V Australia gets an AOC

[Kanga1]

Congratulations to all the team.

[Sunfish]

Good on Ya!

[VBA Engineer]

I hope they get a couple of flights in before they drag the rest of us down the gurgler!!!!

[Clive]

Good on ya VBA Engineer.

There are those in this world who make dust and those who eat dust. You sir, I would suggest, are in the latter category.

When the VA team started down this difficult road things were a lot brighter. Without doubt the industry is in crisis (un-forcastable for the VA folk). However the Chinese character for crisis is a combination of the characters for "danger" and "oportunity". Thankfully the VA team are able to focus on the oportunities while doing their best to mitigate the dangers. The fruit of this, to date, is the award of the AOC today at 3pm.

One can only hope that the entire Virgin family get behind this venture to give it the best chance of success.

[VBA Engineer]

There are however times when amputation is necessary, never easy to accept but necessary.

[max autobrakes]

What odds are the bookies giving?

[topend3]

good luck to Virgin Oz, I hope they do well, Australia needs a second international carrier, despite all the negative posts about them and their future i say best of luck to them....:ok:

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

best of luck to themHear hear. ...

[FlexibleResponse]

Heartiest congrats to the Tumba kid!

[subsonic69]

I do hope they grow.. and grow fast even with the economic downturn globally..

Fly High V Oz..:D

[Getzo]

Certainly leaving it to the last minute. :eek:
"Go forth and plunder the Qantas treasure chest":E

Good luck, you will need it:rolleyes:

Getzo :oh:

[Chocks Away]

What odds are the bookies giving?

The Townsville refuellers' not paying good odds, while Centre-bet isn't taking any $$ yet :p

[Sand dune Sam]

Here we go, wait for the armchair experts to come out and paint doom and gloom.

Go well V Australia.:ok:

[Chocks Away]

:ok:
No doom and gloom Sam, everyone wishes them well it's just very hard to make a go of it, from such an expensive start that could have been avoided (off to the bunker now:}).

[mohikan]

Everyone wishes them well except that the contract is a HR ideological driven hatred of crew based document.

The logic of taking these low paid, poor condition jobs is "I will just use this to get experience to get a better paying job"

The problem is that with the exception of QF, CX and KA there are few other places left that hire Australian pilots on reasonable T's and C's. Airline managements worldwide know that Australian pilots are the whores of the industry that are prepared to backstab and cut each other down in order to get a seat somewhere.

I bet the HR biatch and her cronies are well paid though.

The downward spiral continues....

[Going Boeing]

I, like the majority of QF staff, wish V Oz all the best. We would rather have another Australian carrier operating international routes rather than have off-shore operators (like SQ & EK) come in and plunder then take the profits back off-shore. At least Qantas and V Oz employ Australians (in the large majority) and their employment has a flow on effect for many others.

There is definitely room for another international carrier - I just hope that the timing does not cause a premature demise of V OZ

[Al E. Vator]

Good luck VA. The concept is great and there is room for competition.

As for the salaries and employment conditions on offer, I hope you fall on your faces in HQ. WHEN the global market improves again in 2010 there will be a serious/critical aircrew shortage (there already was last year and the current hiatus is only making matters worse as old guys will leave the industry forever but new pilots won't come in).

The record global aircraft orders of the last few years will need pilots to fill seats (unless the a/c go straight to the desert).

Treating pilots like crap from day 1 is not a good recipe for long-term success. Look forward to VA aircrew resignations in 2010 (straight to EK) and flight cancellations - much the same as VB last year.

This needs a SWIFT resloution (too subtle?).

[grusome]

Aircraft #2 will touch down YBBN in half an hour.

[beerlover]

Landing time for #2 is 9.22 local in BNE

AU9090 B772 23:22 23:26 88 KLAX In Flight

[mention1]

Well my wife works as a travel agent in an office of about 40 consultants and they are all very excited about VOZ.

They are sick of dealing with Qantas and look forward to the competition. For example, when QF go to Johannesburg their passengers usually have to overnight before connecting the next day, VOZ will get there at a reasonable hour. Stuff like that.

They all had a tour of the aircraft this week and are RAVING about the cabin, especially Business class.
Just some thoughts from another part of the industry...
Good luck to you all in this difficult year.

[30/30 Green Light]

Al E Vator,not at all,but would you expect one?;)

[A Comfy Chair]

mention1,

They haven't even announced JNB, let alone what time they'll get there!

They'll also be flying through PER if they want to do it... So will your wife be happy to put a SYD - JNB customer on a flight that takes 3 hours longer and has a stop? The QF flight leaves at 10:30 so even if the Voz flight took off at morning curfew, it would still only make it to JNB a max of 1 hour before, if not arrive later!

