Wings for FJ?

[Jackonicko]

When are they awarded, and when did it change?

When is the best time to award them?

At the conclusion of Tucano?
At the conclusion of 208?
At the conclusion of 19?

[pr00ne]

Jackonicko,

When CR?

[Jackonicko]

CR or LCR, Proone?

Isn't that later than has ever been the case?

Not only post OCU, but well into your first squadron?

I don't necessarily demur, but what's your reasoning?

When is it now, though?

[airborne_artist]

Is this (http://www.pprune.org/www.raf.mod.uk/no22traininggroup/rafcms/mediafiles/9C2CA119_1143_EC82_2E38786ECE6BE6FA.ppt) still current? It's on the RAF website. Needs PowerPoint to view. File created in May 2008 by Hannam.

It says that wings for FJ are post-Tucano.

[Jackonicko]

That puzzled me, as the RAF site also says:

"Basic Fast Jet Training (BFJT) involves 120 flight hours at RAF Linton-on-Ouse, North Yorkshire, on Short Tucano T.1s of 72(R) and 207(R) squadrons of 1 Flying Training School (FTS). Successful students pass to 4 FTS at RAF Valley, Anglesey, where they undertake advanced and weapons training on HS Hawk T.1 and T.1A variants with 208(R) and 19(R) squadrons respectively. Those who pass the course are awarded their ‘wings’ (the RAF Flying Badge), and most progress to operational conversion units on front-line types."

I know that it changes from time to time, but hoped to find out when it happens now, and when that last changed.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

I have a friend at Valley now. He was awarded his wings at the end of Tucanos.

[BEagle]

Jacko, you're pretty naive to think that the RAF website is up-to-date!

[Jackonicko]

Yeah, I am!

Though not because I believe the RAF website - I don't.

I was pretty sure it had changed, but hadn't kept up and didn't know which way, and still don't know when it changed.

[Ivor Fynn]

Jacko,

as far as I'm aware, you can have your wings removed up to the point you are declared CR for FJ guys/girls. Certainly had a couple of people had their wings taken back when they were chopped from GR OCU at Lossie a couple of years ago.

Ivor

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Spot on, wings are awarded after Linton but not "sewn on" until you're CR (or a B1 if you're a Creamie).

I think it changed from post-208 to post-Linton around late 2001. Personally, I think after 208's the best place. It's the end of "academic" flying training in the sense that you move from raw flying skills to things with a more tactical slant.

[Jackonicko]

5F6B,

I suppose that's more in step with the rotary and fixed wing guys, too, who get wings after their Griffin/King Air phases?


Ivor,

Crikey, that seems harsh! Anyone who gets to the end of 19 has my total and undivided respect. Surely anyone who gets to GR4 OCU is going to find some productive flying billet, and if not, are we making best use of our resources?

[raytofclimb]

Wings are awarded on completion of BFJT and have been since No 186 BFJT who graduated on 31 Aug 01.

If I remember the blurb on the grad ceremony booklet the Flying Badge had previously been awarded at the equivalent stage.

Correct that they can be taken off you before you have been CR for 6 months. It makes/made no difference to flying pay.

Ray

[MadsDad]

It was changed about 2003. Prior to that FJ got the wings after Hawk but it was changed to after Tucano so FJ got their wings after about the same number of hours as Rotary/ME.

When the change happened they had a mass presentation ceremony at Valley for the 30 or so pilots who hadn't finished their Hawk courses yet.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Jacko, yes; it was sold originally as bringing the FJ guys more into line with their multis and rotary peers. The cynics thought it might be due to the small training return of service owed as soon as you put them on!

Flying pay's now given on completion of an OCU, which generally leaves the FJ guys at a bit of a disadvantage.

[tradewind]

MadsDadIt was changed about 2003. Prior to that FJ got the wings after Hawk but it was changed to after Tucano so FJ got their wings after about the same number of hours as Rotary/ME.

When the change happened they had a mass presentation ceremony at Valley for the 30 or so pilots who hadn't finished their Hawk courses yet.

Happen to be converting my logbooks to an electronic one and just checked the 'Supergrad' date you refer to - 31 Aug 01, the same day as 186 BJFT as raytofclimb stated.

Agree with others that wings should be awarded on transition from 'flying' training to tactical/operating.

[ZH875]

Doesn't it depend on what your name is?:ooh: