RAF Finningley AAITC

[Last of the Many]

Yorkshire Dales/North York Moors Exercises

I went through AAITC in the late 80s and was trying to recall the hills in the Yorkshire dales and North York Moors where we did those hellish exerciseshttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/boohoo.gif.

What I do remember is climbing up Buckton Pike with more pine poles I care to remember and doing the most horrendous stretcher race up hill and down dale on the last day. Also, the memory of Jake McQueen, his corny one liners, and that mut of his brings a smile to my face.

I'd like to go hill walking the routes before I get to old, so if any one can remember them???

[Airborne Aircrew]

I remember them clearly... Thankfully, the passage of time has ensured that their precise location is no longer information that has been retained thus I am unable to relive those precious moments... :ok:

I still recall with horror the leg of one march I was given to navigate. Had I realized what nasty bastiges my instructors would be I might have quit before I started. Their instructions clearly stated from grid xxxxxx travel to grid yyyyyy passing through grid zzzz. Having been reading maps since I was seven this was quite simple - I had to go from a position within a 100m square as defined by the 6 figure grid reference to a similar location but I must pass through a position within a 1Km square as defined by the 4 figure grid reference. Having consulted the map I was quite happy with that since the south westerly corner of the 4 figure grid was at the top of a very steep scarp slope while the rest of the grid square was in a valley. Having reached the destination grid we were sent back to go to the "point" as designated by the 4 figure grid. My argument that said location is defined by a 10 figure grid which defines the 1 metre square or the 14 figure that defines the centimeter... Well... Let's just say that was an argument I didn't win - despite the fact I was absolutely correct...

My team had to go back to the top of the scarp... Pine poles and all... :*

[Seymour Belvoir]

I was on 131 ITC and hated every second of it!

[mad eng]

I remember being told, by a relative based at Finningley, that there was only one man to watch out for on the camp, one nasty piece of work called FS Jake McQueen. Imagine my dismay when the welcoming party on a cold sunday night in Oct announced his name and that we were all his for the next 7/14 weeks.
Dales?? no don't remember that, or Otterburn for that matter.........
You will be asking if anyone wants to meet up for a ditch run or run to Rossington for a swim next.
I passed first time so I would NEVER have to climb/run any of those routes EVER again.
Good Luck, only the DS can really remember where those hills are....

[davejb]

In the late 70's you would have been to Hag Dyke for a midweek executive stress buster quite early in the course, followed later in the year by an all expenses paid team building stroll around Otterburn, culminating (in my groups' case) with an impromptu all ranks do in the Army's Sgts' mess at the bottom of the main drag prior to a cosy RV at the top of it. Compo bangers and beans, anyone?

Dave

[charliegolf]

What was FS McQueen's role? Drill boy, HSO, or what? I did a stint as HSO, '85 ish, and i was a real softy.

CG

[taxydual]

The McQueen. Ended up as SWO at Leeming for a very short time He got bladdered at an XI Sqn Families Day one Sunday and 'yelled' at some children.

Was off the station by lunchtime Monday.

Total tw@

[FE Hoppy]

"For a better word"

[Dave Angel]

I remember Jake McQueen well "Take it from me, aircrew to be".
His smelly little dog was called Scamp and one cadet was always 'IC Scamp' over the weekends.
I remember one of the lads giving Scamp a boot up the arrse after he trod muddy paws over a recently polished floor. The next day Jake had us lined up and pointed at Scamp wanting to know who had been shagging his dog over the weekend as it was walking funny!:uhoh:
IIRC he had a chequered history from his Regiment days in Germany, something to do with joy riding a tank whilst pished.
Like him or hate him he was a character (we were allowed to have them in those days).

[inverted4]

I was on 133 in '86 and remember having to build the path at Malham in this picture. Malham Cove (http://www.malham-village.co.uk/malham-cove.html) Also remember hiking near here during the Dales week, but can't remember the name of any other hills yet, but will find my thinking cap and put it on. I also remember getting a b******* during the stretcher race when I dropped my corner of it and the patient ended up face down on the path, fun days....

[Brakes to Park]

Were you on 80 AAITC as well by any chance? I was too.

[davejb]

Brakes,
yep - I designed the Snoopy T shirt. (If I remember correctly the morse on it read "Sam Morse eat your heart out" while Snoopy's thought bubble read "I can't even think at 18 words a minute).

Which of that stirling bunch of chaps are you then? (I like to think the staff probably mentioned us a lot to later courses as exemplars)

[fergineer]

Hi BtoP hows trix, long time no hear from on here hope all is well. Davejb they would still have been talking about us on 78 long after we were gone!!!!!! We must be getting old!!!!!

[Motleycallsign]

I was on 28 ITC based at Topcliffe in 1970. We went to Hag Dyke and our 'stroll' was over Buckden Pike, Gt Whernside, etc. Any other PPRuNers around from that era?

[charliegolf]

Porky fair was the Flt commander

A model of the modern fighting man!

I was on staff all of '86, and this mcQueen guy is still an unknon to me. The office/ drill Flt Sgt was a portly guy who sniffed a lot.

CG

[richlear]

119 ITC, 1983, worst winter weather for many years.

I do not remember much about the Dales except lots of snow and a night in a pub.

Was Jake McQueen the ITC discip FS?? I remember he had a pace stick he used with flair.

Cpl Burns (cannot remember his first name) was a real trooper - bought us lots of beer....

Flt Cdrs were Humph, Colin Reeves and John (Jon?) Lazari

Otterburn was much more fun. Found a load of TA guys in the woods close by on their last night out. They buried loads of food for us. Phil B & I ate like kings!

Traded food for a METS pilot's baccy...

Happy times

[Brakes to Park]

You are exactly who I thought you were! Remember that t shirt well. PM on its way to you.

Fergi - great to hear from you pal. All's well. Hope it is with you too.

[Dave Angel]

CG,

I went through AAITC in late summer '89, so Jake McQueen had probably replaced the guy you remember.

DA

[Doctor Cruces]

Hag Dyke in February/March was NOT nice. I must have joined before Mortice was the Rigger as I was on 67ITC.

Hated every minute of it.

Doc C

[Tiger_mate]

Jake had gone by early '85, and I cannot recall the name of the chap who replaced him. Cpl Burns first name was "corporal" as any other was a strict no-no. Gordon Mac was HSO and Andy Judge CSRO. Mike Butler was OC AAITC and a gentleman with it, the epitomy of 'firm but fair'. Colin Reeves played the Flt Cdr game well but that could not be said for all of them. Humph was the 'students friend' and IMHO there was very much a place for an individual of that nature on the course. Lazari, last known as being with FRA on Falcons, was unapproachable, and full of his own self importance. There was a Flt Lt Air Eng who subsequently went to Boscombe as a MoD employed civvy and I cannot for the life of me recall his name. Neither can I recall the name of a small dumpy Flt Lt ALM who was a grey man.

PTI's Cpl Coggin or Coglin who is still around, and one (PJI) who got a very loud ":mad:OFF" when pushing a little too hard one day! Overall thoughts: It was an efficient means to an end, and thankfully only done once.

[Top Bunk Tester]

I believe that Jake was replaced by FS 'Grizzly' Adams. Our flight commander in early 90 was H*gh P*nd*r.....what a disgrace to the Eng branch he was....and probably still is!!! To$$er. With the exception of one other AEO flt cdr the rest were top blokes. Grizzly wasn't so much ferocious, more like a teddy bear.

[davejb]

In 1978 there was a Flt lt who was, I'm fairly sure, an Engineer, Pete Shepherd. Mike Butler - the same one who took over 120 Sqn from Peaker? If so then he was a real gent.

[SaddamsLoveChild]

133 recoursed to 134 what a laugh it was at times, nurses home, sex under the vulcan, Mk1 and 2 Ford Capris all over the place and that Flt Cdr Lazarri..........nuff said. Met Colin Reeves later at waddo, nice chap actually and I enjoyed working for him - firm but fair. Think I remember looking for those damn Miniflares, character building eh!

Remember doing my back in carrying some fat WAAF up and down heartbreak hill near the stores site, all very long ago, not too many memories remain.:eek: Cpl Colgin/Coglin was caught as a Sgt in the WRAF block at Aldergrove some years later about 2 weeks before he married said girl and was charged. He was, and still is a top chap.

It was good hard work, ruined by those that had their own agendas, but on the whole a bit of a laugh. Does anyone remember Cooper who used to P*ss in peoples wardrobes and went AWOL claiming he had been abducted by nurses!! He was chopped soon after. The biggest stroker I remember was Hub Cap at the ALM school, cant say too much he is still in.:ugh: anyone know where Mac Macleod is?

[charliegolf]

SLC:

biggest stroker I remember was Hub Cap at the ALM school, cant say too much he is still in

He'd be sure that you would know quite well that it's "Wheel" to the likes of you and me! Still in? Blimey. Wrote a damning report (5000 series?) on me, and told me the exact opposite to my face. Mike B left me in his office with my file for 15 mins the day i left. All in black and white. Cnut.

Davejb: Mike Butler was a Loadie, so not likely at 120.

TigerMate

small dumpy Flt Lt ALM who was a grey man

George Fair

CG

[Tiger_mate]

The Boscombe based 1-11 F Eng was Phil Gagen; CG you are right ref the ALM. Mickey Butler was last known as OC a Reserve Int Sqn, and having left in about 93ish retired as a Magistrate living in the 6FTS local area.

I had hoped that nobody would mention hubcap cause it was probably better that way, he pushed the boundaries on how low mankind can go with some of the insensitive comments he made to individuals. In his defence, he was 'supported' by a few plonkers who brought the trade into disrepute every lunchtime (bar open) and one top bloke (C130 FS ALM) whose working life must have been misery.

