Police ASU pilot and observer wings.

[Polwings]

Good morning Gentlemen,
Trying to find out if there is some kind of policy on design of wings for police air units as designs seem to differ widely from unit to unit.Is design governed by the unit,the company providing pilots or down to the individual.
I am not aircrew just a humble collector but the variations in designs intrigue me.

Thanks,
Les.

[Art of flight]

Just each unit for itself, police air support is county and consortium (area) based and so are the unit policies on clothing and equipment, including insignia and name badges. Good luck with the collecting!

[Fly_For_Fun]

Should the observers be wearing wings in any case?

[B Sousa]

Wings should be made of Gold, very large and heavy. Also prominently displayed to say Not only am I in Law Enforcement with my badge, but I fly see my wings. Same with observers, but as with some they are given half a wing. Just enough knowledge to crash is the meaning but also allows an air of importance around those of lesser value who do not fly or crew.

So much for humor. In the states many agencies and many different ideas, there is no one design that stands out as unique to Aviation Law Enforcement. Some are rare, some are pretty generic. I think as a collector you may want to go to www.alea.org (http://www.alea.org) and nose around. You may even get someone who will sell or trade some. I do know pins are a real biggie and you can find many, specially EMS on www.ebay.com (http://www.ebay.com) way over priced but to a collector who knows.
Unfortunately mine were Silver, not Gold....

[Droopy]

Wherever possible the badge should include an eagle, preferably with talons open, a lightning bolt, a searchlight on a vehicle or preferably all three. Under no circumstances should it include a pile of unwashed coffee cups, an enormous fried breakfast or the Discovery channel at 3 a.m.

[Aerodynamik]

Fly For Fun, why should pilots wear wings anymore than observers should?

[A.Agincourt]

I never wear my bars or wings awarded from long time past. I have been asked to do so because my employer finds it curiously disconcerting that I do not feel the need to advertise my worth. Well that is my guess I really do not know what they think [who can]. I tend to consider that if you need to advetise who and what you are then there might be a psychological issue to deal with in one form or another. It's a personal preference I suppose.

Best Wishes

[B Sousa]

Fly For Fun, why should pilots wear wings anymore than observers should?


Dont think that was mentioned, just that they signify different duties.

Just as some will tell the Nurse who knows more than the Pilot. You get up here and fly and I can let the patient die as good as you can.

advertise my worth.
Strange concept when you consider you are making less money......

[heliski22]

Slightly off-thread Sousa but a propos your line on the pilot and nurse swapping over, a girl I work with has this on her wall.....

"You want to speak to the man in charge or the woman who knows what's happening?"

[airborne_artist]

When I go and see my GP, who earns about the same as a senior BA captain, he's in a jacket, tie etc. - no wings, bars on sleeve/shoulder or anyone calling him Captain, despite the fact that he's the senior partner in the practice.

My mate who is a PC on armed response doesn't have a badge with crossed rifles on his chest/shoulder, either.

Must be an aviation thing - connected to the size of an organ, perhaps :E

[B Sousa]

When I go and see my GP, who earns about the same as a senior BA captain

Must be socialized medicine..............Any GP worth his salt makes more than that. But you made the point.. Jacket, tie etc, same as wings for another profession. BA Captain in Cab drivers uniform, same thing.

PC on armed response doesn't have a badge with crossed rifles on his chest/shoulder, either
I would hope not, but I can guess he may stand out a bit with Bullet Proof vest etc....All just an indication as to your job.......

All similar to motorcycle gang members. Big patch on their back to signify which group. Makes it easy so that when they pull their heads out of their backsides they can remember to whom they belong.

This topic makes me consider collecting Pilot Wings.............:ugh:

[Coconutty]

Interesting topic - Wings - Armed forces for sure, but Police pilots, and Police Observers ? - Hmmmm ?

I have seen a Police Air Support Unit where the Observers wear a badge with just one wing, instead of the usual pair. This was a source of mild amusement when it dawned on me how appropriate just the one wing was, as most of their time is spent flying round in circles ;)

Another Police force have been know to "issue" ( sell ) anyone that passes a Police Advanced Driving Course a special Advanced Driver's tie pin badge :

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/coconut11/TiePin.jpg

The steering wheel inside the pair of wings denotes the qualification to fly a Police car :rolleyes:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/coconut11/Coconutty.jpg

[jayteeto]

I didn't wear Gold Bars for my first 4 months until the UEO insisted that they went on. The company forgot to issue me with a name badge, so 5+ years later, I don't wear a badge or wings. I WOULD like to have a small 'unit' badge, but there isn't much enthusiasm for that. That is my choice, if anyone else feels the need to wear wings, then bloody good luck to them. To make the grade as a pilot or observer takes hard work and dedication, a bit of pride (properly placed) goes a long way to making a unit more effective. ARVs might be visible by their gun and armour, but aircrew have flying helmets and suits. An ARV badge would look good!!
I could not condone a pilot and PC swapping badges when a visitor is flying as a pax. On walkout it would be criminal to say "Why don't you have a go PC Jayteeto, with a bit more practice, you might get a licence"........ Priceless. Of course I would never do that......:E The pax would be frightened....

