Emirates Grows in 2009/New Destinations Merged

[Far Rider]

Full text of a EK press release today
-------------------------------------------
Emirates Airline today unveiled plans to grow the number of flights across its network by 14 per cent in 2009.

This year, the Dubai based carrier will add 18 new passenger aircraft to its fleet, increasing seating capacity by 14 per cent and enabling it to start new routes as well as increase frequencies on many existing routes. It will also expand cargo capacity by 17 per cent.

The additional frequencies will afford passengers a greater choice of flights, more frequent connections with their target markets and shorter, more convenient connection times.

Emirates currently has a fleet of 129 wide-bodied aircraft. By the end of the 2008-09 financial year (ending 31st March 2009), that figure will stand at 132, including four superjumbo Airbus A380s. The carrier will welcome a further seven A380s in fiscal year 2009-10 (ending 31st March 2010), as well as 10 Boeing 777-300ER, one 777-200LR and one Boeing 777 freighter.

HH Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum, Chairman and Chief Executive, Emirates Airline and Group, said: "The next year is not going to be an easy ride for the airline industry. Emirates has prepared the best we can for the challenges we foresee, but we also see it as a time of opportunity. 2009, with our significant capacity increase, will be a year of consolidation for us, with fewer new routes launched than in previous years.

"Instead, we will concentrate on strengthening our presence on routes where there is a greater demand from our customers. All of our new capacity will be deployed in markets where we see growth potential, particularly Africa and the Middle East."

Indeed, Emirates' fastest growing markets are Africa and the Middle East, recording 17 and six per cent growth respectively in the last 12 months. To this end, Emirates recently added a second daily flight to Lagos.

It will also introduce services from Dubai to Durban, South Africa on 1st October 2009. The route will be served by a two-class, 278-seat Airbus A330-200 which can carry up to 14 tonnes of cargo into the port city.

Last month, Emirates announced a vast Middle East expansion plan taking the number of seats in the region to 50,000 on 180 flights a week. Additional services to Amman, Riyadh, Jeddah, Kuwait and Damascus were started recently.

Emirates has added 32 weekly flights to its existing Indian services since November. The enhanced capacity means customers now have a choice of 163 weekly flights into 10 gateways in the country.

As new aircraft come online, both Los Angeles and San Francisco – Emirates' newest routes, launched in October and December – will go from thrice weekly to daily from May. The extra services will add more than 2,000 seats a week between the US west coast and Dubai, which is more than a 100 per cent increase on the current 1,600 seats.

There is increased capacity to Australia with additional daily flights to Brisbane and Melbourne, taking the total number of flights a week to 63 effective 1st February. Later this year, a third daily service to Sydney will be added. On 1st February, Emirates became the first carrier to operate commercial A380 flights into New Zealand with the launch of its Dubai-Sydney-Auckland service. Operated by a 489-seat Airbus A380 three times a week, it will go daily from 1st May.

Plans are also afoot to deploy superjumbos on Dubai–Seoul and Dubai–Singapore services in November and December respectively.

The first A380 flight between Dubai and Seoul's Incheon International Airport will depart in November, while the Singapore service will start in December and initially run four times weekly.

In Europe, Emirates has already embarked on an expansion programme. In recent months it has commenced double daily flights into Milan, increased Istanbul services to 11 flights a week, increased services on the Larnaca-Malta route to seven times weekly and Nice flights to five times weekly. Second daily services into Moscow and Athens are also planned for March.

In total, the additional capacity will see more than 8,635 seats and around 600 tonnes of cargo capacity added to the Emirates fleet.

"Emirates has recorded an annual growth rate of 20 per cent over the last five years," reported HH Sheikh Ahmed. "In the last two years alone, we have launched 11 new passenger and three cargo-only routes. In 2007, with the launch of its Dubai–Sao Paulo service, we became the first – and only – carrier to fly to six continents non-stop from a single hub."

[Boeing 777-300ER]

With 19 new planes joining this coming fiscal year and increased frequencies, how come they are not employing so many pilots this year?

:confused:

[145qrh]

Well lets see.

They are getting 15% more planes...

They can now work us 17% more before overtime kicks in..:=

So as far as I can see, they plan to operate these new planes with the the crews they have..not forgetting factoring for ULR fllights that can in theory put you well over 1000hrs per year on the job, but for a princley 900hrs or less of "real " flying:ugh:

[Boeing 777-300ER]

145qrh,

You factored for the fleet increase. What about new destinations or increased frequencies?

[fullforward]

With the demand for air travel ( and all the economic activity, for that matter) falling sharply it will be interesting to see how deep are the sheik's dish dash pockets to fund this adventure...

[Firbolgs]

All sounds very good but where is the money coming from?
Maybe those nice Sheikhs in AUH will bail him out again! :}

[jonnyjetprop]

Just rode in the back of a JFK-DXB flight and the load was less than 30%. FC and BC were wide open also.

[Craic Ore]

Our utilization is already one of the highest in the world, so 15% growth translates into about 15% more flying. These new planes will be used primarily for additional services to exisiting destinations I assume. Maybe one or two new cities.

We're all pretty sure here at EK the new rules are for flying us up to about 90 hours a month, not for free callout OT on the company's side. Fatigue will be a problem, we're not daytime flyers here and time zone coverage is -12 to +6 hours. Let's just hope through all this, we can keep the shiny side up.

[White Knight]

Craic, try -12 (LAX,SFO) to +9 (AKL)

Where's the money coming from? Well, still running at a profit - whatever they may be telling us!!

[Oblaaspop]

Where's the money coming from?

Well in 2004 the Airline had cash reserves of over $2 BILLION USD, since then the airline has made record profits each year so that 'War Chest' would be significantly bigger now.

