Are pilots mostly first born children?

[jigsawblue]

I read that a very high proportion of US Navy
Aviators are first born children, eldest sons
and now some daughters. It was also said
that a high proportion of civilian pilots are
too
Is this true? It's interesting not just because
I'm an eldest son. It is a fact that the eldest
child is almost invariably the most conservative
and mature, taking to the role of leader
simply because they must do so with their
siblings. Also a degree of self reliance, no
big brother to ask and respect for authority
These traits are valued in aviation so perhaps
these dovetail neatly with profession.
It would be interesting if using a stricty unscientific
poll if everyone would reply stating their position
in the family. Even if you are a middle or youngest
child you should reply if only to knock this
theory on the head.

Any takers?

[Luftwaffle]

Eldest of two.

[Bubbette]

My brother's a pilot and he's the middle child of three.

[Capt Claret]

Oldest of four.

------------------
bottums up !

[Colonel Sanders]

Eldest of two.

The Colonel

[stagger]

jigsawblue,

Have you been reading Frank Sulloway's book "Born to Rebel" by any chance? It's all about the influence of birth order on personality. Sulloway argues that first-born children are more likely to be conformists while the later-borns tend to be more creative and more likely to reject the status quo. Bad for CRM?

[ehwatezedoing]

Oldest of two!

[Lurk R]

Eldest of four - but I'm SLF...
(But fantastic on FS2000)!!!

[Snigs]

One brother, he's older than me!!

[aviator]

Oldest of three

------------------
I have a need for speed!

[skyrocket]

First of 4

[Sunny]

Oldest of two.

[redsnail]

Eldest of two.

[Skytrucker87]

Singleton

[gaunty]

Yeah eldest of three.

But its more likely to be that the parents either:
Have run out of money for the rest,
OR
Having seen how a young pilot behaves bans the younguns.

[Echo India]

Youngest of three brothers.

[pjdj777]

eldest of two

-----------------
If you think I'm flakey, you should meet my bruvver

[This message has been edited by pjdj777 (edited 29 June 2000).]

[kopbhoy2]

Only an SPL but eldest of 3...

[Flypuppy]

Oldest of two

[tunneler]

a wannabe but an oldest child wannabe.....

the rat wants to study architecture or sumat wierd like that? Where the boy gets those silly ideas i dont know :)

Bx

[HugMonster]

3rd. of 4

[Willy Jazz the cans 2]

Youngest of 3, and the only lad! :)

------------------
I'm on my way!

[Oleo]

Middle of five.

[F/O Junior]

Singleton here

[Diesel8]

Youngest of two

[Basil]

Dunno about firstborn but I've had other mental reservation ref the birth circumstances of one or two colleagues :rolleyes:

[Skybiter]

Eldest of three. Other two married and have produced curtain swingers but I've managed to avoid the trap so far.

You can't hit a moving target.

[WX Man]

One day I'll have an ATPL (only PPL at the moment). When I do I'll be the oldest of 3.

[HF8903]

oldest of 1 (me)
sorry i couldnt resist

A l e s s a n d r o

[Buffy Summers]

Youngest. And as for older siblings being more mature I would like to dispel that myth, certainly in the case of my siblings!
I understand that pilots are in general good all rounders rather than Mensa members, and creative, many are musicians (to some degree). Perhaps people could comment on that?

[willbav8r]

Oldest of two.

Not a wannabe, but a willbe :)

[E cam]

Last of 4 - that's why I'm a bit dozey then?

[Dr Jekyll]

The notion that pilots are often musicians sounds reasonable, you need reasonable coordination and a sense of timing for both.
But why can't Mensa members be all rounders?
Is being good at IQ tests some kind of disqualification?

[WOK]

Spooky - eldest of two

[jigsawblue]

Interesting, a majority verdict so far. Very
unscientific though. I never read the book
mentioned but that's probably where this
idea originated. The only real way we
could be sure that birth order had an
effect on our choice of career would
be to trawl the files of an airline.
I think we would be opening a can of
worms though. If airlines began
recruiting on the basis of birth order there
would be a mighty row.
So far it seems it might be true, but then
again maybe it's PPruNe where you find
all the elder children. The young ones
are probably downloading MP3 files on
some bootleg music site.

Hmm maybe a survey based on star signs
might be interesting any takers, I'm a Sagitarrius

[Buzzoff]

Jus' little ol' me - but I'm a Gemini - so there must be two of me!

[Slasher]

Youngest of 3. I was beaten up a lot by my older brothers when I was a kid (which..er..explains a few things...) :)

[VFE]

A "will-be", youngest of 2.

[Tricameleer]

OOoohh! Spoooky!!!
Eldest of three!! Wow.

[Skytrucker87]

Virgo - and a musician. Also equestrian activities. All that sort of stuff goes hand in hand. Aviation, Music, Horseriding, Sailing, Bonki.....no forget that one.

[AtlanticFlyer]

Does that mean my poor daughter is destined to be one aswell, what with me and her dad flying and her being the first born, theres no hope for her, better start saving up now!!

[Flyer94]

Eldest of four...

[737]

Eldest of five ........

[Virginia Plane]

Youngest of two (but big brother's a pilot too!).

Regards
ViP

[SKYYACHT]

Eldest of two :)

[Gentleman Aviator]

1st of 3.

:)

[freddy]

Elder of two

[AeroBoero]

Eldest of Two!

