Sydney Training

[michael12g]

G'day, every one.

I’m keen on getting my CPL.
Can any one recommend a reputable flying school in the Sydney area? (preferably Bankstown)
I’m having a hard time choosing... is it true when they say
“the school you graduate from determines job prospects”?
Do employers prefer one school over another?
Right now Bassair seems alright.

Thanks Fellas.
Michael.

[coke drinker]

Again, do a search, but just to settle one thing, that is not an accurate representation of Basair.

[SydneyAeros]

Michael

Give Clamback & Hennesey a look as well. I'm doing my Instrument Rating and Instructor Rating with them and they great people - definitely not a sausage factory. Aircraft are all good reliable Cherokees.

There is also the possiblity of going along for exeprience on a ferry flight.

Worth a look.

[b_sta]

Whitworth (BK), Schofields (BK), PFS (BK), Curtis (CN) are the names that always come up.

[Fonz121]

avoid Basair and Aerospace like the plague. I concur with the names above.

[Atlas Shrugged]

http://www.geocities.com/evo76/search-button-for-dummies.jpg

[palindrome]

Flight training at Camden is a little more expensive than the other schools in Bankstown but they do tend to maintain their aircraft better. It's your call.

Personally I don't find flying in Camden very appealing with the amount of bullying that seems to go on in the circuit.

[Power]

check out curtis aviation out at camden, top blokes and tailwheel fun :P

[Andy05]

I started my training at Basair and I have my the first 9 flights of my log book with 9 different instructors, I was younger and I was hoping things would get better I'm happy I moved and I would suggest you look very carefully at the school and any students that have trained there. I have a good mate that went to aerospace and after 12 months of full time training had only completed his GFPT as they had to many students and booking an aircraft for a Nav was a nightmare. You are going to be parting with a large sum of money so be very careful, I found that the smaller schools you get more attention and you become good friends with your instructors which isimportant when you will be spending alot of time sitting next to each other.
Good luck with your decision.;)

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Hi Michael,

Id like to put another hand up and say Curtis is an unbelievable flying school. From what i say below and the raps I give youd think i work for them or have some reason for praising them but it is just purely the truth- they are what I consider probably the only decent school within the sydney basin and ive trained with all the like- aerospace, schoies etc etc.


Curtis Chief Pilot Rob Marshall is the owner and runs the flying school in a relaxed atmosphere way which is such a refreshing experience compared to the mess at bankstown.

I suggest you make an appointment with him to discuss flying there- I did so and he broke down all the costs for me to get from now (I have my PPL) right through to CPL and MECIR.

He broke down hourly rates and was extremely practical- ie hour building on warriors then instrument rating on 182 and eventually twin.

The planes are kept in mint condition with most of the cessnas only a few years old and glass cockpit. The people are lovely, the location is nowhere near as busy and full of foreigners like Bankstown and you will actually feel like an individual rather than a number or sausage in a production factory.

As well curtis have long flyaways around Australia which help build experience and are alot of fun.

Anyways this is just my opinion- for any more info just PM me

Regards,

Matt

[GADRIVR]

OK.....
1. Avoid ANY of the larger schools at YSBK. The facts are that they have sub standard training, sub standard instructors, aircraft not available and yes they DO have far too many foreign students. You will NOT be looked after.
2. STOL_king....you are sound like a business owner or a young instructor with no idea...either way...you are off the mark.
3. Personally don't have a lot of time for Marshall....BUT....all one ever seems to hear is good things from his customers once he left AFTS. He does have a reputation as being a stickler for standards and the people I have flown with over the years that were trained by him are generally speaking quite good.
4. Don't go listening to any young snot nosed instructor about where you'll get in the industry based on where you trained. I'd recommend you mosey on down to Schofields and have a quiet chat with the senior guys there. The majority have worked around the field and are best placed to give you unbiased advice. There are also plenty of people around there that are working in the industry in a commercial sense...you know...REAL commercial pilots!!! You'll get introduced to them and again, you'll get a better indication on whats happening in the Sydney basin.
Any probs, PM me.
Cheers.

[kreebeedee]

Hi there Palindrome,

I fly at CN, at Curtis, and am just curious to hear you talk of bullying in the circuit....care to expand?

P.S am pretty sure none of the aforementioned bullying comes from Curtis students :)

[FlyCessna]

kreebeedee its not the curtis students bullying people, its "the curtis instructor"...maaaaaaaaaaayte..... :E

[palindrome]

P.S am pretty sure none of the aforementioned bullying comes from Curtis students

Yes you're right. Not the students but the grumpy CFI that acts like he owns the airport.