So unlike the unprofitable 'Mickey Mouse' train set being run in Abu Dhabi, EK (despite the way they manage us) is a very well managed business that will make a profit this year (albeit nowhere near what it needs to be)....

Despite what they might think, they guys at EY had better look very closely at their own back yard before making snide remarks about their bretheren 'up north'. Yes Abu Dhabi clearly has huge cash reserves, however, all the plans FOR EVERYTHING is based on oil being priced at over $70 per barrel. Currently its half that (pretty much what it costs them to pump it out the ground). Not good boys! So before you continue to gloat at the 'demise' of Dubai, try to understand that unlike EY, EK is actually a business not a 'toy'!

[Bypass ratio]

Well in that case it is from UTC-8(San Francisco/Los Angeles) to UTC +11(Sydney/Melbourne Summer time), and let me tell you, I've Done SFO/JFK & MEL in the last 20 days!!!:ugh:

[CDRW]

Well as EK expands by 14%, SQ will shrink by about that much - confirmed recently by the head honcho pilot at SQ. I suppose time will tell which airline gets it right.

[Ketek400]

All the pax from the downsized airlines will need to fly with someone-might be EK.

[Wizofoz]

All the pax from the downsized airlines will need to fly with someone-might be EK.

Stupidest comment EVER!!

If the passengers are there, why do you think Airlines are downsizing???:rolleyes:

[Watchdog]

I'm with you on that one Wizard!

Dear oh dear Ketek :8

[zerozol]

Austrian Airlines downsizeing, Singapore Airlines withdrawing a kind of a dozen aircraft... just 2 seconds of brainstorming and i have 2 airlines downsized... just the last example: SIA details wide range of capacity cuts (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/02/18/322701/sia-details-wide-range-of-capacity-cuts.html)

and why? it's financial crisis, not? who cares about pax... :)

people, don't be angry and offensive! :)

anyway, it's not sure at all that pax from downsized airlines would fly EK, if they have money to travel, then there are cheaper possibilities as well. :)

Z

[Trader]

They are downsizing because they cannot afford to hold out until things turn or because it may be easy to ramp up again in the future. Or it may be semi permanent because they had already been losing revenue and this was the final straw.

If EK can put the ac on routes and still be profitable then great. If they can aquire the aircraft and scrape by till things turn then they may be well positioned and ahead of the curve.

Or they could screw it up totally and lose in the end. But I can say this much - the commercial dept at EK has proven to be one of the finest in the world, they have weathered other storms and stayed profitable. My bets would be on them doing it again.

[145qrh]

Great , they get to be profitable by being the cheapest..tell me again who suffers?

Longer hours, fewer days off, vacation that is almost worthless.

What has me thinking tho' is whats next on our "managers" agenda!!

They have said they are going to be totally without ruth (ruthless:O)in the quest to cut costs..theirs or me..?

[Wizofoz]

Great , they get to be profitable by being the cheapest..tell me again who suffers?


OK, so they DON'T stay profitable and go out of business (A situation I've been in!!).

THEN who suffers????

[145qrh]

Everything in this world has a cost and a price. You can beat the budget for a short time, but it will catch up with you eventually.

Ek are trying their hand at the moment,will it work, who knows, but they are using peoples rational fears of job loss to screw each and every one of us.

EK group has 20,000 plus employees, what sacrifices are the others making? or is it only 10% of the work force i.e the pilots, that make a significant difference to the bottom line?

I have an idea though for you Wizo, if you want that platinum Najm, can you ask if we really need SVP Training, Chief Pilot, Deputy Chief Pilot, Assistant Chief Pilot, Chief Examiner, Deputy Examiner x 3, Fleet Manager, VP Fleet..(too much typing). Did I miss any other useless and contrived post?

Sorry for the alcohol induced rant ( 18 Y0 Single malt if you are wondering), but it's not just the management we have to worry about in this company.

Our colleagues :ugh: who are happy to improve the Sheiks bottom line because worse happened to them in Ansett etc, so therefore it's OK .

[Wizofoz]

Gan only affrd the 12YO stuff myself, 146!

No, it's not just us. There are currently 1700 positions vacant in the business that will NOT be filled. The relevant departments have been told to simply make do with what they've got. As they will be doing their job in an airline that will be 14% bigger with the same staff, it means people doing more work for the same money, just like us.

A scant few months ago, we had the world at our feet.

The world is now very, very different. Did you expect that to happen with NO pain?

[etops777]

Out of 17 AC that SQ planned to park inculde 14 B744 which was going to be phase out by 2011, therefore SQ is only accelerating the retirement of those AC and the other 3 would be the older 777-200A.

However, SQ is taking delivery of A330-300 plus few 777-300ER so it seems that no net loss to the size of its fleet.

[Trader]

Now that is just false!! Tell me how any other hourly employee will work 14% harder. An engineer, check in agent etc etc may process more but will still work the same number of hours, get the same breaks etc.

How about management?? They will just work 14% more?? The pay difference is almost 20% with the new flying rules so that makes it even worse.

[tbaylx]

Personally i could have lived with and understood the productivity cut, but can see no valid reason for the roster changes. If i do my 80 hours in a month it shouldn't matter one bit or cost the company any money wether i get 15 days off and 7 in a row or not. That is simply someone having a go at pilot's lifestyle with no sound commercial reasoning behind it.

[Wizofoz]

Now that is just false!! Tell me how any other hourly employee will work 14% harder. An engineer, check in agent etc etc may process more but will still work the same number of hours, get the same breaks etc.



Firstly, in reallity it doesn't work that way.

Other employees may be SCHEDULED for the same work hours, but what they do in reality is work much harder. The engineers, for instance, have just been put on a much less attractive roster. They are also regularly scheduled for overtime for no extra money, with the payoff SUPPOSED to be exrta time off. Of course they can't actually GET exrta time off, and it lapses after a while.