Is Neil Flowerdew still alive? If so; pity!

[Airborne Aircrew]

Lazarri was the dark haired poofter that wore a cravat wasn't he?

If so I have to admit to his cutting wit being tops. I remember being upstairs in the block looking out of the windows down into the classrooms out back while cadets from the previous ITC were being told whether they had passed or failed. There was a particular cadet who was something of a waste of space down there waiting. Lazarri walking into the room and asked us what we were doing, we told him and he approached the window looked out and said "Oh dear, was that Cadet X throwing himself to the floor and missing". Vicious but very funny knowing the cadet in question...

[The Gorilla]

He wasn't the only one, at the time of 146 AAITC we had to endure Sigley and Trevaskus to name but two!! Mickey V the eng was a spot on bloke, Porky fair was still there and Jake Mcqueen stayed until about the end of 88 early 89. Anyone know what happened to him after the families day affair at leeming?

Butler went on to become Stn Cdr of Finningley at its demise and he oversaw the closure programme. Magistrate? Lord help us all!!
:uhoh:

[FE Hoppy]

146. Was that the one I started or the one I finished? It appears I've blanked out almost all of those memories.

[The Gorilla]

Hoppy,

You started AND finished it!!

:ok:

[FE Hoppy]

Did I really? Well blow me! Was I any good?

[Airborne Aircrew]

I suppose the answer might be hidden in the fact you had to ask... Like you say, you blanked out the memories... :E

Having said that... Does anyone here know which course I was on? :O

[Tiger_mate]

Does anyone here know which course I was on?

The Pilot, former 33 Navigator, and 33 Crewman (AP) would have been on 126 Cse. Work back from there and you should be able to narrow it down to a few. I think that they ran about 4 intakes a year.

[Airborne Aircrew]

That would put me in the 114 region... Alzheimer's is a terrible thing...:ooh:

[Dengue_Dude]

I was on 50 Course but have forgot myself completely.

But remember Colin Reeves as a young sergeant - nice guy actually,
Mickey Butler as a very good FS ALM at Thorney Island
and Hugh Pender as a very ambitious Sgt on the Herc OCU - hmmm
Jonathan Lazzari - another hmmm

Hag Dyke and later survival courses were 6 months apart. It snowed, sleeted and rained on both. Thanks Yorkshire!

[Charlie Luncher]

Hugh was our course mum and decided that the AEOps should carry a paving slab broke in two and locked in a nav bag to get used to carrying secrets nobber:ugh:.
Travaskis(sp) riding on his pushbike deriding you and the wheezy re-musters as you ran around the place - still have shin splints from those boots:{.
Danny Mellor daft yorkshireman who liked running up hills for fun, said I had a strong accent the cheek:eek:
Yoggie Longmuir bloody nice chap and good guy:D.
Jake and that flea ridden mutt WO Scamp, a day on the hills wet, tired and a tad grumpy snuggle down in your slug and Scamp would try to get in then usually run off about 03:30.
Jake took a dive for the Station Commander in a drink drive incident and fell on his sword/pace stick, which is why he lost SWO. I think he is a top bloke and bawling out some snotty O's brats does not make me think worse of him.
Hoppy too much gin, you should know better than most to use the term blow me in male company:E.
Charlie sends

[davejb]

A different Mike Butler then - I guess that's another example of the 'uniform' idea then, everyone called Butler (Stu Butler, for another example) gets to be boss! Sensible as any other idea apparently used, I guess....<g>

[FE Hoppy]

Charlie I really don't know what you mean!!:O

[Top Bunk Tester]

Mmmmm Danny Mellor........another one from the Pender mould. Anyone around from 157?

[Mighty Norman]

Chair over head and running around parade square
Rugby Club
Jake 'swing those fekkin arms an dig those fekkin heels'
Scamp getting left in Jake's office all weekend and 5hitting all over the shop!
Sigley and Trevaskus - c0ckadoodledoos -
Yogi and Andy Harris - Santa and his mum
Sound activated bombs - "FOUND IT LADS IT'S OVER HERE!!!" (now commissioned!)
Hanford as the earliest member of The Blue Man Group on record after carrying the bin-lid of blue toxic waste all over Otterburn in a gale!!
Just graduated course setting off the ITC fire alarms and running from the guards 00ps
Stn Cdr with a bike instead of a car - with a flag on the butchers basket!!

And then it was gatehouse.............happy days.......

[EdSett100]

Gents, whatever your personal feelings for some of the people you have discussed here, I don't believe it is acceptable pprune practice for them to be named and described in disparaging terms. We are better than that.

Ed Sett

[Leaky]

Ed, whilst I'll admit, some of the comments are a 'bit close to the bone', knowing some of the characters involved, they are in all probability well deserved. Admittedly the majority of people who did a Flt Cdr tour on AAITC/AEELS etc were decent blokes - but some of them had either hidden agendas or little in the way of a personality. Your comments about the views expressed are indicative of the reason why people get fed up of the 'politics' of Service life and the current aspiration to be PC in everything that we do. People have opinions and provided they don't cross the boundary of decency, they should be allowed to express them.

[BEagle]

EdSett100, I agree with you. Even though I've encountered some of the people identified in this thread, one of whom I can well understand being loathed by his subordinates, it is unacceptable practice to 'name names' in such terms on PPRuNe.

It simply isn't done.

[The Gorilla]

Beagle,

You really seem to be on you high horse at the moment, you have named and criticised on this forum before. For those of you who weren't originally NCA and therefore didn't suffer some of the human rights abuses meted out on AAITC I suggest you look elsewhere.

And don't even try to compare that poncey O's course at Cranners to the AAITC, there is nil comparison.

:)

[TANTALLON]

So Leaky, Just exactly how long is it since you, Tiger Mate and SFFP, emerged from under your stones? This site has a clear policy on the use of obscene and defamatory language - it is strictly prohibited. Regardless of your feelings towards these individuals you have absolutely no right to name names. These people are probably long retired after giving the best years of their lives to the RAF but your gutter mouths have now ensured that they will be held up for ridicule on the Web. It clearly hasn't crossed your brain cell how upsetting these comments will be to them, their friends, families and former colleagues. This thread started as a harmless exercise in reminiscing but it is now nothing more than a whingers' charter populated by a bunch of foulmouthed, big girls' blouses. One other thing, I would have paid good money to have watched any of you lot take your grievances face-to-face with Jake in his prime, but then that would have taken ba££s.

Edit: Offending post removed so a repeat of it is not necessary.

[inverted4]

Ah yes, the miniflares! God I'd forgotten all about those. That path at Malham was a nightmare, I think we just had a few shovels didn't we to lay that path? And of course the cry of "assume the position!" every 20 mins or so.
SLC
Don't remember the Capris and must have missed out on the sex under the Vulcan, typical! Heartbreak hill I do remember vividly, having to take those bloody pine poles up and down it god knows how many times. The name Cooper rings a bell but can't for the life of me picture him. I remember Georgie Fair and the fact he never seemed to smile at all.. As for the other instructors I must have blocked them out of my memory as I can't seem to remember any of them. Maybe not a bad thing from the comments being made!
Oh yes and what about Mandy?? I remember one cadet, can't remember his name filling his rucksack with pillows for the 10 mile route march/run and getting found out when they weighed the rucksacks. He ended up with Mandy AND a load of bricks I think in his rucksack. Is the course still similar does anyone know? Or has it been toned down?

[Yeller_Gait]

I think I finished on 129 AAITC, which had Jon Lazzzzari as Flt Cdr. Can't say i really enjoyed the course, or him as Flt Cdr, but well remember him walking up to the door at 7th Heaven and announcing that he was Flt Lt Lazzari, Royal Air Force, and we were his boys. He got us free admission on grad night.Bumped into him a couple of times thereafter when he was on FRA.

Remember George Fair, Steve Gagan and Pete Green as being decent, not so sure about Reeves and Bellis though.

Y_G

[Airborne Aircrew]

Gorilla:

For those of you who weren't originally NCA and therefore didn't suffer some of the human rights abuses meted out on AAITC I suggest you look elsewhere.Oh dear... Here comes the Airborne in this Aircrew.

Do you really think that anything that was done/said to you on AAITC was an "abuse of human rights"? The course was not really that physically demanding and while they messed us about they never really pushed us. Actually, it was much more about us having to push ourselves, motivate our mates and generally demonstrate a modicum of leadership and self discipline. The bolloxings: To be honest, until you've been berated by a Regiment Instructor you haven't been berated anywhere in the RAF. I've seen people physically beaten for outright demonstrations of weakness and lack of intestinal fortutude - and, to be honest, they deserved it and it had the required effect - they quit. We won't even discuss pre-pre Para and Pre-Para because you clearly wouldn't "get it", but I can assure you that, while making AAITC look like a Sunday afternoon in the pub, human rights were not abused. Actually, I'm unsure if your human rights can be abused if you have the option to walk into the Flt. Cdr's office and say "I quit".

AAITC was a good course, well balanced between taking youths that had completed only 6 weeks at Swinderby and "old sweats" with 10 years in and determining if they had what it takes to be NCA. It was a selection course, plain and simple. There was nothing you learned on AAITC that was of any use to you in the remainder of your career, that came later, (except maybe that pine poles are a pain)...

Lastly, I agree... Cranwell was for girls... :E

[Tiger_mate]

>Pops head out from under stone<

A_A whilst I know you are well qualified to have an opinion about your comments, what you do not have an insight into is how the course has changed to accomodate the PC world in which we now live. Assuming that the changes have been made to ensure that the Euro Court of Human Rights does not feature in future redress cases; therego by default a 'risk' must have existed in the past. Lets face it, you simply cannot direct a 'cadet' to run around a parade square with a chair above his head nowadays.

