Oxford Aviation. aka GFS

[damo1089]

Hey guys, in starting the Swinburne course next Monday which is ran through what is now Oxford Aviation Academy.

I was wondering, lets say the recession kicks out in the next three years, would having completed training at OAA, which I think has a fairly good reputation in the UK, increase employment prospects?

I ask this because the main website reckons most of it's graduates go strait into BA, but in the end hours are hours, and I never imagined employers would look at the flying school where one learned to fly.

Anyone care to share some knowledge?

[mcgrath50]

At least in Australia most airlines don't care how you got your liscences. If you meet the minimum requirements that is the last time they will look at them (unless you end up with two candidates who are not able to be separated on testing and interviews I suppose!).

[biggles7374]

Hi Damo

OAA in the UK has an excellent reputation with the airlines, a reputation I would hazard a guess built up by people knowing people when the operation was a small private concern. Now of course OAA Oxford is a small but significant cog in a wordwide aviation related organisation. I have visited them at Kidlington Airport, Oxford and it is a very professional setup but you do pay for it. I am in no doubt that having OAA on your CV in the European market, particularly UK airlines is a big positive.

For example the 60 week integrated APPFO course which goes from Ab-initio to Frozen ATPL costs about £70,000, which is todays exchange rate terms is about Au$ 155,000. This cost cover flight training only and not accomodation, food etc so you would need to add these on top. Oxford is not a cheap place to live and I would suggest you would not get much change out of £90,000 all in (Au$200,000).

ALthough training costs are high you have to remember that the European market is different in that it is quite possible to graduate from a course at OAA and within a year land a job in the RHS flying Dash 8's, A320 or 737. I say it is possible but it is certainly not guaranteed and is pretty rare unless you are on one of the self sponsored airline schemes that they run. Also, salaries seem to be higher with a new FO earning about £50,000 (Au$110,000) pr annum. So higher training costs but higher salaries so the two balance out - kind of anyway!!

The Australian market is different so I doubt whether the same marketing strategy 'Come to GFS (OAA) and maximise your chances of landing an airline job) would be quite as effective. As McGrath says in Australia it is more about having ability and the experience to back it up.

I know OAA publish statistics on graduates employment status but I have read posts on PPRUNE doubting their validity as they are a mixed bag of self sponsored airline cadets who were getting a job with an airline anyway, people who have found their own jobs years down the line etc. I have to agree I'm afraid.

To answer your question will training at GFS (OAA) increase your job prospects when the industry bounces back - Who knows but I doubt it!!

Good Luck with your future in aviation.

ps. Would it suprise you to know that graduates from OAA Oxford cannot just go any hire a single engined aircraft because they do not have a SEP<5700 endorsement and they graduate with very few command hours all 'solo' hours during training are ICUS!!!!!

[povopilot]

Mate go for a walk 200mts down the tarmac and say g'day to the girls and boys at MFS, you would not need half of your 70,000 pounds and you will come away equally qualified.........

[ReverseFlight]

And on yer walk down there, just ignore the neat row of white Cessnas sitting there on the tarmac ... they don't seem to be doin' much else.

However, you'll love the Warriors down at MFS ... they're getting a few more spanking new ones straight from the factory in a few months' time. And they'll treat you like a friend, not a number.

[eliasg17]

Does anyone know if the command instrument rating at oaa is done in a me aircraft or se while commencing the adv.diploma course?Or does someone have to do a se cir and then pay extra for an me endorsment?
:)

[Altimeters]

Elias,

They're trying to make use of their C90 GTi as much as they can. So they're staying away from the seminoles and everyone is now doing a SECIR on a C182 and then doing ME upgrade on the king air.

But you could still ask if you wanted to do it on the seminole.

[Blue Carpet]

I think damo1089 (http://www.pprune.org/members/284229-damo1089) is Australian, and will be paying in AUD not pounds, and was more asking about the employment prospects in Australia after completing the Swinburne course run with Oxford (General Flying Services).