[redsnail]

Many pilots also ride motorbikes.
In our course 3 of us do. (out of 4.)

------------------
reddo
A Feral Animal.

[jigsawblue]

I see a pattern forming. This is beginning to look
like a possible basis for some students research
paper.

My younger brother is an Engineer. All you Engineers
there, are you by any chance a youngest child?

Actually this is all a little worrying, Are we
predispositioned to follow a path in life?

Someone mentioned interests, so lets develop this
further. It seems to me that if aeroplanes
didn't exist I would have gone to sea. I know
quite a few pilots who are into sailing. Is there
a connection I wonder? Early aviators were also
chosen from the ranks of the cavalry. I like
horse riding too. And motorcycles.
It's fascinating to think of how much in common
we have.


[This message has been edited by jigsawblue (edited 30 June 2000).]

[CrashDive]

Eldest of three - and no family background in aviation till me.

[CrashDive]

..... and yes, a qualified engineer, I also ride motorbikes, am into sailing (both dinghys and yachts), windsurfing (was semi-professional), diving (used to be professional), fishing (angling and fly - even have my own fishing boat), fix my own cars, computers and computing, etc etc etc etc

Maybe what makes us pilots is the fact that we are just great adventurers at heart, i.e. I had nearly all those things above way before I was ever 'into' flying.

Indeed if the truth be told, way back when, I actually wanted to fly so that I could indulge all the other things (above) that I love - however I subsequently got hooked by the most adictive of them all - FLIGHT - now I can't imagine a day when I'd rather be on the ground than in the air and as such I barely have time for any of the above. So sad and yet glorious all in the same breath !

[before landing check list]

a psychologist told us as a group the pilots and cops are mostly 1st born males
I am 1st of 3........AND a cop lol

[coco-nuts]

something weird here. 1st of three,and no aviation backround in family.

[chaliedeltatango]

first wing buff in this tree
and I'm the only one...uno..solico :)

anyway jigsaw blue...any point to it? or just curious?

--------------------
I'D RATHER BE FLYING NOW

[jigsawblue]

Just curious, I will admit a fascination with
what I suppose you could call 'human factors'

And I'm getting more 'metaphysical' as I
get older. I'm probably losing it really. I'll be
sitting crosslegged, burning joss sticks and
chanting next.

But essentially I'm fascinated with this
obsession we have, why do we do it, what
drives us. If I had spent as much money and time
and perspiration on any other activity, I would be
successful and rich, instead of by my standards,
a failure because I have not yet reached the posiition
I crave, a paid flying job. But putting aside all modesty
I am damm good at a lot of things, raising money
being one. I have sidelines you wouldn't believe.
All aimed at raising cash for flying.
In my current job I'm highly regarded, sufficently so
that I was promoted without asking, constantly get
bonuses and was sent abroad for an important
project, despite the fact that I care nothing for
the job and just cruise along without really being
interested. Before you reply commenting on my
raving ego, I'm not unique, most of my pilot
friends are similar and if you look at your own
history before getting a pilot job, even it you
worked in McDonalds weren't you employee
of the month once or twice?
Thinking about therefore,it there must be some
personality trait that is impelling me and most of
you in a particular direction. Over and above any
shallow need to earn a living.
So I suppose I'm looking for any reinforcement of
my perception of myself as a pilot whether it's
birth order or star sign.
Come to think of it perhaps those psychometric
tests all the airlines so love are in effect looking
for the very traits which first borns seem to have.

The large number of replies indicating a
preponderance of first born pilots is
a source of satisfaction to me. That perhaps,
if you want one, is the point of it all.

Born to fly? perhaps.

[chequesicks]

Jigsaw
Hate to buck the trend, but I'm the youngest of my parents' brood. However, following on from your observation that your younger bro is an engineer, I felt it worth noting that the eldest of my generation is a stripper. Any takers? :)

[jigsawblue]

Hmm Ja it vould seem to me zat you are
compezating vor ein elder sibling.
Your zibling have introduced inztabity in ze
family unit by ztripping.
You must zerfore corwect zis corruption
by becoming an authority figure. Thus you
vill have restored ze balance mithin ze
heimat.
Ach it is so obwious.
Sigmund
PZ I note you seem to associate being an
Engineer with stripping, most interesting
Your sexual fantasies must be fascinating.

[This message has been edited by jigsawblue (edited 01 July 2000).]

[The Guvnor]

Eldest of three, Libran, equestrian and a psychologist (amongst other interests!)

First-borns usually are more assertive - comes out of kicking sh*t out of their younger siblings; but at the same time are often more insecure (coz they were the apple of Mum and Dad's eye until said siblings came along - the real reason for the kickings!) which in turn means that they tend to be more macho.

Youngest sibs tend to be more free thinkers - much mre relaxed with their place in life.

------------------
:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[redsnail]

Strewth Crash Dive, what do you do in your spare time? Go fly??
:)


------------------
reddo
A Feral Animal.

[jigsawblue]

Crashdive, by any chance is your real name,
Bond, James Bond.
Seriously though it does illustrate my point
about high achievers in some aspects of life.

[smeg]

Youngest of three

[YakYak]

Time to upset the trand ala chequesticks.

Youngest of two. Female (eek!). Gemini. Not a musician. Elder brother is a soldier (what?!).

