atc response to declaring mayday at departure airfield

[797]

could any atc pro enlighten me what procedure would be in place if an a/c departs and declares a mayday shortly thereafter.
i was always and still am under the impression that the airport is at the unrestricted disposal of the distressed crew and they may use any runway, runway direction and facility available to them and that any traffic at that time would be cleared immediately.

thank you

[zkpjm]

I doubt whether anywhere has a set procedure. However, your impression would be pretty much correct in that if you declare a mayday then ATC will do everything possible to assist including making sure theairport is at the unrestricted disposal of the distressed crew and they may use any runway, runway direction and facility available to them and that any traffic at that time would be cleared immediately.

[slatch]

First of all, in that situation ATC usually is not much help. The best they can really do for you is to clear the field and airspace between you and the field so you have options. If it is a REAL emergency (not a precautionary one) you are going to be busy flying and planning your return. We train controllers to just get everyone out of the way and acknowledge the emergency, and usually “Cleared to Land Any Runway, Winds XXX at XX” The hardest part was teaching the controllers not to distract the pilot with stupid questions like number of people and fuel on board, say intentions, etc while the pilot is in the middle of the emergency.

[goriding]

Declare an emergency, tell the controller what you need, then do what you need. He will simply have to get whatever and whomever out of your way.

You have priority as soon as you declare an emergency over all other traffic. Declaring an emergency gives the pilot the authority to deviate from any rule or regulation to the extent required to meet the needs of the emergency situation.

[Dixons Cider]

well said.

[OMDB-PiLoT]

Here's one scenario I was thinking about earlier:

Two aircraft take off one after another. Both have bird strike to the engines, no thrust available, as a result they both declare an emergency! Only one runway is available and no alternate aerodrome in the area, what happens then? Anyone landing first will definitely not leave the runway immediately! So what is the ATC going to do in such a case with both aircraft? Just a hypothetical scenario, it should be interesting to see what others have to say about it.

[Touch'n'oops]

Let's not get silly now!!! :rolleyes:

[Wizofoz]

So what is the ATC going to do in such a case with both aircraft?

ATC won't be doing anything with either of them. It will be entirerly up to the pilots of both aircraft to do the best they can. ATC might be able to assist with information about their relative positions, but that would be about it.

Put it this way- you're the Captain of one of those aircraft, and ATC says something like "Runway occupied, go around!". Does it make the slightest difference to what you do next?

[mensaboy]

Declaring a Mayday ensures priority is given to you. You should have the resources of ATC and everyone else at your disposal.

The only thing you have to answer for, is your decisions with respect to what you are demanding and your initial decision to declare the emergency. For example, if you declare a Mayday with a single engine failure on a quad, which subsequently closes a runway or causes diversions, then you will probably be held accountable. Or if you demand a particular runway, and it turns out it was not suitable, then you will answer for that too.

Otherwise, if your decisions are justified, you should get exactly what you request without repercussion.

[OMDB-PiLoT]

Let's not get silly now!!! :rolleyes:


What part of "hypothetical scenario" did you not understand?

All I wanted to know was how ATC handled such a situation, NOT what the pilots did in that matter.

mensaboy & Wizofoz: Interesting answers, but you both are still talking about pilot's decision making and whether the situation was really worth calling a MAYDAY.

[Schibulsky]

OMDB-Pilot where do you got that "knowledge" from?

Basic rule (as I learned in pilot training) in an emergency:
1. aviate
2. navigate
and THEN if you have the time
3. communicate

And during my time as ATC-Controller we knew about that and if
there was a mayday call or a mayday squawk you get EVERYTHING
out of the way for that aircraft.
So basically once you squawk or call emergency and its acknowledged
you can assume the whole area and the entire airport is at your disposal!

But that was centuries ago, maybe you have to hand in a signed emergency form nowadays:ooh:

[Rule3]

OMDB-PiLoT:ugh:
Hypothetical Answer.:ok:
1. How long is a piece of string?:confused:
2. If my aunty had balls.......:eek:
3.Where would they bury the survivors?:O
I hope this helps.:ok:

For the grammar police, I know never answer a question with a question.:)

[ATSI]

OMDB-PiLoT

It happened to me once! However, not bird strikes.

1st ACFT returned immediately for landing and vacated
2nd ACFT departed 1 min behind, returned for landing on same runway as no 1

no time for a runway inspection between the 2 landings, but fire and rescue in position for both landings. The other parallel runway was still in use with other landing aircraft, but departures were delayed. The crossing runway not available for emergency landings unless for critical emergencies (these two were not)

was I busy on DEP, hell yes, and so became the TWR controller :ok:

[OMDB-PiLoT]

@Schibulsky: Ya its pretty clear you are old enough to not comprehend what I was talking about. With all due respect, its apparent your "experience" didn't teach you how to read comments in this forum properly, which includes the question asked in the first post here. Please stop acting like a sciolist*! If you read my previous posts clearly, you will understand what I mean. The ATC needs to ACKNOWLEDGE the MAYDAY to clear everything up in that airspace! So to assume that the whole aerodrome will just wipe out dead from the airspace by declaring MAYDAY is wrong.

*Look at the end of this page for what it means.

@Rule3: Ya I think banging your head is all you need right now.

@ATSI: Thanks for sharing that event with us. I guess my scenario isn't 'hypothetical' anymore and gives an opportunity for the so-called "experienced" pilots in this forum to learn something. Anything can happen in aviation.