Even if it were exactley as you say, a check-in operator doing 14% more check-ins is being 14% more productive, and meaning 8 staff can do the job of nine- a dirrect saving.

WE can't increase productivitey in any other way than fly more hours.

I know I sound like a management stooge and I don't want too. I thought the roster changes were exactley the wrong thing to do. Beating down morale with less time off, THEN less money is a combination that may bite them in the a**e, and I would shed no tears if it did.

But the global crisis is real, severe, and hitting Dubai and Emirates as hard as anyone.

If we all have jobs two years from now, with no redundencies and the airline in a position to grow again, I think we can count ourselves lucky.

[5star]

Well just for those aspiring still to join this airline : Upgrades on the Boeing now will take place after minimum 4-5 years after DOJ. That's a minimum and whithout including the usual DECs shafting...On the bus it's even worse.

So remove that quick upgrade of your positive list.

[zerozol]

etops777,

i don't know why you didn't read that article carefully about capacity reducing of Singapore Airlines...

but okey, here is the official press release of SIA:
Singapore Airlines -- News Releases (http://www.singaporeair.com/mediacentre/pacontent/news/NE_1309.jsp)

this article says until March 2010, 11% cut of capacity.. it's clear and short. :)

you still don't believe that they will do it? who cares about new aircraft? (anyway the original theme was downsizeing, not fleet, that was just an example - and a very important part of cutting capacity.)

it seems that with new aircrafts it's still downsize. or, more of them are on arrival later than this year, because of strike at Boeing, slowing at Airbus etc...

on the table in that release you can see detailed capacity and aircraft modifications.

z

[Speedy Gonsalez]

Does anyone know which routes are planned or considered to be introduced by Emirates?

I personally don´t have any information concerning new routes, but believe that the following cities might be an interesting addition to the Emirates network (I estimated the market share of Emirates on similar routes - like Sao Paolo for Buenos Aires -, looked at the seat place available to those destinations on routes from which transit passengers could come from and studied the geographical advantages for Emirates):

By the way: I would be glad to hear your opinion about these route propositions (especially from Emirates employees)

From Dubai (DXB) to:

America:
Buenos Aires 5x weekly; 777-200LR

(to be able to receive those 777-200LR they have of course first to replace them on routes like for example Perth or Beijing which also might run well with 777-300ER instead)

Africa:
Algier 5x weekly; Airbus A330-200
Dakar 3x weekly; Airbus A340-300 (via Abidjan - which would then be offered nonstop)
Luanda 2x weekly; Airbus A330-200

Europe:
Barcelona or Madrid 4x weekly; Airbus A330-200
Oslo)

Australia:
Adelaide 3x weekly; Boeing 777-300ER (via Singapore)

Asia:
Ho Chi Minh City 3x weekly; Boeing 777-300ER
Taipei 4x weekly; Boeing 777-300ER

NOTICE: THESE ROUTES ARE PROPOSITIONS FROM ME AND PROBABLY NOT PLANNED BY EMIRATES!

[SilveR5]

To all the sciolists around who are wasting their time making false statements and stupid judgements and just confusing other people...take a look at this report

The outlook for Middle East airlines in 2009: poised to shine | Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation (http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/2008/12/24/the-outlook-for-middle-east-airlines-in-2009-poised-to-shine/)

[White Knight]

Actually Speedy - I think most of the cities you've mentioned ARE on the EK radar, although maybe not Ho Chi Minh..

[Ticlak]

Emirates: The award winning airline? I rather correct EK blows its own trumpet. EK invests millions into advertisements to get praised to the skies. EK wants to be the No One in the word - exceptional.
Well, Emirates is exceptional but why? Whilst other airlines struggle, Emirates continues to expand.
But why? - A company, at least as we are used to see it in the developed countries with human rights, respects and a democratic leadership, is a complex structure inter alia regulated in contracts. The contract is the basis for two sides, employee and employer, it reflects what is “given and taken”.
Simplifying the structure of employee´s in colors, we have the cyan´s, the magenta´s and yellow´s but only with all of them – on the same strength level we will be able to see the color white.
That´s why we have agreed in a contract: the cyan´s to the magenta´s, the yellow´s to the cyan´s, the yellow´s to the magenta´s.
Whilst big companies are struggle for survival, the situation in Emirates is not critical at all.
·The load factors proceeds would cover all the expenditures.
·The Company has Billons in cash reserves.
·Not a single a/c had to be parked; instead latest from June 2009 on Pilots will be in constant overtime.
But the vision of profit for 2009 set by the EK top management will not be achieved by the end of the year.
The solution: “Letter of Contract Adjustment” What is a letter of contract adjustment? The basis of a contract is the “agreement of at least 2 parties”. To cut the story short: One of the major tools of success Emirates is using: The company does not stand to any contract, if they do not have to. As we know this “Letter of Contract Adjustment” is not an exemption, already common practice. As a reminder:
·Years ago: Salaried leave stipulated by contract had been changed to unsalaried (letter of advice 6 weeks before)
·Regular cutback in the health insurance package
·Accommodation agreed to enlisted pilots before they joined ended up in dreadful temporary accommodation for many month
Emirates are capitalizing on the dependent situation of their Flight Crew. Families moved to Dubai and not everyone because they lost their jobs. Overwhelmed by all the impressing adverts, it bred the faith in a candid Airline; unfortunately it had been a momentous trap.
It is not the ~16% pay cut to compensate for profit; it is the contumelious treatment of a powerful Emirates leadership. It will be not the last decision, as Emirates knows the market situation; now the EK Pilots are “double-trapped”. The next will be your water- and electricity bills: Emirates will make you paying at the end. And even more of your salary will be returned into the Sheik´s hands…
A court case in Dubai against Emirates would end up in a nightmare for the employee and the family. Of course all Europeans would be supported by their respective Country Labor Law which is quite similar in the European Countries and Emirates would lose those cases. Pilots do not want to fight we are enthusiast.
The Airline business behaves like a wave after bad times will be good times, but employee´s and being interested will have learned a lesson.
·Superior appearance- and performance should always create suspiciousness; there are no super heroes but a lot of fraud in the world; Part of Emirates success is that they can treat their personal arbitrarily. At the end Emirates employee´s have no right´s. If you try to argue – you are more than welcome to go…!
·Audit´s etc, great written OM´s pretend a well structured Airline, but the daily cycle shows that rules will be disobey, (Example. : Req. Min Rest, Max Flight Duty, Expected work on OFF day´s (i.e. Emirates mandatory online home study courses), improper in-flight rest, CPT Discretion,…), and the worst: The chairman of Emirates leads the UAE General Civil Aviation Authority – whatever Emirates wants ….
·Not mentioning the poor cabin crew at this stage – they got blackmailed and threaded. But that is another story.
· It is a clap in the face for all the other airlines. Who treat their employee´s with respect and responibility that someone like Emirates compares its success with them.
·The modern slavery work in the U.A.E, common practice with all the poor workers etc, has found its admittance into Emirates. WELCOME ON BOARD; EMIRATES KEEP DISCOVERING
·If not with EK - AVOID , if with EK - SURVIVE, smiley faces :ok: and leave a.s.a.p

