Australian ATC to strike

[greenslopes]

Reported in "The Australian", Vote taken today towards a possible strike.
Whilst on the other side of the radio, I personally support the crew in ATC.
You folk do a tremendous job and you are worth every cent.
Whilst I don't enjoy closed airspace, I would rather you were well paid and not needing to do massive O'time to keep the place running.
Good Luck!

[Mr. Hat]

Here is the story...

Air traffic control strike threatens Australian airports | Travel News | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,28318,25040335-5014090,00.html)

Air traffic control strike threatens Australian airports

AAP

February 11, 2009 04:50pm

PASSENGERS could find themselves stranded in Australian airports as air traffic controllers threaten to go on strike.

Airservices Australia, which employs the controllers, claims workers have been coordinating mass sick days in a series of unofficial strikes.

But the results of an official ballot on industrial action will be announced tomorrow.

The controller's union, Civil Air, called off Christmas industrial action, but was almost certain members have voted to go on strike in the coming weeks.

Strikes could start as soon as February 24.

While Transport Minister Anthony Albanese would not talk about the possibility of airports grinding to a halt nationwide, opposition transport spokesman Warren Truss warned of coming chaos.

"Airlines have privately indicated that they are likely to cancel services rather than allow planes to fly in airspace which may or may not be monitored by air traffic controllers," Mr Truss said.

He said much of the union's demands seemed excessive, but also called on the government to show what plans it had to counter strike action.

"A full industrial war at our airports is simply not needed at any time, but right now it is lunacy.

"Our nation can ill-afford to have its response to the economic downturn hindered by the wage demands of a handful."

Sticking points in the negotiations between Airservices Australia and Civil Air have centred around a massive pay rise and retaining unlimited sick leave.

The union argues unlimited sick leave is necessary in an industry where sick workers could potentially put lives at risk.

Counting of the ballot, to be overseen by the Australian Electoral Commission, will start on Thursday morning and a result will likely be known in the afternoon.

[undervaluedATC]

And where are the headlines that say:

"UNCONTROLLED AIRSPACE A THREAT TO AIR SAFETY"???????:mad:

[Mr. Hat]

sshhh its a secret! Its all about making money isn't it?:ugh:

[Jabawocky]

Just all do 9am-5pm shifts......... :E

It worked in MCMLXXXIX :ooh:..........well sort of :ouch:

J:E

[KRUSTY 34]

Well done TFN.

You are about to go down in history as the man who presided over the greatest industrial F#ck up in recent memory!

Or is that being a little harsh?

[Angle of Attack]

"Our nation can ill-afford to have its response to the economic downturn hindered by the wage demands of a handful."

What a stupid comment, no offense intended but regardless of economic situation try and replace this so called "Handful"? Bring on some coalition cronies to take over the job? Not so lol, because they are just a bunch of lawyer idiots rather than real workers, as usual you sink deeper into nothingness. I am quite surprised how the so called coalition are digging a hole heading towards a mine shaft actually but this just proves it.

I offer a solution pay up or offer alternatives! The obvious choice is pay up you fools because it is such a training intensive job that by the time you retrain others the whole airline industry is finished!

Bring it on! Strike even harder demand more conditions!

[apacau]

I heard that discussions between union and mgt went very well yesterday?

[peuce]

Can read the ASA Press Release now .....


" Over many years our Controllers have enthusiatically worked overtime and covered emergency duty. In fact, we have often received quite strong objections from Controllers when Overtime has been cut back, or when they think it has been unfairly distributed to others. It has been in the context of this historical environment that we have quite reasonably made our normal manpower calculations and forcasting.

Now we have the Controllers changing their minds. They now, quite unreasonably, expect the Organisation to pick up the pieces. Such a change in manpower resourcesing will take years to re-adjust.

We can only assume that this change of mind may be but a cynical attempt to blackmail the Country into giving them a 63% payrise. "

[peuce]

Hey guys ... you're in the big league now.
I'm just a pussy cat.

If you haven't got answers prepared for these questions by now ... well, you've lost already !

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

G'Day 'Peuce' et al,

RE Mr Hat's post -

Mr. Truss's statement - and HE is the 'Opposition'??