Don't know if I count as I'm a wannabe, but got my place/training sorted out. I figure younger siblings don't fly as they are inherently scared of brothers/sisters beating/ biting/ punching them if they tried to do better than the elders. Thus there is a general ethos of 'make do'.

(Except among the few of us who were real rebels and want to shove it up big sib's over pompose @rse, after all those years of setting favoutrite teddy on fire.)

Help. I think I'm dangerously close to opening fire on a bus full of Nuns. Sort than one out Sigmund.

[Wholigan]

Yougest of 3. I wonder if I decided that, as I couldn't win with fists on the ground, I'd get into something that dropped bombs and fired guns, rockets and missiles?!?!?!?

Yak, can I borrow Sigmund when he's finished with you?? And to follow up one of your posts on another thread --- are you really pretty and blonde??? (That's not why I e-mailed my support to you on yet another matter though!)

[jigsawblue]

Quite a few youngest childs too. Are you guys
the fighter pilots/ aerobatic/helicopter types.

Of course while there seems to be a
preponderance of first borns the desire to
fly isn't just confined to them. I believe that
I would have wanted to fly whether I was
first, middle or last, male or female but it's
hard to prove.
And Sigmund is available for all your personal
problems especially the juicy......sorry emotional
ones.

[Wholigan]

A slight aside. It used to be said that most fighter pilots' first born are girls. Does that apply to all pilots? Straw poll responses?

[chequesicks]

Wholigan
Wouldn't accuse myself of being a "fighter" jock - I'm cursed with the F3. But the pilots on my unit, between us, have 18 girls and 3 boys (figures correct at time of going to press; us top-gun types get quite a lot of nookie!!!) Sigmund?

[jigsawblue]

Ja Ja, fighter piloten haf many female jung kinder
but ze anzwer ist not psychological but
physiological. Excessive G force acting on ze
ahem joystick has this effect. Zis is a well known
phenomenom But normal piloten do not haf much
in the way of G forces zo zis
preponderance of frauleins ist not seen.
Zis explains why zo many junge frauleins
vant to be piloten. Ze are alle daughters of
fighter piloten.
Az fur ze fighter pilots ego, vell zat is due to
overcompensation for poor equipment, The
size of the ego is directly and inversely related
to size of joystick.
Sigmund

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

There is a positive wealth of data on this topic.

The basic conclusion is that first born children do form a statistically significant proportion of pilots. This has been an accepted truth of most Uni Psychology departments for years.

Reasons are numerous. First borns tend to be more successful. Becoming a pilot is deemed as being successful by society (don't let on its all money for old rope, young hosties and cheap beer for Gawds sake!). Older siblings have higher self esteem, social confidence and desire to leads; psychometirc traits found to be high in line pilots in both military and civil operations.

You'll find load of dats to back this up. I cite, but in no means exclusively:

Sherman, 1995;
Sherman, Helmreich, Smith, Wiener, and Merritt, 1992; Gras,
Moricot, and Poirot-Delpech, 1989; Rogers, Tenney, and Pew,
1991; Tenney, Rogers, and Pew, 1988; Sarter (1991); Woods and Sarter (1992);
Madigan and D.Tsang, 1992

Do a psychology degree, it enables you to study pilots, flighdecks and ergonimics whilst still leaving enough time to be the hardest drinking member of the Geology society. Which is saying something, in Norht Staffordshire!!

Regards,

WWWelshmam

[exeng]

Came second I'm afraid.

Regards
Exeng

[Wholigan]

Coming second is usually very highly appreciated!!!!!

[Ganf]

Eldest of four. FJ pilot, first child girl. Last (?) child boy when I was in ground tour. Star sign irrelevant 'cos it's b*ll*x. And what do you mean, jigsawblue - I've got a huge ego and my willy's tiny. No - what I meant was......

[YakYak]

Whooligan

Brunette actually, and no way am I going to let the men on the flight carry my gear. Must be single-minded determination inherited from the Russian lineage. Not that that's a suggestion of shocking eastern-european good looks or anything.......

Sigmund - Was sind ze phsyiological effects of ze massively inflated FJ ego, on ze female fighter-pilots/ Navigators?

[jigsawblue]

Mein Gott, YakYak voor englisch ist appaling
But I understand perfectly.
Unfortunately I cannot say, particularly as I
have been dead for some time now.
But I suspect that the current crop of
female FJ's are the guinea pigs for this
research.
As for ze sexual aspects well I must
research that.
Ach meine Englisch ist improved.......
Oh verdamdt there it goes again.
Sigmund

[jigsawblue]

Oh and Ganf you must be a Scorpio or an Aries
They always think astrology is B****x

[CrashDive]

Don't knock it, because astrology proves one very important scientific fact - namely, that there's one born every minute !

[Wholigan]

No - Ganf just thinks astrology is a cross between "Taurus" and "Crappus".

[Stall Inducer]

2nd of 3.

[Checkboard]

3rd of 3. Eldest is a Doctor, middle is a Chemical Engineer (I am the only one in my family without at least one degree.)

Music: Can't play a note, don't own a CD player, drive with the radio off.

Sign: Virgo (who cares?)

Equestrain/motorcycles: last time I was on a horse (a Shetland pony) I was a 6 foot 15 yo, and I fell off. Don't ride motorcycles either.

Do fly aeros though :)

[YakYak]

Sigmund

Mein Englisch ist nicht so schlecht wie deine Deutsch? Na ja?

What are these suggestions of sexual practices? Hey Whooligan - do female FJ's get more nookie as well?