[zerozol]

SilveR5,

yep, all the people who want to convince others with false statements are just to be ignored. ;)
but to discover that their statements are false, we have to do our own research, based on much more points of view than only one, specially if this point is 2 months old; the economy changes faster than that.

as it was proposed by me and till now nobody resisted, press releases could be considered as PR-glitters; if someone takes a little bit of attention to read between the lines (yes, it's more tiring than simply accept the content) then one can discover interesting things, only 2 example from the article cited by you:

"There is a lot more capacity coming on line in the next 12-18 months. Emirates, Etihad, Qatar Airways and several other operators have large order books and, according to current reports, there is no intention to slow the delivery process."

1., this outview goes far beyond this year; of course, the crisis could be smoothened until mid-2010, as aircraft deliveries can be speeded up again, as well.
nobody (including me as well) said Emirates will suffer deeply until the end of time. :)
me, personally, i said that for this calendar year, 2009, with the cancelled cabin crew (and apparently pilot) recruiting, delays by Boeing (and probably by Airbus as well) are just facts showing that something restructuring has to be taken at EK, in these (and probably in the forthcoming) months.

and, most important, internal sources such as pilots and cabin crew here and in other threads and forums are saying that a perceptible change is in line at EK.

2., "according to current reports": sparkling, glitter... let's say, in October 2009, "current reports" of december 2008 are still effective? of course not.
it's just an excuse for future questions. :)

"Emirates, by contrast, is much longer established and without the direct financial support of the Dubai government." - uhm, and what's up with indirect support? :) deep silence... and i'm not judgeing at all! just asking.

and so on... you have to make your point of view based upon several opinions and facts.

tell me, after last years' practice with several new routes each year, why only 1 new destination will be launched this year, and frequency upgrades and downgrades as well on other routes, according several observations and press releases?

it's just a signal of something as "this year is not so shiny as before", not?

plus, i really hope that everything goes allright for EK and for all the airline industry, but want to see clearly through the glitter of PR-shine, and wanted to show other opinions. :)

peace!

z

[Jet II]

I have been here for a long time and never understood the need for so many managers and VPs.

EK are just copying the 'Majors' in the West. :{

Ever been to Waterworld? :E

[zerozol]

hey guys,

i would like to ask: the managerial structure is really so overheated at Emirates?...

i mean, concerning some opinions, it is much more simple than those of other major carriers... is it true or, concerning your point of view here, it's a bullsh.t? :)

z

[SilveR5]

specially if this point is 2 months old; the economy changes faster than that.


Yes mate...you are right...but why you want to drop the demographic element of the whole story! quite clear on which side this one is leaning, isn't it? And IT IS a significant element of survival :)

And if you want to talk about NEW news! Abu Dhabi Airport traffic has gone up during last January vs. same period 2008!! something like 14% up I think!! quite amazing in the middle of the struggle isn't it? ;)

My friend, no need to mention the names of airline companies who got busted so far...only those who would survive, will surely have their say in the sky! I'm quite confident that many middle east airliners will make it to the other side...this doesn't really mean that I 100% agree with the strategies and decision-makers...despite all, I won't go and exaggerate the situation like many people would love to live for such twisted purpose:)

In the end, I think the bigger picture is "who will escape this economic mess stronger than the other..or more able to stand up again"

And by the way...as far as I know, CAPA offers non-funded/non-sponsored articles and outlook reports! they are not that kind of people who would like to add glittering gloss to the objective analysis..and you can refer back to them about the very technical points you are concerned about and your doubts about the sources they've utilized to conduct their report...for me, I can see it very balanced and logical...no offense ;)

Cheers

[zerozol]

SilveR5,

i didn't take it as offense, don't worry. :)

but how Abu Dhabi came here? we are talking about EK.... not?

just to resume shortly: i didn't said, never did and never will that EK and Gulf's airlines won't make it through the crisis with quite good results. nobody doubts the financial strenght of Gulf's airlines!
so i don't understand why you want to paint that picture on me. :)

i just cited several infos, independent from each other, that suggest EK won't be able to keep the growing rate assumed in their press release (cancelled crew hiring, just one new destination, aicraft manufacturers' delays etc.), and, more precisely, that this growing is mainly for the end of his year and for the beginning next year.
and we started to debate of this years future results...

i said no more and no less, just in a more detailed way. :8 :)

z

[SilveR5]

zerozol

It's alright mate...got ur point...