"Airlines have privately indicated that they are likely to cancel services rather than allow planes to fly in airspace which may or may not be monitored by air traffic controllers," Mr Truss said.

He said much of the union's demands seemed excessive, but also called on the government to show what plans it had to counter strike action.

"A full industrial war at our airports is simply not needed at any time, but right now it is lunacy.

"Our nation can ill-afford to have its response to the economic downturn hindered by the wage demands of a handful."

Sticking points in the negotiations between Airservices Australia and Civil Air have centred around a massive pay rise and retaining unlimited sick leave.

The union argues unlimited sick leave is necessary in an industry where sick workers could potentially put lives at risk."............end of quote.


Yeah 'Peuce', have to agree with you.

Key words / phrases...... to be refuted....IMHO...
'union's demands seemed excessive'..
'full industrial war'..
'right now it is lunacy'..
'wage demands of a handful'..
'massive pay rise'..
'unlimited sick leave'.. (when used out of context)..

In THIS economic climate, very powerful statement against you (ATC),
and could be turned to 'emotive' issues against you very easily,
as many small and not-so-small businesses going broke.

People hurting, and without public education / explanation / the facts will not be seen.

Where is your responding statement??

It is hardly a 'war' - WE all know that -
All you are after is your ENTITLEMENT of having a 'RDO' day off occasionally, but nobody else does......
and the pay issue will be another matter I would reckon.....(in this climate)

Good Luck girls and boys!!:ok:

[Jet_A_Knight]

I reckon it would be very prudent to engage the services of a top PR/Spin company to promote your cause effectively. It would be worth every cent.

Doesn't matter how justified you are (and I believe you are), the spin the public eats will make A HUGE difference to your campaign. All the public are going to hear are '63%' and 'huge payrise' - you'll be made to look like a bunch of greedy primadonnas.:eek:

ASA management will have the 'microphone' (so to speak) and saying whatever they like - you better be able to counteract that!

PR/Promotion: If they can push people like Beyonce and Christina Aguilera onto the world - they can do anything.

best of luck - you guys deserve it - and the rest of us deserve a air traffic system.

[max1]

Civilair does have a PR adviser. Civilair does put out releases refuting ASAs spin. Journalists do read these forums, so they can acquaint themselves with the facts, or at the very least be able to ask ASA some pointed questions.

Unfortunately the media are more concerned with sensationalising a story to get people to read or watch. Journalists are also time poor, it is easier to cut and paste ASAs sensationalist spin that actually try to uncover the story.

Warren Truss has said today that we only work 30 weeks a year, and that we are claiming a 60% payrise on an average salary of $125k a year. Absolute rubbish, but puts pressure on the government.
We are just convenient fodder for political mudslinging, and to get the general public to howl in protest as they read/watch lazy journalism about supposedly greedy controllers holding the country to ransom.

It is what our media and politicians do. Maybe at some stage the tide will turn and ASAs mismanagement and bonus driven culture that has led us to this point will finally be uncovered. There are 50 people working in ASAs Corporate Relations area. How many ex-journos or friends of journos would be there?

I, like all controllers, am loathe to see anymore hardship imposed on the airlines. ASA like many organizations would rather spin the truth, which they have been doing for years, than admit any failings on their part. 50 people in the Spin Department. Why do we need that many?

[Led Zep]

A nice full page "advert" in the Australian might be enough to get the public's attention. Then you could put the facts out there for them, AsA spin free.

[Plazbot]

701 – Yes
42 - No

94.35%

Sounds pretty clear cut that the ATC group are of the same mind set.

[undervaluedATC]

Fantastic result!

Now who wants to lay odds that the papers tomorrow will be reporting "strike to occur in 7 days" before Civilair even makes a decision on what action will be taken. (an overtime ban is a much more likely starting point - given just how reliant the place is on overtime)

[max1]

I sincerely hope that we do not have to take action and that those idiots in BS castle in CB finally understand how cranky their ATC workforce is.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Plazbot,
Have sent a PM
Regards and Good Luck to all.

[LapSap]

no offense intended but regardless of economic situation try and replace this so called "Handful"?