That the para course was mental and physical abuse does not make AAITC any less challenging, especially to educated people who would question the motives of orders given, rather then asking is this high enough when told to jump. (No pun intended)

As for naming, names. I would normally agree when discussing current issues and events, however as an exception, this thread is about history and individuals perceptions regarding personalities. Individuals are entitled to those perceptions as each was earned from an initial clean slate. If the truth hurts, then life is a b*tch, but then we knew that already. There is a fair ammount of respect being awarded here to balance the plonkers of this world, and I dare say that nobody will complain about having been perceived as striking the balance just right.

[1771 DELETE]

Anybody out there old enough to have been on 58 course ?

I guess if you had a good flight commander (Paddy Quade) and a decent bunch of lads and lassies on the course that it was not too unenjoyable.

We did have a great MENG, whose name i have forgotten, always had a tiny roll up in his mouth, also a very tasty PTI.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Tantrum et al,

What's most bizarre about your stance is that if I had mentioned my being on AAITC 151 during the first few months of 89, and at that time there was a Flt Cdr who was an Air Engineer, of Scottish descent who was not only small of stature but also universally despised, and is the only person in my 34 years of service who I have actually never wished well of, that would be deemed acceptable.

The fact that, despite naming him he would be instantly recognisable from the description and timeframe to not only himself but any family or friends reading this would also be deemed acceptable by the usual norms, how many times has dear old Beag's made ill will mentions with regards to a previous BZN Sqn Cdr leaving anyone in the know in no doubt as to the guys identity?

I happily standby the sentiments in my previous now deleted post and whilst I would not rule it out I doubt very much you will find too many who will contradict me, and if I have offended I guess that must be the baldric in me :ok:

[Airborne Aircrew]

...what you do not have an insight into is how the course has changed to accomodate the PC world in which we now live. .... Lets face it, you simply cannot direct a 'cadet' to run around a parade square with a chair above his head nowadays.TM, while I see what you are trying to say I cannot agree that just because some lilly-livered pansies in an ivory tower say that running around a parade ground with a chair over your head is contrary to that individual's human rights doesn't make it so. Especially when the individual holds control over their fate insofar as they can, at any time, quit. What I find unpalatable is individuals that complain about such things as if they are being hard done by. It's a bit of physical exertion or verbal abuse neither of which will kill them and, if they believe it will, then quit. I'm quite sure that those that may find themselves in deep doody alongside such people in the future would be glad to know that they felt that a good yelling at was "all a bit too much for them".

That the para course was mental and physical abuse does not make AAITC any less challenging, especially to educated people who would question the motives of orders given, rather then asking is this high enough when told to jump. (No pun intended)Surely, the "educated people" should have gone into AAITC with their eyes open. They should understand that they are being selected for and being trained to go to war and that, should they ever have to go, it will be far worse than anything some "tinpot dictator" at AAITC could dish out. Would they not have been better prepared and have researched the conditions they would be expected to endure? While not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it I believe the "educated people" argument is actually self defeating if for no other reason that, no matter which way you look at it, they should "know better".

As to naming people... I hear no complaints about/from all the people that were complimented for being "good lads", "top men", etc. Let's face it, if you spent a portion of your career being an arse then it should come as no surprise when those that you were an arse to point it out. Or is someone trying to say that they should be protected from the truth about them? If so I suspect they would feel quite at home in the ivory tower that says that running around with a chair is a breach of their human rights... :rolleyes:

Oh Bugger... I just agreed with Seldom... I must go thrash myself within an inch of my life... :eek:

[TANTALLON]

SFFP

I am not surprised to see you make such a pathetic attempt to justify your juvenile comments. Have you ever considered counselling to help you deal with the traumas you experienced at the hands of this "Air Engineer, of Scottish descent". Get over it man!!

Incidentally, I doubt if you possess any of Baldrick's qualities - he at least had some amusement value. On the other hand, the character was a former dung shoveller so maybe you have finally found your vocation.

Baldrick is also spelt with a "k" but presumably you would need to borrow another brain cell to work that one out.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Tantrum,

Show me the error of my ways rather than simply stamping your feet old chap :ok:

[Airborne Aircrew]

Hmmm...

Location: Dunbar...
Posts: 10
Name Tantallon, (a castle in East Lothian)
Manner: Indignant
Demeanor: Insulting.

Methinks Tantallon = an "Air Engineer, of Scottish descent"

:D

[FE Hoppy]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

AAITC was what it was. If you passed well done. If you didn't tough luck. If you didn't like it at the time we all had the option to walk.

I suffered what would be termed as "abuse" at Swinderby but not on the ITC. I could have caused a stink but chose to let it go as Swinderby was just a hoop to jump through as was ITC.

[TANTALLON]

Yeah, dream on AA. Sherlock Holmes you ain't. Congratulations on your map reading ability though, clearly AAITC wasn't entirely wasted on you.

SFFP. There aren't enough days in this new millenium to show you the error of your ways. I just hope that it was your "Air Engineer, of Scottish descent" who gave you your monicker, whatever his failings, clairvoyance wasn't one of them.

[The Gorilla]

Airborne, ease up.

There was a smile after my post and I was taking the mickey out of dear old beagle.

I was the oldest person on my ITC (30+) and I went into it eyes wide open and enjoyed being converted from Substantive Sgt of almost two years into Plastique. However there were clearly some who enjoyed the darker side of life. It is easy to see how absolute power corrupts absolutely and there were those who abused their positions daily. Let us not forget that for some the AAITC Flt Cdr positions were not usually awarded on merit and neither were the FS positions.

It's one thing being empowered to do a job properly it's another to be OTT and physically abusive to those who are weaker in an effort to make them quit. Even one of the Padres at the time was in on the act, he really got off on that one. Verbal and mental abuse is essential within that environment and was often hilarious to receive and observe.

But it was a different RAF then and I am sure the guys who did Topcliffe before us found it much harder than we. It did sort the men from the boys and I am proud to say I did it and completed it first time around.

:ok:

[Airborne Aircrew]

Gorilla:

My error... I mistook the smiley as your signature line and therefore did not associate it with the content of the post.

Tantallon:

Unfortunately, there isn't a sign for "might equal" or I would have used it... Also, had you read _and_ understood what I wrote you would be aware that AAITC did nothing to improve my map reading... :rolleyes:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Gorilla,

Similar tale here, 30+ and sub Sgt at start of ITC, went round once and loved every moment of it :ok:

Tantrum,

I have been around and about for 34 years now, met a whole swathe of different folk in that time and only ever despised one. Now who was it who recently posted that once you get personal in an argument you've lost :p

[Indicating Full]

SFFP

Where you the one who wore his "groundcrew" Sgt stripes for a few days whilst temporarily chopped before being re-instated. Apologies if I'm mistaken and caused unneccesary offence.

All this reminiscing about the ITC will give me nightmares. Probably about the scottish engineer, the AEO with the Greek sounding name, the FS with the dog, the SYKOpathic PTI and the padre you should not confide in.:oh:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

IF,

Not me, fortunate enough to not pee anyone off so sailed through, although we did have an ex Sgt from 150 back coursed to us so maybe he's the chap you are thinking of :ok:

[The Gorilla]

Indicating

Was that round 88/89 time?

Tg

[Indicating Full]

I was on 149/150 and I know the sgt that was recoursed. I'm sure we know each other but I'll quit with the probing to protect your anonymity - the DS might be reading this.

[The Gorilla]

will pm you I know the case well

[Yozzer]

It seems that there was a bad phase between 85-90 ish, cause my experience there at about the same time as Guld War I was fine. OC was a PTI Sqn Ldr J M********K replaced by another PTI Bob A***t both of whome were fair. FS A***s left the service and the Regt Cpl was Jim ?? replaced by Tooby (I think I got that name right) Danny M* was as barking as ever running up hill and down dale at his age, John M**ne, and Jim D**n along with FEng Andy H****s who aside from being a descent chap could start the Nim Sim in record quick time. There was another H****s (ALM) (Phil) who could be a bit strange (read as inflexible) at times but wasnt too bad. CSRO were Mudrock & Dave Pells; DP passed away recently sadly, and along with Jeff Lon****r were good guys. There was a female loadie DS, but I cannot remember her name. (Lynn??)

In summary, they all did what they were there for, and I would buy any one of them a beer should we meet in a bar. Perhaps this was an unusually good phase. NB If Danny did not take to you, then you had dipped it bigstyle, and I am quite certain he had the strength of character to influence the others.

[Charlie Luncher]

IF/Big monkey
Are we not talking about a dude who once admitted to pleasuring himself whilst tearing down the M4 and wanted your sister/mothers soiled panties?:yuk:
Always wondered if he tried it out down route - don't reach for power levers in the dark:sad:.
Having seen lads pour blood and puss out of their excellent DMS boots so they could carry on rather than VS was just the culture at the time I guess :(. Brufen was your friend, the Med assists also were very sympathetic in a warming way on a cold night, never been fitter in my life. Cranwell was for homos and gas lighting BBQ fags:D.
Charlie sends

[The Gorilla]

Charlie
Nice one! :ok:

[Airborne Aircrew]

and wanted your sister/mothers soiled panties?

