Qantas 556

[Kickatinalong]

What was going on last night when the pilot of the above entered a PRD area and was made to squark 7700 and broadcast on 121.5 he was in the area for quite some time whilst live firing going on. Is he/they going to get shafted like we would if we did the same thing even the ATC told him that ATC couldn't be sure of his safety and I assume his Pax as well. Or is it one law for them and another for us?
Kickatinalong:=:=:=

[framer]

Who is 'us' ? VB?

[Kickatinalong]

VB I wish, not smart enough - only GA
Kicka.

[topdrop]

From what I heard, they went in to avoid TS and only just in for a short while - probably in the buffer area of any firing -so unlikely to get hit. Captain weighed up the relative risks and made his decision accordingly.
He'll get a please explain from CASA same as you would.

[Capt Fathom]

The military don't like to share, and ATC don't always have the means to coordinate for you.

You would think that on days when storms are prevalent, they would release some airspace for diverting aircraft as a matter of course, rather than on a case by case basis!

They probably had to request an airways clearance to reenter controlled airspace! :uhoh:

[Atlas Shrugged]

What was going on last night when the pilot of the above entered a PRD area and was made to squark 7700 and broadcast on 121.5 he was in the area for quite some time whilst live firing going on.

Who cares. NCD. .....Operational reasons.

Same level of interest as the car that got a flat tyre at the end of my street last night.

Move on...

[Wally Mk2]

'AS' did you call the RACV for the guy? You know you being obviously friendly & all!!!:E




Wmk2

[Atlas Shrugged]

GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

[Icarus53]

I don't have any specific knowledge of this incident, but if we are talking about military live firing, then I would not be so glib to suggest that this is a non-event. I do not direct my comments at the crew in this incident (as I don't know their circumstances), but rather at anyone who thinks breeching airspace designated for military live firing might form part of a well-reasoned and informed operational plan.

My credentials: In my past life, I was in charge of planning and designating military range space for the purpose of indirect firing practices. In fact for several years, I was in charge of all Army training on how to produce indirect fire range traces and determine airspace requirements for those activities. In fact if the danger area for an indirect firing practice extends higher than about 8000', it is a near certainty that it was produced by me, checked by me, or produced by somebody certified by me.

probably in the buffer area of any firing -so unlikely to get hit.

Who cares. NCD. .....Operational reasons.

Having spent a lot of time de-conflicting indirect fire from RAAF fighter aircraft engaged in ground attack, I can assure you that the "big sky small bomb" theory doesn't hold much weight with professional pilots who routinely conduct operations with considerably higher risk levels that your average RPT flight. If guys who are trained and paid to hang explosives off their wings wouldn't do it, what makes you think that Joe Public has signed up for the risk? :suspect:

Yes, in constructing a firing trace there are many buffers used to account for the known variations from a predicted trajectory (zone, ricochet, blast and fragmentation etc.). I doubt very much whether anybody else on here understands much about the scale of these factors and would therefore be able to make a well-reasoned operational decision on the risk involved in entering the particular airspace.

For example, you may be basing you decision on a perceived likelihood that the projectile will strike the aircraft. Certain practices however involve shells utilising doppler radar to burst within a certain proximity of a target. There is a certain degree of evidence to suggest that these shells can be activated by other forms of radar, or by proximity to cloud formations. I can assure you that the idea of sharing airspace with a 45kg airburst round is not something I would do during anything approximating normal operations.

Bottom line people - unless you happen to have a huge amount of background knowledge on the design of a particular PRD airspace, it's a no-go. I suspect that if you had that information, you would be treating it as such anyway. Diverting your aircraft for "operational reasons" suggests a certain degree of risk assessment - something you cannot effectively do without solid information on the actual risks involved.