[FlyCessna]

Im sure if you asked him, he'd tell you he DID own the airport :E

(thats of course after you were instructed to wait for the beep)

[das Uber Soldat]

OK.....
1. Avoid ANY of the larger schools at YSBK. The facts are that they have sub standard training, sub standard instructors, aircraft not available and yes they DO have far too many foreign students. You will NOT be looked after.
2. STOL_king....you are sound like a business owner or a young instructor with no idea...either way...you are off the mark.
3. Personally don't have a lot of time for Marshall....BUT....all one ever seems to hear is good things from his customers once he left AFTS. He does have a reputation as being a stickler for standards and the people I have flown with over the years that were trained by him are generally speaking quite good.
4. Don't go listening to any young snot nosed instructor about where you'll get in the industry based on where you trained. I'd recommend you mosey on down to Schofields and have a quiet chat with the senior guys there. The majority have worked around the field and are best placed to give you unbiased advice. There are also plenty of people around there that are working in the industry in a commercial sense...you know...REAL commercial pilots!!! You'll get introduced to them and again, you'll get a better indication on whats happening in the Sydney basin.
Any probs, PM me.
Cheers. Granted the bigger schools have their fair share are poor instructors, but don't write off everyone who works there. Some of the best instructors I have met over the last 10 years have worked for the larger schools, have been as professional as anyone and known their stuff better than most.

Further to that, don't automatically link experience in the industry with competency in the field of Instructing. Some of the WORST instructors I have ever met in the last 10 years have had years of industry experience, from 20 years in the Airlines to 15 years in the RFDS.

Judge an instructor not by how many mighty chieftain hours he/she has, but by how much INSTRUCTING experience that person has, how much actual ability they posses to fly and teach and how much drive they have to be professional in all areas of your training. They could be an experienced charter pilot, but they could also be a 'snotty nosed, fake commercial pilot' instructor that you hold in such misguided contempt.

You just don't know.

TID EDIT: You'd have a more believable argument if you left out the name calling.

[GADRIVR]

Darling Uber Soldat,
1. Nothing to do with former Chief Pilots or indeed the CFI and we can guess the reasons for that....you've obviously been around YSBK long enough.. Facts are that there a few blokes and a couple of girlies around who frequent the club, have been in the industry for years, are acknowledged as good operators and a couple have instructors ratings.
2. I didn't directly link industry experience with ability as an instructor however the point I was making is this. A young instructor with barely 300 hours TT is in NO position to be giving advice on how to get ahead in the industry or indeed operate an aircraft in a commercial sense when they can barely fly themselves. However there a few instructors at or who were at Schoies that HAVE been in the real world, HAVE flown regional airliners, have flown chieftains and quite a few other types on top of that. THAT was my point. Take the advice from somebody who HAS done it....not some kid who hasn't.
3. A large majority of young pilots who are (a) instructors or (b) students who are up for a check ride of some sort that I have performed over the last few years either in a school or out in the real world that have trained/worked at a sausage factory in the basin...unfortunately don't come up to standard..frequently.
The amount of reasoning as to WHY this is occurring in the sausage factories is open to a lot of speculation however it will come down to these few reasons.
(a) lack of supervision/training of young instructors
(b) a distinct lack of commercial acumen and of ihonesty and integrity.
(c) a quite definite lack of respect for their employees due to being around the industry far too long and having it their own way for far too long (AFAP where are you??!!)
As for your comments re: me being an idiot, having a condescending attitude towards young instructors, etc etc etc.....must of touched a nerve eh my friend?. If you look carefully at my post and thence compare to your school girl rantings above.....blind Freddy could see theres no correllation...except of course in your head!:E
I'll finish with this. If you want quality training that is not overpriced, with experienced dedicated instructors across the board,possessed by owners who are not chasing the foreign dollar and students flying aircraft that are safe ,reliable and well maintained as well as in good shape...avoid the sausage factories.
You have a nice day sweety:ok:
PS....after close to 20 years in this business...believe me I DO know!!

[das Uber Soldat]

Darling Uber Soldat,
1. Nothing to do with former Chief Pilots or indeed the CFI and we can guess the reasons for that....you've obviously been around YSBK long enough.. Facts are that there a few blokes and a couple of girlies around who frequent the club, have been in the industry for years, are acknowledged as good operators and a couple have instructors ratings.
I wouldn't disagree with that

2. I didn't directly link industry experience with ability as an instructor however the point I was making is this. A young instructor with barely 300 hours TT is in NO position to be giving advice on how to get ahead in the industry or indeed operate an aircraft in a commercial sense when they can barely fly themselves. However there a few instructors at or who were at Schoies that HAVE been in the real world, HAVE flown regional airliners, have flown chieftains and quite a few other types on top of that. THAT was my point. Take the advice from somebody who HAS done it....not some kid who hasn't.
I don't disagree with that either, though schoies isn't the only place that boasts people who have years of Industry experience.

