USN Deck Landings

[parabellum]

The are 10 minutes each and worth watching:

4gGMI8d3vLs S0yj70QbBzg

Reminds of my days in Army Aviation, we had a lot of RN aircraft engineers attached and one CPO, 'Doc' Foster, would always be wandering around singing, "And as for deck landings at night in the dark, as I told 'Wings' this morning, fkcuk that for a lark.......... and I still have to fill in my A25"

[LowObservable]

Excellent stuff. Sounds as though someone was regretting (a bit too late) the decision to train in such extreme conditions...

[Lower Hangar]

I sat and watched these clips and thought of a time 35 years ago when we used to have that capability ( albeit without the swathes of technology shown here ) on the old Ark - fixed wing night flying recovering to arrestor gear on a pitching deck. I used to go up to the ACR debrief room ( cramped) for 809 recoveries - I'd leave it to the Duty AEO to take the lead on any post recovery debrief - lets face it we weren't turning any aircraft around for a re-launch - next launch would be a 4 around 0700 followed by another 4 about 0800. The aircrew would come in off the deck with exhaustion and stress etched on their faces - Lt Francis would fetch out a cigarette from his immersion suit ( how did he do that ??) and immediately ask " Have you got a light Chief " - no debrief until that action was complete. Robin Kent would come in looking about 20 years older than normal and say " F***k that for a game of soldiers " - he wasn't one for expressing sentiment of that nature at most times.

[greywings]

Ah, memories of a dark night, non-diversion flying and only one wire (#1) rigged on Ark. Four bolters and a very untidy final arrival.

Never could understand how the USN did it without a couple of stiff drinks afterwards!

Despite the passing years and all that new technology, it obviously has not got any easier.

Character-building stuff.

Thanks for the video clips.

GW

[GANNET FAN]

Parabellum, have you another link to these videos. All I get is a large white blank space!

[Argonautical]

Here are the links to both of them :-

YouTube - PBS: Carrier - Landing on a Pitching Deck Pt. 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gGMI8d3vLs)
YouTube - PBS: Carrier - Landing on a Pitching Deck Pt. 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0yj70QbBzg)

[Widger]

And that is exactly why you cannot just pitch up (scuse the pun) and operate from a deck after months ashore and expect to be operationally capable in a few days!

[Yeller_Gait]

Just watched the 20 mins of video, absolutely excellent, all kudos to the pilots that fly off the carriers.

Y_G

[barnstormer1968]

I agree with your post 2#.
But found that whole clip literally awesome. A stunning case of teamwork, and some good leadership (in taking the place of a junior pilot for the tanking flight).
I have never seen a large modern carrier move that much, is it common, and do any of you RN types have experience of flying in those conditions?, I would be fascinated to hear more tales.
The tale of the Sea Vixen landing with zero visibility, striking aircraft/structure on deck, and going on to land safety at a land based station, is one such story I think sums up the naval aviator very well.

[West Coast]

in taking the place of a junior pilot for the tanking flight)

I also took note of that. Nice to see a Skipper that leads from the front rather from the desk. The XO seemed a good leader as well.

[John Farley]

Those who talk down Dave B should bear this sort of thing in mind.

[S'land]

The complete series from PBS for the tour is available online here:

CARRIER . Full Episodes | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/weta/carrier/full_episodes.htm)

[Dominoe]

Morning all,

Are there any British pilots on exchange with the US Navy who fly carrier approaches and landings? (Not AV8B/Harrier).

[The Helpful Stacker]

Scary stuff.

Having nowhere to go other than either onto the carrier or into the oggin must really focus the mind.:eek:

BTW, does anyone know of a site which will allow a UK resident to watch the rest of that Carrier series?

[airborne_artist]

THS - buy the DVD for about $30 from the well-known auction site, or from South American river.com (not .co.uk)

[The Helpful Stacker]

Cheers AA.

[galaxy flyer]

There's a USN saying something like, "it wasn't too bad if you can hold the Jack Daniel's steady while filling out the maintenance forms". Yes, US ships are dry, but not always in flying squadrons.

GF

[The Helpful Stacker]

Out of interest was there a specific reason that US ships are dry (such as an embarrassing incident once upon a time) or it is one of those "God hates a drinker" bible bashing things?

[galaxy flyer]

The US Navy decided that alchohol and ships don't mix. While I'm partial to a drink now and again, I am forced to agree. There is NO alchohol in US operations, period and, you know what, banning it cut down tremendously on accidents, fights, legal problems with the locals. All stuff that used to be part and parcel of US military deployments.

GF

[Lone Kestrel]

Dominoe, I believe we may have some 1st tourist RN pilots who failed to make the grade for the Harrier OCU on exchange flying F-18s with the USN (to build up carrier experience before the introduction of Dave). At least that was the plan a few years ago.

I did an exchange with the VF101 back in the 1980’s on the F-14 RAG . It was their equivalent of our Operational Conversion Unit so was land based. I did, however, get to day and night Carrier Qualify – day great fun, night bl**dy frightening:sad:. Not sure that the RAF have any more ‘shoot and trap’ exchange post now that the F-14 has retired.