[John Farley]

Singleton.

YY
You are the youger of two. Now is not the time to let your standards slip. England expects.

[Wholigan]

Depends on whether or not they've got sexy Russian features Yak!!!

[jigsawblue]

Yak Yak Aha zu are overcompensating vor
einem feelings of inferiority by attacking me
and meinen ability to sprechen zie Deutsch.
Clearly you are obsessed with me.
A few sessions on my couch wiil soon
sort that.
Sigmund

But we've drifted off the point, there does seem
to be a majority of first borns and singletons.
But of course thats not the whole story and
the attraction to flying isn't just confined to
elder siblings.
Human beings are more complicated than that.
Thank goodness.

[Grey Area]

My Brother isn't, but I am!

[snafu]

Eldest of two and Libra

[Say again s l o w l y]

Eldest of two.
Hmmm seems to be some sort of link here!

[Self Loading Freight]

I'll ask my Prof of Anthropology pal about this, but aren't we deep into the primate pattern encoded in primogeniture here?

The firstborn have a unique advantage in that they have a first-hand education in the sort of familial power structures that pretty much define human society, and as top dog among their peers to boot.

If you want to be a pilot, you're going to have to have ambition, stickability and a certain amount of self-confidence -- talent helps, but in general you get further quicker with limited talent and unbounded confidence. (What happens when you get there is another matter...). If you're used to responsibility early in life as the senior kid, such things come easier later.

It'd be interesting to see similar stats for other professions, such as medicine and the law.

R

[skybabe]

One and Only

[the wizard of auz]

First of five and barely a pilot.
and my eldest is a pretty good little pilot .

[clear to land]

Youngest of four, and only male.

[ehwatezedoing]

As I was saying, oldest of two

Jigsawblue,
G forces are for fighter jockeys as G spot for civilian pilots :)

Anyway, I got two girls :)

[homer j]

Elder of two!.....By the way,CHECKBOARD! - with that many posts, I think It's time for you to turn the computer off, take the dog for a jog in the park,(with a frisbee!), buy a CD player, deafen your neighbours with Van Halen, enjoy the aeros, and fly safe!!

[This message has been edited by homer j (edited 07 July 2000).]

[compressor stall]

singleton.

Starsign for the insecure who need external 'explanations' for coming to terms with consciousness (bit like religion)...Capricorn.

Hobbies are outdoor sports - climbing, caving, skiing etc..

------------------
Those who restrain desire do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained.
William Blake

[PilotsPal]

I'm the eldest of three girls (born within an indecently short period of time as my mother thought that breastfeeding was an effective contraceptive).

[Pullup]

middle of 3

[Desperate Dan]

4 of 5, sailor, equestrian, music lover rather than musician and, for what it's not worth, cancerian.

Do pilots have girl children? Well many of my friends do, but my only child's a boy.

[Ganf]

Jigsawblue,

I'm neither Scorpio nor Aries, which just proves my point that astrology is a load of 80110x - what Wholigan said!

[jigsawblue]

Taurus then? Or is that a load of old bull?

[Bendo]

Gender of Offspring:
Research indicates that the greater your alcohol consumption, gentlemen, the greater your chances of fathering girls. All the knucks I know have had girls; weather this is related to Gs or the cheap taxpayer-subsidised booze in the Officers Mess, I dunno.

First Born:
A quick poll amongst all the pilots at my airport (including all my students) indicates that while 80% of the PROFESSIONAL pilots here are first born (8/10), a large proportion of the PPLs are not.

There IS a high correllation between being First-born (or only child) and being a "white-collar" professional amongst the PPLs, whereas many of the "blue collar" PPLs (lots of coal mining here) are second-born or later.

As WWW noted, there is a mountain of research on this topic and the vast majority of the research indicates the First-Born are more inclined towards socially "desireable" careers such as medicine, Plyin', Law.

...and yeah I am first born, enjoy sailing and horseriding, skiing, etc etc etc.

Actually now that I think about it, horses are a pain in the **** . Gimme a Bike.

Sigmund: There is a place for you on this BB.... go down to Misc Forums and take the third Forum on your right!

[ehwatezedoing]

-"Barman, I'llllll take anozer 1 ..."

[bird on the wire]

they had me and decided that was enough

------------------
they bought their tickets - they knew what they were getting into

[hooperfly]

eldest of three, 146 captain with a UK regional.

[Poor Pongo]

Lead of a three ship.

Music? Art? Animals? Star signs? Nope.

Skis, Parachutes, Quick machinery - that's more like it!

PP

[Poor Pongo]

Lead of a three ship.

Music? Art? Animals? Star signs? Nope.

Skis, Parachutes, Quick machinery - that's more like it!

PP

Damn this flood control!

[WeatherJinx]

Eldest of two :-)

[WeatherJinx]

What the hell - Beer Appointment cancelled, Airline was c**p, nothing better to do - tragic I know, but here's a snapshot of the data in our amusingly pointless thread at Z20:30. By the way, I'm a Scorpio, and yes, I do think Astrology is B****x!

Sample includes PPLs/Students, but excludes Self Loaders:


http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~pwalsh/pprune/pprune.jpg

[WeatherJinx]

It seems as though this thread doesn't accept binary attachments...

you can see the data here (If you're interested!)

www.users.totalise.co.uk/~pwalsh/pprune (http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~pwalsh/pprune)

[WeatherJinx]

Apologies for the part- appearance of my highly unscientific chart!