My point here is not to say Qantas are great and I think it is good V is in the market. It is that Virgin are masters of hype and marketing, and its best not to believe everything they say, because when it comes down to it, airlines are airlines and there are limits on what they can actually achieve.

A little bit of competition is always healthy, but I'd hate to see people thinking that they are the saviour when they end up flying the same routes for the same fares as Qantas, but 10 minutes apart.

[empacher48]

It will be tough to start operations now, but I do hope it is successful. There is nothing worse than seeing more pilots loose their jobs because of this recession.

[inandout]

PE on it is very good, leather seats much better than QF, also in E you have more leg room than QF. IFE system fantastic. oh and for B the Sit Up BAR is really great.

[Going Boeing]

inandout - Leather seats look good and have better durability (which is why Jetstar have them) but they are not as comfortable to sleep on - people tend to sweat more.

mention 1 - When V Oz start flights to JNB, the timing of the flight will be dictated by availability of the aircraft and thus may be not much different to QF. If the aircraft arrives in SYD from LAX just after 6am then it would probably depart for PER & JNB at about 9am. They have to maximise aircraft utilisation to keep costs down so even if travel agents and some pax prefer a later departure time, it may not be economically feasible.

[LM82]

AU9090 B772 23:22 23:26 88 KLAX In Flight

i thought they were -300's?:confused:

[Going Boeing]

What callsign are they using? The obvious one would be "Aussie" but as that is used by the RAAF for international flights, they would have to use a different one.

[forgetabowdit]

Vee Oz I believe... Dunno what happened to Kanga, but thank god!

[Hang Ten]

Good luck, your going to need it. Had a mate look up QF travel loads for SYD-LAX and MEL-LAX, there is plenty of seats available on these flights, some in the next 10 days have atleast 250 seats available, same trend for the next few months. And AA have not even started operating the route yet.

Great time to start expanding whilst everyone else is contracting. I hope they know what their doing! I would be dusting off my CV if I worked at VB/VA or will the AOC be up for sale within side 6 months. Time will tell!:ooh:

[PLE Always]

Just saw one of the VA aircraft on finals to Adelaide. Would've made a nice photo with the low sun and all.

[maui]

A Comfy Chair

Could you give us an idea as to why the flight will take 3 hours longer by V than it will by Q.

As the route hasn't been declared yet, your assertion that it will go via PER is pure speculation. The aircraft is quite capable of doing SYD-JNB direct.

Would be interested in the basis of your assertions.

Maui

[A Comfy Chair]

maui...

My assertion is based on the fact that the aircraft will not be able to use the southern routes that Qantas use to fly close to great circle track (and to get out of the winds) as it is a twin engine aircraft, and the routes take you 4, sometimes 5 hours from an airport.

By flying further north, and having available airports (for ETOPS purposes), it will mean greatly increasing the distance flown.

Can the 777 make it non-stop SYD - JNB whilst complying with ETOPS requirements and not being severely payload restricted? That I don't know, but even if it CAN do it non stop, the additional miles coupled with stronger winds mean that it will take significantly longer.

[coaldemon]

Isn't it all done on an EDTO basis these days? That would affect both 4 and 2 engine aircraft.

[Tempo]

The new regulations covering 4 engines are not effective yet (can't remember the date but it's a few years away)

[maui]

A Comfy Chair

Without having the benefit of charts etc, I concede that it will take longer, but 3 hours, I think not.

The great circle route cannot be flown 180 minutes EDTO, no doubt. On the other hand 207 minutes (which would be available after a period of operation at 180 minutes) may change that.

I'm not sure of which suitable alternates would be used, however if Cocos and Mauritius are suitable the northerly diversion to stay within 180 minutes, is not great.

Once again I have no data, but I would think that keeping above 40 south would be beneficial WRT to winds, and although they might be stronger than those below 50 south, I would be surprised if it was a significant difference.

Couple that with the fact that the pax will be given a young aircraft with a vibrant and engaged cabin crew, and an IFE that works, I think they will be impressed.

Interesting times.

Maui

[somewhereat1l]

Maybe they want to take advantage of the large amount of South African's who travel between JNB and PER?

[A Comfy Chair]

Definately interesting times ahead.

It is you that is now making assumptions Maui... like that the IFE will work :}

I think the difference in winds between 70S (where Qantas often fly) and 40S will be quite significant, and I think the track miles will be quite a lot higher. You will also have to fly a LOT further north to keep Mauritius in the equation. Often on a QF route Mauritius is never our closest airport... its Perth and then Durban. So its a long way :}

A bit of competition never hurt anyone... but I'm just hoping that people don't blindly assume just because its Virgin they are here to be the knight in shining armour. Standby for (ultimately) fares that are very similar to QF.