That is a very dangerous attitude to have AoA. If your age is correct, you probably missed a few events in the past that proved that NOBODY is indispensable if push comes to shove. That is not to say that industrial action may not be warranted but you better have solidarity in accepting the consequences if you are put to the test.
Those who were around 20 years ago will remember we were cautioned by ex PATCO members about the possibility of "Sprinters". Look it up if you don't know.

I reckon it would be very prudent to engage the services of a top PR/Spin company to promote your cause effectively.

Forget it. Save your money. It won't matter what you say you will be the bad guys. Either accept that and to hell with the PR or don't take industrial action.

Good luck to you anyway. Just reminds me of why I left Airservices.

[Fly_by_wire]

How many ALMs are there? 42??

[undervaluedATC]

Fly_by_Wire - apparently there are 97 ALMS (that's right, 10% of the 'official number' of ATC's no longer actually control aircraft)

but not all of them are Civilair members, so they did not all get a ballot paper.

[Willoz269]

The first shots in this "ATC war" have been fired publicly and Civil Air is doing nothing other than release news via its website....I agree with a previous poster...the defamation campaign was always going to start by ASA management and their contacts, and they were always going to bring up doctored figures...Civil Air's response? who knows...nobody cares to read it...and ATCs hope to win the campaign???

A few full page adds in the Australian and other leading newspapers highlighting the bungling ineffectiveness of the CEO, plus the real status and demands of both parties will give you a shot at being in the race...otherwise....ATCs will lose, and their gripes will be heard on Civil Air's website, for the benefit of the few affected, and ignored by those whose opinions might help thurn things in ATC's favour.

This is the moment for a Public awareness campaign!

[denabol]

I guess this is also a biased report since the author has been dummy spitting on this issue for some time. The reason I keep seeing this stuff is that I find Business Spectator and Crikey have the guts to have a go, right or wrong.

Air traffic controllers endorse possible industrial action - Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2009/02/12/air-traffic-controllers-endorse-possible-industrial-action/)

[Jet_A_Knight]

You're gonna have to do a hellofalot better than just a 'PR Consultant'.

Forget it. Save your money. It won't matter what you say you will be the bad guys. Either accept that and to hell with the PR or don't take industrial action.

Doesn't matter how righteous you are!

Believe me, a lot of journalists are lazy. Most often, you can write the spin, send it off to them, and it will appear in their column - if it's done right - and by the right people.

Civil Air had better invest a considerable amount of its war chest in engaging a heavy duty advertising agency to spin this up - and that should be done, and an ad campaign put in place before the strike happens.

If your ads can 'propanagadise' the truth and make the government nervous, you'll be on to something.

If you don't - you're sure to get creamed by ASA management, and the government who will only look at what kind of impact it will have on their popularity.

That's the real world.

[max1]

Full page ad= $50-70k. Civilair has a membership of less than 1000.

ASA are quite willing to waste the airlines money, PR dept with 50 staff. Dick Dudley the head of PR is in the upper echelons, with a commensurate salary. Civilair cannot really afford to spend the money which will not guarantee balanced reporting anyway.
Rest assured Civilair puts out media releases too, however you can't force journalists to read them, or actually report the facts.

[rack 'n stack]

People - eyes on the prize.

Let's not provide the hacks with fodder. Let the CoM make the public running and the public comment. Believe that the public will think that every controller should be hung drawn and quartered.

Believe the networks will run the stories of mums and dads who missed weddings, sons who missed cricket matches and daughters who dipped out on the gymnastics quals.

Believe that the only people who will be your friends are the guys and gals sitting next to you at the stop work meeting.

Believe that solidarity is required and that ultimately the onus will fall on individuals.

Eyes on the prize.

[west atc]

Believe that the only people who will be your friends are the guys and gals sitting next to you at the stop work meeting.

The simple point is a Stop work meeting shouldn't be required, an overtime ban would be sufficient to make a point. Getting the minority who work incredible amounts of overtime that keep the place running to see the big picture and give up a little bit of extra money now for a long term benefit will show how much ASA rely on overtime.

During this time however it would also be a good idea to keep track of the amount of sick leave to counter the predictable response from ASA that the amount of sick leave has increased and that's why there are so many airspace closures.

