SN Brussels starts long haul

[Flying_Tuur]

Sn Brussels Airlines will start long haul operations on 26 april 2002. The first destinations will be: Kinshasa, Entebbe, Kigali, Nairobi, Dakar, Banjul, Conakry and Monrovia. In june, Duala, Yaounde and Luanda will be added to the network.. .Not BMI not VG Aitways or Sobelair will fly these lines. According to the Belgian Newspaper 'De Standaard', Brussels Airlines will cooperate with a new airline to be formed by former Citybird bosses Victor Hasson and Georges Gutelman. They will operate 3 airbusses with Belgian pilots (about 50) and cabin crew (about 150), mainly ex-Sabena employees.

Let's hope this will be true, and Brussels Airlines can start operating on the former routes where Sabena was the TOP: Africa !!

[senkrcha]

This is good news, jobs for many I hope and also might kick-to-touch the complacent attitude Air France has had since they took the majortity of market after Sabena stopped flying.

[jongar]

What is truely frightening is that an airline that went bust because of its low revenue flights, is re establishing those very same flights. No mention of JFK, SFO or HKG flight ???

[Hold at Saffa]

V50,

Sabena failed because of the Belgian Cockpit Association(BeCA), and in no way because of "low revenue flights".

Belgium prdetermines failure of ANY commercial enterprise, why not just disolve your sad country between France and Holland entirely?

This is a new Europe now.. .€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€

[sabenapilot]

Hold at Saffa,. .SN failed simply because SR did not live up to any of its previously signed contracts with the Belgian government! . .So much as to the highly reputated honesty of Swiss bankers.... .You may not like it, but fact is the Swiss flagcarrier continuously broke all legal and financial rules to avoid having to pay the agreed amounts of money not only to SN, but also to AOM, Air Liberte and LTU and in the end even escaped into bankruptcy protection.. .Note that all these companies were unprofitable for a very long time before SR stepped into them with the strong promise to turn them round quickly thanks to their huge expertise; so saying the unprofitability of the foreign participations was the main reason for the SR fiasco is putting the blaim on very weak sholders in stead of facing reality by admitting the real daydreamers are in ZRH, not BRU, OLY or DUS.. .It might be usefull for any Swiss aviation enthousiast to make the correct analysis of the SAir Group fiasco before letting them start all over again in ZRH, don't forget that if you don't get the lesson the first time, then chances are you'll have to do it all over once again...

[Fonck]

Gutelman again ?

Is he going to crash an airline for the fifth time ?. . <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> :) <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[apacau]

It is to be called "Birdy Airlines". How awful is that?

[Fonck]

It sounds to me like BA <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[kanik2000]

Tolipanebas, you show so much patience with hold at sapha. I admire you. Personnaly I quit trying to explain what happened on the other side of the mirror. But with him it seems to be hopeless.

[L2000]

Kanik, A lot of people seem to blame the staff for downing the company (on strike, not accepting reduced pay, etc). They don't realize that even if the staff would have worked for free, it would not have saved the company.

Now I wonder if this is correct?

Lucien

[Belgian Sadness]

Why try to explain H.A.S. He is a Swiss. They must have a different logic than us. Try to understand what they did to one of the most profitable airlines in the world (Swissair), not to mention AOM, Air Littoral, Air Liberté, Sabena, LTU, etc. Or would ALL of that be the fault of the nasty little Belgians ???

[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: Belgian Sadness ]</p>

[mjschofield]

In reply to tolipanebas

[quote] SN failed simply because SR did not live up to any of its previously signed contracts with the Belgian government! <hr></blockquote>

I think you'll find the only "contract" they didn't fulfill was for the final $200m agreed with the Belgian government in lieu of raising the share holding. How long would that money have kept SN going anyhow? And SR didn't pay it as it went into liquidation.

