Rand Airport - in the news again

[PhoenixDC]

Plane crashes in Joburg 21/02/2009 19:17 - (SA)
Johannesburg - A pilot was injured when a light aircraft he was flying crashed in Germiston on Saturday, Netcare 911 said.
Spokesperson Nick Dollman said the man who was alone in the plane sustained minor injuries when he experienced problems while landing his aircraft at Rand Airport at about 17:00.
"Fire fighters who were first at the scene managed to extinguish the fire from the wreckage.
"Advanced life support paramedics who attended to him said he was in a stable condition," said Dollman.
The Civil Aviation Authority was not immediately available for comment.

[jimmythegong]

Those fences can be a problem at Rand.......

[I.R.PIRATE]

Not the fences Jimmy, its the attitude.

F@#$%$%^ heros.

When will the rand plonkers realise that they are not pioneers, and that everything they can possibly want to do in an aircraft has already been done.

Wonder if the "low-flat" approach was preceded by an" initial and break?":ugh::ugh::ugh:

See the Rand monkeys throwing all their bananas out of the cot on avcom cause someone dared to question the AUTHORITAHHH of one of the heros.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Ah yearse!
Them stories of the yesteryear at the jolly Transvaal Aviation Club where an aircraft becomes an 'aerie' and somer, 'let's have another Lion' or is it Castle these days?

[Doodlebug2]

...No, Windhoek daft,:E more like it!

[Fuzzy Lager]

My but they do take themselves seriously.

Would be nice if they could stay out of the news for a day or two, they haven't helped the publics perception of GA of late.

[LittleMo]

Before the time honoured mudslinging begins, does anyone know what ACTUALLY happened?

[I.R.PIRATE]

Eye witness ( also a pilot) said:

Came in low and flat for rwy 29, and ripped the landing gear off on the fence.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Or possible that it was the roof of the TAC?

[Bosotter]

I recently flew with someone who does this "low and flat approach". Just one question: Why do people do it? i.e. What causes them to change to this type of approach from what they have been taught?:confused:

Upon asking him why he does his approaches like this he said: Because it works for me.:eek:
Besides the fact that it is VERY unsafe, these approaches just don't 'feel' safe.:= (I use the word "feel", because I was clipping square washers with round holes the last half mile of the approach!!!:uhoh:)
The fact that there were PAPI's installed and operational at this airfield, didn't cause this particular pilot to change his approach!
The worst part is that he doesn't "exactly" know what PAPI's are for!:eek:

By the way, he almost took out the runway end lights - NOT FUN!!!

[Der absolute Hammer]

Low and flat approaches are msotly used for short field landings or grass strip approaches where the surface is suspect? Also, low and flat approaches presumes slow speed, dragging the aircraft in?
If that is so then I can think only that these pilots have not been taught to fly at airfields where there is sufficient runway to fly a visual 3' approach path; or that they have not the flexibility or training to adjust their flying technique to the conditions in which they find themselves and that could be serious bad news.

[PhoenixDC]

Hammer, I disagree with you.
A flat approach does not lead to a shorter landing, as a standard 3o approach will give a shorter landing roll, if the pilot has been taught the correct procedure. Dragging it in at low speed and low level with a high power setting, is only going to leave him with few ideas should the engine hiccup, or a down draft occur. Because of the high power required, the touch down usually occurs further down the runway than a conventional approach.

[flux]

Absolutely correct! Flat app does not equal short field landing!

[PhoenixDC]

Point is that a STOL aircraft is an advanced flight regime for the average pilot, and therefore he should be taught the technique at the time of conversion.
As for flaps, they were originally called “Landing Flaps” and should be used on every landing, as the folks who designed the aircraft intended.
If the aircraft does not have flaps, then the sideslip technique should have been taught, once more at time of conversion. Most flapless aircraft are “Tail Draggers” which should have also brought to the attention of the pilot, that rudders can sometimes be more than mere footrests.
Having said all that, I have seen instructors doing “Jesus Creepers” in heavy metal jets in central Africa, in the belief that they are showing how a short field landing is accomplished!

[TXaviator]

or you can you know...land without flaps in a light aircraft, and still maintain a decent approach angle by correctly managing your power and trim settings.

christ. whats all the arguing about?

[Der absolute Hammer]

Yes, I see one asumption I made. This was that a 3' slop approach presumes a landing point 1.000ft in to the runway. Of course it does not. You can use the d/w theshold as your 3' slope aiming point..but that does not sound like a pleasant perspective. I was never saying that a wrong drag curve approach should be taught to beginners. It is a talented approach to do correctly and has not much room for pilot error. That's it I think.

[PhoenixDC]

TX – no arguing intended. I do feel however, that the thread may be showing up deficiencies in current flight training.
This may explain why Rand Airport has often been in the news lately, and the TV exposé.

[Hot Shots]

It sounds like flat approaches are an image thing at Rand. I totally agree that flat approaches are not at all necessary there. As PhoenixDC said, a flat approach does not equal a shorter landing roll, quite the opposite. If you are taught the proper way, maybe then. Also, as someone mentioned, if you have to drag it in, is it worth it to go in? How much payload can you then take out again? A couple of years back I had to take a King Air into Rand. We were on the normal slope at the normal speed and did not even have to climb on the brakes and cook the engines in reverse to stop. They took a B747 in there for :mad: sake. It was empty and probably quite striped, but it still ways more than your average PC going into Rand.

[PhoenixDC]

It would be interesting to know what approach path was used by the B747?
Otherwise, landing with the park brake on will give you an interesting short landing.