[ferris]

I've always advocated the "softly softly" approach myself :p but what about some tricks from the Dick Smith playbook? Was Warren Truss under parliamentary privilege when he made those untruthful and defamatory statements reported in the Australian? Politicians just get used to lying, yet rarely seem to get called on it. A simple writ may get a LOT of press coverage, and help highlight the true position.

It depends on how hard you want to play, I guess.

[Capcom]

... indeed ol' mate ;)
.
.. the 'wheel' however is shot full o spanners tonight, and resembles a Lada Niva Gear box :E
.
DO NOT ADJUST YOUR SETS ;)

[Stationair8]

One wonder whose side Mr Dick Smith will take?

[Capcom]

... who gives a toss ... he is soap box wearing has been :ok:
.
NO radar vectors for you tonight cobba :}

[Sumdumguy]

Totally agree with all the other posters throwing their support behind the ATC'ers who do a great job, a 90% yes vote in favour of industrial action shows you guys are very unhappy with the current state of affairs. We saw with the Qantas Engineers in their negotiations that they only needed to impose an overtime ban to get Qantas to come to the party. Good luck and hope the situation is resolved quickly.

[Stationair8]

What no radar vectors for me or Dick?

[Capcom]

... nah :} .... you, Stan, Dave, Steve, and the rest of the boys will always receive the gold standard service :ok:
.
... as for him :E ... subject to traffic and all else :}

[Hempy]

If Dick has his way he'll be getting radar vectors onto a 5 mile final at GDO...

As Karen Carpenter once so hauntingly put it, it's 'only just begun'..

[Capcom]

Hempy me ol' If Dick has his way he'll be getting radar vectors onto a 5 mile final at GDO...

As Karen Carpenter once so hauntingly put it, it's 'only just begun'..
Picture a spoilt child .... aged ...errrmm .... 5 or so ...... balling and screaming over a spilt ice-cream :ooh: .. :hmm: .. :\ ..... :ugh: ......... :mad:
.
... not just begun ........ ITS OVER AND OUT !!!! .... unless of course the regulator and government say otherwise ..... :} :oh: ........ :ok: ;)

[RAAFASA]

[Was Warren Truss under parliamentary privilege when he made those untruthful and defamatory statements reported in the Australian? Politicians just get used to lying, yet rarely seem to get called on it. A simple writ may get a LOT of press coverage, and help highlight the true position.]


I emailed Mr Truss yesterday after reading his comments. I, very politely, corrected a few of his "misperceptions". Haven't hear anything back yet......

[ferris]

"Truss Alleges Firemen, Nurses Work Only 19 Weeks Per Year"
Truss-logic applied to any shiftworker......4 on, 4 off less 7 weeks annual leave equals 19 weeks.

Fight fire with fire. Journo's would leap on press releases if they were written with that sort of headline. Truss would certainly think twice about opening his gob on the matter any further. Being a polly, it would probably be more effective than a writ. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Not to mention how many weeks pollies work based on parliamentary sitting days........

Just an idea.

Fire with fire (or firemen).

[Duff Man]

please! insults from Warren Truss are like floggings from a warm lettuce. Don't give him any more oxygen by responding.

[Starts with P]

RAAFASA,

He was probably too busy replying to my and at least another 5 guys (that I know of) emails also correcting him/calling him a liar.

[ayrprox]

Just wanted to wish you all the best from a uk based controller, we too had a vote, about pension caps, amongst other things and unfortunately, our union appear to have had a sex change operation and lost whatever balls they had, so they pushed for a yes vote, citing job loss fears (which are going ahead anyway, under the voluntary redundancy heading) and got what they wanted a 60/40 split with only a 70% turnout!!. i'm glad that your members and union seem to be singing the same same song, and you have left management with no doubt as to your resolve. I wish you all the best

[concernaviat]

TFN needs to be taught a thing or two, bring on the industrial action.

Or did Sharran Burrow (ACTU) kiss TFN's ass too?

[Howard Hughes]

Not to mention how many weeks pollies work based on parliamentary sitting days...
Even then it's not compulsory to attend is it?;)

[Quokka]

To anyone in the audience who may consider that a rise in salary for Australian Air Traffic Controllers is not warranted, spare a thought for what the going rate in the market for Air Traffic Controllers is...