I think it must've corrupted whilst being uploaded to the FTP site, and I'm afraid I couldn't be a**ed to do another one, having trashed the original on my pc....

Suffice it to say, at the time of the snapshot the first-borns had it at 64%, with the babies second at 18%, singletons at13% and middlings rear-guarding at 5%.....

Have a good weekend - now for that pint....
Philip

[Squadronleader]

Youngest of two.

Hve to add that eldest of same two is a pilot as well.

SQL

[Titus Adduxas]

Oldest of 3.

[GOSLUG]

I'm first of four!

------------------

[KERDUNKER]

Eldest of four

[goat737]

youngest (by far) of three.

[Ian Hamilton]

Only Child

My father took one look at me and expired!

[jkden]

Youngest by far, of 3. Considered the "spoiled baby" by all who know and love me! Meant in a good sort of way, of course.

Anyone who belives the planets and star atrrangements have any impact on your day-to-day life is totally and completely nuts, and should be the subject of much ridicule and scorn. My horoscope said I should deride other people for no good reason today...

I read some of this thread with interest, are there ANY middle children who fly? Or did I miss those posts?

[Dave Incognito]

Yes there are, middle of 3.

[Dupre]

Youngest of 2 here (though i'm only a student pilot at the mo . . .)

[hi on oz]

I'M THE LAST OF 6. My second eldest brother got his private licence only. I have 20,000+ hrs Commercial Operations.

------------------

[WhatsaLizad?]

.

[WhatsaLizad?]

Second of Three.
Older brother.


When we were young, I attempted many
times to become the oldest, and my older
brother tried as much to be the only son.

We both survived and are good friends
now. :)

Do I still get points on the psyco
scale for trying to "upgrade my position"?

Presently 121 FO in U.S.

[White Knight]

Eldest of four, and both of my sons want to be pilots too (I'm saving up..)

[Localiser]

Eldest of two!

[Tor]

Yougest of two. However in to bikes, horses and used to sail ;)

Why did I become a pilot then?
1) For the money
2) The girls
3) The prestige
Oh well - never mid no. 3 :)

Tor ;)

[yogibear]

Only child....

[yogibear]

as i was saying b4 being rudely interrupted by my laptop........

Breach birth
face down
almost 30 hrs of labour for Mom.....

explains why I became a rotorhead huh ?

Seeya

The Bear.........

P.S: Am also virgo and hobbies incl. scuba ,squash,horseriding and fast motorcycles(Yamaha FZR-R1)and....hold on...just rearranging the salt and pepper pots....(virgo trait..sheepish smile).


------------------
Chopper pilots do it vertically....:-)

[This message has been edited by yogibear (edited 25 August 2000).]

[Waloo]

Eldest of two.

[teeteringhead]

Younger of 2 sons.
At the risk of being a pedantic git, youngEST or eldEST, as the superlative form, should strictly only be used in the case of 3 or more; whereas youngER or eldER, as the comparative, is appropriate for 2.
IE elder of 2, eldest of 3.
Also got 3 kids (that I know of), 2 female, one male. Is that the "g", the pressure, the booze or what?

------------------
tee-head

[amy]

I'm the baby. I have two older brothers. And yes I am definitely the most creative...ie NOT a conformist

[Wig Wag]

Bucking the systen here !

1. Youngest of five.

2. Learned responsibility early when my Dad died and I looked after Mum when I was 14.

3. 4 grouchy elder siblings.

4. Member of Mensa.

5. Play music.

6. Jet airline Captain and enjoy my job.

7. Don't like working for ******s.

[Elbowgrease]

3rd born of 4

[JJflyer]

I am youngest... my brother, oldest of four also flies. My dad retired as DC10 Capt about 10 years ago and now my 18 year old nephew is getting into the business as well.

JJ

[whatsarunway]

rotorhead.

oldest of 3

[Timelord]

Eldest of four, ex mil, and most interesting now I check data, of many fighter mates, preponderance of daughters, including self. Back at a better time of day, gotta fly!

[batgirl]

just to confuse everyone...

I was raised an only child. (adopted)

Later I found out I was the youngest on my natural mother's side, but the oldest on my natural father's side.

So.... I was the only child, the eldest, the youngest, AND the middle child (if you combine both families). Ha! I'm a statistical nightmare. :) :)

[This message has been edited by batgirl (edited 06 August 2000).]

[fifthcolumns]

I have to say, this must be the biggest thread
since the great religious debate.
I notice too the that the younger/est are
beginning to assert themselves.
Always looking for attention the little
tykes.
Is anyone keeping score?

[Leonardo]

Most senior of four, ex Military single crew mudmover. Brothers all 'vocational' rather than society related success stories - they're happy.
When I see who I have to fly with, I'm not always - obviously younger scions who can't really cut it.
(Or female , how do they feature in your stats so far Siggy ? )

[Splot1]

Captain of a crew complement of four.

------------------
Helicopter pilots get it up faster !

[massingbird]

1 of 2

[Thud_and_Blunder]

2nd of 4 - big bruv got chopped on Gnats and decided to work for a living instead.

music - play the cassette recorder (badly).

cars/bikes - if snag can't be fixed by wiping mirror/emptying ashtray (on a bike?) then its obviously too technical for my little brain.

outdoor stuff - get nosebleed on top of a ladder.

star-sign - er, Methodist, I think...