He can't have them... I'm not letting them go... They taste so niiiiice... :}

Jeez, if that's the worst "mental abuse" that had to be dealt with I'm surprised anyone ever failed... Or was this at Cranwell? :E

[The Gorilla]

The guy in question was a substantive Sgt prior to having to go Plastique, they took an immediate dislike to him and he failed the ITC. Next day he went back to the top floor wearing his substantive Sgt Stripes, the man had b*lls! There was a bit of a kerfuffle as I remember, conversation went along the lines of I have failed a course to become a Sgt well I is one innit and I am wearing these whilst waiting to see the AOC.

Funnily enough he made it to Sgt Aircrew very quickly but it put some of the already mentioned names right out of kilter!

A few months later a friend of mine, an ex Cpl fairy VS'd and as he had already been boarded and got his blue letter prior to the ITC and AEELS, PMA basically posted him back into a Sgts slot and sent him for GST2. The n**bers in the ITC block tried to make a strong case that he shouldn't have to do GST2 as he had done the ITC.

Er nope don't think so said PMA not a recognised Sgt's course! Diplomats as ever!! :} Made me smile for many a year that story!
:)

[WhoAreYa]

"Mmmmm Danny Mellor........another one from the Pender mould. Anyone around from 157?"

What a nightmare that man was, favourite quote "you ain't going home this weekend" knob, lol.
Seems I had such a bad time of it I can't even remember the course number, according to my logbook it started on the 12th of Jan 1991.

What I do remember was :
Doing leopard crawls in the snow.
Going for a run every day wearing boots.
The dreaded canal crossing/run.
Our tents blowing away on the first night of Otterburn week and having to stay in some abandoned youth hostel (massive result)
Getting completely lost on my final lead and getting pointed in the right direction by one of the staff (top bloke, thanks)

The rest is just to painful to remember, lol.

[Indicating Full]

Charlie,

Yes we are talking about the the same person but I'd forgotten the sock story. Doing it is one thing - but why tell everyone?

[bigley]

Whoareya,

You and I were on the same ITC, and I can't remember the number either! I had a flasn back last week when I was party to the junior IOT cadets having to do leopard crawls in the snow!!! Happy days,

[Top Bunk Tester]

I don't know if anyone ever equalled our (157) record of no weekends off at all during the whole of AAITC, one particular reason I remember (Another HP classic) was him doing a block inspection and finding a brick wrapped in bodge tape, used for '58 Webbing weights, and decided it was an IED, bang went another weekend as we had to parade at various hours of the early morning and report to the guardroom on each occasion. On the next course DM was the flt cdr and on the Sunday before the course started beasted them all repeatedly up and down heartattack hill. All going well untill someone broke an ankle, all hell broke loose after that.

[BEagle]

Whilst doing a Jetstream refresher course at Scargill International many years ago, I visited the Plastic Factory to chat with a chum who'd been on a previous aircraft type with me and was then on the staff.

Who, it has to be said, was indeed a wiry little porridge-w*g. But not the one so disliked by Seldomfitforpurpose! He I encountered about 20 years later - you have my sympathies.

What surprised me most were the bed packs - it was like a 1950s National Service billet. Complete with shiny lino floor which I wasn't keen to walk on as some poor sod would only have to polish it again. We hadn't even suffered such bull as Flt Cdts at the RAFC in pre-Green Shield days.

It didn't look like a fun place......:uhoh:

[WhoAreYa]

Bigley:

Happy days indeed mate, well sort of, lol. Glad I only did it once!

I'm thinking course 163 ? Might be wrong.

Does the saying "Standards on the ground, standards in the air" mean anything ?

[Tiger_mate]

Polishing the copper pipes in the bog at 2am was a joy to behold.

Mickey B's saying was: "Standards - Aircrew Die"
If I heard that once, I must have heard it a thousand times. Positively brain washed by it I be. McN*M**a is (was) getting away with the banter well.

[Dengue_Dude]

I was quite interested to see the diatribe about naming names etc earlier on in this thread. A fair number of 'high horses' in evidence I thought.

So, let me get this straight. It's OK to mention politicians, actors, sportsmen, criminals, heroes, historical figures etc etc.

But at what level ISN'T it OK to name names, at what point do the above suddenly qualify for 'privacy'? Or even 'closing of ranks'. . .

Then we come to the subject of this thread, AAITC (I did mine half at Topcliffe and half at Finningley). I had Paddy Quaid who was outstanding and kept us out of the ****, mainly because he led by a nose! We RESPECTED him, he was a man's man - even when we had to do the sh1tty stuff. If you needed a bollicking, you got , then it was over.

BUT, during my time as a student and two tours as an instructor (on Doms, at different times) I saw the Flt Commanders - who have been mentioned, revelling in their power and trying to outdo each other in their unreasonableness.

It might be 'unethical' in the complainants' ethos to name names, but those guys thoroughly deserve it. Call it 'karma payback' if you like. And if some of those people read this about peoples' opinions of them - then 'GOOD'.

AAITC was never meant to be a picnic, and indeed it wasn't. Paddy Quaid managed it without the same levels of inhumanity and meglomania I saw later and on other courses. Sadly the good guys were often eclipsed by the @rseholes, posers and self-styled demigods mentioned.

So please educate me, who can we mention, who can't we mention and then give me a good reason to justify that stance?

If you can't, then STFU about it.

"As ye sow, so shall ye reap" just about covers it.

[Top Bunk Tester]

BEagle

Not that tit H*** P**d*r?

If 'twas he, I can well believe it. Utter dork.

13th September 2006, 08:21

Could this be a small case of hypocrisy, given your earlier stance of naming names? :E

[Airborne Aircrew]

"As ye sow, so shall ye reap" just about covers it.

Absolutely... :D:D:D

As I said, if you spent time being an arse to people then you shouldn't be surprised when those people call you an arse. I'll expand that to add that if you can't take being called an arse 20 years later then you probably should have thought of that earlier.

"Publish and be damned" is what I say... Well, actually... it was someone else... But I agree with the sentiment. :}

[charliegolf]

BEagle wrote:

It didn't look like a fun place......

Some of it was- the black humour and the getting one over on 'them' kept you going. It was a game, or as another poster wrote, a hoop, on the way to what we wanted. The DS had the rulebook, the whistle and the red and yellow cards. Our PTI beasted us yes, but also kept us informed as to how we were doing. FS Hoath really was playing a role- he was a tidy bloke.

Mike Evans was our Flt Cdr, ex Herk nav and STC number 8. When he arrived at 33 a couple of years later, to be a nav/crewman he was fair game. We gave him loads and he took it on the chin. Another tidy bloke.

Means to an end and character building.

CG

[The Gorilla]

Dengue

Your the man! I forgot the bit where I went back as an instructor three years later (same time as you!) and they were still at it then!

Memories going, it's my age!

regards
TG

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Beags does double standards and then gets caught out..................imagine my surprise :p

[Dengue_Dude]

What do they say?

'The apple never falls far from the tree'.

I suspect he's intimate with some of those mentioned therefore has to open a different rule book to 'protect' them.

Had they been reasonable of course, he wouldn't have to would he?

There must be a QR to cover that somewhere . . .

[BEagle]

Clearly you've never met that utter dork Hyrt Pzodrr of the Transylvanian Air Force then?

Asterisks and letters are not quite the same!

:p

PS - Apologies to anyone actually named Hyrt Pzodrr!

[Airborne Aircrew]

Asterisks and letters are not quite the same!

Come now Beags... There have been several names asterisked out in this thread and it hardly takes a Crewman to work out what the name is... :cool:

[Dengue_Dude]

If you're talking about Hugh Pender, why fart about with asterisks - just say so. (see my post above 'Naming names')

Fortunately I was one of HIS instructors and all he was around me was quite ambitious which was no reason to 'down him'.

What he did afterwards I only know by heresay (not heresy!).

It sounds as if he was impressively unimpressive, sadly often the case with our branch leaders with one or two notable exceptions. These were 'exceptional' and an absolute pleasure to work for - Paul Woodman for one and Vic Farci for another to name but two.

Am I allowed to name names if I'm saying good stuff, or am I to protect people who were a credit to their trade as well as the tossers?

[KonfusedofKinloss]

charliegolf (http://www.pprune.org/members/87779-charliegolf) which course?

Mike was our Flight Commander back in the double digit days of 91. Best memory of him was on a graduation night - the late part!!, he didn't fancy what was intended for him and when trying to get him out of the No 2 mess he decided that he was taking the bannister with him. Also believe he was something to do with a certain Puma round about the Falklands time.
Total reversal to one of the other Flight Commanders there at the time - loved stabbing everyone in the back - prompted the new call during Mad Trap for the "Power - Mad" call

Regarding Hags Dyke etc IIRC we got dropped off at Bainbridge dis Great Whernside - Buckden Pike and on the Hags Dyke and Kettlewell

[lastmanstanding]

Was lucky to see FYY as one of the last ITC's there. Still did run/swims and even run/swim/runs if we were feeble in the pool. No ditch runs or cardiac hill(H&S started getting their teeth into the system by then).
On top of a windy hill during Border Patrol a Puma came a flying by. Passed us at a great rate of knots. It then did a quick about turn and came by with the door open, LM at the door-black visor down to protect the innocent and gesticulating appropriately to the DS. A mixture of a Nazi Sieg Heil and a handy shandy. :D Suffice to say the exercise was paused due to the course "corpsing". Never did find out who the LM was but it brightened up the week!!

[charliegolf]

Konfused,

You're spot on and I'm Konfused: I finished 93, having hurt my knee on the dales bit of 91. Evans made more of an impression in 4 weeks than whoever was the boy on 93. I think his first name was Barry. Pennington?

Derek ? Devitt was the HSO, and McClaren played the hardie but was an ok guy I thought.

CG

[The Real Slim Shady]

Y'all go on about X,Y and Z and the AAITC experience.