At yesterday's exchange rate, my annual salary was the equivalent of an Australian salary of AUD$273,874 and 32c (using the Australian Taxation Office Homepage (http://www.ato.gov.au) Comprehensive tax calculator).

Oh... and I'm on the lowest salary for Air Traffic Control in the region. Add a little over 50% to that figure for my brethren across the border.

[The Euronator]

Yes, & to give the european influence to this , mine is in the vicinity of
$AUD 407,000 (Gross)

This is why Australian ATC's are leaving in droves & have been for years.

[boree3]

And i` d say your worth every cent! Given any hard right turns for sequencing lately?:rolleyes:

[ferris]

In Bahrain it's currently $422,400 AUD (grossed up to provide equivalent before tax amount) or thereabouts.

Funny thing is, for a lot of guys, it's not only about the money. However, when your Australian employer treats you with utter contempt, and units overseas are waving around these sorts of dollars, it's not hard to see why so many leave.

And I do mean utter contempt. It's not a new story.

[The Euronator]

Boree 3,

Hey buddy, thanks for the vote of confidence :)

Nah added a couple more moves than the "For sequencing turn right heading 240" & " fill your boots" :}

BTW that figure includes Health insurance.

It doesnt include the $AUD 20,000 per child for education or the travel money of around $AUD 16,000 per year.:eek:

[Funk]

Makes ya think; I'm only netting AUD$210K + accommodation + school fees + health insurance + flights + 8 weeks leave and a liveable rotation.
Good luck fellas, its not just the money you don't want to get sold out for a few shekels and leave you can't use. :ok:

I'd come home for less than half of what I am getting now if you had a decent roster and access to usable leave.... Not much chance of that :rolleyes:

[keepemseperated]

The Euronator - what part of Europe are you in?

[BeGoneTFN]

You Guys, :{

Even without VR, quoting those numbers will evoke a stampede! :}

The goodwill is destroyed, the environment poisoned.

All for what if we were going to get to this point all along, they should have cut the crap and dealt seriously from the beginning we must have had at least 60-70 people abandon ship in the last 12 months.

Who can blame them, the EBA is but one issue, once resolved many more exist not least the CEO and the fluffers (hacks) that masquerade as managers arseholes!

People will still leave! :E

TFN you had your chance and you blew it, or was that GSH that blew you!

[Baileys]

And isn't Abu Dhabi still recruiting controllers with 5 years Area Radar and Eurocat or similar experience?

[expatoz]

I have finally succumbed and instead of just reading these posts now feel that i need to reply.

As an ex oz ATC who has moved onto new pastures (which at times were difficult, adjusting and coming to terms with a new enviroment, rules and regulations) and with a desire to return at some point I do want to say :

Before you stampede the grass is not always greener, while some such as the Euronator quote big dollars take a look at the big picture - the cost of living and what are the costs to yourself and your family when you relocate. In Europe, petrol, schooling and everyday costs are twice as much if not more, its all relative and while yes the salaries overseas are more than what you recieve in Oz its not 3 times.

Yes it is a raw deal for the ATC's in Oz at the moment and its not an enviroment that i would want to return too. I give them my full support and hope that the current negotiations result in what is deserved for the job that we do. All power to the union and members for showing strength and unity. Goodluck with the negotiations.

[The Euronator]

keepemseperated

Maastricht , The Netherlands & I work for Eurocontrol.

expatoz

Before you stampede the grass is not always greener which at times were difficult, adjusting and coming to terms with a new enviroment, rules and regulations

Totally agree, there are several issues & the main one is language. It is a huge impairment on your day to day operations & should never be underestimated. With time this will become less of an issue.
On the other side the working conditions eg Leave & days off are a huge incentive for Aussie ATC's to consider. I have never had any trouble obtaining leave & I am never pestered to do O/T , although it is available if I want.

take a look at the big picture - the cost of living and what are the costs to yourself and your family when you relocate. In Europe, petrol, schooling and everyday costs are twice as much if not more, its all relative and while yes the salaries overseas are more than what you recieve in Oz its not 3 times.