[zerozol]

Salaam SilveR5,

cool! and me, i got yours. :)

anyway, what about the internal rumours that suggest EK won't take all of the ordered A380s because of the several problems concerning engines and other stuff... as far as i know Scarebus has overweight, and fuel consumption is less attractive as promoted...

did somebody more infos about it?
z

[Wiley]

as far as i know Scarebus has overweight, and fuel consumption is less attractive as promoted...Gee, who'd have predicted that?

[SilveR5]

Problems related to the fuel pump are the most popular in A380 now...these were also reported TWICE before with Singapore Airlines.

Such things happen with almost every new type..but this time it's surely the wrong time to encounter any of these!!

[zerozol]

Wiley:

Emirates seeks A380 and 747-8 weight control (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/10/24/218829/emirates-seeks-a380-and-747-8-weight-control.html)

okey, it's more than 1 year old stuff, but still, my internal sources said there are still problems. "We are very pleased to see that there is a definitive weight-reduction programme over the next few years to reduce the manufacturer empty weight by a few tonnes." - says Tim Clark in this article.

i was told that footrests are removed on Economy Class because of this issue.
and now, EK is considering to remove the second water tank for First Class showers because there are less consumption as predicted. of course, more landing weight = more tax to be paid. :)

i don't know if these rumours are true or not, that's why i asked. :)

z

[Wizofoz]

of course, more landing weight = more tax to be paid.

err...like to rethink that?

Less DOW doesn't mean more landing weight, just more available useful load.

[Trader]

Have also heard a rumor that EK's insistance at putting 1st and bix class on the upper deck is causing structural issues. As is having the shower and E&E bay in close proximity.

Apparantly the other 380 operators are not having anywhere near the number of problems.

[zerozol]

more weight.... and more fuel to burn. :)
as far as i know, you have to pay by weight (or categories of that), so apart of fuel consumption airlines want to reduce because of that as well, i suppose.

anyway, i think it's not by accident that they want reduce weight... yep, maybe it's because less dry operating weight -> more load, but i really feel it's for fuel saving.

z

p.s.: i did a small research now, and it seems, according to several forums and articles, that fuel consumption expectations met the practice, after months of operation! cool. :)

[DeweyCheatemAndHowe]

There was article in one of the newspapers a few months ago in which Tim Clark said that he wanted the A380 DOW down a few tonnes so that the aircraft would be able to operate the DXB - US West Coast flights.

[zerozol]

"Air passenger traffic across the Middle East has been hit by the economic crisis as fewer travellers take to the skies, a report by aviation chiefs reveals"

Middle East air traffic falls amid global slump - Travel & Hospitality - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/548120-mideast-air-traffic-hit-amid-global-slump)

i really hope that we will hit the bottom soon and then restart to be well...

[ferris]

The headline of the article is incorrect- probably written by a sub-editor without a clue.

If you actually read the article, it says traffic growth declined to 3.6% That is, ME traffic grew, but the rate of growth was less than last year.

I suppose if they had gone with the headline "ME air traffic grows despite global turmoil" it wouldn't have fitted in with the herd-mentality pervading journalism today. It's almost enough to turn one into a conspiracy theorist...

[zerozol]

to ferris:

with your words, "if you actually read" my post, you could see i never said ME air traffic decreases... :)

anyway, 3.6% growth facing with last years respective 10and something percent is not really a good sign. besides that, you're absolutely right about journalism - i know it from the inside. ;)
but this phenomen doesn't change the facts (percentages)...

[pool]

zerozol

anyway, i think it's not by accident that they want reduce weight... yep, maybe it's because less dry operating weight -> more load, but i really feel it's for fuel saving

less DOW and more load does save fuel, i.e. the fuel consumed per payload. Same same, but different i hear some say....
It is the kg fuel vs. kg load where the A380 fails. You can have a 13 ton/hour burn if you haul some 90 tons as the whale was basically designed. If it's actual state only allows 66, then it doesn't really qualify for a medal.
Maybe EK would be well advised to draw its attention away from pilots BMI and rather work on the the whales numbers.:}

[ferris]

Zerozol- I wasn't having a go at you, or accusing you of agreeing with the article/headline. It was an all-stations "you". I suspect that there are lots of guys out there like me; I don't read the article if it is going to bore the crap out of me. As the headline is outright wrong, it would be easy to accept that ME traffic fell, and to mention it while leaning on the bar- "I read it in the paper". I only read the actual article because I found the headline's claim surprising- traffic numbers are a big part of my day ;)

[zerozol]

hi ferris,

okey, got it. but i think it's good to read everything that can interest you, even if the title or the lead makes you crazy. :)

but, still, if the respective percentages aren't held, it's still a kind of traffic decrease, not? i mean, if the growth of last year isn't achieved, if the growth is less than last year's respective figures... in gross, it's a loss. :) or am i thinking in a wrong way?...

z

[ferris]

Dont tell me- you are a manager, right? What an utterly moronic post. If growth is less, then the gross traffic numbers are less?? :rolleyes: Another one for the ignore list.

[zerozol]

hahahah, huhuhuh! :) you are such a funny person!
no, i'm not a manager, i'm quite far from that.
list of ignorance: sorry, it's not me who ought to be ashamed if you keep a list like this... just because i try to think openly. apart from the fact that you didn't answered to my question about numbers.

yes, if you think a little bit more - not only ignore articles just because of their title and people just because of their opinion - you can arrive to observe that 10-and-something % growth versus 3-and-something % is a fall in numbers. it's not rocket science, i suppose. yes, it's still growing, but lesser than before. nobody said the contrary. "numbers fall": that's the truth, according to respective percentages, either it hurts or not...
a small and silly but an effective example:

year x's traffic = 100,
year x+1's traffic is 10% more =110;
so, if year x+2's expected traffic is 10% more as well, that means: 110+11 (10%) =121.
but, if year x+2's realized traffic is only 3% more than last year's, that means: 113.3!
121 =expected versus 113.3=realizing, is it a fall in expected growth or not?...

that's what i'm talking about, not more, not less. plus, i'm not against EK or anything/anybody.
add that i'm not rocket scientist nor manager, i was average in mathematics and i'm on the domain of humanities. :)

[Speedy Gonsalez]

Hi! Emirates Airlines already revealed their expansion plan for this year and according to rumors we will just see a maximum of three new destinations. Does anyone has information which destinations could be chosen or are under a market study?

