Confirm/affirm Cancer Spreading

[vagabond 47]

Anybody noticed the confirm/afirm Cancer of Indian radio creeping into the M/E recently............Indecisive,insecure,irresponsible it may be, just wish they would keep it "over there".

:=:=

[Wiley]

At least they don't usually include that pretentious ***ing "THE" before their callsign, a truly cringeworthy affectation apparently beloved by all too many among the ranks of India's former colonial overlords.

[ironbutt57]

what's it going to be next..."souls on boardthrough security"??

[mensaboy]

Just say 'Roger' at the beginning of every transmission and if you are feeling particularly enthusiastic, add a 'Roger' at the end too.

[NZ X man]

Don't forget" WILCO",

[Cam32]

"sir" in every transmission. (pet hate)

[williewalsh]

charlie charlie

[Wiley]

... "happy landings" (!) (With obligatory head wobble.)

[Fart Master]

"Rog..", and using 'for' and 'to' in the middle of level change instructions

[halas]

Mangalore this XYZ

XYZ this Mangalore

XYZ maintaining level 340 squark 1234 estimate BBL 01:23

XYZ confirm maintaining level 340

Confirmed XYZ

Raj, confirm squark 1234

Confirmed XYZ

Raj, what is your estimate BBL?

Estimate BBL 01:23 XYZ

Raj, at BBL contact Mumbai on 123.45, happy landings

Try that on new years eve and throw 2.3 million Happy New Years!

Namaskar, happy landings, happy new year

halas

[TurboDAWG]

What about when they say good luck... Do they know something I/WE don't :confused:..... lol....



Turbo

[Wiley]

Oh halas, you have truly been there... :ok:

[Smoozesailing]

Ah, the high and mighty....:yuk:

The proper response to a "confirm" question is either "Affirm" or "Negative", not "Confirmed".

In very dodgy ATC environments like the sub-continent, it is very hard to tell the difference between "Confirmed" and "Confirm".

[loc22550]

Generally speaking Radio in M/E(not only indian..) is sometime far away from the standard Phraseology..!
Some people unfortunatly has never learn the basic:

-THINK BEFORE you transmit!(to aviod blank,eeuuh...and blocking the frequency for ages..)
-LISTEN BEFORE you transmit !(you are not the only one on frequency!)
-BE CONCISE when you transmit,it's an ATC frequency not a Chatting space.
-CALL SIGN has to be mentioned in any transmission!(at the beginning when it's a request.., at the end when it's a read back of a clearance!)
-IN SHA ALLAH is not part of the international standard phraseology;
"Qatar XYZ Damascus confirm your registrtion.."
"Qatar XYZ ,registration A7-XYZ,IN SHA ALLAH!"
The best i have ever heard!:uhoh:
Safe flight.:ok:

[dzmeigolem]

Mate, have you been to Italian airspace...??? "Brindisiiiiii, eeeeeh, buongiornooooo, Alitaliaaaaaaa eeeeeh 506 /digits in italian/" or maybe in France they stick to the proper phrases... Just laugh and switch over to the next sector. :E

[Bombay HF]

Well, at least they don't require Divine intervention to receive an airways or landing clearance. Could be worse and talk like IBs countrymen.."OooKaay, understaaand cleared three farve ooh, vacatin' naarn point two.:yuk:

[Capt Krunch]

Sorry but I just have to say my piece.

the level of RT professionalism in QA is well below pathetic. Might be OK for the sub-continent, but more than 90% of our guys would never pass an ICAO radio license oral exam (if one existed).

and can someone please tell me what the term.. 'Charlie, Charlie' means.. I have been wondering that for years, and when I query the guy who just said it.. well the idiotic responses I usually get just makes me laugh.


Poisoned by Compromise
Krunch

[tuan74]

and where does these " I do confirm...." phrase come from...???:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Watchdog]

Ah yes "charlie charlie" ....

If my memory during the days of being a
Radio operator serves me well, it was used when transmitting morse on HF as an abbreviation for "confirmed". We'd transmit -.-. (C) twice - ie. two C's rather than keying the full word. How the hell it made it into aircraft radio telephony is amusing, especially in that I doubt many that say it actually know it's origin!

[Three Wire]

Charlie comes from the International Flag signal - viz Code Charlie. When the the code pennant "Charlie" was hoisted two blocks at the yardarm it signified understanding the signal hoisted on another ship.
Our cousins in the New World naval forces loved to show off their maritime tradition by replying "Charlie" on voice for an affirmative. Likewise in the mess, when someone ripped in, they would shout Code Golf, meaning "Gas alert".
Somehow maritime traditions from the middle of the last century have crossed over the last fifty years into aviation.

BTW, It may actually be correct and proper to reply :Charlie" when radio propagation conditions are poor.

[Canoehead]

This is a rather racist thread.

[BigGeordie]

It is a rather racist part of the world.

[Canoehead]

No need to fan the flames.

[ironbutt57]

Maybe if we all said "gidday mate" the critics would be happy...:E

It's not racist,rather it's "nationalistic" it's always better back home isn't it...at the end of the day we are just guests in our host's airspace, so let them say whatever, as long as the clearance is understood and correct (eventually in some cases)..