3. A large majority of young pilots who are (a) instructors or (b) students who are up for a check ride of some sort that I have performed over the last few years either in a school or out in the real world that have trained/worked at a sausage factory in the basin...unfortunately don't come up to standard..frequently.
I believe you

The amount of reasoning as to WHY this is occurring in the sausage factories is open to a lot of speculation however it will come down to these few reasons.
(a) lack of supervision/training of young instructors
(b) a distinct lack of commercial acumen and of ihonesty and integrity.
(c) a quite definite lack of respect for their employees due to being around the industry far too long and having it their own way for far too long (AFAP where are you??!!)
Ok, no problems there either

As for your comments re: me being an idiot, having a condescending attitude towards young instructors, etc etc etc.....must of touched a nerve eh my friend?
It did, I don't think anyone likes being labeled as sub standard by someone who has never met them and knows nothing about them. You don't think that's reasonable?

. If you look carefully at my post and thence compare to your school girl rantings above.....blind Freddy could see theres no correllation...except of course in your head!http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif
I'm not sure what a 'correllation' is, but assuming you mean correlation, I disagree. You quite clearly, without exception, relate those working in bigger flying schools as being substandard. I can quote it back to you if you like. I disagree with this. It is a sweeping generalisation and it is demonstratively incorrect.

I'll finish with this. If you want quality training that is not overpriced, with experienced dedicated instructors across the board,possessed by owners who are not chasing the foreign dollar and students flying aircraft that are safe ,reliable and well maintained as well as in good shape...avoid the sausage factories.
Again, I disagree. You may have had some bad experiences, and you may even have a quantifiable, measurable difference in candidate on average between a school such as Curtis and a sausage factory. But please don't suggest that everyone working in a bigger school is incompetent or below standard. This is not correct or even close to. There are many talented people working within these organisations.

You have a nice day sweetyhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
I will, thanks.
PS....after close to 20 years in this business...believe me I DO know!!
Faulty syllogism I'm afraid.
So in summary if thats a little hard to follow. Recommend the smaller schools if you like. Assert that you will get better training even, I don't mind. But please don't put down people you have never met or had anything to do with as incompetent or sub standard. This is incorrect and insulting.

Thanks.

[GADRIVR]

Das Uber Soldat.....you know I went to all the trouble to give a line by line rebuff of your postings and wouldn't you know it.....computer foul up. Gads...I was there for AGES!!!
Ah well...here's the shortened version.
1. I'm right and you're wrong.....essentially!
2.Don't ever pick a fight online and then go to the trouble of editing your original post.....you've taken all the fun out of it!
3. If I've offended any young instructors at YSBK.....tough titties!
4. Stop using strange words that I don't understand...I hate that!

A young person posted a question wanting to know which school to go to in YSBK. I recommended none of the sausage factories....for good reason!

(a) Which CFI had their testing priviliges revoked for a time due to...how should we say it...not too many failures??!!
(b) Which school was audited by CASA and found to be severely lacking in the area of instructor accountability/training/mentoring?
(c) Which school/schools have a history of breaking aeroplanes left right and centre?
(d) Which schools CFI left (an individual of some distinction I might add) to go onto bigger and better things (at YSBK funnily enough) citing the schools owners and their lack of ethics and honesty as a major contributing factor behind leaving?
(e) Which school recently had to sack instructors for positive drug tests amongst other things?
(f) Which school/schools have been bagged sensless on these forums for not doing the right thing by their students?
The list of questions as above could go on for donkeys ages but the short answer however goes something like this.......some or all of the bloody sausage factories in the Sydney Basin!!!!! QED.
Now Uber Soldat darling......if you want to get into a point scoring competion...I will and can.
You may be....(and I bet you are, having watched your posts over the last few years) a decent sort of individual that I would have work for me. Facts are though, that the majority of schools don't come up to standard in the basin and that is FACT my friend. Ask Roger Weekes and his cohorts!
You need to grow up a little bit and start getting a little hard line and not be so precious. There's no good blokes after a fatal accident.
Don't stop the abuse though......we love it.
Night darling:E

[rodmiller]

Sydney Aviation College,

Instructor - Conrado C. Very good teacher/instructor.

Cant go wrong

[das Uber Soldat]

Ok GADRIVR, I think we're done attempting any kind of serious debate after that pearler of a reply. :ok:

Take care. :)

[GADRIVR]

Now stop that......I go looking for a brawl and what do I get?......civility.
I tell you lad....you're bringing down the whole tone of this website with that sort of posting!:=:E