[fatbus]

It s been cut back to only Durban(sp) for 2009/10

[Speedy Gonsalez]

Wow! This is quite a hard counter messure for the financial crises. And are there any destinations planned to be served in the next 5 years at least (and which)?

[PositiveRate876]

Only 1 new destination this fiscal year but still a hefty capacity increase in existing markets. Trying to entrench itself in markets that still have strong revenues like LOS, MNL, DAC, SYD, SIN, SFO, LAX.

New destinations are expansive. Cost of new staff, advertisment, equipment, and promotional fares. Adding additional frequncies on existing routes doesn't cost anything.

[Plank Cap]

Wonder what Maurice Flannigan's concept of the word 'soon' is? He was quoted in the press here yesterday as saying Madrid and Barcelona will soon become EK destinations.............

[Aussie]

On the topic, anyone know if EK is planning to start flights to Adelaide Australia????

[MrMachfivepointfive]

No they don't. There are a couple of new destinations on the scope, but ADL isn't among them.

[Speedy Gonsalez]

So what destinations are on their radar?

[Wizofoz]

So what destinations are on their radar?

Philly, Vegas, Chicago,Florida, Amsterdam, Copenhagen,VC, Rio, Bueno Aeries, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon, Prague, Minsk, Budapest, St Petersburg....

But ONLY when we can make money out of them!!

[Billy Madrid]

Trying for Vancouver and Calgary but transport Canada is not playing, even with SIA coming off Vancouver.
Link.
Emirates Airlines strives to expand Canadian service (http://www.vancouversun.com/Emirates+Airlines+strives+expand+Canadian+service/1369159/story.html)

And losing a few flights to China. PEK and PVG down from 14 to 12 a week each.

http://www.business24-7.ae//Articles/2009/3/Pages/03102009_b719180f7de8451c841d316b783e4fbd.aspx

[Jet II]

As EK cant get any more slots for Canada last I heard was that they were going to put the A380 into YYZ

[tbaylx]

Apparently 380 to YYZ on June 1st. There goes that nice layover for the boeing guys, at least you may be able to get on a id90 to yyz now. Damn canadian government.

[Jet II]

Apparently 380 to YYZ on June 1st. There goes that nice layover for the boeing guys,

Nah - the Boeing guys will be following on the 777 freighter carrying all the bags and freight that dont fit on the 380 ;)

[White Knight]

What? You mean the 777 never has payload restrictions hahahahahahahahaha

[troff]

Does anyone have any idea why there is a limit on why there are only six flights allowed per week tfom the UAE to Canada?
The Canadian Gov't must be nuts saying that there are enough flights to handle the load. The airplane is always packed and pax are regularly turned away. Recent flight back I was on had eight staff travelling stand by left behind as well as revenue pax.
Is it AC trying to protect their "market share" should they ever fly YYZ-DXB on their own 777's?
If so, would it not be a situation where the "tail is wagging the dog" regarding Canadian transport policy, or has this sort of thing been going on for some time?
T

[Trader]

The Cdn government is quite clear on what their policy is. A bilateral agreement is required and one has been signed with the UAE.

Beyond that they require a 'level playing field' or equal benefits for both parties. The UAE provides, basically, one destination - Dubai. Canada provides more than that. So, at the moment each country can partake in flying to one destination.

The UAE can have more however they have to equalize the in equality in some manner. 5th freedom rights for Cdn carriers to transit through Dubai or other types of agreements.

EK likes to tout that they and the UAE support liberalization etc but they stand to benifit the most. Regardless of where they fly to they can serve several destinations yet the others can serve only Dubai (ok, Abu Dhabi as well if you want to count that since its only 45 min away by car).

EK wants liberal policy because their plan is to transit pax through Dubai from all over the world. The number of actual O&D pax (those coming to Dubai basically as a destination) is less than 20% of all their business. They have everything to gain.

[Wizofoz]

The UAE can have more however they have to equalize the in equality in some manner. 5th freedom rights for Cdn carriers to transit through Dubai or other types of agreements.


UAE has an "Open skys" policy. ANYONE can fly to and through Dubai to anywhere they wish- it's only bi-lateral agreements with onwards countries that stops them.

Canada has always been a left-wing, protectionist country- and has the ecconomy to prove it!!

[troff]

Thanks Contacted, Trader, and 'Foz.
So, if we (the UAE) CAN actually offer two destinations to Canada, then why are we (EK) NOT already flying into Curry... uh, Surry, (YVR) and coming back here or going to Richmond (YVR as well), and heading to China or Hong Kong with that bunch?
Have we maxed out the frequency? Will the policy ever change? Can it?
I mean, if we are bleeding Oz and NZ seemingly effortlessly for their precious business, why not take on Canada?
Even with the present schedule we could fly over to YYZ or YUL, do a "shuttle" to Cuba on the weekend flights in the winter, and still come back with a full load to DXB!
How about we build the Canadians a new airport? Pearson is still small and the space that housed the abonation that was once Terminal Two is vacant...
"The Em-----es' Tim Horton's Terminal", housing the world's largest Timmy's, would look good there!
We could turn coffee and donut jockeys from TH into ticket agents as well. No sense in lining up twice! Get your boarding pass and a double-double at the same time!
To save money we could simply embroider a golden "CREW" label on the back of their TH uniforms! We could even buy our own stylish shirts at the company store for 250 dhms or on the street in BKK for 50 baht!
If the donut shooters also handle baggage they could work longer shifts. Hell, they could live at the airport, like the crew, who will live on the plane!
TPB Trailer Park Boys - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailer_Park_Boys) could do the grand opening with Rush!
Just thought I'd put those ideas out there.
T

[Capt Roo]

It has always amazed me how Qantas have sat idly by while EK stole all their west-bound traffic. Not even an effort to compete.