[Brakes...beer]

Elder (thanks teeteringhead) of 2, used to beat little bro up for first 15 years until he got bigger than me, yacht sailor, conservative, turned down promotion in boring job to fly.

Agree starsign is bollix: what possible influence could the gravity of a star billions of miles away have on me?

ATPL Dad - elder of 2.

[overstress]

Spooky!

Eldest of 3
No family aviation background
Sailing & Motorbikes
Starsign = bollux

PS: I would watch a video about otters

[dingducky]

2nd of 4 girls and nowhere near the top of the pecking order!
aquarius
no family history of aviation
couch potato
tone deaf

[Azure]

fifthcolumns

I kept a running tab, (OK, OK, I'm at the end of my vacation...getting a little bored...nothing better to do tonight.)

So far "not scientific BTW" I count, including my husband ....59 first born
....16 second born of which 9 are also last born, and 3 of which has an elder sibling also a pilot.
....12 third born, and interestingly enough, 9 are the youngest also
....4 fourth born
....1 fifth born
....1 sixth born
....11 only child
Like I said, not scientific, but first born do by far outnumber the others.


[This message has been edited by Azure (edited 08 August 2000).]

[Adamant]

Elder of two
Aquarius

[the maker]

Jigsawblue,
Did it ever occur to you, that if you had reversed the question (ie told a story about the youngest in the family) that you would have had a total different result in answers?

I don't know much about that subject, but in the question lies the most favourable answer.....

Just thinking out loud...

[Localiser]

Eldest of two

Virgo

Play piano

LOC :)

[This message has been edited by Localiser (edited 08 August 2000).]

[Blonde Ambition]

Elder of two.
Reddo, I love my motorbike!!

[go]

oldest of three other two are train drivers..
i must have got the short straw..

------------------

[Speechless Two]

Eldest of three. My father was the elder of two and flew in WW2 - came across the pond with one of the first Liberators.

[NCC-1701e]

Youngest of 8. Not a conformist. I was the accident, 6 years gap to my elder bro.

[Fluckbynight]

5th of 5

[zaza]

Ain´t this wierd?

My details

Eldest of two
Diploma level in piano and violin
Virgo (sod all difference that makes, tho)
PPL (assume that counts as pilot)
Engineer
Got one child, daughter
No aviation history in family, tho cycling out to Staverton airport was a regular treat when I was young

[kieran]

Eldest of 3, but only a wannabe

[jigsawblue]

Coming out of retirement, just this once,
mind you, to answer 'the maker's'
question. Yes the original question
was loaded, however and thank you
Azure for this, the overwhelming majority
of respondents are first born or only chlldren
which is effectively the same thing.

This means one of several things.
Most pilots or wannabees are first born.
Most PPRuNers are first born
Most younger siblings don't bother
replying.
Most internet users are first born
The only thing we can be sure of is that
most respondents are first born.
However given this admittedly subjective
evidence and other sources it does appear
that there is a preponderance of first borns
in the profession for all the reasons discussed
in previous posts.
Intuitively I believe this is in fact the case.

Thanks to everyone for replying if it gets
much bigger it'll probably crash the forums soon.

Well that's it, my final post on PPRuNe. I'll still
be here in other ways.
Bye

[Golden Parrot]

Eldest of two...

A320 F/O

[Brilliant]

Youngest of Two

[Alpha]

Eldest as well

[Midnight Blue]

I am 31, F/O ATR 42/72, flying gliders since 1983 .My sister is now 35 and got her drivers license 4 years ago. Isn´t it weird...?

[Constable Clipcock]

Youngest of six. Two each much-older half-brothers and half-sisters (same father, different mother), and one full brother. Never even met the half-siblings, but elder full-brother is full-blown loser (less-than-honorable discharge from the Army, criminal record, drug addict, etc.).

Each parent youngest of three.

Family members with aviation background: Myself — began life as a frustrated wanted-to-be astronaut, reduced to aspiring to become flying cop as a "next-best-thing" to being a military pilot. On the up side, there is much to be said for putting real dope smugglers in jail, vs. chasing imaginary MiGs in a fast-mover. FAA PPL(ASEL), Ground Instructor (Advanced/Instrument), some helo and glider time. Finishing CPL ASEL/RH(IFR) on the proverbial "20-Year Plan" (due to severe fiscal constraints). Military parachutist. Prior work experience as an aircraft mechanic (unlicensed). One cousin (youngest of four, son of my father's sister) who is a PPL holder, owns his own security systems business and has no interest in flying professionally. Two other cousins (7th and 8th of 8, sons of my father's brother) are nonflying aviation support types in the US Navy: one an air-traffic controller, the other a technician. Neither has any interest in ever actually flying however.

Family vocational/professional background: Males are blue-collar, females are white-collar. Go figure! Electricians appear to be the predominant trade, though there have also been several cabinetmakers, carpenters, sheet-metal repairmen, machinists, two cement finishers and one millwright.

Family military background: Nearly all of the males (none of the females) have served in the military, though none have actually made a career of it. Unless you want to count the fact that I'm still a Sergeant in the Army National Guard (the US counterpart of the TA for you Brits!) Four went on to become police officers: myself, two uncles, and maternal grandfather. Plenty of us (myself included) have become NCOs/POs, but none have held commissioned rank.