Agree to a point. Australia's housing prices on a Wage to Value ratio is up there, if not more than parts of Europe. Considering this is one of your biggest outlays this must be taken into consideration,additionally interest rates are around 4 - 5 % compared with 7.5 - 8% in Aus. On other day to day expenses eg. Car/Petrol/Groceries , yes Europe is more expensive , almost double.

Be advised that other ANSP's in Europe eg DFS Germany(5,500 Euro per month after tax ) & Ireland do pay less & have less conditions than what I have quoted. Although with the state of the Irish economy they could be living in mansions shortly :}

One other thing, the Euro is currently very strong compared to the $AUD & historically it has been around $AUD 1 = 63 Euro cents not 50 Euro cents as it is currently. So that gross figure normally sits around the mid $300k range.

[Plazbot]

Two problems for me going OS

1) Brisbane is in OZ.
2) I don't like foreigners.

[tonto papadopolous]

I agree Plazbot, stay where you are, after all, you did drive down Burke Street Mall when on course in Melb, imagine how you'd go driving overseas!!:)

not to mention the Englishman, the Irishman and the Scot actually injecting some life into the party, life can be pretty good with foreigners around :ok:

[Plazbot]

Very cryptic:ok:

The Irishman went to the Sand Pit (but came back ) and the Scotsman went to NZ (and stayed). The filthy Pom is still with us though.

[amberale]

+1 on the foreigners.

I always thought Jerricho was in the ME but it seems he's in Canada.:}

AA

[Jerricho]

amberale, you ever been in a Turkish prison? ;)

My comment here will span between this thread, the other mega-merged one, and probably any other thread about ANSPs.

From my experience, ANSPs that have been privatised, partially privatised or are being run like a business are all very apt at operating in a vacuum and making the same mistakes. Nav Can, NATS, ASA (feel free to add) have all comparably sh*t the bed with their cost and corner cutting with training and are paying the price, wage negotiations for the pointy end while the blunties behind the desks shuffling paper always get a nice little bonus/percentage out of it. When a bad idea comes along regarding the operation, the subject matter experts are ignored ("Bah, what do them controllers know?), and only a manager with very strong convictions/intestinal fortitude/morals will speak the truth (and probably be shown the door)

I'm sure we're all hearing these ones as well:

* "Oh, contract negotiation time is here, and given the global economy, we're going to have to tighten our belts, blah, blah, blah". What about when times were great?

* "We need to offer competitive remuneration to ensure we maintain the best managers". Uh, just who exactly need to be retained at the moment to wear the headsets?

* "We have to operate with fiscal responsibility to our customers". A controller by the very nature of what he/she does is the custodian of that one. Why run 3 miles on final when 4 or 5 will do eh? Because we are professionals, and take great pride in exercising our licences as efficiently and SAFELY as possible.

* "We want to be the world leader ANSP blah, blah, blah." Well, they say mistakes are the only things you can truly call your own.

[cattledog]

Plaz,

i'm sure I speak for many when I say we can solve your problem by letting that pesky little state of yours secede.
Therefore you can live OS without ever leaving home !!

Teehee :):):):)

[Plazbot]

Coochimudlo Island?

[Jerricho]

Sheeet, it's not that far to drive from Bribie.......with the bridge, you don't have to wait for the ferry.

[CaptainMidnight]

I've heard that all other staff in Airservices (i.e. other than ATC & fire staff) covered in a separate agreement (corporate?) have filed for protected action with the IRC?

[Robbovic]

CM
Correct. Staff have started receiving ballot papers to vote on the application for protected bargaining.

[Frink]

In the last three months, Bargaining Periods have been sought against Airservices Australia by:


The Community and Public Sector Union (CPSU) (28/11/08)
The Communications, Electrical, Electronic, Energy, Information, Postal, Plumbing and Allied Services Union of Australia (1/12/08)
The Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers, Australia (APESMA) (1/12/08) and
Civil Air Operations Officers' Association of Australia (5/1/09)

Protected Action Ballots have followed in a couple of cases. These four unions cover the entire workforce within Airservices. Don't kid yourself that it's just the controllers that are unhappy. It is a spiteful, vindictive, hateful place to work.

[undervaluedATC]

Frink: It is a spiteful, vindictive, hateful place to work.nothing else to add - I just thought that it was worth quoting :D