[zkpjm]

So what is the ATC going to do in such a case with both aircraft? Just a hypothetical scenario, it should be interesting to see what others have to say about it.


Head for Costa's for a Latte with several extra shot's 'cos it just aint our day is it....:eek:

The truth is that all the rules go out the window and everyone should do what they can to prevent people from dying.... if that means clearing taxiways, aprons or grass 23 for use then so be it.

safe flying

P

[Schibulsky]

OMDB-Pilot:

The ATC needs to ACKNOWLEDGE the MAYDAY to clear everything up in that airspace!
WRONG!!!!


So to assume that the whole aerodrome will just wipe out dead from the airspace by declaring MAYDAY is wrong

absolute BS!!!

Why do you think "communicate" is the last on the list?:ugh:
Because you might have fcuk all time to tell everybody what you are doing! :uhoh:

When you call mayday everybody immediately hits the big red buttons and you should see how your 7700 lights up the screens in every ATC unit in that area. Btw. nice whoooping sound too :eek:

But looks like you have never set foot into an ATC unit!
Do not ask guys with ATC knowledge for info and then start your ill informed BS :=

Keep looking for the "mayday button" on your FMC...:ok:

[OMDB-PiLoT]

When you call mayday everybody immediately hits the big red buttons and you should see how your 7700 lights up the screens in every ATC unit in that area. Btw. nice whoooping sound too

I am sorry but aircraft dont carry ATC units with red lights and whooping sounds!

But looks like you have never set foot into an ATC unit!

Sorry to inform you, but I have! Not in the one you were sleeping. You are still not getting the whole point of this thread, try reading harder.

LOL... here's something interesting :ugh:



OMDB-Pilot:

The ATC needs to ACKNOWLEDGE the MAYDAY to clear everything up in that airspace!

WRONG!!!!



And you said the same thing earlier! You seem to be very confused Sir. Had enough vodka?


So basically once you squawk or call emergency and its acknowledged
you can assume the whole area and the entire airport is at your disposal!

[Schibulsky]

Originally Posted by Schibulsky
So basically once you squawk or call emergency and its acknowledged
you can assume the whole area and the entire airport is at your disposal!


For just squawking 7700 you might not get an acknowledgement and I did not say you need that acknowledgement!:=

The first sentence was probably just too long for you.
You probably think I should have said: "..leave your aircraft, visit the ATC unit and watch what happens.." :ugh::ugh::ugh:
But even then you are obviously still too dense to get the point!
So I type r e a l l y slowly for you now:
The nice people in the funny tall building and the others with the weird round TVs have a thingy that is turning all the time and tell them where you are and where you are going.
It makes also funny noises and flashes when people like you experience a bad bad situation (probably in your case: losing all auto pilots:{)
Then they take the other thingy (the one with the buttons) and tell all other people in the other tall buildings (and the other round TV guys) that there is somebody who has a problem and might come for a visit.
And because they are very very well trained that happens very very fast.
o.k.??

Now your problem starts...do I have a procedure for that?...am I allowed to fly this thing with my hands?...is there no button for that?...will I get reported because I land without clearence? :8

Believe me, thats the first time you can happily ignore the guy (tall building or round TV) who always told you what to do :ok:

Now I rest my case and get back to the vodka, need it to not develope fear of flying with pilots like you :E

[797]

thank you slatch for the inside information.
it is pretty much what i thought should happen.
a mayday should give you all options if needed/requested.

[Touch'n'oops]

OMDB-PiLoT, I still think you're hypothetical question is silly, well right out stupid!!!

I can't imagine an ATC controller asking a plane, with no thrust, to hold or go somewhere else.
I agree that this may happen, but what can ATC do to organise two crap gliders???

It will obvious be a 'stuck it and see' situation. You would hope that one aircraft would arrive first and use it's momentum (That's right, aircraft CAN roll without thrust.) to clear the runway for the next aircraft. Say the aircraft can't clear or the two aircraft arrive to together. One go for the runway and the other look for a clear taxiway or look to touch down near the aerodrome, so emergency services can reach them quickly.

At the end of the day it will come down to good old fashion airmanship. Both flight deck crews should hopefully have a good enough SA to pickup the other MAYDAY.

OMDB-PiLoT: DO YOU ACTUALLY FLY?????????

[AvEnthusiast]

Just simple. As you can think of those situations then think of the resources and techniques you can use. You know that when the second aircrafts departs it has to depart after some time due to wake turb. And when the 1st one declared emergency and then the second one is going to do that after some time. so now you know both are in emergency and the first one comes first and then the second one. so just send a tug as well and when the first one landed the tug has to evacuate it from the runway so then the second one can land. Now don't tell me it's going to do crash landing due to bird strikes. if it can return to airport to land it just like emergency landing without engine power and if the gears are down then it's fine.

[Capt.Bee]

Schibulsky - Thanks a lot man!!! :ok:
AvEnthusiast - You are damn right, ENTHUSIAST! You have no idea what you talking about! :ugh:
OMDB-PiLoT - I thought the temperature in Dubai is not that high yet ! Find a biiig palm tree my friend. :)

[FinalControl]

YOU are a pessimist!
The guy behind will have to find a taxiway...

[Jetjock330]

First one back down on the runway and for the next one, if it was me, would put it down on the taxi way. Having no thrust or minimal thrust and a blocked runway, not much decision making needed!

With respect, ATC is of little consequence (they are unable to help any aircraft on minimal thrust)!!!