[Fly_For_Fun]

Aerodynamik
why should pilots wear wings anymore than observers should?

Cause they earned them :ugh: Not sure a 2 week course gaining the bare minimum of knowledge to operate a camera and GPS moving map qualifies for the award of a set of wings (or even 1/2 a wing).

[Non-PC Plod]

Heliski,

I like the idea of pilots and nurses swopping over - do I get to wear the nurses uniform?:E

[anonythemouse]

Fly For Fun, there are some units who take a lot longer than 2 weeks to train their observers to a standard where they would be let loose as a member of an operational crew. Some observers may be just CAA agreed passengers due to the nature and content of their training; others are trained to a much higher degree and are an integral part of the crew.

[Mark Nine]

Fly for Fun,
How does a pilot passing a course "earn" them wings any more than an observer passing a course?
Good luck quizzing the S.A.S. on why they have earned wings!

[MAN777]

anonythemouse

I think you will find all UK Police Air Observers are classed as passengers, this enables the police to keep control of their officers without FTLs compromising availability in other roles, it also suits the observers as they can earn overtime , the pilots cannot.

The observers I know are all incredibly skilled and capable of multi tasking that would make the average bobby or pilot freeze.

I personally dont like badges as it suggests an element of elitism.

Two weeks of initial training are usually followed by 3 months attachment to the unit, during which they are continually assessed. On successful completion of the attachment a place is offered on a crew, it can take many more months of flying before they can be considered as proficient.

So if badges are to be had I would say they are "EARNED"

[Fly_For_Fun]

OK, I dangled a worm and some took a bit of a nibble. :E

Sorry just having a bit of fun and of course I concur, Air Observers are a valued and integral part of any police helicopter crew.

[flarecheckohdear]

Badges?! Badges?!! We don't need no stinking badges!!! :ok:

(Blazing saddles I think?) :)

[Letsby Avenue]

Our flying suits have silver bars sewn in to the epaulets :confused: Not good enough for some though - They wear the gold bars on top just to be sure :yuk: Can anyone beat wearing 16 bars to work :ok:

[Droopy]

Yes...there used to be a TRE with Bristow Sumburgh in the 1980s who wore the full monty - shirt, jacket and mac, all with bars making 24 in all. And cap with all the gubbins. He was known as Mahatma Coat.

[Letsby Avenue]

Rofl... :D :D :D :D :D :ok:

[B Sousa]

Badges?! Badges?!! We don't need no stinking badges!!!

Actually it was from the original movie "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre"

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0040897/)

Stinking badges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinking_badges)

[J.A.F.O.]

The observers I know are all incredibly skilled

it suggests an element of elitism

Make your mind up, elite or not?

[BigMike]

"why should pilots wear wings anymore than observers should"

I always thought "pilot" wings were just that, they simply meant you are the pilot.... you know, can fly the aircraft?
"Earned it" Yeah, you probably have if you have a fair bit of experience. The observer has not. He is part of the team, but not a pilot. It's not elitist. Does an Ambo put Dr in front of his name?

I have wings on the name tag on my flight suit, saves the medical guys on the ground from getting blank stares from me when they mistake me for a paramedic... :}

[Heliringer]

I'm not a Police pilot. I don't wear wings or bars, people normally know I'm the pilot due to me sitting in the front right hand seat wiggling the sticks around and complaining about the weather:ok:

[MAN777]

JAFO

Its a British thing !

We know we are the Dogs B-ll--ks but we prefer not to shout about it !! :)

[fkelly]

The observers I know are all incredibly skilled and capable of multi tasking that would make the average bobby or pilot freeze.

MAN777, are you sure you work at Manchester?

[Fly_For_Fun]

MAN777
multi tasking that would make the average bobby or pilot freeze.


Thank god the pilots the police employ are well above average.

it can take many more months of flying before they can be considered as proficient

Something wrong with the training I think.

[MAN777]

Fly for fun

Nowt wrong with training, How many jobs do you know, that have a training regime that turns out trainees that are at their maximum potential on day one ? :rolleyes:

And yes the pilots are also pretty damn good.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

I think wearing wings and rank badges is the stuff of the very young and the very bold, either will do.