It made you what you are today: OK, it may have been namby pamby girly tough, but you started out as a bunch of wet behind the ears civvies, or "I'm a Cpl , JT with attitude" and you came out of it balanced, like all aircrew.

You were put through it to join the elite group, band of brothers, who are aircrew.

Manuel Elcock, Air Eng Stude at FY: he was sat beside me in Dom climbing through FL280 when the right fire warning went off. Manuel, slightly stunned, as I through the shutdown, slapped my hand as I reached for the engine bleed, and very quietly said "My job" as he switched it off. Classic.

Y'all came out of it well :-)

[Airborne Aircrew]

Slim:

It made you what you are today: OK, it may have been namby pamby girly tough, but you started out as a bunch of wet behind the ears civvies, or "I'm a Cpl , JT with attitude" and you came out of it balanced, like all aircrew.Close, but no cigar. To put the record straight... As an SAC Super-Duper Airborne Trooper without even the tiniest superiority complex :E I went through a "namby pamby girly tough" course and came out of it still somewhat unbalanced... :ok:

[TheWizard]

Whoareya,

You and I were on the same ITC, and I can't remember the number either! I had a flasn back last week when I was party to the junior IOT cadets having to do leopard crawls in the snow!!! Happy days,

Yeah, but you usually got someone else to do it for you AISTR!!;):}

[charliegolf]

On the ITC, grassing each other up is taught in the last week. By then, you know if you've passed or not, so aren't paying attention in class.:)

More realistically, the 33 Sqn cabs were usually minging- you'd have to be close to read the reg through the soot.

CG

[Airborne Aircrew]

More realistically, the 33 Sqn cabs were usually minging- you'd have to be close to read the reg through the soot.

Sometimes there's madness in the method... :E

[lastmanstanding]

you just have written down the reg, rung Odiham and got them to check the Auth sheets for you?

Think the DS saw the funny side too. It was Black Thursday too. Their minds were made up. After all we were building a radar with a dustbin lid, some rope and pine poles.:ugh:

Happy days:confused:

[Airborne Aircrew]

After all we were building a radar with a dustbin lid, some rope and pine poles

So defence cuts were having an effect back then too huh? :sad:

[haltonapp]

I was on 30 course, Jim Mutsaars was our Flt Cdr, I do remember Hag Dyke but cannot remember being "beasted". Boring lectures on service writing etc spring to mind and the PE every morning, but I did need it! It only lasted for six weeks and we did have some pretty girls on LM training, some very witty AEops and six FE's who were good friends. I must have been lucky, and I still have a job as an FE!!

[KonfusedofKinloss]

charliegolf (http://www.pprune.org/members/87779-charliegolf)

You prob won't believe it, but I think we shared the room at Swinderby for the first 6 weeks.

[BEagle]

I do remember Hag Dyke

She sounds a right old boiler - even below 'Moulinex' shag-standard minima?

Assuming such a thing is actually possible...:eek:

[Dengue_Dude]

KonfusedofKinloss

Is there something you need to tell us . . . ?

I mean, perhaps this is why you are konfused ? ;)

[KonfusedofKinloss]

Unfortunately of an age that the huts at Swinderby were the old ones by the Newcomers Club - condemned when we went into them!!, and all two man rooms.

[XEng]

I always found that whatever pain and discomfort I encountered on the ITC was more than compensated for by the very accommodating ladies of Doncaster. For a couple of beers and a bag of chip they would rub me better with unparalleled enthusiasm and relish.

[pipistrelle]

Davejb & CG I reckon I did my stint @ FY around the time you were there I was on the early 80's course. I agree Mick Evans was a top bloke and FS John Hoath was certainly playing the role of DI, a couple of guys on my course saw a real human side to him when things went wrong at home. Sadly there were also a vast minority of sad gits one flt eng arch** being one who despised all aeops and didn@t miss an opportunity to state it.
Memories of Otterburn and Hag Dike have faded but were important in the building the characters of the guys who finally graduated. Memories of the social life around FY (remember the Buzzard and Bastar*) will stay with me so will some of the friends I met there.
For what it's worth our course motto (penned by a loadie) was "Cheat If Need Be", sometimes we got away with it.

[davejb]

FS Hoath,
silver tongued charmer....

Actually, I'm pretty sure he was a Sgt when my course arrived, and was promoted to FS before we got onto the main course 2 months later.

Didn't really have a great deal to do with the chap, other than a spot of drill now and then. (Pete?) Shepherd as Flt Cdr was a nice chap, there was an ex ranker Sqn Ldr Education officer ... (whose name now escapes me, Tom?) ... who was a good guy, very few people to actively dislike although there weren't that many I felt like sending Christmas cards to in subsequent years <g>

There were a small number of large egos, however, to ignore as best you could...it's probably the same in all training setups, and no different to life when you get to the sqn anyhow.

[charliegolf]

Konfused,

Just saw your post of 19th! For the record, one foot was on the floor at all times (was that ever a 'rule' or urban myth)!

I was at Swinderby, on 8 Flt from 29 Aug79 for 6 weeks, then to Finn. The sarge there, a bloke called Robertson (another tidy bloke) always referred to me as "You there, Aerocrat". Ring any bells? Oh, just remembered, 58 blokes, 49 (ish) Jocks.

CG

[biddedout]

I wouldn't for one moment wish to compare the time on the hills with many of the Army marine courses, but spending several days cold, miserable and knackered certainly brings out the best or worst in people and is a very good leson in human nature and natural leadership. There was an ex Yorkshire Miner Eng Student on our course who really stood out from the crowd as a leader. Always willing to put himself before others and very enertaining without an ego. Probably the only person to do a 15 minute talk on changing tappets, bringing his own car engine into the classroom to use as a prop, oil and all. Even Lazz and Reves lost their cool and cracked up during that particular talk.

Conversly, it was noticeable that one or two other individuals became quiet and self contained on the hills putting very little into the team effort. Miraculously, they always seemed to come out of their shell in a big way when the DS were around watching and when it was their turn to lead. Two I can think of went to cranners and came back as AEO's.

The best part of the AAITC wa the fact that unlike Cranners, no time was wasted dressing up and running around with guns pretending to be soldiers.

The other important lesson from the whole AAITC experience is if you are on a hill in pitch dark with an objective to achieve, never give the map to a Navigator.

[SIT head]

To everyone who was on 195, I hope this finds you well and I'd like to wish you all the very best. What a top group of people you turned out to be and I'd be honoured to buy each and every one of you a very big drink.

Stating the obvious, but the AAITC was different to OT - it was the first part of AIRCREW training and instilled something special. Those that graduated out of the AAIC have something that, in my opinion, makes them a cut above... and 195 were a pleasure to work with.

Oh - CG, really enjoyed working with you and Ian Leigh on Moortreks

[KonfusedofKinloss]

CG,
yep Robbie was a top bloke, very much in the John Hoath mold. IIRC our Cpl was a guy called Dave Garstang - had done a few bits & pieces in Ireland, but wouldn't talk much about it.

First morning of 91 was spent in the dark in the GST building getting our introductions from Mick in torchlight, as a Taceval had been called at Oh God o'clock. Us DE guys totally lost and the old sweats getting hauled off to do some guarding somewhere.

Best memory of John Hoath was phoning up some day and and all you got was the end of ........TH. Saw him do it one time, he started answering it as his hand touched the handpiece with the "Flight Sergeant Hoa" bit done before he'd got the mouthpiece anywhere near his mouth.

He also loved to get our own Frank Spencer doubling around the square with a chair above his head, after falling asleep in yet another Admin lecture.....

Happy days

[AQAfive]

Oh those words, Hag Dyke, in fact I did Topcliffe in 72 and found the ITC a breeze, however, I had arrived from Henlow OITC (Failed) where I had been beasted by experts, well a certain rock who’s name I have long forgotten. I was therefore very fit and had a handle on what was expected, which made things easier.

I will say that my flight commander was an immaculately dressed utter gentleman whose wise advice saw me through the course. Rumour had it he could sing from 2200 to 0400 without repeating himself and had some of the best ever songs from the Shackleton era. Which he produced in a cottage on said Hag Dyke on the last night.

Their approach to ITC was to test you and stretch you and assess your breaking point without actually breaking you and they did that very well. From the many comments made it seems their successors failed to emulate them, which is strange as some of those guys mentioned in previous posts, were going through Topcliffe as students at the same time. I have a lot of dirt on one in particular, he was an ex radio operator on marine craft, but then I doubt he would have told you that.

I have a fondness for the moors as both my wife (to be – and still is) were on the same ITC and we struggled across those ‘turks heads’ together.

Or have I blotted out the horror of it all.

[50+Ray]

During my couple of years driving the Dom I had my only experience of working with AEOps & AEs. I have to say I was impressed by the diligence and enthusiasm of the product coming through. Indeed the right hand seat student was almost invariably better prepared than the more common baby Nav.
I do remember being somewhat taken aback by the rather abrupt
'instructional technique' being employed by some of the staff, particularly Eng. As a QFI for more than 20 years I believe a student finds it easier to actually learn if treated with some politeness and respect.
Good Luck to all who completed it.

[Leaky]

Charliegolf - I too was on 8 Flt starting on 29 Aug 79 (my 17th birthday!) with the DS Sgt Robbie Robertson and I think the Cpl was Dave Garstang. Top blokes who were utterly professional in everything that they did. I started off as a techie and then did the AAITC in the early 80s but I seem to recall that there were 3? people bound for Finningley - one a jolly ginger haired Scot, first name Jim, who I subsequently bumped into when I arrived at Ice Station Kilo.