Academic Remarks: Myself: BA(history) with a minor in mathematics. Graduated police academy at age 35. Working knowledge of four languages (English, Hebrew, German, Spanish). One uncle: BA(sociology) with a minor in psychology. Several cousins (all female): various diplomas in accounting, business management, and computer programming. Older brother: high-school dropout.

Astrological sign: Aquarius (though I don't believe in astrology, I've decided to answer this one anyway).

Riding-related matters: Some equitation as a boy. Fell off a neighbor's 125-cc Honda once when I was 12! Glad I haven't been on a bicycle since age 11, ever since I read about Perineal Blunt Trauma! Rafting/canoeing (ocean and whitewater) Aerobatics (I can squeeze 8 seconds of zero-g out of a C172!) BFM/ACM in a 2000 Ford Crown Vic! Not that I get to do that very often, but I might be persuaded to let YakYak play with the siren :).

Gender-of-offspring: Mine: N/A (no kids) — not married yet (aval yesh tikva!) PPL-holder cousin's: two sons, no daughters.

------------------
Anybody out after 2 AM is either a turd, a cop or a pilot. Or any combination of the three!

[This message has been edited by Constable Clipcock (edited 19 August 2000).]

[Mr Bombastic]

2nd of 3

[Mooney]

Father, Pilot- he was the youngest child to be a Pilot with a elder brother.

Me, youngest of 3 (two sisters), Pilot.

Now- who's going to work all these stats out!

------------------
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to
make all of them yourself.

[BreakRight]

Currently an Engineer
Desperate Wannabe
Eldest of 3


------------------
Go get em Floyd!

[The Zombie]

youngest of two......is that bad?
People keep asking if I have thought of catering...!

Jigsawblue where are you going?

[beeswax]

eldest of 2

Are you going to add all this up?

[TowerDog]

Nr. 2 out of 2.


------------------
Men, this is no drill...

[Seaking]

No1 of 4.Heli and plank driver.ex army.Leo,as is my wife who is cabin crew and also my son who is only 3 but is going to be my Capt. someday if he continues showing his present interest and i can save some,lots... of money.Dad was no 1 of 13!!!Ex merchant navy officer from the deck,so there is something in this it seems.All i know is that i love my job,its a hobby i get paid to do and yes i still build model aeroplanes and read Biggles.Must be something in the beer :)

Check 3 greens.....

[tealady]

Me - No 2 in family
Spouse- No 1
Daughter - 1 and only
Daughter has 2 great uncles who were fighter pilots in WW2, Kittyhawks and Beaufighters.
She has just passed RAAF flight screening with a "highly recommended". Goal: To be RAAF's first FA18 driver

[tealady]

Me - No 2 in family
Spouse- No 1
Daughter - 1 and only
Daughter has 2 great uncles who were fighter pilots in WW2, Kittyhawks and Beaufighters.
She has just passed RAAF flight screening with a "highly recommended". Goal: To be RAAF's first female FA18 driver

[av8tion]

Eldest of two

[LowNSlow]

Page 2 of 2

Engineering Degree

Used to ride geegee's until I duffed my back

Used to ride motorbike's until I scared myself silly

Still drinking

Dad ex WW2 F/E on Halifaxes. Uncle ex WW2 WOP/AG on Blenheims

Aries. I used to think it was b*ll*x until over a period of time I met 3 women of different generations but all born on 10th April. Their personality traits were so similar it was scary. Now I just avoid women born on 10th April.



------------------
When the wheels stop turning you're high enuff. CubTrek. To slowly go...

[Only angels have wings!]

Time to throw spanners in the works. Other half is the baby boy in his family, and has to be coaxed into doing anything more adventurous than thwacking leather with willow (which he's awfully good at)but he's a classic high achiever.
On the other hand, I'm the 1st of 3 girlies do the usual sailing, skiing, motorcycling, music stuff but got chucked out of flying school and used to be an engineer. Does that completely mess up the theory?

[gashshag1]

#4 out of 4,3 girlies 1 geeza (me)

[Firestorm]

Only son; two younger sisters.

[Max Continuous]

Third out of four.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Magnificent thread, thanks to Jigsaw for kicking it off.

Now that everyone's in the right frame of mind can we do left handers huh - please?

Regards from the first born, left-handed Towers

[dingducky]

i just watched the documentry me first.
they claimed that first borns were more likely to be pilots and last born to be skydivers.
hmmmmm well i have often had the desire to throw my younger sisters out of an aircraft, without parachutes :)

as for the left handed thing.
my parents and two younger sisters are right handed
me and my older sister are left handed
left handed people are smarter you know! :)

------------------
don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive.

[Hybrid]

Me - only child, military pilot
My Dad - only child, military pilot
My Grandad - middle of 6 sons, balloonist!

[fifthcolumns]

What about left footed first borns?
As part of a group of 8 sent for speccial training, presumably the best people were sent. 4 were left handed and I was left footed, odd that.

[redsnail]

Righthanded. Rest of details are back somewhere. :)
Younger bro (not a pilot) is left handed. Mum left handed, so was her mum..

------------------
reddo
A Feral Animal.

[traveler]

Hi, youngest of the 2. No aviation history in family. But father went to sea at 17, got to steer the big boats. (he was 1st of 4) Older sister thought about flying, decided not to, married a pilot ! (true). windsurfing, diving, most ball-sports, right-handed, Virgo, no kids. (I think).

[QNH]

Youngest of two, Left Hander. Uncle youngest of two and left hander QFI.