[quote] Note that all these companies were unprofitable for a very long time before SR stepped into them <hr></blockquote>

Exactly. It was certainly unwise to invest in these companies in the first place, but who can say they would have survived this long without the investments by SR. What is 100% clear though is that SR would not have failed had they NOT thrown millions of CHF into these forever loss-making companies.

[Belgian Sadness]

ffs,. .Well, who is the most stupid than? SR pouring its money in those companies? Or those companies just trying to survive by any means?

[sabenapilot]

ffs-. .W. .hy don't you answer the final question on who is to blaim for the bankruptcy of SN, AOM and in the end even SR itself:. .-) the foreign subsidiaries which were known to be unprofitable at the time of take-over, yet did everything SR asked from them (massive fleet modernisations, higher flexibility on all levels, new corporate structure, giving up certain routes from their network etc. etc.). .-) or SR which promissed to turn these companies around, yet delivered nothing and in the end even tried to save itself at the expenses of its foreign partners via a complex system of overfacturation for catering (GateGourmet), handling (Swissport), flight support (Atraxis), hotels (Swissotel) etc....

As to the contracts violated by SR, here's a list of the financial contracts with SN violated by our Swiss bankers only last year:. .-) in february 2001 SR refuses against previously signed contracts to help finance the new fleet of A320 for SN, but promisses to increase its share to 85%. . .-) In July 2001 SR does not want to increase its SN share from 49,9% to 85% as agreed in february, yet promisses to pay 100 million euro in compensation payments.. .-) In August 2001 SR announces it will not pay the compensation fees as first promissed; the Belgian government goes to court a first time.. .-) In September SR promisses to help finance the new plan of Mr. Muller if the Belgian government drops it lawsuit.. .-) In October (the day before SR has to pay not only SN but also AOM) Mario Corti announces SR will file for bankruptcy protection at Zurich in order not to have to pay SN and AOM.. .So much as to fair banking and respecting signed contracts....

[Stratocaster]

Who's the most stupid ? Well, everybody has it's share of dumbness. Nobody's perfect, you know.... .Sorry to remind you ! :) <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Please, do not forget the consulting companies who gave the terribly stupid advice of injecting money in airlines that couldn't make any (...money) unless you fired almost everybody and started almost from square one. Those guys who consider themselves competent in any sector and judge you according to what their Excel sheet says are rulling our small world. . . <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

Would you like to have a name ? I know at least one: Andersen Consulting. Yeah, the same company that made a mistake of 790 million euros in NASA's financial report, who gave a "buy Enron!"-advice up to four days before they went bankrupt, who certified all the documents released by Enron, and who even destroyed some compromising documents for Enron.

How come ? Well, companies are now hiding behind piles of paper and if you want to know the truth about them you'll have to digest all the complex paperwork they throw at you (which does not always contain first quality information). Who has the time to do that ? Nobody !

So, how do they know if a company is really healthy ? Well, they don't. They have to rely on what they get, in private, on golf courses. And I don't think they even really care. As long as their services are paid, why should they ?

Yeah, but somebody had to know what was going on, why didn't he say anything ? Because if you publicly criticise a company they'll send you in a kind of gulag where you won't be able to keep track of all the gossip and where you won't make any money.

And where were the journalists ? At the bank, taking money from the companies they're supposed to keep an eye on. Even a small article was paid up to 57.000 euros.

Is it going to change ? Nope, not before a few managers and CEOs go to jail for 20 years.

There was a guy from Swissair (board member, I think ?) who said this big adventure suggested by Andersen would be the death of the company. His friends from management fired him right away !

[Groundloop]

I was under the impression - mistakenly it would appear - that this was a thread about SN Brussels starting flights to Africa. However it would appear that it is actually a rehash of all the Sabena/Swissair arguments contained in numerous threads in the past!

[BLEKE]

it seems a bit strange to me that Gutelmann and Hasson would use Airbuses and not Boeings for their new operation seen their relationship with Boeing in the past, furthermore why wouldn't they employ ex-Citybird pilots instead of ex-Sabena employees as they weren't on any friendly terms with the old Sabena in the past.