I'd rather some of these facilities stop complaining about us not being aware of their airspace changes/waypoint constraints with the phrase "it's in our AIP"...when it's not notam'd, charted or otherwise..let's sort that out as well...

[PIPE RIDER]

Just to make it more racist and involve someone else than Indians, in many years of flying around the globe only and only in Egypz i have heard;

"I do confirm " has to be egypzzian ..

[brassplate]

roger roger charlie charlie copied vilco flight lewel three sewen zero for (airline) xyz roger roger charlie vilco vilco report reaching flight lewel three sewen zero

[ferris]

I raised this sometime ago on the ATC forum here

http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/308095-air-india-confirm.html

and yes, I believe it is spreading.

I also think some blame rests with the way ATCOs are instructed to read the route clearance on first contact (in Bahrain, anyway). Management instructions requiring all a/c to be on standard routings, and the associated format of that clearance, leads to uncertainty. eg
"UAE123, radar contact, route KEDAT, LOTIT, UP559"
"confirm KEDAT direct LOTIT?"

This is different from the absolutely routine "confirm?" at the end of readbacks as detailed in the link. I was interested in the info that some operators require both pilots to hear instructions.

[loc22550]

Canoehead: nothing to do with Racist thread..!:ugh: But rather with safety issue!
Even in our last safety bulletin In Qatar Airways,there was an Article related to Radio Telephony Standard here in Qatar Airways and his safety issue!

[EGGW]

Not at all SNAM. But its the adopted EK standard and i believe the GCAA have adopted as well, although i would be happily corrected on that last one :ok:

At least the UK CAA have a standard they publish and update :D Edition 18 now available.

Always cracks me up, how some absolutely hate colleagues saying The before the callsign. Don't do it myself obviously, but just watch the anger of the antipodeans :E:E when you do it :=:=

Sorry maaates.

EGGW

[NZ X man]

Watchdog
Thanks for that, I always wondered where that phrase came from, since it was used alot on the HF to confirm a request or say yes when the reception was so lousy. Still works today when the controller is amiss or your flying over the land of the double readback.

Cheers:ok:

[ironbutt57]

ATC has a mission and a responsiblity...and we have ours...if you don't like their phraseology...then go visit their facility and see what they are up against.....

"don't criticise a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes"

[kit330]

well said ironbutt!!!:D we've also got to look at ourselves 1st as pilots... I've heard horrible R/T usage from all carriers in this part of the world...lets get our part right 1st before we comment on others...;)

[Wiley]

if you don't like their phraseology...then go visit their facility and see what they are up against.....ironbutt's got a point. To explain why we have to endure the double readback, (and why every request is met with 'standby'), on HF in India, I understand that the man on the radio is just that - a radio operator, sitting at a console not unlike a fighter ops room most of us would be familiar with from the 'Battle of Britian' movie. He writes everything down and passes it to a message wallah who passes it to the controller, who passes his reply to the message wallah, who returns it to... you get the idea.

So spare a bit of sympathy for the poor sod, who needs to check he's written your message down correctly before he passes it on the man who'll kick his proverbial arse if he's written it down incorrectly.

What to do... and oh, how I lurrrve CPDLC, and not just over India.

[Khaosai]

Hi,

pretty sure there is no response required when you are asked to standby.

Rgds.

[BlueSkye]

And for God's sake, read back a frequency change instruction. Even if you say "go %$#@ your mother", just say something.

:{:{:{

[40&80]

xxx confirm my mother or your mother?

[White Knight]

Hey Cap'n Krunch old chum - it's not just QR.. There's some diabolical RT here at EK sometimes!!!! Bl00dy drives me mad:ugh:

[radial090]

Do you prefer jfk or la centre's standard of radiotelephony? Or maybe Africa is more to your liking, even melbourne centre has there moments of relaxed procedures.
Take it easy guys, if confirm or affirm is pulling on your sensitive bits, what happens when the coffee has milk instead of cream.
Anything misunderstood get it confirmed!

[Kpt40]

Confirmative!
Maybe we should get "navigators" on our flights like in the old days going thru the USSR.

I think its more likely that we will be doing online language training every 6 months.

[williewalsh]

Raaaahhhhj.

A mid 19th century Indian principality or a response?

[vaschandi]

SNAM!
That´s NOT ICAO!

Same for Flight Level reports:eg FL 400

CAP 413: Four hundred
ICAO: Four Zero Zero

[Wiley]

The dreaded "THE Emirates" is still at the very top of my hate list.

[Dixons Cider]

or another one....

"XYZ, squawk 1234"

"1234 coming down, XYZ"

WTF??
I reckon hosty's panties should be the only thing "coming down"!!

[Pilocol]

or another one....

"XYZ, squawk 1234"

"1234 coming down, XYZ"

That is not the worst .. what about the "Checking in" and the "Flash"
Make it even worser ..:E ...
Bahrain this is XXXX Checking in with a flash ...
Where the :mad: are you .??? Taking pictures in a Hotel ????

Sorry had to ...:rolleyes:

Keep it safe ..