What are the legal requirements to carry 406 MHz ELT.

[Frank Arouet]

Is this for real or mis-information?

It would appear if correct, one can't fly in the training area, do circuits or fly anywhere outside of a designated remote area without one.

"xxxx and CASA have been working on a 2 month exemption for 406 MHz carriage (mandatory 1/2/09) for those having trouble getting one due to the market rush around Jan/Feb.

This should allow one other local manufacturer to get to market.

I hope to see the exemption signed and publicised this week.

No 406 = no fly legal at present. This exemption will be valuable for those expecting a ramp check at or on the way to Av Airshow".

[triadic]

You are correct... but you can do circuits and training area stuff within 50nm of departure without one.
I believe there is a supply problem but unsure what is being done about it.
An exemption would be nice until supplies come good.


2.4 Prior to these amendments, CAR 252A required the carriage of a 121.5 MHz
ELT on all aircraft operating beyond 50NM of its departure point, except if the flight
was engaged in agricultural operations, associated with the installation/repair of an ELT,
or if the aircraft was an exempted aircraft. An exempted aircraft was defined as:
• a high capacity regular public transport aircraft [38+ seats or >4,200kg payload]
• a high capacity charter aircraft [38+ seats or >4,200kg payload]
• a single seat aircraft
• a turbo-jet powered aircraft
• a balloon
• an airship
• a glider

[Frank Arouet]

Why would CASA consider an exemption while another Aussie manufacturer gets his ducks in a row. Everyone has been given more time than necessary to get onto this.

This should allow one other local manufacturer to get to market

And why would someone arriving from Geelong get excited and expect a ramp check based on this.

[Joker 10]

The rag hat minister for self aggrandisment over at the little aeroplane club is at it again.

Bulk misinformation.

CASA exempting Charter operators ?? I would be amazed if that happens an potentially puts paying passengers at risk.

CASA ramp checking private operators on the way to Avalon, mysterious rubbish they have better things to do.

[gupta]

By crikey Joker you are singing an old tune there, must have been a real trojan effort.

Better get your facts right old son, you claim to have the inside line.

toodle pip!

[PlankBlender]

..was in a pilot shop at a major GAAP aerodrome today, their shelves were well-stocked..

[Clearedtoreenter]

Plankbender is right. I got one today from a marine supplier, who had none last week but seems to have plenty of the aussie GME variety now.

Does anyone know what is in the technology that makes them so expensive? (circa $700 or more depending on the make for the GPS type) It also seems the batteries last about 6 years but are not user replaceable and will cost a heap to get the manufacturer to replace, virtually making it a throw away item...

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

My MT400 notes say to return your unit to GME,
PRIOR to reaching the battery expiry date as shown on the body of the unit,
'for service'.....

I will ring a mate at GME tomorrow and find out how much to replace the battery.

Will advise.....

Cheers:ok::ok:

Should NOT think it would be a 'throw away item'....

p.s. I paid around $400 from a MARINE dealer approx 12/18 months ago.....
Shop around.:):)

[Frank Arouet]

"Unfortunately, it has become apparent that demand may have
outstripped supply with the introduction of the new 406 MHz distress
beacons. CASA is currently considering a general exemption for a short
period of time, but this is likely to come with additional safety
requirements relating to the submission of a flight plan or flight
note with SARTIME, advice to air traffic services of any deviation
from the flight plan/flight note, and a requirement to continue to
carry a 121.5 beacon. You should check CASA’s website for advice of
this potential general exemption and any additional requirements".

The perceived lack of beacons requires a potential exemption but will require what looks like going back to full reporting and although everything is reported to be turned off, you still need to carry 121.5 beacons.

It is said 121.5 is needed for homing and is an International distress frequency.

So to those that threw them away, tough titties.

[KRviator]

Does anyone know what is in the technology that makes them so expensive?I believe it is the satellite uplink portion, plus the extra for those that are fitted with GPS.

By having a simple radio beacon (121.5) they are very basic, but when you start talking about built-in GPS and a dedicated satellite uplink, things can get very expensive, very quickly...

[Pole Vaulter]

There certainly has been a severe shortage of the GME unit with the built in GPS but they advised should be avail about now. RRP jumped from $649 to $830 when the A$ collapsed. I asked GME why the huge increase and was advised the components were imported and hence the rise. All EPIRBS need to be returned to factory for battery replacements as the tuning has to be checked to make sure they are still on frequency. That also applied to the recently deleted ones.

[Chief Erwin]

You can fly for 90 days without ELT if it is out getting fixed.
MR is to be endoresed.
Its in the fine print some where either in 252 or 20.18.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

:eek:G'Day 'Cleared...' et al,

I stand corrected! 'Tis indeed almost a throw away item.

I rang GME SY to check on what I had been told locally, and they have just quoted me around $179 to have the batteries refitted at end of life.

When I queried why SO much? The response was that 'We completely refurbish the item', when pressed as to what was 'refurbished' the man replied, 'The whole thing'.....

So, essentially, it is a throw away item with a replacement cost of around $180, at today's prices......From GME SY, 029 879 8888 :eek:

p.s. I forgot to ask if they retain the casing, so that your 'sticker' of rego from AMSA is still ok - or do we then apply for another...? :ugh:

Cheers:ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

It would be interesting to know what proportion of 121.5 MHz beacon activations were first detected by a satellite and notified to AusSAR.