Tantallon:
Slightly taken aback by your comments. If you had bothered to read my post, you would see that I hadn't actually used any 'gutter' language and I was simply stating that provided it doesn't cross certain boundaries people should be allowed to express themselves - as I said, it's views like yours that is just the sort of PC nonsense that people get fed up of - if people can't take the criticism, they shouldn't dish it out.

[BEagle]

50+Ray, I went along on some of those Dom trips whilst holding between a ME refresher course and the '10 OCU. I would agree with you - as no doubt would the pilot who was flying us one day. After making sure he knew where we were whilst the baby navs confused themselves in the back, he suddenly exclaimed "F*** it!" and extracted a piece of paper from his pocket. "Err, Captain to Signaller, you have just obeserved (long list of Sovietski boats) at this position with a MLA of 270 at 20 knots.....which means that in about 10 minutes half the Russian navy will bump into Flamborough Head. Send message to (boat peoples' HQ)".

"Signaller to Captain, Roger"

Much shuffling of bits of NUCO, NAMAT or something, then some demented woodpecker noises for a few seconds....

"Signaller to Captain, the HF has just packed up"

"Ah well, you did your best, so I'll give you a tick for the trip. I suppose if the navigators can find out where we are sometime soon, we can always phone your report in!"

I always said that a weekend in a wet tent plus a couple of hours in a Chipmunk would be one of the most cost effective pilot aptitude methods the RAF could have. If people can put up with turning their ankles on that b*****d turks head terrain, plus a couple of nights watching rain pour down the inside of a leaky tent, feasting on oatmeal block and compo bully beef hash, they should be able to cope with most things military!

[Wessex Boy]

Did I really? Well blow me! Was I any good?


oh yes, big boy:}

If you are who I think you are then we went through Swinders on 17 flight (being both ex cadet FS's we ended up teaching the rest of the flight Drill & SLR training while the rock-apes stacked Zs in the mess)

Of course 146 AAITC was just after Top Gun came out so no one in Camelots ever lost that loving feeling, did they Hoppy?:O:E

Some Photos of 146's Wall building in the Dales:
146 AAITC pictures by atkinsjs - Photobucket (http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p219/atkinsjs/146%20AAITC/)

As you always went down for a nap after Dinner (growing boy), one night everyone on the room put a blanket on you, you were a bit reesty & sweaty when you woke up!

I remember on that first Sunday Night, Jake mcqueen giving us a briefing "For want of a better word" and "Chester Drawers" spring to mind. Something he did say was that everyone would break at some point, after that it would be easy andyou would pass.

I broke up at Otterburn, I was carrying a couple of Ice cream board 'DZ' markers and lagging behind. Trevaskus said something annoying (makes a change...), so I ran up to him, lifted the boards above my head... and then luckily came to my senses. turned and ran up the particular hill screaming...he did look a little fearful for a second though!

[snapper41]

Having been chopped from 131 ITC on med grounds, I ended up holding as an aircrew cadet at Finningley for the best part of 3 years - still a record, as far as I know! I worked in the Exped Store in the old SSA, and went on every hills exercise (Dales, Otterburn & Moortrek) from late 1985 to summer 1988 (about 15 ITCs, I think), laying out those bloody pine poles, barrels, ropes etc etc for you lot to carry back down again! Despite it being a waste of 3 years, I have nothing but fond memories of Finningley, Doncaster, Gatehouse, and plenty of the blokes going through the course. Also, I worked for some real gents - CG who posts on here being one them, and the aforementioned Mike Butler - who inspired me to take a different career path in the Service. Happy days - even if I was only paid £15 a day!

[Truckkie]

How many ex-ITC cadets have gone through IOT?

Just been wondering how many graduates of the ITC have gone on to careers as Officers in the RAF and other services.

Bet it is quite a high percentage - I know of at least 10 from my era!

Just goes to prove that the ITC is the harder course:ok:

[charliegolf]

Leaky

there were 3? people bound for Finningley - one a jolly ginger haired Scot, first name Jim,

That was Jim Rodger (same spelling as on the aircrew knife). Good bloke, struggled with his weight, hopefully won?

CG

[Charlie Luncher]

WB
Is it just me or does Hoppy not appear too industrious in the photos. He carried this trait throughout his time at ISK as I remember :eek::bored:.
Truckkie a few have done the dirty deed over the years a couple of us had to move to the colonies though:cool: does that still count?:O
Charlie sends

[Wessex Boy]

He did always seem to turn up at my mixer when I was just starting the mix, which menat he had to hang around for a while.....

(How I blagged myself onto running a mixer for 2 days I will never know!)

[wishywashy]

;) 91 AAITC - Taceval first night! Andy M (LM) and I had just returned from York in his Morris 1100 (compulsory red bucket seats) having had a few and were sewing on our Eagles when the sirens went off. 5 Hours later under a Vulcan with SLR in hand and a hangover to kill a normal person - what am I doing??
John Hoath - top bloke. I remember one of the chaps knocking on his door and being summoned in to find him reading a paper. Stude asks if he could see the Flight. 'No' was the reply, then he puts the paper down and says 'but you can now'! Ho Ho Ho.
Admin lessons always put me to sleep hence running with a chair above my head around the parade square (normally with RK) became the norm.
Hope all you chaps ex 9 Flt and 91 AAITC find yourselves well.
Frank

[charliegolf]

Andy M.

Could light a fire by rubbing 2 blocks of ice together! Friggin' pyromaniac.

Top Bloke.

CG

[KonfusedofKinloss]

Mentioning Andy M doesn't half get the grey cells going trying to remember all the rest of the gang.

Sadly I know we've lost Denis Wynne & Iain McMillan, but hopefully as wishywashy says hope you're all doing fine & dandy.

ww hope you've settled into them big lazy circles in the sky. Look after yourself matey

[processor overloads]

CG, Leaky and Konfused - I too was at Swinderby on 29 Aug 79 (Yes another jock) and Jimmy Rodgers was indeed on the same intake and flight. As I was under 17 at the time Jimmy R was, I think, tasked to keep an eye out for me so I would not get into trouble. It,s not true that he bought me beers in the Naafi or in Lincoln. Still speak to him often. 30 years service this year. Starting to get the hang of things now :O I think?

Like leaky, I too went the way of the techie until changing to aircrew in the early 90s. :ok: Leaky and I have cross paths over the years too, both as techies and aircrew.

Happy Days

[J.A.F.O.]

At the time I hated every moment of AAITC but with the benefit of 20 odd years worth of hindsight I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

Fond memories of one of the funniest double acts I've ever seen - Jake McQueen and Mal Aston - they must have had a team of scriptwriters for the block inspections.

I am proud to have been there and to have met all the people I met. As The Real Slim Shady said "It made you what you are today" and I can't think of another block of seven weeks out of my life that's had such an impact.

I really don't know what you mean!! Now, Hoppy, we all know that you do.

Just graduated course setting off the ITC fire alarms and running from the guards Norman, we hadn't graduated, we were just about to do the spec phase flying and it was made abundantly clear to us by all concerned that our graduation was by no means a certainty at that point.

snapper41 - I remember visiting the SSA to sign out stuff from you on several occasions, hope you're keeping well.

My time at Finningley was one of the happiest times of my life, it's sad to see gatehouse and the main school have disappeared.

I'd like to see what todays AAITC is like.

[jkjllkj]

Now that is a lot of brass air fittings there is just about every type of air fitting that you could want. Wholesale prices too. I guess these could be used as small water pipe fitting also. I
used some of the parts to make my babington wvo burner.

[Leaky]

jkjllkj - WTF over!:rolleyes:

Processor Overload - PM me with your ID - can't think who you are - the heat out here has obviously led to memory loss.

[J.A.F.O.]

Ah, the babington wvo burner, I remember it well.

Eh? :confused:

[lsh]

Anyone from 83 AAITC out there? (1978).

Hello "CG" - you big girls blouse! (All well?)
Visited Finningley a couple of years back and got a couple of pictures of the AAITC building, through the wire.
Lots of memories of AAITC, few happy, but struggled through!
lsh

[TheSmiter]

sorry Ish, I'm joining the 91st ITC love fest - Kinloss Chapter

Brilliant days, although the course photo JR gave me doesn't reflect it. Shows a mix of apprehensive hairies and sprogs scowling into the camera with one or two faces crossed out for added interest.

Mick Evans and John Hoath can rest easy knowing they did a pretty good job with us apart from those who fell by the wayside to booze or commissioning!

Never felt the need to strangle chickens (esp in an MS10) but learnt a lot about womanhood from the fair maidens of Doncaster which has stood me in good stead :O these past 30 years.

wishy, good to see you're still around - my spies tell me you re maintaining your standards and have no excuse to fail the RAFFT - good skills buddy :D you've come a long way from the Matchbox factory (little cars for little people!) That first night under the Vulcan wing was fun! Concerned about yr cruel and unusual punishment round the parade square, surely you must be able to claim compensashun for the mental anguish that caused you? It was a laugh for the rest of us though!

Happy days :ok:

[charliegolf]

Hello "CG" - you big girls blouse!

At least i made 'big': my kneepads were at the knee not the ankle! On the upside, you never banged yer ed on the MGB:ok:

I'm ok mate, you?

CG

[snapper41]

snapper41 - I remember visiting the SSA to sign out stuff from you on several occasions, hope you're keeping well.

Certainly am, thanks! Still in - just...!

[FE Hoppy]

Lazy bugger
WB
Is it just me or does Hoppy not appear too industrious in the photos. He carried this trait throughout his time at ISK as I remember .

It's only taken 25 years for someone to spot I did cock all. Though I might have got away with it for life!!

J.A.F.O:

How's it going mate? Might try and get over to see you this summer as things are starting to slack off for the first time in 5 years!