Our Pols are happy to let them of course, lots of free grog at the races and the occasional junket to Dubai during the summer (when it gets warm for a day or two here) and you can buy yourself the whole Aussie parliament.

Maybe J* will take them on with the 787 but I doubt it.

[Color air]

There are lots of scandinavians visiting Dubai !
Why isen't there any EK flights to one of the scandinavian country ?

[White Knight]

Lot's of wealth in Africa - Angola's loaded with the stuff so Luanda makes sense.. I see the double daily LOS are running choc-a-bloc too.

[Fart Master]

Yep, the Habibi's don't care whether the money is dirty or not, just as long as it goes into their grubby little pockets... but then again that's where my wages come from hmmmm

[Wizofoz]

Farty,

Are you suggesting BA, Qantas or anyone else gives a damn if the fares are paid with kosher money or not?

[nolimitholdem]

Nor are SFO and LAX full...at least not inbound. Outbound from DXB, sure they are...everyone trying to get out of Dodge.

Canada has always been a left-wing, protectionist country- and has the ecconomy to prove it!!

Trust an Australian EK apologist to be an "expert" on another country's economy! :E It's a bit ironic that EK points to Australia as an example of why they should be allowed more access to the Canadian market while they're eating QF's lunch!!

I actually think it's great the Canadian government is telling EK to "pound sand"...as Trader stated very succinctly, EK has far more to gain than Canada. Emirates is just whining (and propagandizing) because they can't just ignore the agreement like they do with other ones they are signatories to. Like, oh...ones with their employees?! :=

[zerozol]

hi all!

i found this today: Emirates set to cut flights on China routes - Travel & Hospitality - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/549170-emirates-set-to-cut-flights-on-china-routes)

quite interesting. cutting flights to China vs. 14% planned annual growth. okey, still doable (until March 2010), but...

will it be a trend or just a sole decrease?

[airbusa330]

Has anyone noticed how a small 4.5 mil population countries seem able to control the world aviation market with quality and profitability and offer a reasonable pay/benefits. EK, SQ,CX for example.
Now is the time to expand and to be ready for the next cycle not the other way around when capacity is needed, flights are cancelled, passengers are infuriated and not served with nothing but complimentary aggravation. At least these fellows are investing for the future, and we should ask ourselves what are our governments doing about the future?I forgot,making generations to work for free in order to repay the debt caused by clever economics. Harvard MBA's egh?

[Trader]

Wiz - oddly that economy you are so quick to comment on is the strongest of the G20 going into this recession.

The banks have had no issues since the regulatory environment ensured they didn't overleverage themselves like the UK or US banks despite immense pressure a few years ago to allow mergers etc.

Of course the UAE has Open Skies - they have everything to gain and nothing to lose. EK's operation is based on geographical location as an aviation crossroads. There is little O&D traffic since most simply connect through Dubai to onward destinations.

When EK and the UAE can meet the requirment for mutual benefits to both sides you'll see them flying into more Cdn destinations. Until then they won't. They can boo hoo all they like and comment about the jobs they would create etc.

[Trader]

There are no specific requirement, at least as far as I understand, but simply an analysis of each situation.

In this case, EK would have the benefit of severing several Cdn cities and syphoning traffic from Cdn (and Alliance) carriers. Canada would have only Dubai or AUH to serve and since the cities are so close they can realistically be considered one destination.

The benefit is lop sided. There are several remedies that can be negotiated to even the benefit but I am not sure the UAE is willing.

In any case, it can be solved but it has to be negotiated. The UAE/EK has been public in trying to get the airport authorities and cities to push the Federal Govt into allowing the flights and I imagine those types of tactics do not go down well.

[White Knight]

Is it lopsided - the Canuks could possibly fly their own airliners from Calgary, Vancouver or Toronto to DXB and AUH, but it's a very protectionist and out dated policy by Transport Canada.....

[zerozol]

airbusa330,

Singapore Airlines is cutting 11% from capacity, this year... not growth at all.


as for the global crap: to blame not only economics, but "simple", everyday-people who took mortgages and other loans over their capacity...

bye

[GoreTex]

troff,
I heard the party will happen at bubbles mansion in YHZ, bubbles will play with rush, the after party will be at the lower deck or pogue fado.

mr.lehy will be at the door

[airbusa330]

Yep SQ are cutting what are the rest doing?Expanding?The Government failed these souls as it should have put a cap on borrowing especially without deposit, but they too saw it as a revenue generator albeit short sighted as the fallout has cost it many times over. Clever government chaps.

[6000PIC]

I must say I`m glad someone at Transport Canada is saying " No " to EK ,and EY for the time being. This is the kind of responsible negotiating that is needed up against an opaque and utterly state funded enterprise which is both UAE Airlines..... For once someone in government is standing up to " Special interests " and saying piss off. Those posters here supporting EK and EY are doing this out of self interest. By this I mean all those Canadians at EK who want this to happen just so they can travel " home " for free , and say screw what happens in the Canadian economy. The idea of " free market " forces applying here is BS. We just found out the hard way what happens when " the Market " is allowed a free hand.( Especially when that market is based on an endless supply of state $$$ ...) Don`t piss on my leg and tell me it`s raining , said Judge Judy.
Well said Trader by the way.