I suspect it would be very low, with most being detected by aircraft routinely monitoring 121.5 (RPT?) and reporting any beacons to ATC. You don't have to do much flying in this country to find yourself being asked by ATC to help track down a possible beacon activation. Happens to me a couple of time a year.

That being the case, I think we are being sold a pup about the satellites being turned off - and therefore our 121.5 beacons being of no further value.

The one down the back of the Bo can just sit there at least until the battery is due for replacement!

Dr :8

PS: ...... and before you start jumping on me, I do carry a 406MHz/GPS beacon! Bought it a year ago for about $600. Yeah, that makes 6 x GPSs in the Bo !!!!!!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

TWO memorable ones come to mind.....

- BY AusSAR - was in a boat being towed behind a 'cruiser' from York to Freo.
Couldn't quite figure out why the then ambiguous signals seemed to be changing location between sat. passes....seems that guy threw the item into the boat at the last minute and the silly thing activated.

- By aircraft - a PN68 flying between KU & HLC, called us to report said beacon. Said it was very strong. We asked the usual questions re signal strength, detune radio etc, and it continued......very strong.......ALL the way with him to HLC......YEP! You guessed it.

I miss those days.... only sometimes.:ok::ok:

[KRviator]

You don't have to do much flying in this country to find yourself being asked by ATC to help track down a possible beacon activation. Happens to me a couple of time a year.You don't even have to be airborne to have that happen.

A few years ago when I was a groundie with 173 Sqn at Oakey, I got a call one Saturday night to make sure a beacon going off on base wasn't coming from one of our Kingairs...

It wasn't, but by using an old handheld VHF, I was able to track it down to a box of no less than a dozen old survival radios that had been thrown out back of the base warehouse. Damn Q-ies...:ugh:

= = =

As for the old 121.5 beacons, if you have one, it'll still be of use, just not able to be detected by passing satellites, so you're entrusting your survival to receipt of the signal by a passing aircraft that happens to be monitoring 121.5.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

OK, while we are in story-telling mode, during my uNZud phase the CAA (or whatever they are called in NZ) went on the warpath over accidental beacon activations and the unnecessary waste of time, money and resources they cause. We were all threatened with fates worse than death if we were the cause of a spurious activation.

Not long afterwards a beacon was reported in the Wellington area - full search activated with several search aircraft including helicopters.

The beacon was eventually tracked to a cupboard in the CAA Head Office in downtown Wellington !!!!!!!!

We never did hear if CAA prosecuted themselves!

Dr :8

[VH-XXX]

Contrary to what was posted here a few weeks ago you would be very unwise to destroy or decommission your old 121.5 beacon!

As stated earlier, it's still 100% effective as a non-satellite locater beacon and if you have a new beacon in your aircraft and carry your portable with you, you're still going to get good results, especially if your aircraft one doesn't go off. There have been many impacts of late where the fixed beacon hasn't gone off, so no harm in using your 121.5.

Remember too that you don't have to buy the GPS model, you can still get the satellite & 121.5 model, but remember that they all have the coded registration.

Having a beacon is unfortunately not an insurance policy and your beacon should be used in conjunction with flight following, SAR times and general common sense in telling someone where you are going!

[Led Zep]

Hang on, my PLB (obviously not a fixed unit) has both 406MHz , GPS and 121.5MHz homing. What is the problem? :confused: Surely fixed 406 beacons have not done away with homing?

As an aiside, I notice prices are $200+ more than what I paid for mine over 18 months ago. +1 for not waiting until the last minute. :ok: :ok: :}

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

G'Day ZEP,

Don't think so...
They transmit on 406 to the sat. and 121.5 for the homing function - at least the GME MT400 does.
i.e. Both freqs....:ok::ok:

Cheers

[Sunfish]

Buy a GME PLB with GPS and register the ^^^^en thing. Aussar will send you a sticker for your plb. The registration page has four + "uses" for the unit as in:

1. AIrcraft.

2. Boat

3. 4wd

4. Bushwalking, etc.

Fer fecks sake if you don't register it and use it responsibly the system will collapse under the weight of false alarms.

Just ask the Aussar guys at YMAV in Two weeks!

[triadic]

As for the old 121.5 beacons, if you have one, it'll still be of use, just not able to be detected by passing satellites, so you're entrusting your survival to receipt of the signal by a passing aircraft that happens to be monitoring 121.5.

If you look at what Canada and the USA have done and done some reading you will note that 121.5 beacons are still picked up by the sat's BUT only if the responsible authority seeks that service.

In the Oz case it seems that ASMA have elected to go with the recommended change over date and have/are un-subcribing to the receipt of 121.5 data. The Canadians have extended the requirement there for ~2 years and the US have no published data (as yet?). A 3 or 4 month extension (for aircraft) in Oz is in the system somewhere I am told.

Bottom line is that I understand the sat's still are capable of reception on 121.5 and even the latest sats have that capability. It is up to the authority on the ground to source that info or not. In Oz they have not... but then I am told that in an emergency they can (not published of course....)

Remember too, the major market is marine, not aviation.

Glad to be corrected by someone closer to the bone!!