[ARXW]

Lone Kestrel,

When flying with VF-101 would that have been around when Hoser Satrapa was there (of "no kill like a guns kill" fame)? I have a chat occasionally and he remembers a Brit guy (Pete L.) at VF101 in the '80's. Here it is (reply #1266):

The "Hoser Chronicles" and Evolution of Air Combat (http://www.tomcat-sunset.org/forums/index.php?topic=2441.msg49106#msg49106)

[Lone Kestrel]

ARXW,

I was a couple after Pete L, he was the 1st Brit pilot along with his navigator (RIO) Stu. B (older brother of Ian B who does a fair few aviation photos and Lightning fame) I remember Hoser very well, a fantastic pilot with some great stories.

[ARXW]

Lone Kestrel,

Thanks. By all accounts Hoser was a great pilot and I'm having no luck yet as to finding out who would have said "no kill's like a guns kill on Hoser!". Maybe Dale Snodgrass catching Hoser in a bad mood day?? :ok:

Pants pissing stuff those videos on night carrier landings. I heard landing on British carriers was more of challenge than the american supercarriers in the era of the fast heavy jets (Vixen, Bucc, F4) but I guess even that may not have been as bad as landing the Crusader on 27 charlies (Oriskany, Bon Homme Richard etc)??

[Lone Kestrel]

ARXW,

I think the biggest difference between Brit and US carriers was the size, with the Brit ones being much smaller. However, I am not sure that the RN launched as many ac at once as the US and the number of Brit pilots who were night Qual was vey small compared to the whole squadron for the their US counterparts. I am RAF so never flew off RN carriers.

As to claiming a Guns kill on Hoser. Snort no doubt had a few but Hoser would rarely call a Kill on anybody else unless it involved Guns, his line was ‘There is no Kill like a Guns Kill!! As an aside, Pete L, I believed, managed to bring back the entire air-to-air banner after colliding with it and ripping it off the A4 tow during an air-to-air training sortie. Those were the days, men were men etc, great fun!!!

[ARXW]

Lone Kestrel,

With your permission I could transfer that last bit of yours over to the tomcat forums if you don't mind? I'm sure Hoser would love to respond to that!:ok:

I'm curious as to the night team on RN carriers. I understand that not qualifying the entire squadron had to do with the realisation that this was in fact very dangerous business not about to be entrusted to very young (first tourist) RN Sub/Lt (or RAF Fg Off for that matter) pilots in their early twenties who already had enough on their plate learning all the other ropes (and they were considerable I think in the FAA of the '60's/'70's)?

[aseanaero]

I noticed on Part 1 (1min 45sec to 2mins into the video) that the 1st F-18 took off from the Cat using afterburners and the 2nd F-18 didn't , why ? Weight ?

[Lone Kestrel]

ARXW,
Feel free to transfer my comments and please pass on my regards to Hoser, he passed on a lot of good gouge to me before I took over the Guns and Tactics phases on VF101. He is one of the few ‘old and bold’ pilots around!!!
aseanaero,
Yep it all has to do with the weight at launch and single engine no go speeds off the catapult etc

[Langball]

I believe the Superhornet can take off without afterburner. I think modern engine technology has reached the point where you can get sufficient power without having to add fuel to the exhaust (open to correction, though).

[Engines]

Langball,

Super Hornet can and does use afterburner just like the original Hornet - laws of physics still rule and the basic rule with engines is that if there is more power available, it gets used to launch with more stuff.

As an aside, I have been told that the Super Hornet has an automatic system which allows the pilot to select afterburner, but it doesn't come on until the plane is on its way down the cat - this prevents Hot Gas Ingestion when the aircraft is up against the Jet Blast Deflector. Complicated stuff, this cat and trap.....

best regards

Engines

[West Coast]

Believe the F14D didn't at times use AB for cat shots.

[MightyGem]

The complete series from PBS for the tour is available online here:
It won't play in the UK.

It's also available as a torrent here;
Carrier - PBS Mini Series (Complete) : TV Shows > Other - Mininova (http://www.mininova.org/tor/1536091)

But, it is a 6 gig file. Took me about 3 days to download it.

[HalloweenJack]

Since someone asked:


Video of the Week: Ark Royal Traps (http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/votw/VideoOfTheWeek_ArkRoyalTraps_199354-1.html)

^^ RN trap ops

[ECMO1]

There is a navigator position out in Whidbey Island flying the EA-6B being filled by RAF. Same deal as Lone Kestral, at the RAG, but still going to the boat for day and night traps. Much more fun (not!) doing it with a student as opposed to a fleet experianced pilot. Students only qualify with day traps coming through the Training Command. The RAG is their first night traps. When I was there the Prowlers didn't have an exchange posting but VA-128 (West Coast A-6 RAG) had both a pilot and B/N on exchange. Caught your attention when this strange (for the Pacific Northwest) accent came over the radio.

I think it's general policy in the USN for all exchange officers in flying billets are assigned to the RAG. That way something doesn't pop up when you are out at sea and another government says no, you can't use our guy on that operation.

[747400CA]

Brings back memories of my time with VF213 at Miramar / onboard the Enterprise in the 80s

Many thanks to those who posted here