As we tend to get older these things tend not to matter so much, experience is not the issue, its more a kind of malaise, getting the flying suit out of the washing machine and realising that the rank slides were left on, now all crumpled, one day you wake up and you just can't be arsed to either iron them flat again and eventually sliding them over the eppauleetes that are reaally too wide for the sliudes (why is that) is just too much effort.

No this has nothing to do with "I am so experienced now I do not need such trinkets" its just the slow, enevitable, bone crunching weariness of what used to be fun.........not being important any more.

That is exactly why God invented Golf. You see standing on the first tee, sun on your back, shiny new titliest on the tee peg and.....blah....blah....blah....blah yawn...bollocks. too much effort.

I used to like a nice unifrom, crisp white shirt, jet black strides, moustache like a privet hedge, damn we looked so fine.

Nothing ever, ever stays the same.

Its age, not expereince and I would dearly swap a box full of pro V 1s just to be able to summon up that amazing feeling of pride that I used to have for my wings and my eppaulettes.

Lets be honest guys, we are past our best.

So please do not knock those who still have their pride in their wings and ranks slides, we were there once and all of us would go back tomorrow if given half a chance.

Let them have wings I say as we are past the need. Everything changes!!!

I've depressed myself now so I am off to bed!!!!

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

I am sorry mate that last post of yours just made me hurl into my waste bucket.

Sad Sad Sad man.

[A.Agincourt]

Double Bogie wrote:
Mr A Agincourt
I am sorry mate that last post of yours just made me hurl into my waste bucket.
Sad Sad Sad man.


Oh dear oh dear, DB.....I have just read your last post and feel mildly disconcerted that you do seem to be in far worse a state then you consider me to be.

I think wearing wings and rank badges is the stuff of the very young and the very bold, either will do.
As we tend to get older these things tend not to matter so much,

I'm neither very young and no long find the urgency to be bold, I agree with your reflection.

its more a kind of malaise, getting the flying suit out of the washing machine and realising that the rank slides were left on, now all crumpled, one day you wake up and you just can't be arsed to either iron them flat again and eventually sliding them over the eppauleetes that are reaally too wide for the sliudes (why is that) is just too much effort.

It might be malaise in your case old chap but certainly not mine. As I said before, I think there might be a problem.

Best Wishes

Oh I do hope that your 'hurling' didn't damage the P45 that was screwed up and carelessly lobbed towards file 13.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Mr A Agincourt,

What is it tonight with the cryptic posting. What is the relevance of the reference to a P45??????

Lost for words. (At last)

[tightrope]

in 8+ plus years of being an observer in a police unit, i can say that most of the people bothered about insignia are either:
a) ex RAF
b) bit of a uniform geek
c) still a bit shiny and new to the job

occasionaly one gets an individual who is afflicted with all three problems...

Personally: Couldnt give a toss, I would be happy if my flying gear just said "POLICE" on it, 'cos thats what I am..
The only measure im interested in is how many prisoners we get.
As for "Earning" anything Big Mike..? well that could get into a nice big bun fight....

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

TIGHTROPE

I worked as an ASU Pilot up and down the Country in the Early 90s. Having seen the kind of sh1te the average Bobby has to put up with it no doubt in mind that the Bobbies/Observers have earned the "Right" to wear insignia OF ANY KIND Keep up the good work boys (Being nice just in case you catch me speeding - again).

Its is a bit of British thing "I don't feel the need to wear badges cos I am already a legend in my own lunchtime" kind of attitude.

I like badges, especially ones I have earned, I Joined the Boy Scouts and worked like a mo-fo to get as many badges on my arm as I could. Why! Cos I thought that went I went to Intercamp the Girl Guides in the tents next door would ignore that fact that I was a spotty geek and shag me sensless cos I was a Hero - must be look at all my badges.

Here I am nearly 40 years later I am not really sure if anything has changed. I think the motivation is the same only the wife will not let out much so there does not seem much point anymore.......................

The right to wear wings in my view extends to ALL aviators. It does not matter whether you drive, sit in the front/back working the FLIR, or wear a tight skirt and high heels serving drinks.

Wings say one thing - I commit aviation for a living and I am proud of it!!!

[Brilliant Stuff]

Badges bring colour to one's daily routine.

[CYHeli]

Down under we have another helicopter forum that will remain anon.
Birthed on that forum is a cartoonist calling himself Heli-man.
There was a similar thread on gold bars on that anon web site and this cartoon was posted. I'm hoping the mods leave it due to humour.
Of course GOD and HIP are user names and were relevant...
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd127/Heli-Man/GodvsHIP.jpg

Many thanks to Heli-man for allowing me to post his pic.
I'm trying to get him to post here guys. ;)