[White Knight]

6000pic - Ek IS NOT state funded, rather the other way round.. The money that EK pays to the gov't of Dubai is huge - that's why we don't get so much of the profit:ugh:

[6000PIC]

Come on White Night , do you really believe that ??? When did you see the publicly published accounts of EK ? Transparency is in the eye of the beholder , and opaqueness is as common as baksheesh.

[fourgolds]

Trader and 6000PIC. I agree on this one. The Cannuks are wise I feel on this issue. Similar to the Kiwi,s not allowing the sale of Auckland Airport to Dubai a year or so ago. Free trade etc is all well and good , but there is not enough transparency in the way EK conduct their bussiness to allow for such a "free market".

EK/EY could be like bringing a gun to a knife fight. Until the Cannucks can establish that it is in fact a gun fight they are involved in.

Although on a flip side of course it would be great for all the Cannucks based here ( and create jobs in Canada).

Like everything there are so many arguments for and against.

[6000PIC]

What is required for EK to do business abroad is negotiating partners that are sufficiently empowered and inherently self interested to be "wowed" by the "grandeur" of corruption , greed and easy money. Thankfully the Canadians aren`t allowing promises of gold to cloud out fair mindedness. I hope the best for EK , but until they come clean with their accounting practices , revenue streams , etc , they don`t deserve a seat at the negotiating table.

[Billy Madrid]

Ek fly 8 times a day to London, 2x Man, 2x Bhx, 1x Ncl and 1x Gla.
So thats 14 times a day to Uk. I have no idea how many times EY flys to UK but my point is that the 3x Lhr BA and VS flights are (Were) always full.

Not sure what Transport Canada is afraid of by letting EK fly in more but
lets face it 90% of the pax for YYZ come from India. Now as far as I know AC don't fly direct to India but only offer it through STAR parters.
Surely there are enough Indians for everybody!!!

Sure the Pax don't start in DXB the old O and D pax thing but how many pax on BA or UA or any other airline start in India?

However I respect Transport Canada's decision to stick two fingers up to anybody they wish.
In Dxb we see the locals being protected and rightly so some say, funny how emirates doesn't like it when the Canadians protect their locals (AC) even if it doesn't really make much sense.

Now anybody heard anything about the 777F that was supposed to turn up in March? Some one said they couldn't get finance as it a frieghter..(Just a rumour though)

Ta BM

No offense meant to Indians by the way.

[Oblaaspop]

6000PIC,

Not wanting to P1ss on your camp fire, but try this link out http://www.ekgroup.com/Annualreports/2006-2007/pdf/AuditorReport_EK.pdf.

You will see Price Waterhouse Coopers independent financial audit for the EK group last year.

I guess you will still come up with some unfounded drivel about EK not paying landing fees or getting free fuel (would that not mean we would tanker outbound on EVERY single flight??) -- Incidentally, the UAE doesn't refine its oil, it actually purchases its Jet A1 from Singapore.

Not having a pop mate, just correcting you with FACTS before you spout any more unfounded/un-researched crap :ugh:

[fatbus]

6000 pic ,
and do a search and you can find out the amount paid to the Dubai Gov by EK. you must not be from around here

[Desert Diner]

Incidentally, the UAE doesn't refine its oil, it actually purchases its Jet A1 from Singapore.

Just to keep things balanced.

Those are also not correct facts.

[Oblaaspop]

Sorry DD, but I beg to differ! The info about Jet fuel coming from SIN was mentioned in a meeting by AS.

[zerozol]

hi all!

airbusa330, cool that you revised your opinion! :)

i didn't say banks and governments are innocent newborns. :)

but, if someone could be fooled with miraculous PR-stuff and other things, and doesn't take time to sit down and evaluate, just follows the "buy more, take loan"-way...well... no comment. :)
i'm really sorry for every "poor soul", as you said, but maybe this big crap will make people grow up a little...

ON
so, what about Emirates cutting China-routes vs. 14% growth?

bye

[mini cooper]

Freighter being delivered at the end of the month -crewed partly by freighter boys fresh out of training, it must be as good as it gets: new on type + get hands on brand new a/c, good for them - at least they now how to cook the food and make coffee for the 2 main line guys!!!! (how many will bite at that?)

As for expansion, we have to expand as we can't afford to pay the massive penalties for not taking the aircraft ordered - that's oficial. Hence why we have to work harder, more aircraft but frozen recruitment - I can see the problem with that cunning plan already - they never learn!!!

As for canada the airline structure has always been dodgy, so they will try to protect Air Canada as much as possible. No one likes to see a national carrier go down the tube, however in the current climate I'm not sure it will be able to survive, unless there is a large amount of help from the government, but they have enough problems to deal with without having to bail out Air Canada. So if it does fold there will be a large void, hence they will need someone else flying in, so give them time and I'm sure they will let EK in - how else will all the canadian national indians get their extended families out there!!!;)

[BYMONEK]

Fatbus

I thought EK was part of the Dubai govenment?

[fatbus]

BYMOEK,
EK is part of the holding's of someone that is a part of the family that is part of the Gov. How s that? I think you know what I mean. But the money flows the s other way -EK to Dubai Gov. Not that much this year I would assume.

[Speedy Gonsalez]

Are there plans to make Abidjan (currently routed via Accra), Entebbe (Addis Abeba), Malta (via Larnaca), Hong Kong (some flights via Bangkok) or further routes with stopovers nonstop? Would be interesting to be if they now have enough traffic to serve them nonstop (as Tunis/Tripoli which got delinked).

[Jet II]

I was told that they were going to use the aircraft freed up by cutting routes to China and japan and the new aircraft that are arriving to expand services to amongst other destinations Africa.

Given that there are no new routes on the cards soon I would assume that they are going to make some of the double destinations direct and increase frequencies to others - but havn't heard anything specific as yet.