[damo1089]

Good point blue carpet, I think so too :)
And for those telling me that MFS is better, MFS will not let you defer flying traning fees into the tax system with FEE HELP. I dont have all that much cash lying around, so this is the best option for me. I wasnt really aiming for the thread to be a flying school comparison.

[coke drinker]

Doesn't fee help charge 16% interest?

[biggles7374]

No it charges 20% as an 'arrangement fee' and then you have to pay 'interest' in line with the CPI Rate on the outstanding balance until it is paid off.

Unfortunately those without the funds to pay their own way through have no option but to take finance - and although expensive it is not as costly and risky as doing it through the banks as they often require some security such as Mummy and Daddy's house.

ALthough a good deal for the Government and the individuals themselves the only real winners are the Uni's who get to maintain their course numbers and draw down the fees from the government pot as they are the only organisations with access to it ie. an individual cannot just rock up at GFS to do his pilot licence and access the FEE HELP Scheme, they must do the 3 year degree as well which can only be done at a Uni.

[havick]

so what would stop someone from enrolling in the uni degree, and smashing out their licence as quick as they could (using fee help), and then pulling the pin from the course (with a cpl in hand)?

it's a roundabout way to achieve the outcome, but may be another way instead of going to the banks for those who are trying to fund a licence

:E

[biggles7374]

Havick

I do not know the technicalities of how the scheme works or how the stage payments are drawn down from the government over the 3 year period....but you possibly have a point!!!!

[Blue Carpet]

You cannot do the flying component as quickly as you can as its a structured course.

[havick]

you could engineer it that way if you were cunning enough, if all you were worried about was using it as a means to an end to fund your training.

say, have your CPL subjects completed before you started the uni year. then you would be cleared live to make as many bookings as you can get in to your hearts content ie make as many weekend bookings as you could, after classes finish in the summer period etc. (if you think outside the square as opposed to just being the sheep I'm sure a smart, keen prospective wannabee could make it work if they didn't want to do the whole 3 year degree).

I personally fly eggbeaters for a job, so I didn't go down the uni road, but i know very well how it's structured and I'm sure you could make it work for you if you thought about it.

[vh_bza]

Sorry Havick, but it is impossible to fast track your flying in the Swinburne Course in order to get funds. I speak from experience, as I was someone who tried to do this. I rocked up with all the theory done, but Swinburne would not give me exemptions for this as I did not have the actual licences completed. One of their policies is that in order to get expemtions for theory for any licence you must also have the full licence. Doesn't matter if it's BAK, PPL or CPL theory. There was no way I was going to pay for the theory again (by the way, it is very expensive to do theory at GFS), but the uni fought to the bone to make me. Luckily, I have some legal types in my extended family who advised me on what to say and write and I eventually got the required exemptions.

As for the flying side, the course is structured so that an instrument rating is conducted during your CPL training. They deliver IREX in a classroom environment, and therefore, want everyone together in the same room, at the same time. They do this about a year and half to two years into the course. Therefore it doesn't matter how fast you do your PPL or night rating, or whatever, because they will hold you back so that 'everyone can catch up'. So you may end up sitting around for six months, or a year, while everyone 'catches up'.

I'm lucky in that I have parents who can and are willing to pay for my flying training (they do keep reciepts and itimised accounts, and I will be paying it all back for some time to come). I only went for the Swinburne course so that my parents wouldn't have to pay for me, and so they could enjoy their hard earned dollars on what they want, not on what I want. But in the end I had to get out, because the above mentioned fighting and hold ups almost destroyed my love for flying.

I'm not having a go at Havick, or anyone else, and there are plenty of people out there who love or have loved the Swinburne course. But I beg my fellow aspiring pilots, learn from my story, learn from my mistakes. By all means go for the Uni course if that is what you want, but don't think you can fast track through the Swinburne course in order to get funds. It is messy, impossible, and it could even make you leave flying forever.

As for me, I'm at a different flying school (almost finished my CPL) and loving every second of it. :ok:

[havick]

BZA, no offence taken mate.. I fly blenders for a living anyway..