[maui]

No assumption mate. I've used it. It is infinitely better than the Q system. And it does work, unlike 100% of my Q international flights in recent years.

Maybe when it is as old and tired as the Q equipment it may also have problems, but in the meantime the customers will get it as advertised.

M

[A Comfy Chair]

The QF system worked fine on trials too.

Have you used it on a line flight on a V oz aircraft? With 350 pax deciding to use it at exactly the same time?

We won't know until 6 months in how its going. I certainly hope it works well though.

I'm amazed how many people on PpRune have had QF flights with unserviceable IFE systems... in 5 years on the 744 I can only remember 5 occasions with an inoperative system, and maybe about 10 with it in degraded mode. Maybe I'm lucky, or PpRuners are unlucky!

Anyway... good luck to the V australia team... it is a difficult time to be launching an airline, and no doubt Qantas will push hard. SYD - LAX traffic is already down significantly, and with more airlines fighting for passengers (not just Qantas and V aus), its going to be nasty.

[Capt Fathom]

Great Cirle Mapper (http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=syd-jnb-per%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=nm&PATH-MINIMUM=&MARKER=1&SPEED-GROUND=0.83&SPEED-UNITS=Mach&RANGE-STYLE=outline&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=180)

[inandout]

Somewhereeat1 is correct and they will get EDTO to then fly great circle to JNB from Perth. All this is now in the works, along with as you all know Mel -lax.

[ACMS]

My experience with the Q entertainment system is that the screens are way too dark to see. ( and yes the brightness was up full !! )

[b737800capt06]

So Richard, well may they say God save the Queen, because nothing will save the airline that screws it's staff or will it?

I have travelled on many an airline and know cabin crew from many airlines, including CX, QF and Jet Star.

I see the airline industry turning more and more into call centre type operations, with lots of young kids (people aged 19 to 23) joining airlines to see the world - much like joining the Navy (just a whole lot less respect shown by the flying public).

I have heard so much about good/bad conditions for the cabin crew - what do you earn?

I expect that any safety officer (as that is what cabin crew are) should be on a minimum of $50k a year on domestic routes and $65k for international.

I am tired of the world thinking of cabin crew as anything less than critical to any flight for safety reasons - this I know flight crew agree with 100%. (yet airlines do anything to reduce cabin crew numbers? :ugh:?

So cabin crew "arm doors and cross check your wages" and join a strong union - because the senior executives won't be taking a pay cut any time soon.

[Going Boeing]

ACMS - My experience with the Q entertainment system is that the screens are way too dark to see. ( and yes the brightness was up full !! )
My understanding is that the screens were designed to have a narrow field of view in order to give a little privacy from neighbourimg pax who may not approve of what you are watching. I found that the tilt is critical in that it should face your chest & you are looking slightly down at the screen to get the best brightness & clarity.

Having observed the early problems that SQ & CX had with their IFE systems, QF installed the Rockwell Collins system having been assured that it was much more reliable technology than the competing systems. History shows that it is not as reliable as promised and may be less reliable than the competitors. The huge cost of these systems make it impractical to rip the RC system out and replace it with another system so we're stuck with it on the B744 and A330 until they are retired from the fleet (although I wouldn't be surprised if the B744ERs are retrofitted).

The new generation Panasonic system fitted to the A380s (& I suspect to the V Oz fleet) is a much better system which has been tested with over 600 screens running with no slowing down of data flow. Also no circuit boards are hardwired to individual screens so if a circuit board fails, the system may operate marginally slower, but all screens will still receive the data stream.

On this thread, if you want to do a true comparison between V Oz & QF then the comparison should be done between the product on V OZ B773s and QF A380s.

[somewhereat1l]

V Australia have gone with the latest touch screen Panasonic EX2 in all cabins

Even better there are no IFE boxes taking up valuable leg room :ok:

[aussieboy]

And they are amazing!!!! the a380 product is unreal... something definately they have got right.. well done QF!:) the V oz product... BORING! 777 out for years.... pay for alcohol in Y... you cant be serious!?:=

[VBA Engineer]

I expect that any safety officer (as that is what cabin crew are) should be on a minimum of $50k a year on domestic routes and $65k for international.

I am tired of the world thinking of cabin crew as anything less than critical to any flight for safety reasons


Keep it up, you are obviously convincing yourself by the minute.....

[ACMS]

Going Boeing................yeah we tried tilting it at all angles to see if it improved the brightness of the screen, it didn't.

I spoke to the CSM and he said "it's a known problem"

This was on both the A330's, 747-300 and the 400 flights I've been on.

It was sooo bad I gave up watching.
.

[Tidbinbilla]

Is it about IFE or an AOC? :ugh:

Let's get back on topic please.

TID