[InFinRetirement]

Eldest of eight.

[miss approach]

Youngest of 3, right handed, no history of flying (until me) in immediate family apart from an uncle who flew in the war.

:)

[goaround7]

First born, motorcycling, sagitarius, more macho (karate, rugby etc) than younger brother (although he's bigger 'n me), much less mature, adventurous (one of two man crew on London to Cape Town trip but in a Landy not a Airbus), chasing up getting crop spray rating with an eye on rotor switch in a couple of years, failed BA cadet scheme ten years ago on first psych questionnaire, wife also pilot but second daughter of lifetime aviation engineer (colour blind failed comm pilot second child with sisters), computer pioneer father left handed, so do stuff he taught me as a lefty and what my teacher mum taught me with my right (write right handed but use mouse with left, fold arms either way etc.)

But must agree with earlier comment : most of us who replied were looking to 'fit' or buck the trend. Did anyone answer ' for the good of the survey' or 'out of interest' ?

Still, great topic !

[Need4speed]

Oldest of three

[autothrottle]

Oldest of two.Dad ex BEA,Grandfather/Great Uncle both RAF in WW2.

[Constable Clipcock]

Basically right-handed, though I perform some tasks better with the left hand — e.g.: handling a fork, operating a computer mouse, changing magazines of a weapon. Fold arms and interlace fingers left-over-right.

Right-eyed.

Brother and paternal grandmother left-handed. Both parents, other grandparents, and all half-siblings, aunts, uncles and cousins right-handed.


Left-brained, barely. I'm about 55:45 left hemisphere dominant, almost balanced between the two hemispheres. Speaking of brain function, I'm slightly more visual- than auditory-dominant, thus almost-but-not-quite centered on that one as well.

Personality type INTJ (http://www.typelogic.com/intj.html) (Myers-Briggs).

------------------
Anybody out after 2 AM is either a turd, a cop or a pilot. Or any combination of the three!

[This message has been edited by Constable Clipcock (edited 08 September 2000).]

[TyroPicard]

Middle of three, but my firstborn (male)will soon beOne2.

[Deputy]

2nd of 4, left handed, last in family to get a drivers licence but first to get Pilots licence. No other pilots in family

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Only me, but I am left handed.

[lets go nads]

OLDEST of THREE or is it eldest? i can never remember

[CaptainSquelch]

No 2 of 4
Son No. 1 won't be pilot, No 2 just might and daughter (No3) could.

[AntiCrash]

No. 1 of 1 son of 3 of 7 . How about the ta ta's on 7 of 9?

------------------
AArgh! My Bvwain Hurtz...

[Airprox]

Youngest of 3

------------------
AP

[scroggs]

Me: eldest of 4, ex-mil now B747s
Dad: eldest of 5, mil pilot for 37 years (Lightnings, mainly)
His Dad: eldest of lots, B17 AEO in 100Gp, WW2
(Other grandfather was a coalman and politician. Now what does that say?!)

[PA-28]

It's already been pointed out that the question is 'likely' to provoke answers from first borns.

In the UK family sizes arn't that big, 2.4 kids and a Volvo or whatever. First born fits all single kids and half of all two kid pairs, even if you get born into a famiily of three kids you get a 1/3 rd chance of being first. I dont know how to do the maths myself, but I do know statistics can be surprisingly counter-intuitive, maybe the proportion of first born kids is up in the 75 - 80 % mark anyway ?

I'm not getting into class and social heirarchy here but, if you are one of five compared to one of one, the singleton gets five times the resources, attention, money !, for life or until two comes along. Flying is expensive, it helps to start young ...

Eldest of three, motorbikes, V8s, computers ... Dammm !

Pa-28

[Overstretch]

Eldest of 2, Right handed, Mil pilot and QFI no connections with flying in family, younger sister joined BA at stewie.

[PaulDeGearup]

Eldest of 3, right handed, ex mil and QFI no history of aviation in family. Most predecessors were Army tho yonger bruv joined Navy and no 3 RAF.

[Lite-Iron flyer]

Interesting topic!
I'm a CPL/MEL and a first born. My father was a PPL/SEL and also first born. Cousin is flying corporate for Textron and is a first born...Hmmmm...think I detect a pattern!
Cheers.

[Mac the Knife]

Dunno how/if it relates to aviation, but a quick check of my surgical mates showed a six-on-six for firsties and 2/6 for lefties(?). Curiously, gasmen were 1/6 and 0/6.

The patient flies and I have an FO and an FE....

[Skycop]

I used to instruct on a military helicopter unit where there were 5 QHIs. We were all left handed and three of us had the same christian name.

Just call me, right.

[captbmc]

YEP- OLDEST OF 3, FORMER U.S. FAST JET DRIVER & NOW AIRLINE CAPTAIN.

[spud]

Only one (and left handed)

[AirWolf]

There is no Choice.

They kick us out of the nest first.

Of course we must learn to fly for a living, when there is no floor under you you learn to fly or die.

In times past we went of to war or the crusades.

(spelling was not a requirement to fly aicraft, I tink)

Airwolf

[rum]

Oldest of three, Right handed, left eyed,with no history of flying in family.
Middle bro is the skydiving , bungee jumping, paragliding lunatic with the brains.

[Triple B]

Middle of 4, Oldest boy, left handed.
Expecting first child and will not be surprised to see a beautiful little girl.