[boebus757]

Just come across this thread and recognise several of the 'players' in it, especially in the pictures of 146AAITC in the Dales (Though can't remember where it was) where I see myself in the group shot some 21 years younger, scary!!
Visited what remains of FYY a couple of years ago to find all the familiar buildings gone though the parking slots in the Parade square, that we spent that first weekend painting, were still visible.
The buildings may be gone but the memories will live on! Ten years have passed since I left, am still in touch with 'Baldric' but have lost touch with the other Eng's, would be good to catch up.

[The Gorilla]

Boe

It wasn't far from Grassington often thought about going out that way for a weekend but I have never been back to that area since then. Some of the pictures particularly of me, were taken in Grassington Village Hall were we were billeted for the weekend.

I along with the other two in the kitchen were OIC's catering. A cushy job that weekend, but we also got lumbered for it when we did the Dales hill stuff and had to cater and sleep in the back of the four tonner! Not much fun then! :)

TG

[boebus757]

TG thanks for the location, not too far from me in the North East, Ahh, the memories of Compo!!

[fixinflyback]

Interesting reading everybodies memories of the AAITC. I was on 45 Course at Topclffe during 72/73 and had many happy memories of the times I shared with the other guys and girls. We had an instructor called Flt Lt Townley (if memory serves me right), he taught us electronics and if you didn't fancy learning about the transmitter chain of the STR18, then we would mention we had seen a steam train passing through Thirsk. That was it, lesson abandoned and off he would go on his favourite subject, Flying Scotsman, Mallard etc. Surprised the guy survived from having a heart attack after one student on our course decided it would be a laugh to clap his hands together when poor old Townley was connecting a scope across the transmitter :D
The course commander was a guy called Ray Brown, who I found was a real decent fellow, ex Victor AEO. I remember doing our trek across the Yorkshire Hills in February with snow all around us. The weather was so bad we had to go to Catterick to pick up an Army radio, so we could check in every couple of hours, weighed a ton, six foot antenna, and we took turns carrying it. I will never forget the sight of Ray Brown appearing over some hill on skis, skiing down to us, throwing us some sweets, telling us he wanted more effort, and then skiing off into the distance. Other memories included Dougie Wheatland and myself dragging the ground power unit upto the Varsity, only to be told by our instructor Tom Blezzard that we might find it easier if we took the brake off (god bless you Tom). I have totally lost track of the loadies that were on our course, but still have contact with a few of the AEOps, but if anybody was around from that era, then it would be great to hear from them. Does anybody have any gen on what Ray Brown did after Topcliffe closed, he used to entertain us at Hag Dike with his guitar playing, perhaps he took up busking????

[lsh]

Hi CG!
one of my favourites was to hold a conversation whilst walking under the tailboom JUST aft of the DME aerial - you either had to duck or ......!

Mick Evans turned up on 33 some years later.
"Eddie East" was the Master.
FS Hoath, as mentioned. Never got to know him, only there 6 weeks!

"There's none so fair as can compare with the boys of 83"

lsh

[diggafile]

Was on 68AAITC time fades the memory but did College of knowledge a few years later and it was easy compared. Any others from around that time.

[davejb]

MALM East -
you'd collapse (gasping) at Hag Dyke, uttering short phrases laden with horror to describe the epic, day long trek through uncharted wastes that came close to wiping your entire course out... and the Flt Cdr would inform you that MALM East had run round the course during the preceding night to check it out, perhaps with a rucksack full of anvils and an eyepatch to make it a bit more challenging....in a little over an hour and a half.

(Why is it, incidentally, that it's always the biggest and most confident individual with the poorest map reading skills who gets to read the map?)

[Dengue_Dude]

Didn't Eddie East go for a job as a Beefeater at the Tower of London?

[baffy boy]

There was an ex Yorkshire Miner Eng Student on our course who really stood out from the crowd as a leader. Always willing to put himself before others and very enertaining without an ego. Probably the only person to do a 15 minute talk on changing tappets, bringing his own car engine into the classroom to use as a prop, oil and all. Even Lazz and Reves lost their cool and cracked up during that particular talk.

Conversly, it was noticeable that one or two other individuals became quiet and self contained on the hills putting very little into the team effort. Miraculously, they always seemed to come out of their shell in a big way when the DS were around watching and when it was their turn to lead. Two I can think of went to cranners and came back as AEO's.

Bidded Out, I wonder if you are speaking about Steve Askey on 119? One of the best blokes anyone could wish to meet. If you are I wouldn't mind following up on the rest of what you said. Even if if it's not the same course it's a bit strange that the one or two guys who put little into the team effort became AEO's. Not a little chip on a shoulder there somewhere is there?

[nick_george]

Hi

Anyone in here on the 139/140 era of AAITC.

Dave Barnes (I am in touch with him), Steve Findlay, Paul Snell, Andy White, Hooper, Mark Sodeau, Gavin Ovenden, Paul Thirkell, Beast formBodmin, Sullivan, Carl Howcroft et al.

Looking through some photos I can see Leigh Robertson, Smith, Bignall, Hooper.

I didn't get past the Technical School and left the Service.

The Staff were Roberts, Fair, Butler, Stennett, McQueen, Trevaskus (Famous!), Cpl Lee of the SSA.

I stumbled on this site by misspelling a google search!

Cheers

Nick

[nick_george]

Ahh Snapper 41 - I recognise your history!

[carlos755]

Hi Nick, Carl Howcroft here in sleepy NZ...transferred to the RNZAF for a while and had a ball. Now with Air NZ and stuck behind a desk as cannot leave the family for weeks on end lazing about in tents in the sandpit.
Where are you in the UK?
Cheers
Carl

[nick_george]

Hi Carl, Yes I remember you, didn't you "Once have a Porsche". I thought you were on a different course than me.

Back then was T' Cumbrian. Met T' Lass from Cheshire and lived just outside Northwich since. Worked in the Nuclear (civil - not buckets of sunshine!) Industry for about 10 years and a self employed I.T. bod for about 7 years.

Nick

[snapper41]

Well hello Nick G! Do PM me - it's been a long time...!

[jete]

Never tell em your name Pike! You never Know who reads this drivel. I remember your course Carl. Then again "sleepy" NZ might suit you. Joke! This is Ralph Lawton,retired in sleepy Wilts. All the best to You and Yours! It still beats the **** out of me!:ok:ugh:

[Zero feet, decending]

This thread has brought back some memories!
I joined the AAITC from 6 weeks at Swinderby and still very wet behind the ears. I cant recall the course number (79 maybe?) but it was just after Easter, '78.
Flight Commander was F/l Br*****n from the Vulcan fleet. An archetypical RAF officer, right town to the 'tash.
F/L Evans was also in residence. Top bloke.
F/S Hoath was also there. His missis worked in the Junior ranks. he later went to that FJ base up the A1 as SWO.

Most of our pain was from Macr Devitt and there was a MALM who did the CS training and had an incredible dry humour and dead-pan delivery.:)

For me, it was 6 weeks that changed me completely and I've never forgotten the lessons. It pushed me to places I'd never been before and rarely since!

For me it was hard work. As for the teccie stuff after, I was just happy to be there! (I was a siggie)

I recall the initiation into the No.2 mess, the formal do's and sneaking my (now) wife into the houses that we'd been allocated having been evicted from the H blocks!

I scraped that course by the skin of my teeth but crashed out from EGDG in 1980. I stayed with the company doing teccie stuff with wiggly amps, 1's and 0's.
Hard work, but was proud to have been part of it.

[c130jbloke]

Hi Nick / Carl,

I was on 138 ( and 139 with you CH :eek:). Dave Sanderson is an Estate Agent in Cornwall and John Stowell was made a Wg Cdr in the new year prom list - they will give it to anyone !!!!

TC:ok:

As for snapper 41, I have you down as a chopped ( unfairly ) ex ALM who went Int and is probably a Gp Capt by now.......

As for Jake McQueen - top bloke ( was never too sure about that dog though ) especially when he told me that the Scottish Eng had tried to stop me from graduateing (sp) on the day of the grad - go figure :}

His first ITC was #139 ,approx may / jun 1987

[Lottery Winner]

Speaking of 149 Cse - wasn't there a wet man who was rumbled for smoking 'tropical cigarettes' and court martialled ... after he got his brevet?

[nick_george]

AAITC 96 Anyone? (not me! just I found it!)

AAITC 96 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sergeantpluck/3859623918/in/set-72157622025927415/)

EDIT:::: This is the year 1996 not AAITC 96 - soz

[snapper41]

C130J bloke - guilty as charged, except I didn't quite make gp capt - one below!

[charliegolf]

I didn't quite make gp capt - one below!

Blimey, If I'd stayed I'd be an AVM by now!

ALM to IntO, who'd of thunk it?:ok:

CG

[c130jbloke]

S41:ok:

Outstanding !

Would love to think of other appropriate phrases from full metal jacket, but :}

I got to 2 below you before I heard the call for the fjords and headed north ( very north )

Take care,


TC

[QTRZulu]

LW,

You are correct there was a wet man that was bubbled while he was in main school. I think his name was Pete Mathews, but its been a long time since I was on 149 so that could be wrong.

I do remember he was from Cardiff and had previously been binned from IOT as he broke his leg/ankle, and when he rejoined the RAF as NCA conveniently forgot to mention the fact he had been 'in' as a trainee rodney before:confused:

[snapper41]

C130JB - check your pms!

[lastmanstanding]

Nick that post refers to date ie 1996 and not ITC 96

Think the pic would have been black and white or even sepia :ok:

[Dengue_Dude]

Very cheeky LMS! You're on very dangerous ground if you pursue this line . . .

