigans and half the problem is solved. I agree the FAP temp shown is never what it actually is in the cabin. No aircraft I've flown on has had such a variation in temp in different cabin zones. J class are too hot, Y between doors 3 & 4 are freezing their arses off, you can't win!

After awhile of futilely playing with the temp controls on the FAp we give up calling the guys at the front because they get just as sick of adjusting the bloody thing as we do!! I recall at one point extra blankets were being loaded for pax sat at Doors 3 exit rows, as they were too cold even with temp at max.

The suggestion of turning chillers off after themeal service sounds good in theory but I didn't think we were permitted to do that as we are still using items out of carts until right before landing. Once chillers have been off for an hour we can't use the cart contents. Unless of course it's bottled water/whatever but no-one wants room temp water & juice for the arrival service do they??

As I see it, easiest solution for all, give us cardigans. EK have them, Etihad have them, DJ have jumpers, how come we don't have anything ' in between' a blouse and a jacket? No wonder everyone is always off sick with colds/coughs/flu.

[lowerlobe]

Let's try and stay on the same page here and not get involved with personalities....

A380-800 driver...I can't comment on EK 330's but we all know that different airlines use different galleys and they don't come from the same company...

Perhaps QF's galleys have different configurations and so on....but you can take it as a fact that QF's galleys on the 200 and 300's are cold and that doesn't begin to describe the temp.As Defcon said the Cabin Temp is also anything but stable and cruising alt seems to play around in the equation some where...

To me it doesn't matter one iota who controls the temp and perhaps it keeps the drivers awake at night when the phone calls persist from Cabin Crew but if I were tech crew I would be happy to leave it to the crew dealing with the pax and the cabin...unless of course it was ridiculously low or high and that would indicate yet another problem of a more serious nature...

As has been said all it would take to fix is the simple cardigan.....but finding next weeks lotto numbers would be easier to arrange.:E

[Capt Fathom]

Has anyone thought to document some hard evidence...?

Like a thermometer and a camera.

Send it off to your union, safety department, CASA, ATSB. Everyone really. Not much point complaining here!

[blackguard]

Surveys,documentation and the Association together with OH and S are all involved.
Maybe a result soon

[Bad Hat Harry]

You mean libel
Slander is oral defamation whereas libel is written
You accuse others of getting their facts wrong.
Try first to get yours right

[Back Seat Driver]

I would venture that the complaints of, too hot and too cold by the pax are more than likely referenced to the air exiting the individual air vents (which heat up and cool down, by the addition of, or restriction of, the trim air, trying to stabilize the area temp) rather than the ambient cabin temperature. As Defcon says (and I'm assuming you're a CSM or CSS) I alter the temperature to create a comfortable environment then you would cause the trim air temperature to vary wildy in a vain attempt to alter the ambient cabin temp. Better off to alter the fap a little, and forget for an hour or so.
And bye the bye Defcon, your "QF computer generated fuel dump, with #3 engine shutdown", in the A380 locked thread was simply a #3 fuel feed tank, quantity totaliser fault, that would not allow the tank to be re-fueled prior to departure. The fact that you make unsubstantiated farcical claims in the manner that you did in a public forum shows that you are mischievous and irresponsible, and have no idea what you are talking about.

[blackguard]

If you re read Defcons post the fuel dump part was not related to last nights QF 31.
Why would a fuel dump occur on the ground?
What would be the purpose of such a "mischievious" post
The matter is done and dusted.
You have never made an erroneous post?
Be a little magnanimous with your infinite wisdom and knowledge
You will find that it was most likely my post,
Take your venom out on me

[carpe_jugulum]

Bugger, just got home from flying my boeing - with a wonderfully temperate cabin - and nearly dropped my glass of red reading this highly amusing thread about you poor creatures.
What a dreadful state of affairs that such an advanced manufacturer can't even get a temp controller to work properly.....
bloody frogs..

I won't even mention that pithy little bon mot about 'if it ain't boeing, I ain't going'. That would be going too far. ahem.:E

Hope you all get it sorted out - get a decent uniform with jumpers whilst you're at it.

now, where is that bloody bottle..

[argusmoon]

It all gets a little ridiculous in here sometimes.
Oh well men will be boys

[Little_Red_Hat]

BSB, there are a few of us smart enough to go through the cabin and close unused vents (or those at unoccupied seats) to try to help the temp before we go calling you guys up front.

However, it seems this technique is not well known as the last time I went through the cabin closing extraneous vents one of the other crew asked what on earth I was doing!! :p So, that system only works if crew know to do it.

Honestly, on something as big as the 330 I haven't noticed it making much of a difference to the cabin temp, however the ' placebo effect' it has on the concerned pax is quite pronounced! :E

Works quite well on the 737 though, in case you were wondering.

[Ka.Boom]

From the legislative jurisdiction of South Australia as posted by A380 from in the Middle East.
It is not possible to slander or libel a nom de plume.
A nom de plume carries no reputation to besmirch or malign.
Try suing for slander or libel under these circumstances and you would be laughed out of court irrespective of the jurisdiction.
You have attacked three posters so far.One because of his nationality.
So you are nothing but a bully from South Australia living in the Middle East who drives a plane for a living
Or so you would have us believe.PPrune is after all an anonymous public forum where very little is verifiable unless you use your real identity.
Sorry about the thread drift but is all this unpleasantry really necessary.?
Surely there are more important global matters to discuss.