I was 50 Course and there are colleagues even earlier - beware the Grey Ghosts!

[nick_george]

Sorry LMS - I have edited the post to "1996"! Like the idea of sepia for AAITC96!!

[nick_george]

Hi


I have had a go at scanning some Pics from AAITC 139/140


http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/icteqphoto/_RAFBuddies# (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/icteqphoto/_RAFBuddies#)

I have worked out quite a few of the names - any suggestions?

Nick

[lastmanstanding]

DD

Were they not painted in your day?

Meant no offence old chap. Know you've still lots of lead in the old pencil;)

LMS

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Hi


I have had a go at scanning some Pics from AAITC 139/140


http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/icteqphoto/_RAFBuddies# (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/icteqphoto/_RAFBuddies#)

I have worked out quite a few of the names - any suggestions?

Nick

Still good friends with the young man posing in the cricket picture :ok:

[WASALOADIE]

Konfused, Wishywashy and Smiter. Sounds like you were on my second course. I loved it so much I just had to go round again (hadnt quite attained SNCO qualities after performing on the stage with an exotic dancer at the Rugby club caberet). The only lead I was given was the first day for the TACEVAL and making sure you were all breifed on the SUnday night. Remember FS "Oaf" well, Mick Evans crooked smile and Derek Devitt. Al Pinnington was my first Flt Cdr on 90 cse. It seemed hard at the time but I learned a lot and only remember the good bits.

Regards AP

[J.A.F.O.]

Had the chance to look round what is left of Finningley today. There's not a great deal but I was glad to see that the gym had gone, not so pleased that the No2 Mess was no more.

There are a few bits and pieces left but the ITC block, the rugby club and gatehouse have all gone. Though the area where they stood is now home to the Flying Start Day Nursery so, perhaps, not too much has changed.

Happy days.

[Bengerman]

After leaving Finningley the next time I bumped into "Oaf" was when he was escorting Harry Secombe around ASI. They rolled into the Exiles Club, drunk as monkeys, and drank some more.
I believe it was "Oaf"'s first station as SWO.

[ExTridriver]

Great photos by Wessex boy on page 6.

I took a drive across to Wharfedale the other week and walked up Buckton Pike and across to Hag Dike. I still can believe I and a bunch of young lads hauled pine poles and a hernia box to the top! :}

Any ideas from the guys on Cse 146 where we spent the weekend in the Dales building a retaining wall?

ETD

[12in95]

I got AAITC as my first command posting during its earlier days at FYY. I am happy to say that most of the staff at that time (at least 3 of whom have been named here) were pretty good at the job. I modelled my approach on what I had gone through as a direct entry officer cadet at South Cerney. Both courses sought to identify the strengths and, perhaps most importantly for the service, the weaknesses in the characters of the applicants, and to develop resilience in the students. In general, it seems to me that both courses achieved their aims. An important aspect of both courses is that you could always walk away from it. That so few did says a lot for the motivation of those accepted as aircrew recruits at whatever trade. Talking about walking away, I am still bemused by the ATC cadet warrant officer who went through all the trials and tests to get to South Cerney and, after one night in a barrack block, decided that an air force career was not for him!
Sadly, that was all of 52 years ago.
Here's to those aircrew serving right now, whatever the process now is to get there. (And only today saw a pair of Hercs at low level over Devon; first sighting for ages).

12in 95:D

[Sandy Parts]

No ITC block left? That must have been THE cleanest, shiniest block in NATO. Scrubbed and polished every night for decades. We did try covertly painting up some of the copper pipework around the sinks to try and reduce the brasso loading but when we returned from one of the camps, it was back to (now grotty) copper :{ Least we can laugh about it now. Cheers to all fellow ex-inmates :ok:

[The Old Fat One]

RAF Finningley officially closed sometime in January 1996. I was SDO on New Years Eve 1995 (as a punitive punishment would you believe - it was only ever the depth...). Although I cannot be 100% certain, I am fairly sure I was the last rearcrew chap to step foot in the old ITC building.

There were only a handful of coppers, some maintenance civvies and myself left to keep watch - everyone else had long since departed - the ITC had gone to Cranwell several months previously.

Me and the plods were sitting round sneaking a few tinnies, when I got the urge to take the keys, wander across the parade square and look round the place. It was pretty damn emotional - I sat down at the same desk I had been at in October 1975 and the memories were pretty intense.

I was very proud to have been part of it all - still am.

[INT_QRU]

I graduated from ITC at Finningley thirty one years ago on 119 course and last week found myself at Cranwell on an ATC course. Popped over to the ITC building to say hello. There had been a grad on that day so everyone had thinned out. Chatted to a couple of the Rock DI staff and was glad to hear that the standards are pretty much the same, plenty of beasting still going on it seems!

It was 262 course that graduated - makes me feel old...

Well done to all those that went through the ITC, wherever it was and emerged the other side still smiling.

Cheers
rich

[Could be the last?]

It is interesting that a lot of the Stn Name Boards, Stn Cdrs prize winners etc are on display at Elvington. And just as important, there is also an Air Gunners display in the same Nissan hut. I think I even recognised a couple of the guys on the photographs, as they regularly frequented the mess on an evening.:D

[biddedout]

Baffy_Boy
Quote:- Bidded Out, I wonder if you are speaking about Steve Askey on 119? One of the best blokes anyone could wish to meet. If you are I wouldn't mind following up on the rest of what you said. Even if if it's not the same course it's a bit strange that the one or two guys who put little into the team effort became AEO's. Not a little chip on a shoulder there somewhere is there?

Sorry, I haven't looked on her for a while. First question - Yes and I agree, hope he is doing well. Second question. I understand what you are saying but no, I decided to leave and do other things early on and never applied. The comment only applied to a couple of "Grey Men" who seemed to not stand out on the Squadron but played the game and ticked the boxes. Meanwhile, it was a delight to see a significant number of extremely talented NCO Aircrew try for Cranwell and make it through.

On another unrelated point. Despite adventures in Otterburn and picnics in the Dales seeming to be only a year or two ago, those of us on 120 course and beyond are now in our fifties or sixties. I wonder how many of us thought that because we were on a "non pensionable engagement", we werent entitled to a pension? I had a pleasant surprise when I wrote to MOD pensions just on the off chance and found that for my 8 years service as a pie eater , I do in fact have a modest pension and a lump sum payment at age 60. :). Might be worth looking into if you haven't already.

[charliegolf]

for my 8 years service as a pie eater , I do in fact have a modest pension and a lump sum payment at age 60. . Might be worth looking into if you haven't already.

I only found out the very same thing from a then regular Ppruner and ex airman aircrew bloke. TVM Airborne Aircrew!:ok:

CG (Bad knee jib-out of 91 cse, did 93 cse and finished my RAF time in the GST HSO role.)

[Janda]

Some of you guys that feel old having been on circa 100 course make me feel even older. I was on 36/38 AEOp course back in the very early 70's (got a recourse after 12 weeks of main course). Of course not at Finningley but Topcliffe. My only experience's of Finningley was for 10 days when the Royal Review took place in 1977 (the Nimrod crew I was on actually was introduced to Her Majesty), an AE Refresher course in 1981 and in the mid 80's when the Shack I was on had to divert with engine problems. Got invited into the Number 2 Mess and had a good night.

My memories of ITC are mixed but although stressful I really enjoyed the main course. Cannot believe that was 44 years ago. :ouch:

[Alcazares48]

Completely forgotten most of AAITC, apart from press ups in the pub car park at Kettlewell while the staff sat and supped their pints.
The only names I remember are Al Pinnington and FS Hoath, I could not even remember my course number, but then I was one of the older ones. T' was 90, I had to dig out old paperwork to find that out.

[Alcazares48]

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/alcazares48/90669436-8be8-44e3-b5e3-102c07a8dbff_zpsnrfcuv55.jpg

[papajuliet]

This might stir a few memories....
From the station magazine - "Finningley Observer" Sept. 1986 - a letter from "our left seat correspondent"
Dear Mum
It has happened, I have been flying in a jetstream. It was really grate and has inspired me kwite a bit. I;m not shure wot actually wnet on Kos I had my hed in a bloo bag for most of the time. The hood in the other seat kept larfing at my discomfort and sed it wood mayk me a better man. He stopt larfing wen I dropped the bag. The hood teeched me sumthink to do with his airobik display. I did get one chance to hold the control kollum but I koodent do much kos the hood woodent let go of his kollom. He dus look very pale sumtimes. He says he will let go of his kollom wen I improov. Wen we got back on the ground I got a telling orf. The hood sed i'd hav to do better next time. He sed I lakt awareness but woodent tell me wot that was.
Till next time muther
your ever luving sun
MOLESWORTH

[Axel-Flo]

Despite the cunning disguise as some sort of 70s porn star...is the bloke on the right of the picture "The Black Flash"..... Formerly of the secret South Wales Air Base?:ok:

[charliegolf]

Is that bloke on the right....?

Mark Tait if I'm not mistaken.

[WASALOADIE]

L=R, Taff Bence, (Not sure), Roy Davey, John Reid, Mark Tait. I should have been there but was a glutton for punishment, so did 91 Course as well.

[RAFAT]

Ex-163 member here (April 1991), VS'd halfway up a hill somewhere in the Dales after a big :yuk::yuk::yuk: attack! I wanted AE but was given AEOp and the thought of so many hours in the back of a Nimrod wasn't a big enough carrot to get me to the end of the course. Just my luck that my fellow 163 mates reported back that the course got a lot easier after that particular hill!

Some good memories though and I still have my course picture on my office wall.